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If you took away PJW's twitter account he might actually die.
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Oct 31, 2017 01:18
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OwlFancier posted:If you took away PJW's twitter account he might actually die. How would we even find out in that case?
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Oct 31, 2017 01:26
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FantasticExtrusion posted:The fact that you don't know what I'm talking about proves my point. They stopped calling people chimpanzees and got serious. FantasticExtrusion posted:Now they're posting lists of people's names (irl) and you don't know where they're meeting. FantasticExtrusion posted:When you are using the victim card as your main argument, yes it does. And you're really weirdly defensive about how effective all three of those are. These fuckers have been "serious" since GamerGate, they've been posting kill lists since Gamergate, and they've been playing the victim card since Gamergate. None of this poo poo is new, and only some of it is technically "working," but every last one of them is making GBS threads-themselves terrified of being called on to actually do anything. It used to be that they were up against literal women and literal children. Now they've seen their enemy, and it's a strong-willed, fury-eyed human in a black hoodie, who is not afraid to strike first. And they know that if they are made an example of, the internet will rally around the attacker. Oh, there'll be some controversy, some ideological purity whining, but that won't matter, not really- the puncher will not be a villain, they'll be an anti-hero standing up to a literal, actual, bona-fide nazi.
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Oct 31, 2017 06:46
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Dispatch from Brazil: Local middle-class kid (14) in Goiania went to school, pulled out a gun he filched from his parents, and opened fire, killing two other kids and wounding others. Going through his skype talks with friends, police found a festival of alt-right dross. He used 'Adolf' as handle in several accounts, bitched to his friends about their communist parents because he couldn't say racist stuff at their homes, argued at length about how the holocaust was a hoax, went on about heroes like Hitler, Pinochet, future brazilian dictator Jair Bolsonaro....and gushed endlessly, sloppily about Pewdiepie. This will get a lot worse before it gets better.
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Oct 31, 2017 07:40
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Could you not get up in the morning and personally attack me for once. The line by line of everything I have to say is childish and one-sided. Come on. You can disagree without being a huge douche and implying I am some kind of concern troll Nazi sympathizer. Having recently enough moved from Alabama to WA I have some perspective you might not have. You might not live in a place where you get heckled for being white. They might. Just calling them Nazis and sweeping them under the rug doesn't do anything towards helping us understand the situation or change it. Those guys have unique motivations for their dickery. FantasticExtrusion fucked around with this message at 14:19 on Oct 31, 2017 |
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Oct 31, 2017 14:12
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PS I meant the physical list they actually handed out last week in public, and it wasn't a kill list, but it is a concerning precedent. That event is tangibly more worrisome than "kill lists" posted by neckbeards on the internet from their basements. Seems like some people here just want to talk poo poo and it's like I get it, that's fun, but you could at least be informed of relevant current events before calling me a Nazi just for paying attention to what's actually happening. http://crosscut.com/2017/10/burien-group-undocumented-immigrants-names-address-identification/ That was just the fastest link I found, this has made me late so not being called a Nazi would be dope. FantasticExtrusion fucked around with this message at 14:26 on Oct 31, 2017 |
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Oct 31, 2017 14:22
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FantasticExtrusion posted:You might not live in a place where you get heckled for being white. They might. 
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Oct 31, 2017 14:33
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FantasticExtrusion posted:. Lol, gently caress off.
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Oct 31, 2017 14:36
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Getting beat up for being the white kid in school is the same as getting shot to death by police or given 25 years for a bag of weed at 16. Got it.
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Oct 31, 2017 14:38
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FantasticExtrusion posted:PS I meant the physical list they actually handed out last week in public, and it wasn't a kill list, but it is a concerning precedent. Not being called a Nazi is easy: Stop thinking like a Nazi, stop acting like a Nazi, stop defending Nazis, stop being a willing idiot for Nazi propaganda.
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Oct 31, 2017 14:55
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Macrame_God posted:I'm curious, was there this much bitching about killing white supremacists I thought I was killing liberals in all the Bioshock games  Oh wait same thing most of the time. e: Is there a mod that makes all the splicers look like Ayn Rand? ee: Modification, that is. Not moderator. 3D Megadoodoo fucked around with this message at 15:21 on Oct 31, 2017 |
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Oct 31, 2017 15:16
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Yeah the "stop calling your opponents Nazis" argument would go over easier if our opponents weren't wearing swastikas and trying to have honest debates about the Jewish Question.
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Oct 31, 2017 15:17
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FantasticExtrusion posted:You might not live in a place where you get heckled for being white. haha you dumb cracker.
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Oct 31, 2017 15:18
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business hammocks posted:Getting beat up for being the white kid in school is the same as getting shot to death by police or given 25 years for a bag of weed at 16. Got it. *Note: bag of weed may or may not actually exist
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Oct 31, 2017 15:21
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FantasticExtrusion posted:You might not live in a place where you get heckled for being white. They might. Where in Alabama are you heckled for being white?
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Oct 31, 2017 16:39
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This morning I told my 6 year old that I heard a report on the radio that suggested children who get too much screen time with tablets, video games, that sort of thing may have a stunted imaginations. She responded, "I think they're lying". I fear I might be raising an internet skeptic.
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Oct 31, 2017 16:40
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I read a report in the newspaper that the proliferation of wireless sets and radio stations will leave a whole generation of youth illiterate.
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Oct 31, 2017 16:57
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FantasticExtrusion posted:You might not live in a place where you get heckled for being white. They might. Just calling them Nazis and sweeping them under the rug doesn't do anything towards helping us understand the situation or change it. Just wanted to get in on this and say lol you're a loving idiot. They're being called nazis because they're nazis, bald-faced nazis still exist. This was THREE DAYS AGO.  https://twitter.com/natalie_allison/status/924296540096749573 https://twitter.com/natalie_allison/status/924320121639915520 https://twitter.com/natalie_allison/status/924328031229042688 But I mean I guess all of this could just be that ole ~irony~ and ~trolling~ the little scamps. Yardbomb fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Oct 31, 2017 |
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Oct 31, 2017 19:04
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Bart having narrowly escaped the shelbyville locals: this whole thing is just as stupid as that innocent man who looks like a nazi holding a sign saying murder all jews... Wait! Theres a nazi behind that man!
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Oct 31, 2017 19:33
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So Contra posted a thread on twitter about how she thinks people on the left shouldn't refuse to engage with "problematic" individuals, and it seems to be getting mixed reactions: https://twitter.com/contrapoints/status/925397325232648193 This is probably a response to the conversation on Twitter the other day about a piece about her written by a TERF (apparently, I'm not familiar with them), and people's concerns about "signal-boosting" their views.
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Oct 31, 2017 19:42
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I mean yeah I'm going to get upset when you call me a Nazi. I would be more concerned if I wasn't. I just wish you could stop attacking the speaker. You can disagree. I am not Literally Hitler. Popping zits only makes them go away in the short term. We didn't improve anything, we just spread it around so it's hidden better. So what, you ban the racists, steal their soap box except... we didn't. They're right there. It wasn't meaningfully effective, it was measurably counterproductive. Did you know "r/uncensorednews" is their go-to hiding place now? I liked it better when they hid in the hole with a sign over it that said "r/OBVIOUSRACISTS." R/uncensorednews normalizes racism. At least it did, until the dumber Nazis figured it out and jumped in. R/coontown was so obviously disgusting it showed racism's true face in all its nasty inglory. By driving them "underground" we escalate the situation in their eyes. They need to fight to survive now; which means more racist effort-posts about crime statistics and fewer simple outright explitives. While you and I might not differentiate, we need to, because it's the racist effort-posts that win people like this over. Those write-ups are meaningfully more attractive to people grasping to justify their racism. Those people may not look up those write-ups themselves. People who will be won over by that ideology aren't critical thinkers in my experience. I don't disagree with their decision to ban those "communities." I don't have a solution, but I can tell you that banning these guys' as a group forum does make the situation worse by giving them another perceived racial injustice to wave as a banner. We need to prove these guys wrong when they make structured but misleading propaganda. Mostly now you just see a declaration that they're wrong; with the assumption that everybody knows why. The problem is these dudes in Charlottesville need to have it explained to them WHY those statues are racist, because they were raised in an environment of propaganda. Even if you don't win that racist person over: the present breakdown of why they're wrong following them everywhere they're wrong shits on their propaganda. Knee jerk reactions fit into it.
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Oct 31, 2017 19:45
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TERF is a word that means "Someone who hates transpeople and is also a woman" And as far as I'm concerned you are under no more obligation to acknowledge their idiocy than you are some fundamentalist pillock ranting about how being gay is a sin. It's no more credible. FantasticExtrusion posted:R/uncensorednews normalizes racism. At least it did, until the dumber Nazis figured it out and jumped in. "A place where racism is normal normalizes racism less than a place where it has to be coded." Words, do you understand them? OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Oct 31, 2017 |
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Oct 31, 2017 19:45
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personally i just don't see the point in trying to have deep or meaningful conversations with people who inhabit a different reality and make that part of their identity
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Oct 31, 2017 19:46
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aware of dog posted:So Contra posted a thread on twitter about how she thinks people on the left shouldn't refuse to engage with "problematic" individuals, and it seems to be getting mixed reactions: Do you have a link? Most TERFs argue in bad faith because they know that their positions are epistemologically indefensible, but Contra knows epistemology.
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Oct 31, 2017 19:57
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boner confessor posted:Personally I just don't see the point in trying to have deep or meaningful conversations with people who inhabit a different reality and make that part of their identity Yeah basically. It's not some 'taboo' it's just fruitless with vast piles of evidence to back that up, because I and people like me have undoubtedly collectively tried millions of times and guess how many ever turned out good. Also this reply thread is about how I feel as well, feels like a more rare bad take from Contra honestly. https://twitter.com/RoryWalkerEsq/status/925408695575564289 Yardbomb fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Oct 31, 2017 |
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Oct 31, 2017 20:03
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business hammocks posted:Do you have a link? Most TERFs argue in bad faith because they know that their positions are epistemologically indefensible, but Contra knows epistemology. I believe this was the one. It's quite positive about Contra, but there was consternation over, seemingly, her engaging with the author, even if the author's TERFy views aren't present in the article itself.
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Oct 31, 2017 20:08
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Yardbomb posted:Just wanted to get in on this and say lol you're a loving idiot. They're being called nazis because they're nazis, bald-faced nazis still exist. This was THREE DAYS AGO. I mean what the are YOU doing posting pictures of white supremacists and saying that I suggested they don't exist? SA, I literally just did not say that. Maybe someone else did and you got confused. I did not suggest they were trolls, I did not suggest they were a triviality to be ignored. The "this is what you said (it's how I interpreted it)" needs to STOP. You don't sweep something under the rug that doesn't exist, doing so doesn't get rid of it. I cannot just let you lie about me unchallenged. I reread my posts. I didn't deserve this bullshit. I never said that. FantasticExtrusion fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Oct 31, 2017 |
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Oct 31, 2017 20:14
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You hear that SA?????? I will not be CRUCIFIED by the likes of you!!!!
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Oct 31, 2017 20:16
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I mean you do keep saying some real daft poo poo.
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Oct 31, 2017 20:17
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You're literally just going to say I said something I didn't say and move forward with that. You don't at all see how if you read from where I joined this conversation it looks bad?
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Oct 31, 2017 20:18
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FantasticExtrusion posted:By driving them "underground" we escalate the situation in their eyes. They need to fight to survive now; which means more racist effort-posts about crime statistics and fewer simple outright explitives. Oh no, now the people who have been screaming about "White genocide" for literal years might feel like they're fighting to survive! FantasticExtrusion posted:The problem is these dudes in Charlottesville need to have it explained to them WHY those statues are racist, because they were raised in an environment of propaganda. Do you shout the explanation at them as they drive through the crowd, or do you try to guess which car they'll use and leave a little flyer on the windshield?
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Oct 31, 2017 20:18
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What the gently caress is this garbage?
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Oct 31, 2017 20:19
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If these "ironic trolls" actually used Kekistan stuff to troll the Nazis rather than troll the left for being worried about Nazis, these alt-right fucks wouldn't last 2 months.
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Oct 31, 2017 20:19
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FantasticExtrusion posted:What the gently caress is this garbage? The garbage is your posting e: to be less flippant, you're way too focused on trying to reason with the people who are too far gone to understand it. You need to minimize their contact with potential new recruits, and reason with those people instead. And part of minimizing that contact is driving the die-hards underground where they have a hard time reaching new ears.
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Oct 31, 2017 20:20
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OwlFancier posted:If you took away PJW's twitter account he might actually die. this would absolutely happen and would own. people like PJW and ian cheong really have nothing except their lovely twitter feed
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Oct 31, 2017 20:21
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SA of all places should know that while moderation is the key to a healthy discourse, a friendly community; bans aren't an effective way to make people leave, change their opinions, or stop posting them. Directly challenge Nazi opinions because it leaves a record of why they are wrong.
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Oct 31, 2017 20:25
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FantasticExtrusion posted:You're literally just going to say I said something I didn't say and move forward with that. Ok, here's my initial and for the purposes of this argument completely unfounded assumption of your position based on your first post: OwlFancier posted:It's hella tiresome when people persist with this bizzare idea that if you work too hard to disrupt self confessed nazis you just produce more of them, followed generally by the belief that the only way to beat them is something really lame and half arsed that happens to be exactly what the poster likes most. And here's what you go on to post: FantasticExtrusion posted:All banning the one racist sub on Reddit they banned did was cause it to be reincarnated in a form self-aware enough to bring the n word to the front page a few times, something their previous sub never did as an explicitly racist group. FantasticExtrusion posted:The fact that you don't know what I'm talking about proves my point. They stopped calling people chimpanzees and got serious. So we then point out that they've always done this poo poo, and that letting people create spaces where racism is completely normal is normalizing it. And you respond with: FantasticExtrusion posted:Could you not get up in the morning and personally attack me for once. The line by line of everything I have to say is childish and one-sided. Come on. Which I'm going to be very nice and assume isn't intended as actual nazi apologism even though it literally is. You go on to say: FantasticExtrusion posted:PS I meant the physical list they actually handed out last week in public, and it wasn't a kill list, but it is a concerning precedent. Acknowledging that they've always done lists but now the lists are "concerning precedents", this is bad faith arguing as your original argument was that they are only now "getting serious" and suggesting that they've always been serious debunks that, it doesn't support it as you now seem to be pretending. You're also completely ignoring my repeated points about your contradictory understanding of what "normalizing" means. This is why people think you're full of poo poo. You're doing a real good job conforming to that stereotype I posted initially.
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Oct 31, 2017 20:27
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Yardbomb posted:Yeah basically. It's not some 'taboo' it's just fruitless with vast piles of evidence to back that up, because I and people like me have undoubtedly collectively tried millions of times and guess how many ever turned out good. Yeah, I generally like Contra, but one of the things (maybe the only thing?) I disagree with her about is that she seems to be kind of naively optimistic about the value of dialogue with certain types of people. As she's shown in her debate videos (with the characters she plays), she understands most of the main counterarguments against this, but just (in my opinion) happens to fall on the wrong side of them. That being said, I think it depends somewhat on the situation. I think there can be value in debating with dumb/terrible people (not in terms of convincing them, but in terms of persuading onlookers), but I think the situation changes when someone is a public figure to some degree and they're signal boosting a message that people otherwise wouldn't be exposed to. edit: Contra is trans, right? I feel like someone mentioned a video where she came out as trans (after earlier videos just sort of expressing gender ambiguity). I've seen other people using female-gendered pronouns recently so I'm assuming that's the case.
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Oct 31, 2017 20:29
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FantasticExtrusion posted:What the gently caress is this garbage? It's your monitor, turned off.
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Oct 31, 2017 20:30
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FantasticExtrusion posted:SA of all places should know that while moderation is the key to a healthy discourse, a friendly community; bans aren't an effective way to make people leave, change their opinions, or stop posting them. This assumes people read those records, whereas you're doing an excellent job of demonstrating that it's entirely possible to be wrong, demonstrably so, and continue trucking regardless.
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Oct 31, 2017 20:30
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