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magnificent7 posted:edit: somebody explain me how the hell to do this without commas: I think number one is fine. If you want to avoid commas you could do this. quote:A dream like her—a lady who could easily win second or third at a beauty contest—stealing a kiss from an old dried-up sardine like me. The second one I would do as crabrock says and rewrite it into two or more sentences. quote:Each went on insisting the other was a spirit. Neither looked entirely of this realm if you catch my pitch—her with her filthy nails and green teeth; him with his eye sockets as empty as a bone-dry bird bath. If you must have only one sentence, then I think I would go with a full colon. quote:Each went on insisting the other was a spirit, and neither looked entirely of this realm if you catch my pitch: her with her filthy nails and green teeth, him with his eye sockets as empty as a bone-dry bird bath.
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Oct 23, 2017 19:40
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magnificent7 posted:Run-on sentences? Probably, but, but, but I feel like in first person, there's a rhythm that sells the character. Without those pauseable commas, it loses that magic. Run-on sentences can be great. Marlon James posted:From A Brief History of Seven Killings:
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Oct 23, 2017 19:43
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Phil Moscowitz posted:Or this: agree on all points
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Oct 23, 2017 19:43
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As a reader, I definitely want the second selection to be two sentences, as it conveys two distinct thoughts/sets of images:quote:Each went on insisting the other was a spirit, and neither looked entirely of this realm, if you catch my pitch. Her with The two (looking not of this realm) insisting that the other is a spirit is a complete thought, and directed toward the reader as such. The specifics of their appearance is the next thought, and their description should be separate. If it were being filmed, you would have (at least) two different shots: one establishing and one detailed. (I also cut the "her/his", which is a stylistic choice, but "her with her" and "him with his" feels crowded and my eye just skips to the concrete images of nails, teeth, and eyes anyway.)
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Oct 23, 2017 20:06
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tdome favours stripped down language because that avoids a lot of beginners mistakes, but if you want to get fancy just do it. there's a vast array of great literature that reads nothing like that. the only caution is to be sure you're doing it intentionally not just out of habit.
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Oct 23, 2017 20:18
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also bone-dry bird bath is an amazing phrase.
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Oct 23, 2017 20:19
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magnificent7 posted:Each went on insisting the other was a spirit, and neither looked entirely of this realm if you catch my pitch; her with her filthy nails and green teeth, him with his eye sockets as empty as a bone-dry bird bath. What's with all this two sentence bullshit. Go for the gold. THREE SENTENCES. quote:Each went on insisting the other was a spirit--and neither looked entirely of this realm, if you catch my pitch. Her with her filthy nails and green teeth. Him with his eye sockets as empty as a bone-dry bird bath. Also em dash, because why not. Haha, just kidding there are a couple good reasons not to use an em dash here, but I still think it's a good idea. Oh man, I could do this forever. quote:Each went on insisting the other was a spirit, and neither looked entirely of this realm if you catch my pitch: Her with her filthy nails and green teeth! Him with his eye sockets as empty as a bone-dry bird bath! quote:Each went on insisting the other was a spirit (and neither looked entirely of this realm if you catch my pitch). Her: filthy nails and green teeth. Him: eye sockets as empty as a bone-dry bird bath. quote:Each went on insisting the other was a spirit, and neither looked entirely of this realm if you catch my pitch. Her with her nails (filthy) and teeth (green); him with his eye sockets (empty as a bone-dry bird bath). Dr. Kloctopussy fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Oct 23, 2017 |
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Oct 23, 2017 20:21
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sebmojo posted:tdome favours stripped down language because that avoids a lot of beginners mistakes, but if you want to get fancy just do it. there's a vast array of great literature that reads nothing like that. the only caution is to be sure you're doing it intentionally not just out of habit. This I am aware of yes. I tend to get a lot looser when writing in a voice (first person). Helps sell the narrator. Don't you creeps have some judgements to post. THAT'S RIGHT NOT A QUESTION MARK NOWHERE.
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Oct 23, 2017 20:59
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quote:"You are a spirit," she insisted, her nails filthy like a kid who just played in the dirt, her teeth green like when you don't brush your teeth for three or four days. "I insist."
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Oct 23, 2017 21:00
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Phil Moscowitz posted:Both looked like something riding the vapors of a wet fart, if you catch my drift You just removed any hint of a Wal-Mart regular from my writing. Also: quote:... if you catch my drift. There's a lot of sayings in the story that are deliberately off. "Catch my pitch" being one of them. AND GREAT. NOW I'M SECOND GUESSING ALL THAT poo poo AS WELL NOW. Do it once, it's a mistake. Do it twice, call it jazz. magnificent7 fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Oct 23, 2017 |
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Oct 23, 2017 21:02
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magnificent7 posted:I love commas and hate that the crits have made me doubt my comma love. Err for being the person who called out some bad commas in your recent story: If one person says it, maybe listen to it but it doesn't really matter. If 3 people say it, then listen. I haven't seen too many other people complain about your comma usage in crits. You do you, man. If the commas add to the piece add them if they make it hard to read and understand you may want to remove them.
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Oct 23, 2017 21:08
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Exmond posted:Err for being the person who called out some bad commas in your recent story: My proofreader of my one published novel told me I had a comma problem back in 2015. And nope, your crit was dead on when i went back and read my story. But now I'm in that super-fuzzy area between comma hate and comma love. That's right I'm a COMMA CHAMELEON oh the horror.
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Oct 23, 2017 21:14
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I like "if you catch my pitch," for whatever that's worth. If the book is totally full of stuff like that, though, it would probably just come off as annoying gimmick. But really, how many times would you actually say "catch my drift" in a book???? Hopefully no more than twice???
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Oct 23, 2017 21:22
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Dr. Kloctopussy posted:I like "if you catch my pitch," for whatever that's worth. If the book is totally full of stuff like that, though, it would probably just come off as annoying gimmick. But really, how many times would you actually say "catch my drift" in a book???? Hopefully no more than twice???
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Oct 23, 2017 21:23
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Can someone explain to me why I lost this last TD? Apart from some awful punctuation issues, and a weird phrases or two - I shouldn't have posted it that early, I've learned my lesson, - I actually quite like my little story. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3803906&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=90#post477466445 Simbyotic fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Oct 24, 2017 |
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Oct 24, 2017 15:04
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Simbyotic posted:Can someone explain to me why I lost this last TD? Apart from some awful punctuation issues, and a weird phrases or two - I shouldn't have posted it that early, I've learned my lesson, - I actually quite like my little story. After my 6th loss/DM in a row I have to be missing something. The feedback from TD has been good, but apparently not good enough :P. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3803906&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=90#post477625336 I'm leaning towards the ever so hard to improve and even harder to explain "Prose". Edit: And if at all possible, could we aim the advice against "how to not get a DM :P". Any of the previous judges want to chime in? Exmond fucked around with this message at 15:27 on Oct 24, 2017 |
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Oct 24, 2017 15:23
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Exmond posted:After my 6th loss/DM in a row I have to be missing something. The feedback from TD has been good, but apparently not good enough :P. Part of it is a lot of errors (I added a crit over in TD just now). Those things are a giant red target on the rest of your story. If you can't get the basics, like quote:"Come with me if you wan't to live," he said. It goes like this: QUOTATION MARK + WORDS + COMMA + CLOSE QUOTE + HE SAID + PERIOD. Took me forever to get that right there. Only time I'm baffled now are questions or exclamations like "He said what?" He said. Or "He said what? he said. When there's easy mistakes like that, the rest of your tale better be amazing to dodge a DM. Only in this way: Judge thinks, "holy poo poo author can't even get THIS right?" I've judged and I've tried to separate my nitpicky grammar opinions from the actual storytelling, but it's not easy because the story keeps getting stopped by simple mistakes, which ALWAYS pulls your reader out of the story each time. Think of the grandpa and the kid in the Princess Bride, stopping the story every time there's a grammar booboo. You did a good job getting your narrator's voice, but there's some clunky chunks that stood out to me: “Let the girl go.” I yelled, reminding myself why I was here. You start a paragraph with this, I'm guessing your MC's pulling himself back into the moment, having been distracted by the explosion in the previous paragraph, but unfortunately, the sentence kind of comes out as you're about to say something like "saving lives and kicking asses" or "getting this little girl safe" but instead you say this: A domestic dispute turned bad plus one punk on too many drugs to list equalled a hostage situation. That's your MCs job, it's not why you're here, if I'm reading the tale in the voice of a over-the-top 70's vice cop type narration. I didn't bring this one up in my crit because it is absolutely subjective and I might be the only one who feels like that... ALSO, remember, I'm already focusing on the tiny grammar mistakes that keep pulling me out of your tale. ALSO and this is really worth reminding yourself every time you get the DM: YOUR story is being judged against all those others. When it's a great week, the judges are reading story after story enjoying it. When it's a bad week, it's a BAD WEEK for judges and the tendency to grade on a turd, I mean grade on a curve will bite you in the rear end if you're one of the ones making the mistakes that were common that week. [OKAY OKAY don't IGNORE A CRIT EVER, but just kind of ask if they're not getting it? or are you not conveying it] The one crit I've seen of my tale ripped my story to shreds for using bad similes, which was actually VERY intentional on my part; I recently got way into weird/bizarro fiction. So - while the crit gvae me a 4/10, the fact that they summed it up with: Overall: 4/10. Dull and weirdly written kind of felt good - mission accomplished for weird/bizarro fiction. It's a style that ain't for everybody, like Sebmojo says a few posts above this post, directly in response to my question about my weird simile or analogy or whatever they're called. DM's are a good thing if you really digest them. Beg for as many crits as you can get; and prepare to work on your story every single day for a week. That's probably the ONLY reason I got this HM. I wrote the story last Tuesday and then did SOMETHING with it every day after that, up to Sunday where I spent another two hours on it. magnificent7 fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Oct 24, 2017 |
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Oct 24, 2017 16:04
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Simbyotic posted:Can someone explain to me why I lost this last TD? Apart from some awful punctuation issues, and a weird phrases or two - I shouldn't have posted it that early, I've learned my lesson, - I actually quite like my little story. I kind of feel bad critting your story since it's the blind leading the blind here. But let's go. I think the biggest problem you have is the ending and your general flow of the story. Here is my summary of your story: Little john, who is running away from home, encounters an amusement park. It has people in it and these people are talking about the amusement park. Little John tries to go into an attraction, after remembering a few things from his past and family, and is denied. He is denied because his parents aren't with him. He leaves and is then beaten by his parents. Also, the amusement park disappears. The story has no conflict and is incredibly passive. The only thing the protagonist does is pick which attraction he will go to and even that is denied. Next the ending is barely hinted at. I think you tried to leave hints in your story but they still didn't foretell it well enough. The ending is also a twist ending (Again you may have hinted at it but...) and also is a "Then X happened". There are better ways to have a boy beaten (Trust me I'm an expert), you could have ended with a threat of a beating "Found you Son," his dad said while unbuckling his belt "This is gonna hurt me more than it's gonna hurt you." The ending comes out of nowhere and is summed up in a matter-of-fact way that it baffles the reader in its absurdity. Your previous story had conflict and an emotional tether. Guy wants to protect his mom, gamblers want her bones. The ending also didn't come out of left field. magnificent7 posted:Part of it is a lot of errors (I added a crit over in TD just now). Those things are a giant red target on the rest of your story. If you can't get the basics, like HAH gently caress my life. I went through and searched for every comma and added a period. I completely missed dialogue punctuation in my last story. Arrrgh punctuation is my downfall. Does Grammarly premium catch that stuff?
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Oct 24, 2017 17:05
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Exmond, I am pretty familiar with all your stories at this point so I have some macro level advice (and I think I've told you this before): You need to sort of back off from the wacky pew pew laser explosion heist dragon fights and focus on making your characters feel like people. Any time your story leans even a little bit close to having some meaningful characterization, you seem to end up burying it in explosions or stock conflicts that are more fit for Saturday morning cartoons. This is why I keep telling you to kind of shift gears and do something tight and focused on real-seeming characters. I think part of you even tries to do this. If I go over all your existing stories and strip away the wacky/fantastical elements, we get:
Those are all fine enough premises IMO. The problem is that they get buried in cartoonish, over-the-top antics and lasers and hawkmen. That tends to give short fiction a flat, zany feeling, in my experience. I think, to some extent, you can get readers to overlook basic mechanical errors if you trick their brains into caring about your characters like people. That's not to say that you shouldn't strive for good proofreading, but like...some commas and stuff are NOT the reason your stories are getting mentioned negatively, at least IMO. I think it's more the fact that you always have to use so many words on explaining magic, monsters, reminding us that your cop is using LASERS PEW PEW, weird bee curses, and so on. I really, really REALLY want you to write a stripped-down story about two humans having a meaningful exchange. No scifi/fantasy stuff, just people. Borrow from real life, if you have to. Shamelessly steal a moment that made you, a human being (i assume), feel something. The punctuation and etc we can work on, and WILL get better with repetition (I already see improvements in your writing itself), but you're going to have to actively think about how to bring more groundedness and humanity to your stories IMO. Simbyotic posted:Can someone explain to me why I lost this last TD? Apart from some awful punctuation issues, and a weird phrases or two - I shouldn't have posted it that early, I've learned my lesson, - I actually quite like my little story. I'll try to do a crit when I have time, but the short answer is usually: Greenness. If you haven't written a lot of fiction, it's going to show. Writing more will give us more opportunities to deduce what you're loving up regularly.
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Oct 24, 2017 18:16
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Simbyotic posted:Can someone explain to me why I lost this last TD? Apart from some awful punctuation issues, and a weird phrases or two - I shouldn't have posted it that early, I've learned my lesson, - I actually quite like my little story. A critique for you Simbyotic posted:The Amazing Victor Steele Amusement Park Coming to the end of this, my big question is: what's the point? That's a rhetorical question, don't answer it. But here's your plot: Boy wants to run away from home. Finds amusement park in forest, wants to go on a ride. Can't because his parents aren't there. Leaves and gets beaten by his parents. When I say 'what's the point' I'm not saying that the story's got to have Something to Say or a moral or whatever. I'm asking why is this worth telling? What am I supposed to get out of this? A story's point could be rollicking action or an intriguing character or an shred of raw emotion, but I'm not getting any of that from this. It feels almost like a morality tale with no moral at the end besides, I dunno, 'don't run away?' If this was supposed to be tragic, there's no catharsis, no chance for a release. If it's supposed to be dramatic, the ending comes out of left field and stops any sort of dramatic tension. If it's supposed to be funny, I don't get the joke.
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Oct 24, 2017 20:06
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For real though watch your apostrophes.
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Simbyotic posted:Can someone explain to me why I lost this last TD? Apart from some awful punctuation issues, and a weird phrases or two - I shouldn't have posted it that early, I've learned my lesson, - I actually quite like my little story. left you some feedback in TD https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3803906&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=93#post477701157
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Oct 24, 2017 20:36
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Exmond posted:After my 6th loss/DM in a row I have to be missing something. The feedback from TD has been good, but apparently not good enough :P. While I don't actually know how much you read, I'm 95% sure that you need to read more. Unless you already read a whole lot, that's the only advice I'm gonna give you at this point. (This is a 100% sincere and non-dismissive post)
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Oct 24, 2017 23:28
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Exmond posted:After my 6th loss/DM in a row I have to be missing something. The feedback from TD has been good, but apparently not good enough :P. haven't read your stuff but saw your post in TD with your goals. here is my advice: A good thing to do to get back to some basics is to "write like hemmingway." What you're gonna do here is write very short, easy-to-read sentences. You're going to cut out almost all adjectives and adverbs, and instead you're going to focus on nouns and verbs. You're going to write about human interaction: two characters that have a connection. Do these things, and it'll be easier to focus on writing something that doesn't suck. You don't need big ideas or fancy words and your writing can still be powerful. I'll crit this very small portion of your story with this in mind. quote:The punk ignored my instructions and ducked behind a again, focus on verbs and nouns, make them sing. say poo poo that matters. get in this guy's head. You gotta really feel this character. You're not trying to emulate poo poo you seen on TV or a movie, you're trying to boil down something bordering on truth from the stew of feces that is life. quote:The punk scoffed at my order. He yanked the crying girl by her ponytail and they disappeared behind a rusted, animatronic Brontosaurus. I stopped to catch my breath, holding my hip. The irony of a broken, ancient dinosaur getting in the way was not lost on me. I sucked down a lungful of air and chased after them. A small part of my brain nagged at me that I didn’t have to be here. crabrock fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Oct 25, 2017 |
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Oct 25, 2017 00:28
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i'm the scrambling punk
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Oct 25, 2017 07:38
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Thanks to everyone who crit'd my piece, I have a much better understanding now of what didn't work. I will (at least try to) do better this week 
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Oct 25, 2017 09:10
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Thank you for all the crits. It's a lot to take in (still) and seems to change every week but hopefully I'll do better.
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Oct 25, 2017 15:19
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If any of you guys are particularly bored, could I ask for some feedback on my general writing style in https://pastebin.com/PSJTgQFQ ? Unnecessary purple prose is a recurring problem of mine, so I've been working on keeping it to what's minimally necessary to adequately set the scene, but the whole bit feels like it has a kind of weird cadence where it speeds through dialogue, screeches to a halt for a long descriptive block, then speeds up when people start talking again.
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Oct 27, 2017 18:43
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Omi no Kami posted:If any of you guys are particularly bored, could I ask for some feedback on my general writing style in https://pastebin.com/PSJTgQFQ ? Unnecessary purple prose is a recurring problem of mine, so I've been working on keeping it to what's minimally necessary to adequately set the scene, but the whole bit feels like it has a kind of weird cadence where it speeds through dialogue, screeches to a halt for a long descriptive block, then speeds up when people start talking again. Ohh I liked your story! (I love all urban fantasy) It reads like an intro to a novel. Overall I really enjoyed it and I would like to read more! One thing about your story content: You mention a rolodex and say it is her version of speed-dial. It seems like an odd thing to point out and unless it's foreshadowing I'd move it. Your prose was good, It flowed and I wafted down the river that was your words. I only hit a few sharp rocks at the end: Your bit at the end if very odd. You are in current tense and then you lead up with "Veronica read him the address and hastily made her way down to the rusted beater she'd been driving ever since she made detective - an accomplishment that, in retrospect, she was less and less convinced had been a good idea." This is a weird sentence. Read can be past and present tense and the way my inner voice reads this sentence it sounds like we use the past tense of read and it gets very confusing (much like this sentence). Then you add in the hyphen and the sentence implodes on itself. I had to go over the sentence again to get what you were saying. This is super personal preference, but I dislike your commas in the second to last sentence. It reads like a parathentical comma to me.
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Oct 31, 2017 05:43
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Thanks for the feedback! I think you're absolutely right that the big paragraph near the end basically needs to be exploded and reassembled... I was trying to hit three beats at once (get Fred moving, establish that she has a Crappy Detective Car to round out the trope, get her to the scene), and I probably should've taken a few extra beats just to ease the transition and allow for less crammed-together junk in one place. The rolodex thing was definitely an afterthought too- I was trying to establish that holy cow, urban police stations are cruddy and poorly funded, but I could've probably accomplished the same thing by scattering some more busted-up linoleum flooring and lights that don't work throughout the scene, which would also help add some ambiance. This is a structural aside, but is there a hard and fast rule regarding starting sentences with quotations? I know new speakers always require a new line in English, but I somehow have it in my head that any paragraph which involves quoted speech must start with it, and only recently realized that some perfectly decent authors ignore that, and that I can't find any corroborating evidence of this rule.
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Nov 1, 2017 14:16
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There's no rule about where to put your attribution for a sentence. You can do it before, after, in the middle of the sentence, or even not at all if you're feeling cheeky and you think the reader can follow along anyway. It's worth noting that I've also seen books where they broke the 'new paragraph for every speaker' rule. (Not that they were great books to begin with.) Still, any rule in writing is one that you can break if breaking it improves what you're trying to convey.
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Nov 1, 2017 16:08
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Almost done with my revision/rewrite. So far 95226 words 355 pages It's taken a fair bit longer due to more IRL nonsense getting in the way and writing around and editing original portions from my first draft. Just writing without worrying about editing beyond the most obvious of stuff goes a lot faster. Still getting this done in about under a month so I'm pretty proud of that. I think it'll be a lot stronger than what I had before.
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Nov 2, 2017 07:57
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What do you do for a living where you're able to write a 95k word novel in less than a month? I know a few professional authors irl and even they don't churn novels out that quick, much less revisions/rewrites. Basically I'm jealous
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Nov 2, 2017 19:48
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Cpt. Mahatma Gandhi posted:What do you do for a living where you're able to write a 95k word novel in less than a month? I know a few professional authors irl and even they don't churn novels out that quick, much less revisions/rewrites. I'm my grandmother's caretaker basically. Doesn't leave as much free time as you'd think but it's more than a lot of people get. I also prewrite almost every scene in my head before sitting down to actually write, so a lot of it is just getting poo poo actually written. I'm not honestly sure how much I've written explicitly for this revision. I'd say maybe half or more is all new material, and almost all of the original stuff has some kind of tweaking or editing or reworking done to it, but the original draft was around 87 K and I wrote that in 4 weeks. I highly doubt I'd be able to keep up this pace with a different book but this is one I've wanted to tell for a while.
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Nov 2, 2017 20:18
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I managed 30k in one week once but my job is like eight hours of actual work per week. It's not a high-paying job, I'm just underemployed.
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Nov 2, 2017 20:40
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How many of you include romance subplots in your novels? They're usually things I find boring in books and movies if the genre is not romance (which I don't like, either); for me romance subplots often feel analogous to plot armor in application. For instance, a general action movie with one male and one female protagonist often results in them hooking up and there's no tension that it won't really happen in spite of how it's initially presented.
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Nov 2, 2017 22:25
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The Sean posted:How many of you include romance subplots in your novels? They're usually things I find boring in books and movies if the genre is not romance (which I don't like, either); for me romance subplots often feel analogous to plot armor in application. For instance, a general action movie with one male and one female protagonist often results in them hooking up and there's no tension that it won't really happen in spite of how it's initially presented. I mean, I've only written the one novel so far But yeah I've got Something like a romance going on. The thing is, if you're not writing a romance novel, any romance subplots should just be a natural part of the character. Designated love interests are awful. Something I'm attempting is leaving a very vague thing where one character is very much into the idea of a relationship, while the other is more distant. I want to engage the readership with this and get them invested in why their relationship could be a good or bad thing on both sides.
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Nov 2, 2017 22:57
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The Sean posted:How many of you include romance subplots in your novels? They're usually things I find boring in books and movies if the genre is not romance (which I don't like, either); for me romance subplots often feel analogous to plot armor in application. For instance, a general action movie with one male and one female protagonist often results in them hooking up and there's no tension that it won't really happen in spite of how it's initially presented. Make it interesting then. Have them hook up around the 25% mark instead of the end, and see how the rest of the story plays out. Do they end up breaking up again? Do they have to overcome some personal struggles to make it work? It's perfectly valid to use the romance subplot as way to round out your characters if you don't go with the cliché of "protagonist wins, gets the girl, they live happily ever after" If you think romance subplots feel like plot armor in application, play with expectations and make it interesting by having the romance abruptly broken off or toxic or what have you. Or just omit it, if it'd get in the way of the story.
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Nov 2, 2017 23:09
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Got caught up in real life while going through the last few chapters of my rewrite The time off gave me some space to rethink something I had considered so now I'm doing a bigger rewrite on what happened there. Dunno how long or how short this will make the book now but it'll be for the best.
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Nov 7, 2017 18:42
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Just a quick question: Can anyone tell me what the progymnasmata section of "Classical Rhetoric for the Modern Student, 4th Edition" is like, perhaps with a small excerpt? I've only been able to find previews/excerpts from the third edition online which doesn't have it, and I can't afford the book at the moment. I've been looking into classical practices and the progymnasmata for a while to give me some practice and confidence with forms, and I'm interested in what Corbett has to say on the matter. Any information will be invaluable!
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Nov 7, 2017 23:00
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Scialen posted:Just a quick question: Can anyone tell me what the progymnasmata section of "Classical Rhetoric for the Modern Student, 4th Edition" is like, perhaps with a small excerpt? I've only been able to find previews/excerpts from the third edition online which doesn't have it, and I can't afford the book at the moment. iirc Corbett is strongly in favour of gymnasmata, though it's been a long time since I've read it lol
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Nov 8, 2017 07:24
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