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Bloody Pom
Jun 5, 2011



I've seen some mods that add buildings/modules that convert large chunks of unity upkeep into other resources, but I feel like whatever Wiz has in mind would be considerably more interesting than just turning X into Y.

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Demiurge4
Aug 10, 2011

Treat unity like monarch points.

3 DONG HORSE
May 22, 2008

I'd like to thank Satan for everything he's done for this organization


How come nobody ever scouts the enemy fleet composition before engaging? That's like strategy 101 :psyduck:

Dire Lemming
Jan 19, 2016
If you don't coddle Nazis flat Earthers then you're literally as bad as them.

3 DONG HORSE posted:

How come nobody ever scouts the enemy fleet composition before engaging? That's like strategy 101 :psyduck:

Because fleet composition hardly matters, the only major factors are PD vs missiles and strike craft and the fact that having more large ships means you stay at full power for longer.

But even before that:
1. If you can scout the enemy and refit your entire fleet to counter it you're probably spending more time at war than you need to
2. If you're far enough behind the enemy that you have to specifically counter their fleet you're better off never actually engaging their main fleet and using multiple smaller fleets to invade many planets at once.

Baron Porkface
Jan 22, 2007


My game is slowing to a crawl is there anything I can do about it?

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

Baron Porkface posted:

My game is slowing to a crawl is there anything I can do about it?

Play 150 star maps :(

Baron Porkface
Jan 22, 2007


When do paradoxextra stellaris streams happen?

Fututor Magnus
Feb 22, 2016

by FactsAreUseless

Gamerofthegame posted:

what

it's still stellaris my dude it's a mediocre game at best

it's popular enough that paradox should be obligated to improve it, and i think they will with their updates. if not, then the sequel to stellaris will be a lot better, for sure.

Fututor Magnus
Feb 22, 2016

by FactsAreUseless

MilkmanLuke posted:

New people. I highly suggest making a few empires with fun themes (even ones you might not want to play yourself) and set therm to always spawn. Familiar faces are good for galactic rivalries, grudges, and buddy action across play throughs.

also, make copies of all the preset species and set them to always spawn.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

Dire Lemming posted:

Because fleet composition hardly matters, the only major factors are PD vs missiles and strike craft and the fact that having more large ships means you stay at full power for longer.

But even before that:
1. If you can scout the enemy and refit your entire fleet to counter it you're probably spending more time at war than you need to
2. If you're far enough behind the enemy that you have to specifically counter their fleet you're better off never actually engaging their main fleet and using multiple smaller fleets to invade many planets at once.

Also how do you scout fleets in the base game if they won't let you in their borders? You don't have a lot of options for long range sensors in default stellaris.

gowb
Apr 14, 2005

OwlFancier posted:

Also how do you scout fleets in the base game if they won't let you in their borders? You don't have a lot of options for long range sensors in default stellaris.

Trade a live sensor link with one of their allies or a neighbor that's at war with them. Barring that I think your best hope is to hold back your fleet until they send one of theirs in and do a quick refit when you can.

Promethium
Dec 31, 2009
Dinosaur Gum
Each type of AI personality has a preferred weapon type, for example Slaving Despots like to run missiles, so you can make a pretty good guess even without any sensor data.

Something I noticed with bad AI fleet tactics is that they will not try very hard to protect their transport ships. Often the transport fleet will lag behind their main attack fleet, most noticeably with Warp FTL where they might lag by months, and if you can snipe their first wave of transports they seem to be completely lost on what to do. There's no concept of abandoning a bombardment to get the armies in place safely (AI transports can follow fleets, but I've never seen the AI give the reverse order).

gowb
Apr 14, 2005

God dammit I hate this game, I think "okay let me finish this war and I'll go to bed" and then it's 230 am and I have a massive new vassal

Two questions before I sleep, why did someone say earlier you should put shields on small ships and armor on big ones? And what is the diff between flak and PD, I assume flak kills strike craft and PD missiles?

Aethernet
Jan 28, 2009

This is the Captain...

Our glorious political masters have, in their wisdom, decided to form an alliance with a rag-tag bunch of freedom fighters right when the Federation has us at a tactical disadvantage. Unsurprisingly, this has resulted in the Feds firing on our vessels...

Damn you Huxley!

Grimey Drawer

gowb posted:

God dammit I hate this game, I think "okay let me finish this war and I'll go to bed" and then it's 230 am and I have a massive new vassal

Two questions before I sleep, why did someone say earlier you should put shields on small ships and armor on big ones? And what is the diff between flak and PD, I assume flak kills strike craft and PD missiles?

Armour provides much more coverage on larger ships - armour on a corvette will increase its survivability less than a shield. Flak is more accurate but low damage and PD is less accurate but higher damage. I think the idea is that flak is meant to be more effective at killing fighters, but in practice all PD seems to be better in 1.8. All flak used to be king. This is not science, though, just my experience.

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

OwlFancier posted:

Also how do you scout fleets in the base game if they won't let you in their borders? You don't have a lot of options for long range sensors in default stellaris.

Another way of scouting enemy fleets is using pirates and other poo poo as honey traps: Leave 1-2 around, and the AI will send out their fleet to clear them sometimes. Then presto, you can observe their fleet in the act!

Surprise Giraffe
Apr 30, 2007
1 Lunar Road
Moon crater
The Moon
Year 2420 or something and no crisis. It ia getting very boring around here. Thank god Ive got a sentry array to build!

Poil
Mar 17, 2007

If splitting up fleets is going to be the new thing the UI will probably need to be improved to work with it. You need to easily be able to send newly constructed ships to reinforce one particular fleet without a lot of excessive clicking and more importantly it needs to be easier to select your fleets. Currently they get drowned out as the outliner lists every freaking 1 military ship fleet that's heading to join up with a bigger force. Reinforcement ships like that should not show up in the outliner at all, unless they suddenly lose their order and become idle.


Libluini posted:

Another way of scouting enemy fleets is using pirates and other poo poo as honey traps: Leave 1-2 around, and the AI will send out their fleet to clear them sometimes. Then presto, you can observe their fleet in the act!
That's extremely situational and only works if there actually is something like that between your borders (not to mention you have to be lucky to spot when they engage). I have NONE of those things near a stinky hive I want to kill. I have not the slightest hint of what they are using and the only way to find out is to declare war and see what their doomstack-fleet has when it shows up. Since its late game it would also take ages to refit my ships with complete new weapon and shield/armor loadouts.

Poil fucked around with this message at 09:44 on Nov 2, 2017

Aethernet
Jan 28, 2009

This is the Captain...

Our glorious political masters have, in their wisdom, decided to form an alliance with a rag-tag bunch of freedom fighters right when the Federation has us at a tactical disadvantage. Unsurprisingly, this has resulted in the Feds firing on our vessels...

Damn you Huxley!

Grimey Drawer

Surprise Giraffe posted:

Year 2420 or something and no crisis. It ia getting very boring around here. Thank god Ive got a sentry array to build!

I really don't understand Wiz's thinking in pushing back the start date. I haven't actually reached a crisis since 1.8, as the game is normally effectively over well before 2400.

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

Aethernet posted:

I really don't understand Wiz's thinking in pushing back the start date. I haven't actually reached a crisis since 1.8, as the game is normally effectively over well before 2400.
I think it's because megastructures appear so late and people kept complaining so they pushed back the endgame to make them show up? Which doesn't really address the core issue. Makes it worse kind of.

Aethernet
Jan 28, 2009

This is the Captain...

Our glorious political masters have, in their wisdom, decided to form an alliance with a rag-tag bunch of freedom fighters right when the Federation has us at a tactical disadvantage. Unsurprisingly, this has resulted in the Feds firing on our vessels...

Damn you Huxley!

Grimey Drawer

Splicer posted:

I think it's because megastructures appear so late and people kept complaining so they pushed back the endgame to make them show up? Which doesn't really address the core issue. Makes it worse kind of.

Yeah. To slow down the game you'd need to increase research costs and make colonisation harder. Hopefully the changes in 1.9 will make crises align with game evolution more readily - which rather begs the question as to why crises were changed now.

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!

Anticheese posted:

Old-school Master of Orion had the gates too.

So did MOO2!

Talkie Toaster
Jan 23, 2006
May contain carcinogens
Market research for y'all:
I've figured out how to more-or-less do tile-based gene modding/robomodding. Basically just adding a 'Smart Modification' trait that then gets replaced by Agrarian/Industrious/Thrifty(/Propaganda Bot) based on whatever building the pop is working. The problem is, deciding how to manage those pops who either already have the trait, or are on a tile with no buff trait. Which of these would people prefer:

  • No Change
    The trait removes itself, leaving the pops unmodified. You can then apply whatever you want to them later.
    +: Simple, straightforward, gives the player maximum control.
    -: The 'unmodified' pops were included in the cost to perform the project. That could be months or years worth of Society research that ended up not changing anything.

  • Backstop List
    The trait is replaced by Conservationist (if applicable), or Talented, or Quick Learners, or...
    +: Least effort for the player. One trait, that will always have a positive effect.
    -: The desirability of each trait will vary wildly by playstyle. For example, adding Talented to a slave species is a bit pointless. There's no single backstop list.

  • Smart Modification Options
    Instead of a single 'Smart Modification' trait, there's a bunch - 'Smart Modification - Talented', 'Smart Modification - Conservationist' etc. They specify what trait will be added to the species if the food/minerals/energy traits aren't appropriate.
    +: Gives players control over what the backstop trait is.
    -: Not that obvious, lots of clutter, doesn't support modded-in traits.

Playstation 4
Apr 25, 2014
Unlockable Ben

Talkie Toaster posted:

Market research for y'all:
I've figured out how to more-or-less do tile-based gene modding/robomodding. Basically just adding a 'Smart Modification' trait that then gets replaced by Agrarian/Industrious/Thrifty(/Propaganda Bot) based on whatever building the pop is working. The problem is, deciding how to manage those pops who either already have the trait, or are on a tile with no buff trait. Which of these would people prefer:

  • No Change
    The trait removes itself, leaving the pops unmodified. You can then apply whatever you want to them later.
    +: Simple, straightforward, gives the player maximum control.
    -: The 'unmodified' pops were included in the cost to perform the project. That could be months or years worth of Society research that ended up not changing anything.

  • Backstop List
    The trait is replaced by Conservationist (if applicable), or Talented, or Quick Learners, or...
    +: Least effort for the player. One trait, that will always have a positive effect.
    -: The desirability of each trait will vary wildly by playstyle. For example, adding Talented to a slave species is a bit pointless. There's no single backstop list.

  • Smart Modification Options
    Instead of a single 'Smart Modification' trait, there's a bunch - 'Smart Modification - Talented', 'Smart Modification - Conservationist' etc. They specify what trait will be added to the species if the food/minerals/energy traits aren't appropriate.
    +: Gives players control over what the backstop trait is.
    -: Not that obvious, lots of clutter, doesn't support modded-in traits.

Percentile refund, perhaps?

Have the trait vanish and give 25-30 society research per pop

Could be an extra backstop if pops have cons/tal already

kaffo
Jun 20, 2017

If it's broken, it's probably my fault

Talkie Toaster posted:

Market research for y'all:
I've figured out how to more-or-less do tile-based gene modding/robomodding. Basically just adding a 'Smart Modification' trait that then gets replaced by Agrarian/Industrious/Thrifty(/Propaganda Bot) based on whatever building the pop is working. The problem is, deciding how to manage those pops who either already have the trait, or are on a tile with no buff trait. Which of these would people prefer:

  • No Change
    The trait removes itself, leaving the pops unmodified. You can then apply whatever you want to them later.
    +: Simple, straightforward, gives the player maximum control.
    -: The 'unmodified' pops were included in the cost to perform the project. That could be months or years worth of Society research that ended up not changing anything.

  • Backstop List
    The trait is replaced by Conservationist (if applicable), or Talented, or Quick Learners, or...
    +: Least effort for the player. One trait, that will always have a positive effect.
    -: The desirability of each trait will vary wildly by playstyle. For example, adding Talented to a slave species is a bit pointless. There's no single backstop list.

  • Smart Modification Options
    Instead of a single 'Smart Modification' trait, there's a bunch - 'Smart Modification - Talented', 'Smart Modification - Conservationist' etc. They specify what trait will be added to the species if the food/minerals/energy traits aren't appropriate.
    +: Gives players control over what the backstop trait is.
    -: Not that obvious, lots of clutter, doesn't support modded-in traits.

Wow, I used to play the crap out of your Fallout:NV mods, you were a bit of a modding hero for me back in the day although I never piped up on the forums or anything at the time, but I was always on the lookout for your stuff so it's awesome to see you're still doing cool stuff dude

As for your question, personally I'd lean towards the latter two if you can't get rid of the potentially massive timesink of useless research
I think the backstop list option could work fine as long as traits are picked in a semi-sensible way, like Conservationist will always be useful.
I can see the issues with the last option, although as a power user I'd probably prefer it so I could tweak stuff myself, which is why I think the backstop list might be the best generic solution

...Then again you've gotta be a bit of a power user nerd to actually care enough to download a mod which smart manages traits on a tile by tile bases anyway so maybe the last option is the correct one

gowb
Apr 14, 2005

Aethernet posted:

Armour provides much more coverage on larger ships - armour on a corvette will increase its survivability less than a shield. Flak is more accurate but low damage and PD is less accurate but higher damage. I think the idea is that flak is meant to be more effective at killing fighters, but in practice all PD seems to be better in 1.8. All flak used to be king. This is not science, though, just my experience.

What do you mean by coverage? It covers more of the hull? Didn't realize that was taken into account

Shugojin
Sep 6, 2007

THE TAIL THAT BURNS TWICE AS BRIGHT...


gowb posted:

What do you mean by coverage? It covers more of the hull? Didn't realize that was taken into account

Nah, just that on big ships you can get the %damage reduction high enough to get way more effective HP, which isn't possible on smaller ships.

Truga
May 4, 2014
Lipstick Apathy
Naked battleships start with like 30% damage reduction from hull armour, so adding 50% on top of that (they also have the slots to fairly easily do this) brings you up to 80%, which is half-decent.

Filling all the slots you can on a cruiser won't even bring it much past 50% and for smaller ships it's far worse. Then you consider many weapon types have 30% or more armour penetration, and it's just poo poo. Meanwhile shields recharge at a staggering speed in combat, especially in later phases of the game where a single battle can take a few months to finish.

I normally don't even research tier 1 armour until my fleet has an appreciable amount of battleships, since auto-complete is actually pretty good for bottom slots when it can only fill them with shield capacitors, reactors and shields. :v:

Wiz
May 16, 2004

Nap Ghost

Aethernet posted:

I really don't understand Wiz's thinking in pushing back the start date. I haven't actually reached a crisis since 1.8, as the game is normally effectively over well before 2400.

Most people's games don't end before 2400, and people having impossible to beat crises dropped on them in 2350 was a huge issue when 1.8 came out. A slider was outside the scope of a hotfix, but will be added in the future.

Aethernet
Jan 28, 2009

This is the Captain...

Our glorious political masters have, in their wisdom, decided to form an alliance with a rag-tag bunch of freedom fighters right when the Federation has us at a tactical disadvantage. Unsurprisingly, this has resulted in the Feds firing on our vessels...

Damn you Huxley!

Grimey Drawer

Wiz posted:

Most people's games don't end before 2400, and people having impossible to beat crises dropped on them in 2350 was a huge issue when 1.8 came out. A slider was outside the scope of a hotfix, but will be added in the future.

A slider will be ace - thank you.

Edit: just seen this from you on official forums:

official wiz posted:

In the long term, I want to rework victory conditions into something more akin to empire ambitions, like your empire aiming to colonize another galaxy.

I'm assuming extragalactic colonisation is not coming in 1.9, or is literally everything about to change?

Aethernet fucked around with this message at 12:35 on Nov 2, 2017

Baron Porkface
Jan 22, 2007


I hope non-repeated empire color generation is in the future because I just ended a game divided between 5 massive orange empires.

Baron Porkface fucked around with this message at 12:44 on Nov 2, 2017

Truga
May 4, 2014
Lipstick Apathy

Aethernet posted:

I'm assuming extragalactic colonisation is not coming in 1.9, or is literally everything about to change?

I'm assuming this is like the spaceship alpha centauri project in civilization, but with expensive megastructure colony ship instead.

Baron Porkface posted:

I hope non-reapeated empire color generation is in the future because I just ended a game divided between 5 massive orange empires.

https://twitter.com/Martin_Anward/status/918476755861688320

gowb
Apr 14, 2005

Wormholes only confirmed, get f*cked hyperailures

Baron Porkface
Jan 22, 2007


Truga posted:

I'm assuming this is like the spaceship alpha centauri project in civilization, but with expensive megastructure colony ship instead.


that doesn't show anything about more diverse background colors

LordMune
Nov 21, 2006

Helim needed to be invisible.
hope y'all are ready to have your ability to respect anything, and your ability to feel human torn away

Aethernet
Jan 28, 2009

This is the Captain...

Our glorious political masters have, in their wisdom, decided to form an alliance with a rag-tag bunch of freedom fighters right when the Federation has us at a tactical disadvantage. Unsurprisingly, this has resulted in the Feds firing on our vessels...

Damn you Huxley!

Grimey Drawer

LordMune posted:

hope y'all are ready to have your ability to respect anything, and your ability to feel human torn away

:f5:

binge crotching
Apr 2, 2010

All this talk about ai controlled fleets makes me want a dlc that turns Stellaris into Majesty. Let me put bounties on systems I want to be visited, planets I want invaded, and so on. Fleets would wander wherever they want, and then if I want them to hit a specific spot I would just set a large bounty there and the admirals would beeline for it.

Truga
May 4, 2014
Lipstick Apathy

Baron Porkface posted:

that doesn't show anything about more diverse background colors

it shows that borders are going to be distinct unless empires have the same both primary and secondary colour. not perfect, but still vastly better than the current situation.

Ormi
Feb 7, 2005

B-E-H-A-V-E
Arrest us!
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/stellaris-dev-diary-92-ftl-rework-and-galactic-terrain.1052958/ spoilers: all ftl is now Ludicrous Speed

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
"Consolidating FTL from the current three types down into a primarily hyperlane-based game, with more advanced forms of FTL unlocked through technology."

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canepazzo
May 29, 2006



Oh boy this thread gon' be good.

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