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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qH6F2j-XAyg promo video for evolving Diablomon/Keramon
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Nov 1, 2017 10:33
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Diaboromon*
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Nov 1, 2017 14:18
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"The worst Digimon" is correct and now canon and thus undeniable.
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Nov 1, 2017 15:37
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PMush Perfect posted:Diaboromon* I’m not doing this :p
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Nov 1, 2017 15:39
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Diaboromon: The Worst Digimon
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Nov 1, 2017 15:42
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Um excuse me, Diavolomon is actually really cool and good as hell
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Nov 1, 2017 19:31
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diaboromon owns, as does diablomon, but NOT diavolomon
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Nov 2, 2017 01:40
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You know, after rewatching 02, I've come to a conclusion that's hard to admit to my much, much younger self. Demon was kind of boring. Like say what you will about 02's ending at least Vamdemon had the history going for him. Demon isn't even fun like Piemon, nor does he have Devimon's sure brazenness to laugh in the face of Angemon defeating him. He's just. Really super dull. I'm not really convinced he would have carried the finale any better, or even been a compelling villain for Tri. EDIT - Kikuchi does give a really standout performance though, I will admit.
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Nov 2, 2017 04:01
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The problem is that the only GOOD Dark Ocean stuff was the one episode written by the one guy who did not come back for that whole thing That whole mini arc is the definition of filler, despite the fact that it debuts Imperialdramon Fighter Mode in the lamest way possible. Demon may have proven to be a fantastic villain if he was given the time and attention for it. Instead he's just thrown in there only to be shuffled out five seconds later 02 just has a whole problem with filler in a way 01 never did for whatever reason. It doesn't help that, as we've discussed in the past, the threat level of 02 is ratcheted way down as far as the villains go.
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Nov 2, 2017 04:20
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I'm not looking into getting into that debate again. I'm just saying, the character's esteem in the fandom seems to mostly come from what "could have been" rather than what was on screen. That being said, I maintain that it's better that we don't know the whole deal about Dagomon. The whole point of Lovecraft stuff is that you don't know what that thing scaring the crap out of you truly is. Konaka wanted to write a simple story homaging stuff he was into and move on. The ocean itself is more important and they did enough with it being a source of despair. The Adventureverse relies too much on nebulous dark power as a source of conflict as it is anyway.
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Nov 2, 2017 04:23
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I'm not really arguing about the quality of the show though? I'm stating an actual empirical fact. The threat level from the villains was much lower than in season 1. Chimeramon was, at best, a Myotismon level threat if that. The strongest enemy they fought besides him was Black War Greymon, who is explicitly only as strong as War Greymon, and it's questionable if MaloMyotismon was stronger than VenomMyotismon straight up. Malo had a lot more mind fuckery powers, rather than raw strength. Otherwise I wouldn't place money that Mummymon and Arukeinimon were that much stronger than Etemon, definitely not as strong as Etemon fused with the Dark Network. Demon is nebulously strong I guess but his whole deal is just wasted. I honestly wasn't aware there was any interest in the guy. I completely forget about him myself. I always think of, as you pointed out, Dagomon as the true master of the Dark Ocean. He's the one whose design we see in the good Dark Ocean episode that leans super heavy on the creepy lovecraft stuff. The mini arc later on is just a bunch of evil Digimon without any of the great lovecraft nonsense.
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Nov 2, 2017 04:28
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mandatory lesbian posted:diaboromon owns, as does diablomon, but NOT diavolomon Diavolomon wasn't terrible, but he was definitely much less interesting than Diomon and Kiramon. Burkion posted:02 just has a whole problem with filler in a way 01 never did for whatever reason. It doesn't help that, as we've discussed in the past, the threat level of 02 is ratcheted way down as far as the villains go. The "whatever reason" is very well-known: too many writers. They basically couldn't ever agree on what to do with the story so we ended up having 02's dysfunctional story where a million plot lines would appear then disappear just as suddenly having accomplished nothing. Demon and the Dark Ocean are just the most obvious examples, with the latter having a happy ending in that Konaka was just given his own series to gently caress with afterwards, giving us the beauty that is Tamers.
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Nov 2, 2017 04:30
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I didn't point that out? I was pointing out his conceptual origins and what Konaka likely wanted to do with him. He wanted to do a homage to Lovecraft, as he is known to do, and chose an existing Digimon as a basis for the story. He wasn't trying to create a new big bad, and the Dark Ocean itself was just built on for other characters' stories. Demon doesn't have anything to do with the Dark Ocean other than it being used to trap him, from what I remember. I'm not really concerned with what how strong the antagonists are anymore. Like MetalSeadramon and Mugendramon are pretty strong but also just as boring as the Demon Corps. are. Diablomon, meanwhile, has no personality and is fairly weak outside of the special powers he has, but the situation he creates around him is what's interesting. Etemon is hilarious, but I think we got stronger stories out of the comparatively weaker Nanomon. Kimeramon is just a monster, but he also has the Devimon angle, so that saves him from being a fat load of nothing. Adventure had its ups and downs with bad guys across both shows and how strong they were is the least important part of why they did or didn't work. Nodosaur fucked around with this message at 04:38 on Nov 2, 2017 |
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Nov 2, 2017 04:36
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Digimon Thread - Arguing that we're not arguing
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Nov 2, 2017 04:41
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This is one area where the dub may have spoiled me, because I loving love MetalSeadramon and Machinedramon. MetalSeadramon is just really sick and tired of all of this stupid poo poo and his accent is great. He's always super impressed with himself and the way he talks is fantastic. Machinedramon is dry wit and sarcasm personified. No nonsense, no bullshit, and when his drones are sassing him he puts the fear of himself into them. Machinedramon really does get some brilliantly dark lines and some fantastic put downs and even sells his stupid "Elimi-8" joke. They walk a very fine balance and pull it off well with them. Kind of like how I think Dub Agumon is superior to Japanese Agumon because holy poo poo, he's allowed to use multi syllable words and think about things that aren't food. Etemon in English is also a thing of beauty, the man monkey was made to be an Elvis Impersonator. When the Dub goes too far is obvious, of course. Oh Apocalymon. Oh you poor, poor bastard. Dub Machinedramon is really goddamn good. Nice and sinister and super heavy for a kids villain. I don't know what he's like in the Japanese version but looking up the dub lines, he's got a lot of personality.
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Nov 2, 2017 04:43
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I just don't know why power levels were brought up in the first place. EDIT - dub lines are all well and good if you like that sort of thing, but it's better when it's there from the start because it actually gets to influence the story around them. Etemon's humor has a much better energy to it than that sort of thing because the animation leans into it. in the original... well, Mugendramon has a good voice. Otherwise there's a reason why his arc is so drat short. Nodosaur fucked around with this message at 04:47 on Nov 2, 2017 |
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Nov 2, 2017 04:43
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Oh God. I just checked his Japanese scenes. The guy is basically a mute for most of the time, only stating really boring poo poo. Christ you can argue whatever you want for how bad the dub could be at times, it is no contest that Machinedramon from the dub is 100% superior. Scene: Machinedramon has just emerged and is charging his weapon to fire at the fleeing kids after bombing them out of hiding. It's a fairly long time on his charge up. Dub Machinedramon "Go ahead, scurry away. Ask any rat catcher, the chase is part of the fun! Giga Cannon!" Japanese Machinedramon "Mugen Cannon." EDIT: I think, without question, my preferred version of Digimon season 1 would be a hybrid. Most of the dub track, music score from the Japanese version, and Japanese Apocalymon.
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Nov 2, 2017 04:52
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TFRazorsaw posted:in the original... well, Mugendramon has a good voice. Otherwise there's a reason why his arc is so drat short. And yet, those few episodes are the best part of Adventure for me. It's the most tense part, where it's really just Mugendramon's full control over a carefully positioned army that could attack at any point and in full force VS a heavily weakened Chosen Children team where the Deus Ex Machina is sick and the hero is losing it due to that. And Koshiro is just trying his goddamn best to keep Taichi sane, showing how strong their friendship is. Piedmon was super great too and definitely a better-written antagonist but Mugendramon's few episodes are just super strong and I would've loved to have more of that.
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Nov 2, 2017 04:54
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One could argue that he's meant to be ruthless and machine-like, but it doesn't really come out very well. Neither version of him is really all that interesting, though. But that's just my opinion. Blaze Dragon posted:And yet, those few episodes are the best part of Adventure for me. It's the most tense part, where it's really just Mugendramon's full control over a carefully positioned army that could attack at any point and in full force VS a heavily weakened Chosen Children team where the Deus Ex Machina is sick and the hero is losing it due to that. And Koshiro is just trying his goddamn best to keep Taichi sane, showing how strong their friendship is. I'm not saying they're bad episodes, I really like them. It's just Mugendramon himself has very little to do with why I enjoy it. The real meat of the arc comes from Taichi's conflict, and meeting Andromon again, and the stuff with Hikari. Making the arc any longer would require Mugendramon to have more actual personality. It's no mystery why Puppetmon is the longest Dark Master arc, he's the one with the most depth. And even then it felt padded out. Nodosaur fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Nov 2, 2017 |
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Nov 2, 2017 04:54
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He's a chimera of the previous mechanic Digimon that forms a dragon with giant cannons, while he's undeniably not well-written, that design is still top-tier in Digimon in general. His upgraded version in Chaosdramon just isn't nearly as good, although Chaosdramon X is very good as well. Anyways, have something cute instead. https://twitter.com/SoftKeychains/status/925745233064792064
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Nov 2, 2017 05:03
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sure. I have no issues with his design. I like Chaosdramon a bit more though, personally. speaking of good designs, Offmon is pretty great in general.
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Nov 2, 2017 05:05
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Burkion posted:EDIT: I think, without question, my preferred version of Digimon season 1 would be a hybrid. Most of the dub track, music score from the Japanese version, and Japanese Apocalymon.
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Nov 2, 2017 05:07
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that'd mean creating too much original recorded english dialogue, so no, no one has ever done that.
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Nov 2, 2017 05:09
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Chaosdramon's official art does him no favors by looking too rounded and compressed. Find card or game art where he's doing the Machinedramon hunch and his cannons are fully extended, and he hits the spit real, real nice.
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Nov 2, 2017 05:17
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PMush Perfect posted:Same. Any chance there's someone who could cut that together? Or already has, knowing the Digimon fandom? There is a certain file floating around the internet that's about as close as you'll ever get, I'm afraid. If you know where to look and where to go, you can find a version of the show that has either audio options, subtitles, and has the dub laid over the uncut Japanese original footage pretty drat seamlessly. Mostly thanks to the dub barely cutting anything out to begin with. The issue is that the English audio is hard coded to its musical score, so there's no way to mix and match that. You'd have to find the original raw English lines before they were mixed with the score, while also having the Japanese audio and score on separate tracks as well. I doubt either still exist, but if they did such a fusion would be possible. As it is, with the version I found, it's fairly easy to just flip to the Japanese audio track whenever Apocalymon speaks. Also the version I have shows just how much more character the Digimon are given in the dub. I hope it's that way in other languages too, because the Japanese Digimon just get grating to me with how simplistic they can be.
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Nov 2, 2017 05:18
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I don't think you're really being fair there, Burk. Tri simplifies Agumon a fair bit, but he's very different in Adventure and 02 and he gets into a philosophical discussion with BlackWarGreymon. Tentomon was smart and insightful before the dub too, and everyone else is mostly the same, barring Tailmon's lack of bad cat jokes.
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Nov 2, 2017 05:25
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PMush Perfect posted:Same. Any chance there's someone who could cut that together? Or already has, knowing the Digimon fandom? I'm still waiting for someone to do an edit of The Movie replacing the Hurricane Touchdown portion of the movie with the dubbed version of Movie 4
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Nov 2, 2017 09:18
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Ugh, I feel like that nerd complaining about it, but the Tri dub has kind of lost something. It feels like they're focusing more on being Good Voice Actors and not being ridiculous, at the cost of not really knowing where else to go. So it's not campy and ridiculous any more, but there's nothing else there to make up for it. It's just.... okay.
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Nov 2, 2017 10:38
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An important thing to consider is that the original dub isn’t exactly what the original crew wanted either. Nimoy and various voice actors have said that the “wackiness” was pushed for by the producers and the network, who always wanted them to escalate things and remove a lot of the tension. I believe Nimoy himself has said that Data Squad, which has far less of that and is much more of a closer dub, was closer to what he wanted Adventure and 02 to be. The Tri. dub has a few issues (the Ishida family situation continues to be messed up) but I wouldn’t be surprised if that sentiment were carrying over.
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Nov 2, 2017 12:46
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I haven't seen the dubs of any of the other parts but I thought the "Did that Nigerian prince write you back?" line in the first one was pretty great.
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Nov 2, 2017 12:51
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That was the second one, and it's a good example of how to add humor that isn't intrusive.
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Nov 2, 2017 12:54
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TFRazorsaw posted:Whether you say it's canon or not, it just comes down to how the creatives treat it. Even if it's not canon, it's already something that was a big part of promotion for a movie, appeared in a not insignificant role in one of the anime, and has been a Digimon who gets promoted more than the average. You can't say the same about a bunch of the others; the most Hououmon has ever done in any digimon media is hover in the distance in its stock art pose in Tamers. That doesn’t excuse why Seraphimon is always, without fail, showing up solely to be easily defeated by whatever happens to be the threat at the moment.
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Nov 2, 2017 13:01
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No, it doesn't excuse anything, but it's also hilarious, which does.
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Nov 2, 2017 13:03
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TFRazorsaw posted:An important thing to consider is that the original dub isn’t exactly what the original crew wanted either. Nimoy and various voice actors have said that the “wackiness” was pushed for by the producers and the network, who always wanted them to escalate things and remove a lot of the tension. I believe Nimoy himself has said that Data Squad, which has far less of that and is much more of a closer dub, was closer to what he wanted Adventure and 02 to be. Edit The best way I can describe it is that it feels like the English actors were holding back because they were afraid of looking silly. girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 13:08 on Nov 2, 2017 |
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Nov 2, 2017 13:06
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Huh, well, that's a bit of a different thing than I initially assumed. I can understand not being as big on the performances. Personally, I finally actually came to like Mimi's dub actor in part 2. That exchange with Jou in the rain was pretty emotional, and she was playing Mimi like a real character instead of a stereotypical cartoon princess.
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Nov 2, 2017 13:11
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TFRazorsaw posted:That was the second one, and it's a good example of how to add humor that isn't intrusive. Oh, guess I've seen two of them then! The fact I couldn't remember that kinda demonstrates what you're saying. The difference in voice direction is probably because, well, the voice director is different. It's the same one as Fusion if I remember right. Nimoy isn't really involved outside of voicing tentomon.
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Nov 2, 2017 13:18
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No, the director for the Tri dub is someone else. Fusion’s Voice Director was Mary Elizabeth McGlynn. Tri’s Voice Director is Ryan Johnston.
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Nov 2, 2017 13:31
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drrockso20 posted:I'm still waiting for someone to do an edit of The Movie replacing the Hurricane Touchdown portion of the movie with the dubbed version of Movie 4 On one hand, that would probably be a lot more cohesive of a product. On the other hand, it would only exacerbate how much 4 felt like "gently caress it, we're doing 2 again, but bigger!"
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Nov 2, 2017 13:42
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TFRazorsaw posted:No, the director for the Tri dub is someone else. Fusion’s Voice Director was Mary Elizabeth McGlynn. Tri’s Voice Director is Ryan Johnston. Oh, right. I forgot McGlynn did Fusion too. I could have sworn I read it was Ryan Johnston... Huh.
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Nov 2, 2017 13:46
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TFRazorsaw posted:Personally, I finally actually came to like Mimi's dub actor in part 2. That exchange with Jou in the rain was pretty emotional, and she was playing Mimi like a real character instead of a stereotypical cartoon princess.
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Nov 2, 2017 13:46
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