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Josef bugman posted:Except it won't. They will just build new tribes. That is what we, as humans, do. Again, I must stress that atheism is not on top of the list of priorities or a salvation of man. But I think its a real strike off the bucket list. If you could cross out 1 out of 100 problems and reduce it down to 99 that is a win no matter how you look at it. Besides, magic, come on. For our integrity as a species.
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Nov 3, 2017 01:35
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Genocyber posted:It doesn't matter because there is no argument for it. Puberty blockers do not have adverse effects but undergoing the wrong puberty demonstrably does, therefore treating any kid that might be trans as trans is the only sensible procedure. Anyone who argues otherwise is almost certainly transphobic.
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Nov 3, 2017 01:35
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Yeah when I think "tribalism" probably the last thing on the list is religion.Terrible Opinions posted:If puberty blockers have no adverse effects could someone who just isn't interested in having kids take them forever and forgo puberty entirely? Like legitimately is that an option for the youth of tomorrow? I don't know if anybody's tried taking them that long but I wouldn't want to be the first to test it.
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Nov 3, 2017 01:35
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OwlFancier posted:Yeah when I think "tribalism" probably the last thing on the list is religion. I live in Norway, but even I heard that lovely God and guns song. If redneck identity is not religiously related tribalism then I need to have a couple of things explained to me.
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Nov 3, 2017 01:36
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Midig posted:I live in Norway, but even I heard that lovely God and guns song. If redneck identity is not religiously related tribalism then I need to have a couple of things explained to me. I don't know what song you're talking about but where I live tribalism generally means adopting a political party line for everything.
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Nov 3, 2017 01:38
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OwlFancier posted:I don't know what song you're talking about but where I live tribalism generally means adopting a political party line for everything. I think of it like that, but also cultural aspects added in. Anything people use to make a us vs. them mentality.
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Nov 3, 2017 01:42
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Terrible Opinions posted:If puberty blockers have no adverse effects could someone who just isn't interested in having kids take them forever and forgo puberty entirely? Like legitimately is that an option for the youth of tomorrow? When I said no adverse effects I was referring to more short-term use because that's what was relevant. I'm not terribly well-informed about long-term use like that but I think it might be okay??? I know there's at least one intersex condition that results in no puberty naturally and I don't think it's life threatening but don't quote me on that.
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Nov 3, 2017 01:43
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Midig posted:Besides, magic, come on. For our integrity as a species. Why does it hurt to believe in magic. i can believe in Justice and it has as much proof. I guess that, from a purely personal perspective, I would prefer a bit more of human weirdness to be maintained. Midig posted:If redneck identity is not religiously related tribalism then I need to have a couple of things explained to me. "Redneck" generally has a lot of different meanings, the fact of being religious is generally not that high from what I can tell. In general the emphasis seems to be a bit more on "opposition to rules imposed from above whilst our way of life has just as much validity and, due to our lower economic circumstances is more 'true'"
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Nov 3, 2017 01:43
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Midig posted:I am sure that weakening the hold of tribalism for billions will more than make up for the mistakes of personalities that are not even relevant anymore. Don't oversell it too much, now.
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Nov 3, 2017 01:48
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Genocyber posted:When I said no adverse effects I was referring to more short-term use because that's what was relevant. I'm not terribly well-informed about long-term use like that but I think it might be okay??? I know there's at least one intersex condition that results in no puberty naturally and I don't think it's life threatening but don't quote me on that.
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Nov 3, 2017 01:49
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Josef bugman posted:Why does it hurt to believe in magic. I can believe in Justice and it has as much proof. Well, belief in crystal healing might not hurt people in all circumstances, but it does not help either. Its just kind of there, taking up space on the bucket list. TIme better allocated to solving the other 99 problems. Besides, arguing that abstract ideas are as true as the belief that you can shoot fireballs out of your hands will be needlessly pedantic.
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Nov 3, 2017 01:50
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Midig posted:Well, belief in crystal healing might not hurt people in all circumstances, but it does not help either. Its just kind of there, taking up space on the bucket list. TIme better allocated to solving the other 99 problems. Besides, arguing that abstract ideas are as true as the belief that you can shoot fireballs out of your hands will be needlessly pedantic. That is fair.
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Nov 3, 2017 01:52
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Terrible Opinions posted:If puberty blockers have no adverse effects could someone who just isn't interested in having kids take them forever and forgo puberty entirely? Like legitimately is that an option for the youth of tomorrow? It’s easier to just learn how to put on a condom. Birth control prescriptions are also way cheaper.
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Nov 3, 2017 01:54
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Josef bugman posted:Why does it hurt to believe in magic. i can believe in Justice and it has as much proof. There is also a lot of solid leftism in some forms of redneck identity, especially since one of the origins for redneck is the red handkerchiefs the strikers at Blair Mountain wore.
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Nov 3, 2017 01:56
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Terrible Opinions posted:If puberty blockers have no adverse effects could someone who just isn't interested in having kids take them forever and forgo puberty entirely? Like legitimately is that an option for the youth of tomorrow? They have no adverse effects, when used appropriately. They've been used in patients with precocious puberty for years. They aren't good when taken in perpetuity, no, because there are issues with skeletal development in the absence of sex hormones. I mean, your question is a little ridiculous. People use medical treatments for an intended purpose. You're proposing something that falls outside of its intended purpose. For a period approaching 5-ish years, they're adequately safe. Indefinite use isn't their intended use, and as such, there's not really a body of research on the effects of that.
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Nov 3, 2017 01:58
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Jesse Singal's schtick is basically alarmist "political correctness has gone too far," crap, aimed at trans activism, but in an indirect way. He doesn't present the activism side, or really address the context. He sells one side in an alarmist but vague way. It's for people who don't like trans activism but don't want to talk about it either, they just want it to be proven wrong and go away. He's had trans women talk to him calmly and rationally, but he doesn't seem to listen, or quote them in his articles. He blocks them on twitter. He acts like a trolly little douche on twitter too, showing up to be nice to people who have been called out by trans women. He doesn't present the issues or discussion, he just lets the aggrieved parties affect their poses of wounded noble innocents. So like, basically, he operates as a political enemy of trans activism, a propagandist. There's no reason to think he engages with trans women in a way that's about good faith, and lots of reasons to think the opposite. I think Contrapoints has handled this pretty poorly.
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Nov 3, 2017 06:38
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Didn't see anybody post this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGi24uO63TE These two do go great together. They did a hangout on Garrett's channel once back before Contra was quite as popular. (I miss Garrett. I miss a lot of Leftist YouTubers in fact.)
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Nov 3, 2017 10:14
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aware of dog posted:Why did Singal tweet out that piece again now? It's more than a year old and it seems like he just did it to piss people off If we assume Signal is being deliberately a little poo poo, he was nice to Contra so she'd defend (at least talking to) him then posts it to make people mad at her by proxy. Basically sowing divisions similar to "Just asking questions"
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Nov 3, 2017 11:15
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Religion is very convenient for justifying atrocities. Especially when a god is involved. The world wouldn't be perfect, but I do think it would be a better place if theists were in the minority. The fact that some atheist celebrities turned out to be idiots or bigots hasn't changed my mind on this.
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Nov 3, 2017 13:03
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Stormgale posted:If we assume Signal is being deliberately a little poo poo, he was nice to Contra so she'd defend (at least talking to) him then posts it to make people mad at her by proxy. "Here look at this good trans woman, being centrist and not about trans rights and idpol, who has no idea who/what I am." "Oh no, look how she is being attacked and maligned by some mean trans activists for talking to me! What nasty people." "Hey look, what do you know, here's more nasty things trans activists have done that I happen to already have written about."
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Nov 3, 2017 13:16
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nickmeister posted:Religion is very convenient for justifying atrocities. Especially when a god is involved. The world wouldn't be perfect, but I do think it would be a better place if theists were in the minority. The fact that some atheist celebrities turned out to be idiots or bigots hasn't changed my mind on this. I'd just put it that Atheism is not neccesarily a more moral/ethical position than Faith. If Singal is just a bomb thrower, which he appears to be, then I do hope this serves as a useful thing, but also I think that mocking and sending really quite hurtful things to someone who is doing a lot of stuff to help the situation seems a tad gross. That and, well, allow people to gently caress up but don't get all "stabby" with them. Josef bugman fucked around with this message at 13:47 on Nov 3, 2017 |
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Nov 3, 2017 13:36
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Hello, everyone, I'm here just to ask questions.
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Nov 3, 2017 13:38
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ArfJason posted:Hello, everyone, I'm here just to ask questions. I think there is a difference between it, but what sort of questions?
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Nov 3, 2017 14:10
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Josef bugman posted:I'd just put it that Atheism is not neccesarily a more moral/ethical position than Faith More ethical position of itself? Hardly, plenty of people are and remain absolute garbage with theism or without. What it does do, is removes a convienient excuse for unethical or monstrous actions.
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Nov 3, 2017 14:29
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ArfJason posted:Hello, everyone, I'm here just to ask questions. is it...the jewish...question...
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Nov 3, 2017 14:37
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Playstation 4 posted:More ethical position of itself? Hardly, plenty of people are and remain absolute garbage with theism or without. What it does do, is removes a convienient excuse for unethical or monstrous actions.
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Nov 3, 2017 15:20
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While I think PS4's argument is wrong, the Cult of Reason isn't the best counter example, since it was explicitly designed to be an atheist religion to placate the idiot mob who they thought wouldn't accept actual rationality on its own. Personally I'd point to the fact that warmaking didn't slow down at all after everyone agreed to stop using religious justifications as a casus belli. Secularization does remove a convenient excuse for unethical actions, but when there's still a hundred other excuses to pick from, that doesn't really matter all that much.
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Nov 3, 2017 15:35
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At least Robespierre was a true believer in the moral superiority of atheism, and the actions of the infernal columns were more or less atheism motivated genocide.
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Nov 3, 2017 15:50
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Groovelord Neato posted:is it...the jewish...question... Coincidentally, the Jewish Answer is also 42.
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Nov 3, 2017 16:18
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fallenturtle posted:Coincidentally, the Jewish Answer is also 42. I thought it was 600-something?
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Nov 3, 2017 16:40
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aware of dog posted:
This is great stuff and I will look into it, but seriously, how closely did you read the article? The "hairy little vermin" claim is given a lot of attention, and in the end, even the person who made the claim agreed that it couldn't have happened at the clinic. edit: The fact that even this claim is still be tossed out is one more thing that points to what I bitched about earlier, about how if you can't even agree on a baseline level of "this happened" vs. "this did not happen" that even the person who originally made the claim now disagrees with you on, then how the gently caress do we even have discussions that approach the rational. selec fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Nov 3, 2017 |
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Nov 3, 2017 17:08
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ClancyEverafter posted:This is great stuff and I will look into it, but seriously, how closely did you read the article? The "hairy little vermin" claim is given a lot of attention, and in the end, even the person who made the claim agreed that it couldn't have happened at the clinic. Phone posting so I don't have it in front of me, but I missed that, apologies. But regardless, that's nowhere near the main point of my argument and if you honestly think that a minor oversight like completely destroys my argument then I don't know what to tell you. I made a mistake, yes: take that out and tell me if it changes anything.
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Nov 3, 2017 17:24
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aware of dog posted:Phone posting so I don't have it in front of me, but I missed that, apologies. But regardless, that's nowhere near the main point of my argument and if you honestly think that a minor oversight like completely destroys my argument then I don't know what to tell you. I made a mistake, yes: take that out and tell me if it changes anything. No, I just think it’s exemplary of the kind of reading people do now. Scanning for outrage. We all do it. The internet broke us. Edit: It does demonstrate the shoddiness of the document that was used to shut down the clinic though.
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Nov 3, 2017 17:40
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ClancyEverafter posted:It does demonstrate the shoddiness of the document that was used to shut down the clinic though. NO IT DOESN'T. They interviewed former patients and wrote down what they said. That's what they are supposed to do. The report speaks pretty highly of Dr. Zucker in some regards, but it didn't change their conclusions. You've skated clear past the core of my argument that was in direct response to yours (that worries about desistance are unfounded and the clinic's methods were not based on evidentiary standards of the time) to nitpick, and you want to lecture about "rational argument." Either way this is super off-topic now. I'm done. aware of dog fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Nov 3, 2017 |
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Nov 3, 2017 17:48
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ClancyEverafter posted:No, I just think it’s exemplary of the kind of reading people do now. Scanning for outrage. Yes, all outrage is overblown and fake. You are the one true sane moderate on the internet. It's you, you are the star. 
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Nov 3, 2017 18:37
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ClancyEverafter posted:No, I just think it’s exemplary of the kind of reading people do now. Scanning for outrage. We all do it. The internet broke us. God drat are you a loving moron
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Nov 3, 2017 18:50
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Well obviously those transpeople were lying because it's either that or I'm an apologist for bellends and that can't be true because I'm acting in good faith!
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Nov 3, 2017 19:20
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WampaLord posted:God drat are you a loving moron I'm gonna real think hard about this post. Surely it's me, not the people who can't even get basic facts straight about a story we're all supposed to have read, who is the moron. I mean, I'm a moron for other reasons, but this? This is too much. I have been gutted, found out.
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Nov 3, 2017 21:00
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ClancyEverafter posted:I'm gonna real think hard about this post. Surely it's me, not the people who can't even get basic facts straight about a story we're all supposed to have read, who is the moron. are you hoping to clear your name before the high court of goons or something or what is your end game here
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Nov 3, 2017 21:01
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We're about two posts away from the "internet comedy forum" defense, I'd wager.
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Nov 3, 2017 21:18
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