|
Having lookread the pitch that Alan Moore wrotesaid for Twilight of the Superheroes I understandget the perception that he would have put out a good storytale with it despite being grimdark but it was very badbad almost as stupiddumb as the term "grimdark" itself and he probably dodged a bullet by having the whole thing scuttled by content labels or whatever. But that's just memy opinionthought.
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2017 05:55
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 18, 2024 05:22 |
|
|
The bad stuff that happens in the one shots can be attributed to the Gentry, but it's not important to the plot of either the issue or the series. They're just good stories. Definitely read Final Crisis. It's much more straightforward.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2017 06:01
|
|
|
Edge & Christian posted:Having lookread the pitch that Alan Moore wrotesaid for Twilight of the Superheroes I understandget the perception that he would have put out a good storytale with it despite being grimdark but it was very badbad almost as stupiddumb as the term "grimdark" itself and he probably dodged a bullet by having the whole thing scuttled by content labels or whatever. Warlock's back, baby! 
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2017 06:26
|
|
|
catlord posted:Finally got to read all of Multiversity ... I haven't read Final Crisis yet, did I miss some important information by doing that? quote:Second, while I enjoyed them, I'm not quite sure how The Just, Pax Americana, Mastermen, and Ultra Comics fit in, besides The Gentry showing up a bit (and not even that for Pax Americana, unless I missed something?) quote:Ultra Comics feels like it's possibly the most important part, but I'm not quite sure what to make of it. quote:Earths 6 and 7 make up the "M***** Binary," but why isn't it trinary with Earth 8, since it's both explicitly what Earth 7 was based on, and also quite clearly a stand-in for the classic Marvel universe? quote:Edit: Does Grant Morrison have an official commentary on this? I feel that'd be fascinating to read.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2017 06:27
|
|
|
Edge & Christian posted:Having lookread the pitch that Alan Moore wrotesaid for Twilight of the Superheroes I understandget the perception that he would have put out a good storytale with it despite being grimdark but it was very badbad almost as stupiddumb as the term "grimdark" itself and he probably dodged a bullet by having the whole thing scuttled by content labels or whatever. Um, I get what you're going for here, owning all of us schmoes who use words-that-aren't-words like "grimdark", but here I'll use proper grammar for you: Twilight Of The Superheroes looks, by all intents and purposes, to be an awful idea, and it is ultimately good that DC didn't publish it. I, and others, believe that even noted good writer Alan Moore could not make such an idea into a decent comic. A story featuring the details of Captain Marvel/Billy Batson's sexual frustration is not an idea many people think is good, or even contains the potential for good. But please, feel free to mock people for disliking such a pitch and/or using terminology that, while not accepted by Merrian-Webster, has been internet lingo for years now.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2017 06:40
|
|
|
I was directly responding to someone who believed that because Alan Moore wrote it, it would have been "really good" which is what I was responding to, not any consensus belief that it sounds really bad. I was responding to an individual, not you or anyone who might share your (our) opinion that it's a pretty terrible pitch. Also yeah, sorry. Grimdark is dumb as hell. It reminds me of Warlock's goofy selffriend talk, or the cargo cult "in the up up in the beforetime where boomgun make noise noise" post apocalyptic nonsense and it doesn't add anything to anything. Lots of people have pet peeves. If people want to talk about relentlessly dark comics or "grim & gritty" comics or "grim" comics or "dark" comics it turns out there are lots of words with meaning that people can use. I also understand that people know what "grimdark" means but if people just started going "it's embarassing how many sextitties comics Top Cow used to put out" or "I think Jack Kirby had the best braindraws out there" or "Gwenpool is my favorite HaHaLaff comic" or whatever it would also sound loving stupid. Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 07:18 on Oct 29, 2017 |
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2017 07:14
|
|
|
Yeah, the phrase that is a direct reference to Warhammer 40k's purple prose sounds dumb. If it sounded good it wouldn't have been a source of mockery in the first place.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2017 07:38
|
|
|
i have greater faith in moore's ability to bring the story into flesh than you guys, obviously. if miracleman was described to me as a brief abstract it would've sounded juvenile, too; 'so, yeah, we'll have, like... reefs of baby-skulls and babies impaled on the same spike as their mother, vlad tepes style, in the middle of london. and the superhumans we make will no longer have our norms so they'll have a liberated sexuality, oh, and we have a big panel that shows a baby crowning in a photo-realistic style''. the billy batson thing as the general idea that he is failing at reconciling two aspects of his person works, the locked door mystery with martian manhunter being a shapeshifting hooker less so.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2017 08:00
|
|
|
Edge & Christian posted:Also yeah, sorry. Grimdark is dumb as hell. It reminds me of Warlock's goofy selffriend talk, or the cargo cult "in the up up in the beforetime where boomgun make noise noise" post apocalyptic nonsense and it doesn't add anything to anything. Lots of people have pet peeves. If people want to talk about relentlessly dark comics or "grim & gritty" comics or "grim" comics or "dark" comics it turns out there are lots of words with meaning that people can use. Look, go play some Shootmans with JohnHalo, or maybe some Sportsball Current Year, or some Punchmans Animu might be more your speed. Whatever gets you off of the transgressions of Internet Nadsat. Oh, and please don't read that Crossed +100 comic. The badspeak might sex your brainstuff real true. Neurosis posted:i have greater faith in moore's ability to bring the story into flesh than you guys, obviously. I think the general cause of pause is that It's DC Ruins and it takes some of the characters way, way into a weird place that's hard to reconcile. The parts about society being carved up between superhero protectorates is cool, the part where Doll Man is some alien insectile wretch is kind of ... much? FilthyImp fucked around with this message at 08:20 on Oct 29, 2017 |
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2017 08:07
|
|
|
Neurosis posted:i have greater faith in moore's ability to bring the story into flesh than you guys, obviously. if miracleman was described to me as a brief abstract it would've sounded juvenile, too; 'so, yeah, we'll have, like... reefs of baby-skulls and babies impaled on the same spike as their mother, vlad tepes style, in the middle of london. and the superhumans we make will no longer have our norms so they'll have a liberated sexuality, oh, and we have a big panel that shows a baby crowning in a photo-realistic style''. the billy batson thing as the general idea that he is failing at reconciling two aspects of his person works, the locked door mystery with martian manhunter being a shapeshifting hooker less so.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2017 08:18
|
|
|
Archyduke posted:Warlock's back, baby! This is how I found out that Warlock's voice now permanently sounds, in my head, like Jay Edidin's when he narrates for Warlock.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2017 12:06
|
|
|
catlord posted:Edit: Does Grant Morrison have an official commentary on this? I feel that'd be fascinating to read. Not Morrison, but here's a series trying to parse everything page by page . http://comicsalliance.com/multiversity-dc-comics-grant-morrison-annotations-part-1/ e: Here's another. No idea which to follow. http://www.multiversitycomics.com/annotations/multiversity-explores-the-multiversity-1-come-with-us-now-on-a-journey/ ee: Doesn't look like either made it to the end of the series. Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 13:37 on Oct 29, 2017 |
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2017 13:29
|
|
|
Doctor Spaceman posted:Yeah, the phrase that is a direct reference to Warhammer 40k's purple prose sounds dumb. If it sounded good it wouldn't have been a source of mockery in the first place. FilthyImp posted:This is really the hill you want to immolate on? I get that "lol people say slang on the internet english is a living language remember ten years ago when i would have called you a human being retard and everyone would just nod and say you got owned scrub now we have evolved past that grandpa" and if I am being honest all of the stuff you mentioned is basically self-conscious self-deprecating babytalk that yeah, I think is dumb and useless but if you want to make wacky jokes about how boy howdy I sure don't care about the sporting event you care about, woo sportsball knock yourself out. The fact that "grimdark" crops up as like a Serious Historical/Critical Term (a term that unless I am missing something between how people use it in comics discussion and the wikipedia description) isn't even really clear about what you're talking about outside of context clues makes it kind of terrible. But we also live in a world where people were trying really hard to make "corncobs" a type of centrist liberal politician or something, so maybe we are closer to Crossed +100 in a bunch of ways. Also does anyone remember when people were trying to get "bloodshit" over as shorthand for 1990s Image comics? That was also dumb.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2017 13:53
|
|
|
Holy poo poo grimdark (the word) is less than 10 years.Edge & Christian posted:I'm going to confess to being confused by this whole phrase now because I had never connected it to Warhammer 40k and if you go to Wikipedia's "grimdark" page it suggests that the term was coined to describe fantasy novels like A Song of Ice and Fire? Originally it was a bit of a pejorative; to say a work was grimdark was to say it was the kind of thing that would use the phrase "grim darkness" in earnest. As is frequently the case with such things it's now used a bit more broadly (including by people who like that kind of bleak and baleful story).
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2017 14:16
|
|
|
Edge & Christian posted:I'm going to confess to being confused by this whole phrase now because I had never connected it to Warhammer 40k and if you go to Wikipedia's "grimdark" page it suggests that the term was coined to describe fantasy novels like A Song of Ice and Fire? I've legitimately only ever seen it used by people condemning post-Watchmen 'dark superhero' comics / things they think are similar to that. So I guess I learned something today, that either someone retconned the origin of the term, or I've only ever seen people using it kind of shittily. You are being a corncob. You also don't understand "corncob".
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2017 18:12
|
|
|
Mr Hootington posted:You are being a corncob. You also don't understand "corncob".
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2017 18:29
|
|
|
FilthyImp posted:Good words about Multiversity Ah, ok, that makes sense, thanks! Teenage Fansub posted:Not Morrison, but here's a series trying to parse everything page by page . Hm, that's disappointing, I'll check them out though. Looking at other cosmic DC stories, I'm thinking I'll pick up Omega Men next time, and then after that Final Crisis? I'm also intrigued by Godhead and, despite not being a fan of their size, I'm interested in that upcoming New Gods omnibus. Do you think there's a chance that they'll split that up into trades later?
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2017 22:40
|
|
|
Neurosis posted:i have greater faith in moore's ability to bring the story into flesh than you guys, obviously. if miracleman was described to me as a brief abstract it would've sounded juvenile, too; 'so, yeah, we'll have, like... reefs of baby-skulls and babies impaled on the same spike as their mother, vlad tepes style, in the middle of london. and the superhumans we make will no longer have our norms so they'll have a liberated sexuality, oh, and we have a big panel that shows a baby crowning in a photo-realistic style''. the billy batson thing as the general idea that he is failing at reconciling two aspects of his person works, the locked door mystery with martian manhunter being a shapeshifting hooker less so. To be fair though, if, say, Neonomicon was described to me as a brief abstract it would sound juvenile, and on paper, well, it's not only juvenile but tedious. I think Alan Moore's most facile points are about sexuality because he wants to imagine his way past repressive prudishness but he's also unable to get one foot out of the "sex is gross/scary" pit. Hence all the ways in which interesting later Moore stuff is irreparably damaged by his inability to not be glib about sexual violence. The thing about the Billy Batson in particular, like-- I have no doubt in my mind that he thought he was making one point, but that he'd wind up making two in total opposition to each other: Superheroes are beyond human sexual mores and show us the way beyond our cultural repressionand Superheroes are total pervs, luv. He can't have both-- but he keeps trying! And he's the most successful when this problem is muted or if the narrative makes space for this ambivalence-- like in Watchmen- but Twilight [...] sounds like it would have been a weird reductive mess more along the lines of later LoEG.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2017 22:53
|
|
|
catlord posted:Do you think there's a chance that they'll split that up into trades later? There were four mini-omnibus trades that were reprinted in, like 2011. You might get lucky finding those.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2017 08:29
|
|
|
Archyduke posted:To be fair though, if, say, Neonomicon was described to me as a brief abstract it would sound juvenile, and on paper, well, it's not only juvenile but tedious. I think Alan Moore's most facile points are about sexuality because he wants to imagine his way past repressive prudishness but he's also unable to get one foot out of the "sex is gross/scary" pit. Hence all the ways in which interesting later Moore stuff is irreparably damaged by his inability to not be glib about sexual violence. The thing about the Billy Batson in particular, like-- I have no doubt in my mind that he thought he was making one point, but that he'd wind up making two in total opposition to each other: Superheroes are beyond human sexual mores and show us the way beyond our cultural repressionand Superheroes are total pervs, luv. He can't have both-- but he keeps trying! And he's the most successful when this problem is muted or if the narrative makes space for this ambivalence-- like in Watchmen- but Twilight [...] sounds like it would have been a weird reductive mess more along the lines of later LoEG. neonomicon was garbage, agreed. i'd like to think having DC editorial on board would have ended up with some of those weirder bits smoothed off.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2017 11:14
|
|
|
It could easily go the other way and make it worse.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2017 17:20
|
|
|
Roth posted:It could easily go the other way and make it worse. DC: "Alan, this is okay, but could you maybe work in some dismemberment? Just like, one arm ripped off, then we're good to go."
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2017 20:35
|
|
|
DC to publish Batman/Wonder Woman series drawn by Liam Sharp OOOOOOH No mention of any writer yet, and I don't think Sharp would write it himself.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2017 01:13
|
|
|
"Expect Batman/Wonder Woman #1 in February 2017" Not long to wait!
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2017 01:59
|
|
|
I wonder if I could convince DC to give Wally West a book by pitching it as Batman/Wally West.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2017 03:03
|
|
|
How about just giving wonder woman a second book like supes and bats have
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2017 19:30
|
|
|
site posted:How about just giving wonder woman a second book like supes and bats have
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2017 19:56
|
|
|
site posted:How about just giving wonder woman a second book like supes and bats have Action Comics! Detective Comics! Sen...sation... Comics...?
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2017 23:36
|
|
|
Edge & Christian posted:I see you mentioned Batman. Sounds like you want another Batman book? Batman Detective comics Nightwing Batgirl Batwoman Harley Quinn Super sons Mother panic Wonder woman maybe another ww origin story 6 months from now blowingmybrainsout.gif
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2017 02:22
|
|
|
Don't forget Batman crossovers, or Batman Elseworlds, or Metal, aka Forever Evil But All Batmans aka The Only Way to Stop a Bad Batman is With A Good Batman But What if There Were A Dozen Bad Batmans Oh Boy Wait Til You See Our Good Batmans
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2017 04:25
|
|
|
Curious if Sensation Comics, Wonder Woman Earth One, Legend of Wonder Woman, Wonder Woman: The True Amazon, and Odyssey of the Amazons sold strongly enough to keep additional Wonder Woman titles going. I'm more than prepared to sacrifice my wallet to Legend of Wonder Woman Season Two if DC would just let some mean tweets go and re-hire the original team back.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2017 05:11
|
|
|
So Batman: White Knight #2... hoo boy. So we ended the last issue with Joker saying he was going to go legal on the GCPD and Batman's rear end. This issue has him meeting Classic Harley because their are two Harley Quinn's now, who is his wife, well, ex-wife. She fell in love with the psychopath, but then realized he was in love with Batman, and had a shrine for him. Then she found him in the basement torturing Jason Todd for Batman's identity and when he wouldn't talk he tried to MURDER him! This made Harley leave. Then he decides, rather than do it above the system, he's got to get an army together to fight the GCPD and Batman, so he invites all the villains to a bar and gives them a speech and they say no, but that's okay, Because he took Mad Hatters hat, used it on Clayface, then distilled Clayface into dust, seeded him in all the villains drinks and now he has a mind controlled army. This is supposed to be the books protagonist. He's supposed to be the good guy. If you're interested in NOT MUH HARLEY and a laughably bad plot, then check it out, but otherwise avoid.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2017 23:29
|
|
|
Good of The Devastator to make this an actual event comic for DC by having a panel where Batman loses an arm
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2017 23:31
|
|
|
Onmi posted:So Batman: White Knight #2... hoo boy. So wait how is this different from a normal Batman comic.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2017 23:34
|
|
|
CharlestheHammer posted:So wait how is this different from a normal Batman comic. The Joker's supposed to be the protagonist and Sane. Also he claims he's never murdered anyone.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2017 23:44
|
|
|
Onmi posted:So Batman: White Knight #2... hoo boy. Yeah I liked the first issue because the pitch of "a rogue actually reforms and calls Batman on his bullshit (and GCPD for aiding his vigilantism)" seemed like a good premise, but this issue went and flushed that down the toilet immediately.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2017 23:49
|
|
|
I didn't really care for the story in Deadman, but oh boy, I'm going to keep getting this mini just for that art
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2017 23:50
|
|
|
When are people going to learn that "edgy" "bold" stories that "deconstruct" whether heroes or villains are really good or bad or not are never as good as you think they are? Yes, even that one. Yes, also the one you're thinking of right now. Zero exceptions. And that one too. Yup, and also that one. Did I stutter? Anyways, Green Lanterns has managed to remain a great book even after the recent creative team change, which is a welcome surprise. I don't think any other book has managed to resemble the spirit and heart of the 90s Kyle Rayner stories, but it's coming through really well in Simon and Jessica here.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2017 23:55
|
|
|
BrianWilly posted:When are people going to learn that "edgy" "bold" stories that "deconstruct" whether heroes or villains are really good or bad or not are never as good as you think they are? I'll have you know that Injustice is an artistic masterpiece
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2017 23:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 18, 2024 05:22 |
|
|
Roth posted:I didn't really care for the story in Deadman, but oh boy, I'm going to keep getting this mini just for that art Yeah I know. Story confused the hell outta me and it was just so meh
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2017 00:04
|
|
