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Since we're on the subject, what do you guys think of the NBC video Sargon was whining about?
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Nov 2, 2017 02:08
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The video is pretty lame. The core message that GamerGate and the alt right often draw from the same pool of misanthropic shut ins who spend a lot of time online is valid. But it doesn't go terribly into detail about how exactly Trump supporters and the alt right (not entirely the same people in both) use the same tactics as GamerGate did other than Discord servers were used to help plan that Rise Of The Right rally and the guy who ran over a protester also was a "My mom is a total bitch!" type of gamer.
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Nov 2, 2017 07:56
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Rugoberta Munchu posted:The video is pretty lame. The core message that GamerGate and the alt right often draw from the same pool of misanthropic shut ins who spend a lot of time online is valid. But it doesn't go terribly into detail about how exactly Trump supporters and the alt right (not entirely the same people in both) use the same tactics as GamerGate did other than Discord servers were used to help plan that Rise Of The Right rally and the guy who ran over a protester also was a "My mom is a total bitch!" type of gamer. Which vid is this? Because you could do a fairly convincing essay on how the tactics and psychology are very similar. Such as "refusing to acknowledge any wrong doing" "relying on existing power structures to either break in your favour, or to actively ignore the problem" and "constantly shifting what the problem is in order to encompass a wider and narrower group as required"
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Nov 2, 2017 08:52
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This heavily downvoted thing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN1P6UA7pvM
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Nov 2, 2017 09:53
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Rugoberta Munchu posted:This heavily downvoted thing. The close up of people holding controllers is a pet peeve of mine. Like its the only way to make the audience understand that this is about video games.
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Nov 2, 2017 10:40
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It’s a pretty straightforward connecting dots but not getting too much into it video. It’s not surprising because games are very popular with the same demographic that the alt-right courts, but the prevailing underdog self-image and persecution complex that catches a lot of gamers in that demographic makes the transition from GamerGate to alt-right pretty smooth. Sure, sure, not all gamers, but there are a massive amount of them who use the relative anonymity of its platforms and consequence and moderation free voice chat to be total shitbags ‘ironically’. Try joining your average ‘PlayerUnknown’s Battlegrounds’ lobby for constant casual racism and sexism in voice chat. It’s not surprising that a non-trivial amount of this community are actually alt-right shitbags, and whether they’re just dipping their toes in the water, or getting out on the streets, they’re aiding this rise of a supremacist movement with their approval. And it doesn’t do the #notallgamers types much credit to complain about them portraying small details incorrectly, or generalising, because god drat if that’s not another card-carrying GamerGate/AltRight strategy, to tie people up with bullshit while dodging the real questions, in this case questions like ‘Is your community as toxic as a vat of poison?’
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Nov 2, 2017 11:28
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Maluco Marinero posted:It’s a pretty straightforward connecting dots but not getting too much into it video. It’s not surprising because games are very popular with the same demographic that the alt-right courts, but the prevailing underdog self-image and persecution complex that catches a lot of gamers in that demographic makes the transition from GamerGate to alt-right pretty smooth. Do you think there were always a ton of white boys who were that racist but felt they had to stay on a leash? I don’t know what to think.
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Nov 2, 2017 12:11
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Oh yeah, there definitely were. As a white boy myself, they'd happily open up to me with that poo poo if we were alone. They just assumed everyone who looked like them though like them. And given that they were always surprised when I disagreed, I assume they hadn't been proven wrong too often.
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Nov 2, 2017 12:33
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most people are racist it's just nowadays "racist" is only if you say the n word. everyone whining about nfl players kneeling is a racist.
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Nov 2, 2017 13:25
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https://twitter.com/PrisonPaul/status/925510012923006976 I can't tell what's real and what's parody any more
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Nov 2, 2017 13:52
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Groovelord Neato posted:most people are racist it's just nowadays "racist" is only if you say the n word. everyone whining about nfl players kneeling is a racist. Any time there's controversy over someone saying the n-word people come out in full force to argue that "it's just a word". Even that pro-player that got pissed at Overwatch and just screamed the word over and over for literally (and I do mean literally) 30 seconds straight had defenders saying "everyone says stupid stuff when they're angry" and that he's not a racist. The president said there were good people on both sides of Charlottesville when one side was Nazis and people defended that statement. I'm pretty sure you'd have to have be burning a cross in full KKK uniform actively telling a group of minorities (because with just one person it might be a coincidence and they're really just angry at them for reasons other than race, of course) to even be close to considered racist nowadays. I just had a light bulb moment that's probably obvious to everyone else. This whole narrative of "it's just a word" and "it's just a joke" other stupid notions is most likely pushed by white supremacists for useful idiots to spout off so they can blur the line as much as possible and normalize racism to the point that "moderates" will happily take any "I didn't mean it" excuse and give them the benefit of the doubt, among other reasons like just straight up normalizing racism. I mean, I kind of already knew all of that, but for some reason it all just clicked together. ChristopherRobin fucked around with this message at 14:13 on Nov 2, 2017 |
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Nov 2, 2017 14:07
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business hammocks posted:Do you think there were always a ton of white boys who were that racist but felt they had to stay on a leash? I don’t know what to think. Goon Danton posted:Oh yeah, there definitely were. As a white boy myself, they'd happily open up to me with that poo poo if we were alone. They just assumed everyone who looked like them though like them. And given that they were always surprised when I disagreed, I assume they hadn't been proven wrong too often. I was really into video games, as a white boy who's friends were 95% white, in the early 90's (my middle/high school years) and I didn't ever have this happen. Is it just coincidence (and the fact that I went to a very mixed race school) or did the racism not really start to bubble to the surface until FPS era of gaming?
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Nov 2, 2017 16:27
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Groovelord Neato posted:...everyone whining about nfl players kneeling is a racist. That's broad brushing, imo. There are folks who are anal about patriotism and think the National Anthem kneeling is inappropriate while simultaneously agreeing that there is a problem with how people of color are treated by cops.
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Nov 2, 2017 16:33
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I think it’s Console FPS where it really took off. PC gamers don’t talk nearly as much, while Consoles are some white kid trying to be edgy 24/7
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Nov 2, 2017 16:33
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fallenturtle posted:That's broad brushing, imo. There are folks who are anal about patriotism and think the National Anthem kneeling is inappropriate while simultaneously agreeing that there is a problem with how people of color are treated by cops. Show me these mythical people
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Nov 2, 2017 16:42
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JVNO posted:Show me these mythical people “Look I hate this Jim Crow stuff as much as anyone and wish the whole country could be as enlightened as we are here in Connecticut, but how does it help anything when that angry Dr. King gets so many of them together in one place? It’s just asking for trouble.”
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Nov 2, 2017 16:47
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fallenturtle posted:I was really into video games, as a white boy who's friends were 95% white, in the early 90's (my middle/high school years) and I didn't ever have this happen. Is it just coincidence (and the fact that I went to a very mixed race school) or did the racism not really start to bubble to the surface until FPS era of gaming?
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Nov 2, 2017 16:49
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Terrible Opinions posted:Blaming FPSs is the classic "jocks bad" reflex used by nerds to avoid self-critique. Don't fall into that trap. Oh, I'm not, I'm just curious of when it started becoming a thing. I don't think there is any one single source of this phenom but instead a combination of factors.
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Nov 2, 2017 17:04
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Fans posted:I think it’s Console FPS where it really took off. PC gamers don’t talk nearly as much, while Consoles are some white kid trying to be edgy 24/7 Yeah, Xbox Live really taking off in '06/'07 is when it really ramped up, I think. Every 360 came with a headset, so there was no barrier to anonymous voice chatting. It was mostly just teenage boys thinking "hey, nobody knows who I am, I can call people 'friend of the family' all I want! Ha ha, I'm such a troll!" And yeah, don't get me wrong, it's racist as gently caress, but most of the kids yelling it at one another while playing Gears of War were just trying to be edgy. Most of them pulled their heads out of their asses once they grew up a bit more. However, of course, some of those kids just kept on doing it, and grew up to be /pol/ shitheads that gamergate and the alt-right actively courted. It's like the wave of "get back in the kitchen"-style sexist jokes that were popular back in my high school days. Guys thought "well, I don't ACTUALLY mean it, so it's funny for the shock value!" instead of "hey, this is a sexist thing and I shouldn't say it". Nowadays, though, I'm pretty sure that Trump-era politics have made the masks come off. "I'm just saying it ironically" is just a smokescreen nowadays, not an excuse. If you hear that poo poo while playing, the person saying it knows exactly what they're saying. Terrible Opinions posted:Blaming FPSs is the classic "jocks bad" reflex used by nerds to avoid self-critique. Don't fall into that trap. I heard the most racist poo poo as a teenager while playing Uno with strangers over XBL.
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Nov 2, 2017 17:05
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It became a thing when folks became able to talk to each other while playing. Much easier to yell than type racial abuse.
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Nov 2, 2017 17:08
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fallenturtle posted:Oh, I'm not, I'm just curious of when it started becoming a thing. I don't think there is any one single source of this phenom but instead a combination of factors. 1) Games got really good, like hired-psychologists-and-behaviorists-good, at providing these hoops you gotta jump through to periodically get your shiny winning feeling in your reptile brain. So you've got a whole generation of young men raised on validation-providing skinner box power fantasies. This breeds entitlement. Why are things hard? Why do I have to grind at a real career for literal years before I level up? Why does all my equipment suck? Why isn't my life more like these games? 2) The internet finally hit the tipping point where just playing a video game with multiplayer exposes you to Extremely Online People, of whom there are, relatively speaking, a lot more nazis than most folks encounter in their day to day lives. And these nazis seem transgressive and edgy to 12 year olds raised on dry white toast. 3) Right wing billionaires have made a concerted effort since the early 80s to work their way into youth culture. For a long time, there were just well-funded college republican/college libertarian groups which served as the top of the funnel for right wing journalists, academics and politicians. You find your really weaselly state school freshman and raise him up into a GOP functionary. But now, they've decided to work on indoctrinating kids in whatever way they can at even earlier ages. Give it time: it will come out that Mercer money made its way to Minecraft livestreamers or something similar. But Gamergate was absolutely Mercer Money -> Bannon -> Milo, and they knew exactly what they wanted to do, and I would say they were pretty successful.
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Nov 2, 2017 17:14
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fallenturtle posted:That's broad brushing, imo. There are folks who are anal about patriotism and think the National Anthem kneeling is inappropriate while simultaneously agreeing that there is a problem with how people of color are treated by cops. nope.
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Nov 2, 2017 17:22
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Groovelord Neato posted:nope. I don't think he's going to acknowledge his 'white moderates' apologia.
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Nov 2, 2017 17:24
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fallenturtle posted:I was really into video games, as a white boy who's friends were 95% white, in the early 90's (my middle/high school years) and I didn't ever have this happen. Is it just coincidence (and the fact that I went to a very mixed race school) or did the racism not really start to bubble to the surface until FPS era of gaming? you probably weren't paying attention, i'm a white boy with white friends who played video games in the early 90's who went to a mixed race school and my neighborhood gamer buddies were definitely low key racists the main difference between then and now is that internal racism wasn't being as challenged back then as it is now. it's definitely en vogue for lovely white men to be performative racists to piss in the eye of society for whatever reason, when in the 90's that niche was filled by slicking your hair, wearing a trench coat, and talking about satanism, punk rock, and smoking weed at school where casual racism used to just be accepted without comment (among exclusively white groups, or white male peer groups) now it's a front and center question where people have to either be pro- or anti-racism, and the pro-racism types are far more likely to take it to an extreme also the amount of invective and trash talk a bunch of twelve year olds can muster in the family living room is a lot different from what an underemployed anonymous man can spit out over a microphone to strangers around the world Crunch Buttsteak posted:Yeah, Xbox Live really taking off in '06/'07 is when it really ramped up, I think. Every 360 came with a headset, so there was no barrier to anonymous voice chatting. It was mostly just teenage boys thinking "hey, nobody knows who I am, I can call people 'friend of the family' all I want! Ha ha, I'm such a troll!" this is why i appreciate overwatch, it minimizes the amount of contact you have with other players and makes it super easy to mute them another game i sometimes play, rising storm 2, is set in vietnam and it has two fatal flaws -the setting causes a bunch of idiots to endlessly parrot ching chong style slurs against vietnamese -the ui for muting and votekicking people is very poorly designed such that there are a few servers which i play on exclusively because they are zero tolerance for racism, and if those servers are unavailable i dont play the game. because i'm incredibly over listening to racists blather into microphones during my leisure time boner confessor fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Nov 2, 2017 |
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Nov 2, 2017 17:38
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JVNO posted:Show me these mythical people JVNO posted:I don't think he's going to acknowledge his 'white moderates' apologia. Since its an opinion, I don't have a list of people that I can just whip out and currently I'm working, so I'm going to have to circle back to this when I have more time.
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Nov 2, 2017 19:39
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fallenturtle posted:Since its an opinion, I don't have a list of people that I can just whip out and currently I'm working, so I'm going to have to circle back to this when I have more time. Saying "there are folks who are [something]" isn't stating an opinion, it's stating (what you believe to be) a fact.
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Nov 2, 2017 19:54
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Terrible Opinions posted:Blaming FPSs is the classic "jocks bad" reflex used by nerds to avoid self-critique. Don't fall into that trap. I think people who play CoD obsessively are giant nerds too, just more irritating than grogs. There is a specific thing about multiplayer FPS games with voice chat that seems to attract, or manufacture, the worst loving people.
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Nov 2, 2017 20:00
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OwlFancier posted:I think people who play CoD obsessively are giant nerds too, just more irritating than grogs. There is a specific thing about multiplayer FPS games with voice chat that seems to attract, or manufacture, the worst loving people. my bro have you heard of MOBAs or fighting games?
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Nov 2, 2017 20:03
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OwlFancier posted:I think people who play CoD obsessively are giant nerds too, just more irritating than grogs. There is a specific thing about multiplayer FPS games with voice chat that seems to attract, or manufacture, the worst loving people. The most toxic gaming communities I've seen are MOBAs, the time investment of up to an hour or more a match leads to some real loving hostility being expressed when a teammate fucks up.
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Nov 2, 2017 20:03
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boner confessor posted:i'm incredibly over listening to racists blather into microphones during my leisure time 
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Nov 2, 2017 20:03
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boner confessor posted:my bro have you heard of MOBAs or fighting games? I have never played a moba in my life, so no, actually. I know next to nothing about them. The last fighting game I played was I think tekken 3 when I had my playstation and no friends. I did play CoD 4 when it was new out and got relatively good at it, but even then there were a lot of knobheads on the server. I also cannot play team games because I get inordinately angry at my teammates all the time so I'm hardly immune to it, I just don't immediately jump to racial slurs.
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Nov 2, 2017 20:05
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boner confessor posted:my bro have you heard of MOBAs or fighting games? Fighting games have the usual assholes as anything does, but is also one of the most inclusive genres I've seen.
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Nov 2, 2017 20:09
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Looking more and more like Contra got played https://twitter.com/RealDorianDawes/status/926152918939643910
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Nov 2, 2017 20:14
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OwlFancier posted:I have never played a moba in my life, so no, actually. I know next to nothing about them. The last fighting game I played was I think tekken 3 when I had my playstation and no friends. I did play CoD 4 when it was new out and got relatively good at it, but even then there were a lot of knobheads on the server. dont get me wrong, FPS are riddled with assholes and cretins, but MOBAs and fighting games are way worse
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Nov 2, 2017 20:14
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Glazier posted:Looking more and more like Contra got played Why did Singal tweet out that piece again now? It's more than a year old and it seems like he just did it to piss people off
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Nov 2, 2017 20:17
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Glazier posted:Looking more and more like Contra got played They just have legitimate concerns!
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Nov 2, 2017 20:21
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Glazier posted:Looking more and more like Contra got played Meh, people get played sometimes. I'm not gonna throw Contra under the bus just because she decided to give someone the benefit of the doubt and got burned on it.
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Nov 2, 2017 20:22
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Yeah telling people they maybe didn't do great with a decision isn't damning them for all eternity.
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Nov 2, 2017 20:23
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OwlFancier posted:I think people who play CoD obsessively are giant nerds too, just more irritating than grogs. There is a specific thing about multiplayer FPS games with voice chat that seems to attract, or manufacture, the worst loving people. Yeah. Don’t kid yourself that this stuff hasn’t poisoned the whole tree and missed your branches. With the popularity means there’s diversity in every playerbase, but you can guarantee there’s an undercurrent of racism and sexism in nearly every gaming community. The explosion of popularity in the last two decades has been tilted towards 10-40 year old boys/men via marketing and self selecting culture, and grognards can get just as upset about ‘getting politics in ma vidya games’ as the jocks. You can pretty much guarantee that the sort of guy who think Sargon is a reasonable man probably ain’t no jock. The problem is unchallenged, unmoderated racism and sexism, and that is the way of things in games whether it’s single player, online multiplayer, massively multiplayer. All relatively successful games develop communities around them, and very few of them have any sort of code of conduct that would prevent this simmering under the surface. You can anecdotal your way out of believing it by relating to your own circle, but let’s be real, anyone who plays games with a real-time voice or text chat component has observed racism or sexism and done nothing about it, because at this point it’s a literal torrent of bullshit that would suck up all of your playtime to do so. But it’s necessary to start somewhere. Gaming is sick because society is sick, and if you’re willing to let it go unchallenged every single time, not even a word calling it out, well you might not be making it worse but you aren’t making it better either.
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Nov 2, 2017 20:24
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Who What Now posted:Meh, people get played sometimes. I'm not gonna throw Contra under the bus just because she decided to give someone the benefit of the doubt and got burned on it. Oh yeah, it's not her fault. Getting burned is part of life. aware of dog posted:Why did Singal tweet out that piece again now? It's more than a year old and it seems like he just did it to piss people off The best part is when people call him out for it by showing how the only retweets are transphobes, he uses Stefan Molyneux's catchphrase. Gynocentric Regime fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Nov 2, 2017 |
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Nov 2, 2017 20:31
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