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Oh I thought your last response was a joke and not an actual counter-argument I'm having a pretty good night so my reply was an attempt to disengage, not counter-argue lol, I'm sure other posters can help you learn more about the average pricing of produce around the US, or about why small fringe purchases are not the reason young people are unable to jump into 100k+ "investments"
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Nov 2, 2017 04:42
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your brain must be broken, saying that there's a shop in australia selling $19 smashed avocados is not a "counter argument", that's just fact
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Nov 2, 2017 04:46
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Working 16 hour days every day of the week sounds like a dumb way to waste your life, no matter how many millions you make. I'd rather work a normal job, normal hours, normal pay and actually enjoy my entire life, not just what comes after retirement.
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Nov 2, 2017 04:47
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woops I forgot the context was initially about Australian housing prices, not US that's on me that said, millenials in the US are given similar flack by individuals who are a bit out of touch and the meme resonated with us, especially those of us living in "hip" high COL areas
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Nov 2, 2017 04:50
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Getting a little snippy.
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Nov 2, 2017 04:52
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Snippy, you say?
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Nov 2, 2017 04:52
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Zo posted:your brain must be broken, saying that there's a shop in australia selling $19 smashed avocados is not a "counter argument", that's just fact actually they're all discounted now after the article so whose brain is broken now???
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Nov 2, 2017 04:53
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Haifisch posted:Snippy, you say?
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Nov 2, 2017 04:53
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Haifisch posted:Snippy, you say? Zo posted:i'd pay $19 for those You two can if you want
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Nov 2, 2017 04:56
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Zo posted:oh wow a whole $34000, and he only turned it into how many hundreds of millions? He did the real estate equivalent of getting $34000 to invest in bitcoin circa 2010. He was really lucky with the timing and it allowed him to get a foot in the door right before a massive speculative run-up, so unless he could do the same in a bear market I won't be buying into his post hoc rationalizations. e. dang, thread moved fast in the five minutes it took me to read this page and post. don't probe me bro  real estate bubble related content crosspost: unknown posted:Hahaha, segment on global news in Toronto: Who ever could have thought that house prices do anything other than go up? Guest2553 fucked around with this message at 05:01 on Nov 2, 2017 |
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Nov 2, 2017 04:57
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The context for the discussion about avocados is median house price in Sydney is over a million Australian dollars and median income is about $80k AUD, that's second only to Hong Kong in terms of ratio. People with $100,000 in savings are being refused mortgages that cover basic 2 bedroom house in the suburbs. There's much talk about how impractical it's getting for younger people to break into the market compared to previous generations and if the tax incentives to investors need to be rolled back/dropped to rein in speculation. Thinking that a flat white and smashed avocado on sourdough breakfast costing $20 is a smoking gun for millennial spending habits being the barrier to entry into real estate is absurd. In their lifetime, (since 1980) Sydney real estate has had the largest real price increase of all the world's cities.
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Nov 2, 2017 05:00
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The comments in the Australian and New Zealand housing markets were ridiculous. Last year you needed to save at least $300 per week towards a house deposit just to keep up with the house price increases and not make any progress. More like $500-$1000 per week in Auckland. Saving on avocados, smart phones and Sky TV wasn't going to make a drat difference. This shack failed to sell at auction for $1m this week (it would have sold for that easily last year). Now they're asking $865k and it's rotting away. https://www.trademe.co.nz/property/residential-property-for-sale/auction-1434438442.htm New Zealanders are retarded with money.
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Nov 2, 2017 05:01
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Zo posted:i'd pay $19 for those https://www.amazon.com/Kikkerland-SC16-Toucan-Kitchen-Shears/dp/B00DS7DAMM For $19, two can be gotten
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Nov 2, 2017 05:01
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OctaviusBeaver posted:Seriously that isn't that much money to start out with. I had that much saved up from internships before I was out of college and I didn't do anything impressive with it. People will tell themselves anything to avoid dealing with the fact that they can't afford to go out to eat every day and buy a car that's half their salary when they make $30k. We live in the most prosperous society in human history, you can afford to sock away 10% of your salary if you have even the tiniest amount of responsibility. It's funny how in arguments like these, everyone on every side fixates on particular details and beats at them for dear life with the expectation that destroying (sorry, "DESTROYING 😡", for the youtube superstars among us) that one point will win them the argument. 34 grand might not be a huge amount of money compared to this or that, but there's also the fact that if his grandfather was able to give him that then his family was obviously not hurting for cash, so they could afford a stable lifestyle, keep him properly housed and clothed and fed and educated, etc. It's like how people go HURR BILL GATES DROPPED OUT OF COLLEGE SO COLLEGE IS OBVIOUSLY FOR CUCKS WHO CAN'T and miss the same point: It's much easier when you have parents who can afford to further your interests and connect you with those who have power. And don't forget how "the most prosperous society in human history" doesn't mean "every person in that society has a full belly and a good education and hope for the future". Seriously Octavius that's a pretty glaring oversight. You'd have to be fairly stupid or sociopathic to think "welp, I guess Joe Sixthofeightkids from Detroit has no one to blame but himself for not being able to find a job that pays more than 110% of his living expenses", especially when your society is furiously masturbating itself dry as it removes more and more of its already threadbare safety net. Hey Octavius, tell us more about your living situation growing up. Did you ever go to school hungry because your parents couldn't afford to feed you? Was your school in an underfunded district in a town with significant social problems, so that most of your day was spent getting through the day rather than learning? Who supported you when you were doing those internships? Who paid for your living expenses and education? What did you think you would do if you lost your job--depend on family or hit the streets? Off on a tangent but I love how the "well I got where I was entirely on my own two feet and through absolutely no help at all from anyone else" crowd make such a hue and cry when you suggest setting the inheritance tax rate at 100%. I mean, come on, you wouldn't want anyone else getting something for nothing, would you? Why should someone get hundreds of thousands of dollars in welfare just because they happened to be born to someone with money? That'll just encourage them to become lazy and shiftless.
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Nov 2, 2017 05:02
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I'm not going to quote that because it's a enormous post, but it is a Good Post, derail be damned. Also Zo sucks and I'm pretty sure he's even more of a poo poo head in the GBS cops thread
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Nov 2, 2017 05:28
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Good point. My brother and I received some inheritances, and I thought very carefully what I should do with the money. I told my brother that it was his money and he was free to do whatever he wanted with it, but try to use it on something he would still have 10 years from now, be it a reliable vehicle, contributing toward the down payment of a house, or being free of some outstanding debt X years sooner.
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Nov 2, 2017 05:42
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A marketing exec at my company just sent out an all staff email suggesting people invest in a Chinese travel website ICO. I guess that ponzi bubble's finished extracting cash from the early investors and is now working on the wider public.
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Nov 2, 2017 05:55
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xiw posted:A marketing exec at my company just sent out an all staff email suggesting people invest in a Chinese travel website ICO. I guess that ponzi bubble's finished extracting cash from the early investors and is now working on the wider public. I see being in marketing doesn't make people any more aware or less gullible.
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Nov 2, 2017 07:11
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I don't understand this ICO business. Like I get the Bitcoin pitch, if I thought that Bitcoin was going to replace all the world's currencies and become the new common global money I'd buy in too because the future demand for it would be insane. But why would I want to buy some company's Disneybucks, these new coins can't all become the new single global currency so the only demand for them would be from people who want to buy the company's product. Do customers have to bid the tokens away from me in order to shop there, if so isn't any appreciation just a price hike on customers that's going to drive them away? Or will the company exchange tokens at a fixed rate to anyone who wants them like an arcade in which case how do I profit? Or am I getting them at a discount now and I'll be able to redeem them for face value later, in which case why wouldn't I want the protection of a bond instead? Or why wouldn't I want equity. Like how is this different from going to the car wash, dropping $1k on tokens and stashing them in my basement, except that I guess if the car wash fails I can still sell my coins for scrap.
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Nov 2, 2017 07:34
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Panfilo posted:Good point. My brother and I received some inheritances, and I thought very carefully what I should do with the money. I told my brother that it was his money and he was free to do whatever he wanted with it, but try to use it on something he would still have 10 years from now, be it a reliable vehicle, contributing toward the down payment of a house, or being free of some outstanding debt X years sooner. I don't see what this has to do with what I was saying except that we both had the word "inheritance" in our posts.
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Nov 2, 2017 08:45
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BWM more like BWP (bad with posting) Here’s GWM: im going from Virginia to Vancouver, British Columbia today and it’s only costing me $50 out of pocket.
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Nov 2, 2017 08:48
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BEHOLD: MY CAPE posted:Yeah and also there are people who legitimately never be able to save because there are millions and millions of extremely lovely jobs that don't pay living wage while physically exhausting and crippling the people that work them. Think Amazon warehouse stockers. We are heading towards an absolute crippling demographic wave of broke old people who didn't dutifully fill their 401(k)s at their minimum wage job and are going to depend upon the government to support them until they die in nursing homes. It's worse than that already! Young people aren't getting hired as seasonal Amazon warehouse staff because Amazon is aggressively recruiting senior citizens who lost their retirement savings in 2008 to live in campers and work themselves to death walking 15 miles a day as highly monitored human drones: https://www.wired.com/story/meet-camperforce-amazons-nomadic-retiree-army/ 
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Nov 2, 2017 10:15
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I've already been hearing that senior citizens are the new high schoolers in retail jobs.
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Nov 2, 2017 10:50
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Maybe there are good arguments on both sides. Like, you can't hold yourself up as some bootstraps superman if you got a $30k gift at an advantageous time. That said, success often means depriving yourself and working ridiculously long hours and everyone gets poo poo on in their teens and twenties and every generation believes their woes are the worst. Fine, Millennials have student loans and expensive housing, but Boomers had to endure Vietnam and stagflation. Generation X'ers had to deal with OK Cola and Surge disappearing and having to listen to people bitch about Bill Clinton all day long. Everyone has had to bear their burdens.
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Nov 2, 2017 12:18
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13k/month guy is WAY less well off, in terms of lifestyle, than most goons here are acting. Yeah that's an obviously excellent income but per person it's merely okay, and if you look at what he has and factor in that it's mostly shared across four or more people (or at least two adults) he's doing okay. E.g. sure he's maxing out his 401k, but that's gotta cover both him and spouse since she's not working. A single person making 50k/year living with roommates probably has a roughly equivalent lifestyle in terms of financial security, space, spending money, etc. Of course many families get by on way, way less, so he's certainly privileged compared to them. It's one of my pet peeves that many people don't realize the reason kids seem to be a lot cheaper than adults is just that parents accept a vastly lower standard of living. Cicero fucked around with this message at 12:44 on Nov 2, 2017 |
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Nov 2, 2017 12:38
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Bless that poor soul making 150k+ a year. 
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Nov 2, 2017 12:50
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Cicero posted:It's one of my pet peeves that many people don't realize the reason kids seem to be a lot cheaper than adults is just that parents accept a vastly lower standard of living. I had a co-worker who was certain she's make a profit off having a kid due to the child tax credit. And this was even before Bush doubled the credit.
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Nov 2, 2017 12:52
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Cicero posted:13k/month guy is WAY less well off, in terms of lifestyle, than most goons here are acting. Yeah that's an obviously excellent income but per person it's merely okay, and if you look at what he has and factor in that it's mostly shared across four or more people (or at least two adults) he's doing okay. E.g. sure he's maxing out his 401k, but that's gotta cover both him and spouse since she's not working. The problem isn't that we think he's earning an insane amount of money, it's that he is allocating his salary into all sorts of family stuff, paying for 5 kids, 2 wives, 2 cars, etc. etc. and then having the attitude of "gently caress TAXES, WHERE'S ALL MY MONEY??" Like beyond the private school / expensive cars / child support, I wouldn't even say he's making terrible decisions. He just seems to think he should be earning even more money, for...???? A boat-full of horses?
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Nov 2, 2017 12:55
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Cicero posted:13k/month guy is WAY less well off, in terms of lifestyle, than most goons here are acting. This'll be good. Cicero posted:
So far, we're in agreement. Cicero posted:
Since when do we make this kind of comparison when it comes to household income? Cicero posted:
I'd like to know your own situation so that I can try to grasp your perspective. Dude makes around 150k a year and his kids are all in private schools and his wife doesn't have to work and they are saving for retirement and they have a house and at least one reliable car. He's doing superbly compared to a significant portion of the US population. Cicero posted:
Forgive me if I don't shed any tears for him on this point. I'm sure that if he's making 150k a year now then he'll be on significantly more than that 10 or 20 years from now and these years of 401k-induced poverty will be a blessedly forgotten memory. Cicero posted:A single person making 50k/year living with roommates probably has a roughly equivalent lifestyle in terms of financial security, space, spending money, etc. Are you serious. You think a single person making 50k and having to live with roommates is going to be as satisfied with their lifestyle as a father living in his own house with his own (plus another) family. Have you shared a house as an adult? How long would you keep doing it for? Cicero posted:Of course many families get by on way, way less, so he's certainly privileged compared to them. Not "many", "most". Most families get by, or struggle to get by, on way way less. Dude has privilege and financial security coming out the wazoo and still he thinks "poo poo I've only got enough for two decent hobbies after the entirety of my needs and my families needs and our future needs are taken care of. Woe is me!" I'll get my tiny violin out of its case. Now you might be thinking "but hell, Weatherman, you're just a butthurt socialist snowflake who wants to tax me out of house and home just because you aren't making enough to upgrade to the latest iPhone every three months" and you'd be right on two of those five points, but the thing is, it's not people like you or Welloff McBuckFifty who should be paying more taxes, necessarily—it's the crowd making half a million or more in investment income and then reading that HENRY cartoon in their complimentary copy of the New York Times and thinking "finally, an artist who gets us and our plight!" We might sit here and argue about what six-figure number stating with 1 makes you middle class or upper class or whatnot until the cows come home, but the ones who really need to start paying their fair share for drawing on the benefits of a stable, educated, and healthy (well, in the meantime, anyway) society are those for whom 100k is a rounding error and "middle class" means "can't afford to buy a second yacht to keep in my third marina this year". After all, if 150k is an acceptable income for a family, they should be able to deal with tax rates dropping their own from 10 million to 2 million. As an extreme example. Weatherman fucked around with this message at 13:01 on Nov 2, 2017 |
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Nov 2, 2017 12:58
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I hope I can be burdened with all that comes with $150k/year one day.
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Nov 2, 2017 13:13
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Moneyball posted:Bless that poor soul making 150k+ a year.
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Nov 2, 2017 13:18
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Cicero posted:Yes, this is what I'm talking about. He has a very high salary, which goes to...supporting a bunch of other people. Which is fine and obviously his choice, not shedding any tears here. But he's hardly living it up. His actual lifestyle sounds definitively middle-class. Do you think millionaires who live like middle class people are middle class? Because they exist.
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Nov 2, 2017 13:20
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Drunk Tomato posted:The problem isn't that we think he's earning an insane amount of money, it's that he is allocating his salary into all sorts of family stuff, paying for 5 kids, 2 wives, 2 cars, etc. etc. and then having the attitude of "gently caress TAXES, WHERE'S ALL MY MONEY??" Like beyond the private school / expensive cars / child support, I wouldn't even say he's making terrible decisions. He just seems to think he should be earning even more money, for...???? A boat-full of horses?
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Nov 2, 2017 13:25
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NUKES CURE NORKS posted:Do you think millionaires who live like middle class people are middle class? Because they exist. Warren Buffett being a prime example. Oh no, his salary is only 100k and he lives in a modest house in Omaha! Hell, my boss earns more and lives bigger than that, so he must be better off!  There's a big difference between living a middle-class existence because you choose to (and because you and your children and their children will be able to do the same for several hundred years) and living a middle-class existence because you've worked seventy hours a week and forgone every single minor luxury for your entire adult life so that your kids have the chance to continue doing so.
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Nov 2, 2017 13:29
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He looks well off and he is well off. There's no question he is doing drat fine and while he's not ostentatious, he is able to live his life on his terms without worry. But if you're his cousin and you need $5k fast, he's not going to be able to help you. Which means he isn't rich. Because being rich is being the relative who can loan cousins $5k.
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Nov 2, 2017 13:29
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Weatherman posted:This'll be good. The funny thing about your mention of socialism is that the high costs of a family is exactly why social democratic countries subsidize the poo poo out of kids, both directly and indirectly, in ways that people in the US don't benefit from. Dude probably wouldn't need a private school in a place with better public education. Health insurance costs would be nil. Wouldn't need to spend as much on a car (or cars). Wouldn't need to really save for a bunch of kids' future college. Heck, in Germany they just hand you extra money each month for having kids.
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Nov 2, 2017 13:30
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NUKES CURE NORKS posted:Do you think millionaires who live like middle class people are middle class? Because they exist.
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Nov 2, 2017 13:32
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quote:Since when do we make this kind of comparison when it comes to household income?
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Nov 2, 2017 13:35
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Cicero posted:College ain't cheap, and he has potentially five kids to support for that. woe is me, my children might have to get a summer job and possibly a loan if their private schooling doesn't get them into a good college on a full scholarship
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Nov 2, 2017 13:35
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Photex posted:woe is me, my children might have to get a summer job and possibly a loan if their private schooling doesn't get them into a good college on a full scholarship
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Nov 2, 2017 13:37
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