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Strobe posted:It's really nice on Assault Plasma Incinerators, too. Putting 20 shots on someone that thought they were safe before the plasma starts flying is great. The first time you get to say "my Hellblasters advance... 14 inches" and then start shooting is great. So are the Assault options best choices for Primaris in general, due to their transport slots being both heavily limited and best saved for something like the Aggressor-Apothecary-Grav Captain Surprise? Losing strength on the main Primaris source of anti-armor sucks, but 6 is enough to mulch a lot of units and taking some las-Razorbacks or Predators seems like it'd quickly make up the difference.
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Oct 31, 2017 04:50
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Assuming that my Commissar, call him Leon Trotsky, gets into combat with Krom Dragongaze, how many Frost Axe attacks would be needed to kill him?
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Oct 31, 2017 04:56
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The trouble with this theoryhammer and mathhammer for and against biglies is that it all depends on context. One side lists some guns that can kill biglies as well as squatlies, the other side counters by saying oh well those guns aren't all that common and i've never seen them on the table and heres some tons of math to prove how resilient biglies are to that one gun despite that squatlies would be identical against it for less points thus proving your point for you BLA BLA BLA. What it comes down to is circumstance. The point I'm making is that tournament winning lists don't feature biglies, they feature tacspam. After all, "There are no absolute rules of conduct, either in peace or war. Everything depends on circumstances." You can't mathhammer this stuff, only look at results. What do you think on this, chutche2?
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Oct 31, 2017 04:57
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Or just take lascannon devastators I tried it for funsies for a while but going primaris-only is pretty stupid if you want a list that does things. Predators are a lot more durable than the devastators though. If you want to forge a narrative go ahead, but if you're having discussions about what options are better then you have to accept you need to diversify. I still think bolt rifle intercessors are great for just hanging out in or near your deployment zone taking shots. After trying them in a few games though I always run my hellblasters as assault, a bunch of S6 plasma shots is just as good as S7 most of the time. I use my hellblasters to hang out exactly 24 inches from what I want to light up, while intercessors either objective camp or just trundle up the board moving 6 and shooting at stuff alongside my dreadnought. Either they take hits and my dreadnought doesn't, or the dreadnought takes hits and the intercessors only have small arms shot at them. I use small tac marine squads in razorbacks or rhinos for high speed force projection, either with a flamer and combi flamer, or melta and combi melta.
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Oct 31, 2017 05:01
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Suggestion: get what you think looks cool and eff the haters.
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Oct 31, 2017 05:03
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The Sex Cannon posted:come to the dark side and play guard Don't tempt me with your unclean ways! By the time I had an army painted, 9th ed would be out and something else would be top dog.
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Oct 31, 2017 05:04
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Aggressors, paradoxically, are pretty good at footslogging. White Scars Aggressors are moving 8-13" per turn, and they have Relentless Advance so there's not even a gunnery penalty for it. There's literally no reason not to advance with them if you're not already in range. The way the math works out, the Assault versions of weapons are better for Primaris at 15" or greater. Pretty much universally. Auto Bolt Rifles more than overcome the AP differential with double shots, and Assault Plasma Incinerators really overcome the S differential with it. In a pinch you can still supercharge and not advance, and if you're over 15" away with a reroll bubble (White Scars what up, Captain just moved 10+" to provide it on a bad roll) you're going to kill a lot more than a squad of Hellblasters firing at normal rate of fire. Assuming a 10 man squad, T7 and Sv 3+ target, with a reroll 1s to hit bubble... 15.56 hits (0.56 die to explosions), 7.78 wounds, no saves, 15.56 damage. Without overcharging: 15.56 hits, 5.19 wounds, no saves, 5.19 damage. Against a normal Plasma Incinerator (call it 20" away, still with rerolls) 7.78 hits (0.28 die), 5.19 wounds, no saves, 10.37 damage. And without overcharging: 7.78 hits, 3.89 wounds, no saves, 7.78 damage. They're better by a significant margin and you can realistically expect to murder a Predator in one go at 24" away.
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Oct 31, 2017 05:04
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chutche2 posted:Or just take lascannon devastators See, this is good. Using real experience to draw conclusions from. And this: Strobe posted:Aggressors, paradoxically, are pretty good at footslogging. White Scars Aggressors are moving 8-13" per turn, and they have Relentless Advance so there's not even a gunnery penalty for it. There's literally no reason not to advance with them if you're not already in range. This is bad, this is mathhammer. Bad! Bad math hammer! After all, If we had had more time for discussion we should probably have made a great many more mistakes. What say you, Chutche two?
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Oct 31, 2017 05:05
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Der Waffle Mous posted:Suggestion: get what you think looks cool and eff the haters. In general, Aggressors feel like paradoxes. They're useful for footslogging, and very effective when deployed in ambush . . . somehow. Yeah. I want to use Biglys because they look cool and back them up with vehicles that make sense, just like I want to make Nidstealer Soup so a bunch of crazy space miners can be lead into battle by their star gods. Speaking of, would Genestealer Cult units break squad cohesion? I know they don't get to benefit from the keyword, but they're still Tyranid units. The Bee fucked around with this message at 05:12 on Oct 31, 2017 |
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Oct 31, 2017 05:08
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It's mathhammer backing up all the experiences I've had on the table where Assault Hellblasters have punched well above their weight, but I guess comparing two weapons on the same model against similar targets is bad because...? 
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Oct 31, 2017 05:09
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Assault Plasma Incinerators are better, you'd be a fool to think otherwise.
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Oct 31, 2017 05:11
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lol if you ain't taking nothing but units of 30 devilgaunts and ways of deepstriking them for the 180 shots per unit.
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Oct 31, 2017 05:11
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@chutche2 if Trotsky was a space marine captain what special rules would he have? How many points would he cost? Please explain your reasoning.
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Oct 31, 2017 05:45
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Hamshot posted:The trouble with this theoryhammer and mathhammer for and against biglies is that it all depends on context. One side lists some guns that can kill biglies as well as squatlies, the other side counters by saying oh well those guns aren't all that common and i've never seen them on the table and heres some tons of math to prove how resilient biglies are to that one gun despite that squatlies would be identical against it for less points thus proving your point for you BLA BLA BLA. I definitely agree with you that context is really important for these conversations. The critical thing is that whichever unit you pick is filling the role that you expect them to in your listbuilding. Intercessors and Tac Marines fundamentally don't fill the same role- for a mechanized list tacs will be the better option while in a purely defensive role you may get more use out of those Intercessors. Again, depending on context. When it comes down to it Tacs are probably better overall but only because they can actually take affordable transports. If GW would just give them the ability to get in a Rhino or a sanely priced transport of their own I really think you'd see them in tournament lists. As it stands they're really crippled by the lack of mobility, though fortunately this can be somewhat mitigated by taking the assault bolters.
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Oct 31, 2017 05:45
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I might get the biglies at some point, but I much prefer the squatters. I got my cataphractii in the mail a couple hours ago and put the sergeant together and man I love the look.
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Oct 31, 2017 06:17
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5kWYgyhbWc There's a youtube battle reporter that moved into the area and has been doing pretty frequent batreps here Here's a video of him getting his rear end annihilated by cadian leman russes. Cadians are so loving good. He plays Dark Angels and GSC. I watched his GSC at the tournament last weekend, he ended up fighting tyranids in two rounds and got wrecked both times, once by a genestealer horde and the second time by a bunch of exocrines. chutche2 fucked around with this message at 06:22 on Oct 31, 2017 |
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Oct 31, 2017 06:18
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If only he had more heavy bolters.
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Oct 31, 2017 06:26
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Munchables posted:I might get the biglies at some point, but I much prefer the squatters. You should really see if you can grab like a single intercessor or something to try painting. It's really hard to go back once you do though- the proportions just make so much more sense.
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Oct 31, 2017 06:30
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Pendent posted:You should really see if you can grab like a single intercessor or something to try painting. It's really hard to go back once you do though- the proportions just make so much more sense. I bought the three pack for Beer's chapter-generator challenge thread, and they're nice models, but the squatmarines have my heart
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Oct 31, 2017 06:32
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Munchables posted:I bought the three pack for Beer's chapter-generator challenge thread, and they're nice models, but the squatmarines have my heart Fair enough. There is definitely a reason the old marine range has been their biggest seller. The important thing in this hobby is always to work on stuff you like the look of. Rules come and go but cool models stick around.
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Oct 31, 2017 06:38
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There's a new video of Duncan constructing a Spartan tank. The beginning where he lists the supplies needed is comically long.
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Oct 31, 2017 06:51
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bonds0097 posted:The gamemat.eu stuff is great. I have the pre-painted gothic ruins stuff and I love it. Very sturdy, good paintjob, has footprints to make area cover easy to rule on. The mats are great too and come in a nice case for transport, I got the one with the cool chaos symbol in the middle and I like it. Man, this stuff looks good for the price. I really want that Highlands set of rocks to go with my Secret Weapon bases.
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Oct 31, 2017 08:01
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Der Waffle Mous posted:Suggestion: get what you think looks cool and eff the haters. Wisdom. This was all sparked by a new player. He or she is not going to care. There’s not really any trap units as there were in past editions. Get Primaris, or get some DeathWatch. All lovely, all new models. There’s some awesome DeathWatch artwork as well. Get what pumps you up, whatever makes you excited. Do you like running head first into the enemy and smashing into them with revving chainsaws? Do you imagine your biker dudes sallying forth, smog pouring from their ancient engines, bolters blazing and churning up the path ahead of them? Do you want to see an entombed noble warrior, roused from his long sleep, to help his chapter in his darkest hour, and maybe allowing him to atone in his mind for his greatest failure? Get what you want, assemble it, paint it, play it. Rule of cool my friends, rule of cool. Also, get some cool friends to play with. That is the most important thing. Sure they can bring a baneblade, but you’ll know in advance, and you can joke with them over chat and have banter. Hopefully you live in God’s own country, and not some silly country where the Ham/square mile ratio is small. Cool models. Cool friends. Can’t lose. Except when you do. But hopefully it’s just a setback in a long campaign.
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Oct 31, 2017 08:55
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Just need to say that I'm really loving excited about the Tyranid Codex. From the leaka so far, I'll be able to play a variety of lists and styles. I love that. My two Exocrines might be worthwhile to field again, and I'll have to pick up a couple Carnifexes and a landing spore. Good times.
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Oct 31, 2017 10:03
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After the last few codexes, it's really blowing my mind that synapse is a net positive now, not a negative. There's still some minor issues with instinctive behaviour, but Synapse coverage itself is super easy now, and has a major upside attached.
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Oct 31, 2017 10:08
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Attestant posted:After the last few codexes, it's really blowing my mind that synapse is a net positive now, not a negative. There's still some minor issues with instinctive behaviour, but Synapse coverage itself is super easy now, and has a major upside attached. It is really is odd after decades to not have to care about the bubble, at least not as much. Shadow in the Warp being hugely extended is pretty great too.
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Oct 31, 2017 11:40
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PierreTheMime posted:It is really is odd after decades to not have to care about the bubble, at least not as much. Shadow in the Warp being hugely extended is pretty great too. Yeah, I always thought the rule was a bit of a waste before; by the time SitW did anything you were probably in range to kill the psyker anyway. Letting it cover against Smite range is a big improvement. I need to see the exact rule wording to know if this is going to work, but I had an idea for spore mines: 1) Drop max units of spore mines / mucolids during deployment 12" from enemy 2) Move 3+D6" toward enemy in your first turn 3) Use Metabolic Movement strat to move another 3+D6" 4) If you rolled an average of 2" or more on your two advance rolls you're now within range to explode in the charge phase. The charge restriction on Metabolic Movement doesn't matter at all. There's also a stratagem to generate 2 free spore mine units during deployment.
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Oct 31, 2017 11:46
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Finished this guy just in time for the new codex. Hopefully deathleapers new rules will be good. Mini is 'Deathlurker' from Hydracast.
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Oct 31, 2017 11:51
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Arson Fire posted:Finished this guy just in time for the new codex. Hopefully deathleapers new rules will be good. Rules probably won't change, which doesn't matter since deathleaper is good already. Taking the salamander or the cover traits are going to boost his quite a bit.
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Oct 31, 2017 12:05
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Arson Fire posted:Finished this guy just in time for the new codex. Hopefully deathleapers new rules will be good. His main rules didn't change, but he has some useful stratagems. One to gain D3 CP back when he kills a character, another to fall back without penalty, and the old pheremone trail to deep strike an infantry unit nearby.
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Oct 31, 2017 12:30
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Am I right in reading that the difference between a plasma incinerator and the assault version is a scope?
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Oct 31, 2017 12:44
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:Am I right in reading that the difference between a plasma incinerator and the assault version is a scope? Am I right in not being able to tell, even after you've said this, and even when I can see the difference, I can't tell which is which. Does this mean the Dark Imperium mans have Assault Incinerators?
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Oct 31, 2017 13:19
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I'm slowly building up my army (by which I mean I already have a hoard of poo poo that I need to assemble still), and since I can't do anything linearly, ever, I'm starting to lose track of what configurations I still want/need to build. Is there a more convenient way of keeping track of things than building my own spreadsheet? I know about BattleScribe, but that seems like it's only able to help with actual list building, not keeping inventory.
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Oct 31, 2017 13:31
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Oh man those double-shoot and +1 wound strats are going to be an amazing alpha strike. It will basically batch delete 1-2 units with almost nothing to stop it. 30 devourers put out 70 wounds on <T5. Ugh gotta go dig up my bitz and/or get more gants.
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Oct 31, 2017 13:37
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PierreTheMime posted:Oh man those double-shoot and +1 wound strats are going to be an amazing alpha strike. It will basically batch delete 1-2 units with almost nothing to stop it. 30 devourers put out 70 wounds on <T5. I'm pretty excited about dropping a full brood of shockcannon hive guard with a trygon and shooting twice. That's 8-10 mortal wounds on average. In your face, Pask. Between that and the virtually-guaranteed Spore Mine strat I'm gonna be straight up deleting so many punisher cannons xtothez fucked around with this message at 13:48 on Oct 31, 2017 |
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Oct 31, 2017 13:44
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We're obviously going to have to see how things pan out once we actually see the codex but I'm going to laugh my rear end off if nids end up being a Guard tier army. What we're seeing so far sound incredibly strong, especially all the mortal wounds they can put out.
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Oct 31, 2017 13:58
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Well y'all melted down for me, all right. The main reason I promoted primaris is because of the range evolving from here. But munchables likes it classic. Cool.
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Oct 31, 2017 14:03
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Pendent posted:We're obviously going to have to see how things pan out once we actually see the codex but I'm going to laugh my rear end off if nids end up being a Guard tier army. What we're seeing so far sound incredibly strong, especially all the mortal wounds they can put out. So far 8th seems heavily based on options and how you can leverage them. That's really good for armies with lots of options and lots of form of leverage, and Tyranids seem like shoe-ins for that. Good stratagems and good numbers to take advantage of those stratagems. A pair of 3 CP detachments, one for Jorm ambush+shooting and the other for Behemoth smashing and crashing, seems like it could be a recipe for a really fun time. Don't have to worry about Jorm's no advance or charge penalty if you have another detachment to cover your termie ambushes and Dakkafex walls, after all.
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Oct 31, 2017 14:09
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Pendent posted:We're obviously going to have to see how things pan out once we actually see the codex but I'm going to laugh my rear end off if nids end up being a Guard tier army. What we're seeing so far sound incredibly strong, especially all the mortal wounds they can put out. Nids being good for the first time since Nidzilla was briefly viable in 4th will be a sight to see.
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Oct 31, 2017 14:10
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Shockeh posted:Am I right in not being able to tell, even after you've said this, and even when I can see the difference, I can't tell which is which. The DI dudes are supposed to be Rapid Fire. Unlike all the hoses for the heavy ones though, the assault and rapid fire ones seem hard to tell apart aside from the "targeting arrays", I guess that means you can just d code which ones they are whenever.
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Oct 31, 2017 14:18
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