|
ProfessorProf posted:Incidentally, I promise I'll only shill this once, but I won't be getting a lot of work done on the LP this weekend on account of I'll be running a 26-hour gaming stream for Extra Life. Please consider making a donation, all proceeds going to a local children's hospital. What's your twitch channel?
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2017 01:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 03:04 |
|
|
idonotlikepeas posted:What's your twitch channel? Over here.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2017 02:01
|
|
|
    BGM: Moonlit Night At some point, each table had started competing to see which could solve it first.  "Bernkastel. Haven't Ange and Erika arrived yet?" "...They should've been here by now. Wanna make a bet on who arrives first?" "I can understand Erika being late, but what about Ange? Just what kind of pit did you toss her into this time?" "How rude. She's sitting on a sofa sipping tea." "Hopefully the sort of tea you drink suits Ange's tastes." "Hahaha, good point." "How rude. That tea would suit anyone's tastes. Erika would even lick the last drop of my tea from the bottom of a miso soup pot." "...How does miso soup come into this picture...?" "Now that you mention her, Erika...! This will be a long awaited reunion." "Yeah, come to think of it. Can't wait to see how long it'll take her to solve Bernkastel's game." "...This sort of game is what that kid's best at. She'll probably read it from start to finish three times, then just say the answer right away." "Probably. I look forward to seeing her give the correct answer immediately with that smug look on her face." "Come now, this is Erika we're talking about. She'll probably pull out some twisted logic and say that it was possible for someone other than Battler's family." "Good point. In fact, I'd like to hear her proud, twisted logic even more than the right answer."Apparently, Battler and Beato were looking forward to their reunion with Erika. They had already dueled with Erika in two separate games. But now, there was no distinction between foes and allies. They truly wanted to welcome her to this 'party after the show' as a friend...  "...What is?" "You know. It's surprising that you'd let Ange go this easily."Making sure that Battler and the others couldn't see her face, Lambdadelta sniggered. "Is it really so surprising...?" "Of course it is. I thought that, being you, you'd torture Battler with one tough puzzle after another before releasing her, or that you'd at least try to give Ange some weird ideas and have her turn the game around in the end." "..." "And I thought I knew you better than anyone else in the world. So embarrassing that I was wrong." "...I'm sure it is. But don't worry. You obviously do know me better than anyone else in the world." "Y, yeah, of course! After all, I love, adore, and understand you more than any other person in the universe☆"Lambdadelta was flustered by Bernkastel's apparently friendly words, which were very rare, coming from her.  "Oh, she's back?! Great. So, is she okay...?" "It seems that she was soaked by the rain, but Kumasawa is bringing her a towel now."When Battler heard this, he breathed a sigh of relief. Then, he turned to face Bernkastel, showing her a forced smile as though apologizing for still suspecting her just a little. Bernkastel showed no reaction, and simply continued to wear a blank expression with a slight smile.  "Ange-sama has returned."  "Battler! Ange's back...!" "Ange...! Wonderful. I was worried." "..."She stared at Battler as he dashed towards her with a relieved smile. Ange's expression seemed somehow indifferent. "...That Battler. Looks like he thought I had you hanging by chains in a cave or something." "N, no, no. I didn't think you'd go that far." "...I was just having some tea at the house of one of Bernkastel's friends. It was delicious." "Were there any dried plums or miso soup in it...?!" "...Why would there be?"As Ange spoke bluntly, she walked right past her brother and exchanged a few whispered words with Bernkastel.  "What is it, Battler?" "Huh? Oh, nothing... Nothing at all."If he said that he was lonely because his little sister was being so cold, Beato would either laugh at him or scratch him. After all, Ange was a girl at that age. She might be in a bad mood for reasons that a boy like him couldn't understand. Taking note of this, and having satisfied himself that Ange was okay, he made to walk away.  "Battler. Ange is calling for you." "Huh? Oh, sorry." BGM: None  "...I wasn't really ignoring you. What's going on with you, anyway? You've looked like you were in a bad mood for a while now." "I imagine Bernkastel gave her something strange to drink and pretended it was just a rare sort of black tea. Hyahhyahhya!" "...I have no business with you. Back off for a bit, would you? I want to talk to Onii-chan alone." "Come, come, I may not look it, but I am the wife of the territory lord...! When it comes to Battler, I am far more-" By now, Battler realized that Ange's issue was more than just a slight bad mood. Beato puffed out her cheeks as though she wanted to say something more. However, she just let it out with a sigh and walked away... "..." "...Is this okay?" "It is. After all, this game is between me and you, right? I'm the player. You're the Game Master. No matter how many pieces get between us, in the end, it's still a direct battle between you and me." "...Well, it's true that I'm the Game Master, but it's not like I'm fighting against you or anything. This final game was held so you could be invited to the Rokkenjima of 1986." "Games are played to decide who wins and who loses. It's not called a game unless you have foes and allies. Don't try to trick me." "What... are you talking about, all of a sudden...?" BGM: Infant Queen Bee "This has all been a farce you created, hasn't it?! You're using this sentimental tale to dodge the issue and leave me confused! You're trying to chase me out into a lonely future with nothing but this cheap happiness as a parting gift! There's just one thing I've been after since the beginning! What happened on Rokkenjima that day?!" "And the only answer you gave me was this game! This sentimental party of illusions!! It's obvious how you're going to try and answer my question now! I want the truth!! And you aren't going to tell me!" "Ange, listen, you've got it wrong-" "Don't try and trick me!! This game is the final fight between me and you! I want the truth of that day! And you're trying to hide that truth behind an illusion!! It's exactly the same! The setup is no different than those fights between you and Beato! Pretty soon, I was going to be chased out of the gameboard with everything still vague and fuzzy because of you! Well, sorry, but I've already figured out that this game is a battle. Don't think you'll trick me so easily anymore!"Ange's shout tore apart the peaceful atmosphere. The family members and fantasy residents gulped and watched the scene, wondering what was going on... Beato tried to run up to Battler, but he motioned for her to stay back. "...What is it you want?" "There's only one thing I've ever wanted! The truth of Rokkenjima in 1986. That's all I'm looking for!!" "The truth is sealed within the cat box. It can't be reached by someone outside the cat box like you." "Is that why you're trying to trick me with this sentimental illusion?!" "Yes, this is an illusion. However, I wanted you to feel this fun atmosphere, the harmony within your family. It's not about what happened on that island that day. I wanted you to remember the warmth of these family conferences, a warmth you forgot about." "That's just an illusion you're trying to impose on me! I reject that and deny it completely!!" "The truth of 1986 doesn't exist. The cat box is empty inside. You're looking for something that isn't there." "...Hmph. I won't be tricked anymore. The truth of that day does exist. It was written down by the sole survivor and preserved to this very day!"Battler's expression faltered for just an instant, and Ange didn't miss it. So he was hiding it after all. Onii-chan... has been hiding the Book of the Single Truth from me...!!   "A, Ange-chan, you have to listen to me...! Everything I wrote in that diary is nonsense, so it doesn't..." "There's no point trying to deceive me. It's already been proven in red, that your diary has the truth of that day written in it!" "...A, absurd. How could anyone but Battler, the Game Master, use the red truth...?!" "...It's Auaurora, isn't it?" "That's right. The Book of the Single Truth exists in 1998, the world of the future. Who else could perform the crucial role of confirming its contents with the red truth...?" "I heard everything from Bernkastel!! I've been fooled by you long enough!! I don't want some sentimental illusion. I want the real truth!!"  Video: The Last BeatriceBGM: Golden Nocturne A cyclone rose up around Ange. It was a golden swirl of gold butterflies. Just like the Golden Witch, Beatrice...  The cyclone of gold broke apart, and as gold leaves scattered across the room, the final witch, who would inherit Beatrice's name in the future, appeared.  "ANGE... Beatrice..." "You are the Golden and Endless Witch. I'm not! I'm the Witch of Gold and Truth! No illusion can stand in my way!! Yes, this is the end of Onii-chan's boring party! Now it's time for my party to start!! I've even readied a game to liven things up! You're up, Aunt Eva." "Huh...?!"When Ange snapped her fingers, she vanished along with the swirl of gold butterflies. In her place in the middle of the cyclone, a girl wearing a dress appeared, bowing modestly...  "You...!" "You're... EVA...!!" "The sole survivor of Rokkenjima. And the witch of the future, the Golden and Endless Witch from 1986 to 1998!! In the world of the future, Battler-kun's sentimental illusion is more fragile than a flake of snow on a lake! Okay, let's have some fun!! Come, try to remember, 'all of you'. Remember 'your' endless theory-making!!"When EVA held her hand to the heavens, light gathered there and took the form of a bottle. Yes, a bottle. A glass bottle with no label. There was no alcohol inside. Sealed within it was a Fragment that let off a pale, sinister light.  "B, Battler!! This is bad!! She must not smash that bottle!!" BGM: The First and the Last The bottle was slammed against the floor and smashed to pieces. As soon as the Fragment within it touched the outside air, it flashed white and burst. ...At first, it seemed that nothing had happened. However, EVA grinned at them before becoming a cloud of butterflies and vanishing. Come to think of it, Bernkastel was gone as well.  "What did she do...?!" "...It was probably a Fragment she brought back with her from the world of the future. Perhaps we could call it the contents of the cat box in the future." "So, what does that mean?! What?!"At that moment, they heard a thundering roar. It was as though large chunks of hail had started falling everywhere. An earthquake accompanied that noise, and the whole mansion creaked. Dust began to fall from the ceiling. At the same time, it seemed as though the curtain-covered window glowed with a pale light.  "Wh, what on Earth is going on...?" "Kyrie, look outside! What the hell is that?!"Everyone rushed to the window in response to her voice. Of course, Battler and Beato went too. Then, they drew the curtains, looked at the scene outside, and were stunned into silence.  Kinzo's words spoke for the first impression felt by all who looked out the windows.  "...Not all beauty is benign." "They always say that beauty has thorns nyeh."Though everyone found the scene beautiful, it gave them all a feeling of impending misfortune. Outside the window, countless small objects, pale glowing Fragments of crystals, lay strewn about everywhere like fallen hail. The word 'fantastical' perfectly summed up the scene that lay before them in the glowing rose garden...  "...Just now, I saw something move over there...!" "H, hey, is there someone over there?! Wait, huh...?!" "...A, a person... just grew out of that glowing Fragment...!" "Seven Sisters of Purgatory, battle formation!!"With those words of Lucifer's, everyone finally realized that they were surrounded by 'danger'...  One by one, the countless Fragments shook and burst, and large, dark bodies rose up from inside each. They were... giants with goat heads. One after another, they appeared from the insides of broken Fragments. Those Fragments lay all over the rose garden in vast numbers and made the ground glow... so that everyone inside was forced to shudder.  "45! Wide-area surveillance!" "...M, my radar's filled with white! We're either being jammed, or... or the vast number of readings is making a count of enemy numbers impossible!!"Even as she said this, the glowing rose garden outside the window was being filled with giant goats. The Fragments carrying the goats weren't just in the rose garden. They were spread evenly across the entire island. Not just the rose garden, but the entire area around the mansion was being covered with goats by now...  "...Allow us to speak." "Know that we are completely surrounded." "Yeah, we noticed..." "Kihihihihihihihihi. What'll you do now, Battler...?" "Only one thing to do with uninvited guests. Let's chase them off. Who are these people? I'm guessing these aren't your minions, right, Beato?" "...The goat forms they hold are probably just imitations of the pieces on this game board." "They aren't Riiche's or Lia's minions. This is something worse."  "Messages within the bottles? Beato's message bottles?" "Wrong. These Fragments are delusions from the people of the future." "...Endless possibilities are hidden within the cat box. Because of that, those outside the box can imagine the insides to be any one of an infinite number of things. It would seem those endless delusions are the true nature of these creatures." "Wh, what will those goats do to us, I wonder..." "It doesn't look like they're coming to give us a handshake and a pat on the back." "...Those people... Those lowlifes, making up and passing around stories, imagining the tragedies that might have unfolded for us on this island... They found it so interesting that I never talked about the truth... that they kept on creating tragedies one after another for their own enjoyment..." "I see. So, they're Fragments of the future, containing delusions about the 1986 cat box..." "In the future world, any and all interpretations can and do EXIST. Unless we deny them, each will be able to call their own views the truth, and they will remain on this ISLAND." "Ahhahahahahahaha! What a fix we're in!" "Looks like we're surrounded and fighting for our lives!" "Hmm, what are they doing...?" "Th, they're eating... They're eating something...!" "...They're eating... roses...?!"The crowd of goats was squirming about and doing something. If you looked closely, you could see them sticking their heads into rose bushes and munching away. And it wasn't just rose bushes. Light poles, the bricks of the flower beds, and even the stone paving itself. They were biting all of it. Almost as if they were trying to eat up the whole island.  "No. They aren't just eating..." "If they aren't eating, then what are they doing...?!"  "They're... eating the game board...?!" "In the future world, everyone believes that we were swallowed up by tragedy today. That's why 'they' won't accept a truth where we enjoy ourselves in peace...!" "...Truths of the past are inferior to truths of the future. The merciless future fangs and jaws of those goats... refuse to accept our truth and are eroding it, replacing it with 'the kind of truth they expect'." "D, dammit... This is our truth...! It's not for those people in the future, who have nothing to do with us anyway, to rewrite as they please...!"The garden outside the window was now filled with too many goats to count, all chewing away. This repulsive scene stole the words from everyone's lips... They weren't just stunned into silence. There was just no point in making a fuss and letting the goats know for no reason. No point in letting them know... that there was plenty of prey waiting in this bright, warm room, prey that was softer and easier to chew than roses or bricks...  "Th, that goat there, he's looking at us...!" "...Silence. Don't make a fuss." "...I, it's coming this way... Isn't this bad...?" There was already a huge swarm of them in the garden, so it was no surprise that, when one of them looked around for new prey, it would see the light from this window. Its immense, eerie body slowly approached. As it grew closer, they could finally see it clearly. The eyes blazed, and yet were still cold, ruthless, and reptilian. The cruel fangs and jaw could tear apart and crush anything. Any fangs that could chew through brick would hardly have a problem chewing through people... Its massive body had to be taller than the windows themselves... And... it was lumbering towards this window... "If only this window was made out of special Ushiromiya bulletproof glass..." "...I doubt even bulletproof glass would stop that thing." "W, waah...!! It's coming, it's coming! It's running towards us!!!"
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2017 12:57
|
|
|
Ah, yes. The point in the game where I started getting mad at what I saw as an author tract against fan speculation. I was especially mad, because by playing coy and releasing the story in installments, the author was the one ultimately responsible for the speculation to begin with. Now that I've calmed down and thought about it more rationally, I do understand why the dialogue was written this way. Some day, this story will be lost to the mists of time, and all that'll be left are whatever managed to hang around through years of Nth-hand information and speculation, and the goats will have won because there'll be no more red text to compare their versions of the catbox against. Still, my reaction is the same as before: so the gently caress what? The true events of the incident of Rokkenjima (as in, what actually happened in the bottom-most layer of reality) are unknowable--any evidence has been erased, and the only people who can attest to what happened are dead. I agree that speculation in that level of reality is pointless, because nobody's left to be persecuted for any crimes, and Ange shouldn't have been held "guilty" of anything, but Japan's infamously hosed up shame culture wasn't about to let her "off the hook" for being related to such a dysfunctional group of people. The riddle that Beatrice set up in the meta games is solvable with a very small set of solutions, but it depends on which rules you're operating under--the fairy-tale world of witches and magic (in which Red Text is queen), or the logical world of deductions and evidence and witness statements (in which Knox and possibly Van Dyne is king). Speculation at this level is fine, so long as you honor the rules of the game. In the world of fanfiction/speculation, though, anything loving goes. Here, the author is dead (in the metaphorical sense), so nobody's interpretation is automatically more valid than anyone else's. Personally, I've become more strict about being canon compliant as I've gotten older (mostly because, now that I've written a bunch of stories, I sure as heck would like my readers respect my source material!), but any particular version of events only adds to the potential number of events, not takes away from them. dotchan fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Nov 3, 2017 |
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2017 13:30
|
|
|
Goats goats goats
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2017 13:39
|
|
|
dotchan posted:Ah, yes. The point in the game where I started getting mad at what I saw as an author tract against fan speculation. I was especially mad, because by playing coy and releasing the story in installments, the author was the one ultimately responsible for the speculation to begin with. You know in higurashi the author actually encouraged fan speculation, theories, and alternate takes on the story presented. Since how it was structured allowed for infinite possibilities (the nature of fragments) he stated that as far as fan-fiction and alternate presentations are canon within the universe and if the readers don't like the resolution he gave the story they could come up with their own. Now hes showing how the desire for one 'truth' can destroy any alternate interpretation and ruins someones happy story. No matter your own opinion about a story/game, sharing and arguing about alternate interpretations can be fun, don't destroy someone elses take because of your own interpretation. And as for Bern.......well.......i get the feeling shes not done yet. Shes always wanted to destroys the cat box, even back in beatos game (when she and battler could have been considered allies) she was quite adamant about ending the game. She (due to her own past) REALLY doesnt like endless time loops. This is one way to end the game since she figured out the presented mysteries in the cat box. Just erase everything but the cold hard reality and see Anges reaction to it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2017 14:27
|
|
|
Ange gonna Ange. I get where Bern is coming from, is the problem. I like truth, I dislike not knowing. But I don't like how Ange is approaching this. She's completely ignoring her older brother now, and to me, I think that means giving up hope. She's always loved her brother, but if she loses even that, than she'll have nothing left in the present. What is the truth going to do for her if it destroys her, like it's doing now?
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2017 15:25
|
|
|
truth is overrated.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2017 15:30
|
|
|
lookw posted:Now hes showing how the desire for one 'truth' can destroy any alternate interpretation and ruins someones happy story. No matter your own opinion about a story/game, sharing and arguing about alternate interpretations can be fun, don't destroy someone elses take because of your own interpretation. It reminds me of a lot of Tumblr's fandoms where differentiating interpretations of characters can lead people to go to outright war, where they're more concern about "Punishing the bad thoughts" than having fun with a series, there's a bit of that going on in a few LPs here, too. People who treat fan theories in a very highlander-y fashion are really a bane upon the enjoyment of a work. And I feel like the railing against the bottle letters is less about the fandom and more about the often rather Ghoulish True Crime genre, where a supposedly nonfiction genre cannot help but insert elaborate fantasies, often at the expense at the victim's and the killer's families. They don't care how their often voyeuristic look at the crime, and borderline libel speculations for unsolved crimes hurt people, just they treat the crime as either a puzzle or a paycheck. Robindaybird fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Nov 3, 2017 |
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2017 15:48
|
|
|
Yeah, I think the one thing that is important to consider is the part where the goats are eroding the island because to them, a happy family reunion is impossible due to their expectations despite the fact they can't know whether the family really was spending both days getting murdered or if some idiot just solved the epitaph and decided to play with the clock's switch to see what it does before leaving it at On or something. Hell, the clock might've just malfunctioned for all we know, I doubt anyone did any maintenance on it all these years so it is not impossible that everyone was having at least a bit of fun before the tragedy happened. The problem is just people saying that it just couldn't have happened that way because there MUST have been a murder and drama and stuff, right?
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2017 16:25
|
|
|
Greader posted:Yeah, I think the one thing that is important to consider is the part where the goats are eroding the island because to them, a happy family reunion is impossible due to their expectations despite the fact they can't know whether the family really was spending both days getting murdered or if some idiot just solved the epitaph and decided to play with the clock's switch to see what it does before leaving it at On or something. Hell, the clock might've just malfunctioned for all we know, I doubt anyone did any maintenance on it all these years so it is not impossible that everyone was having at least a bit of fun before the tragedy happened. The problem is just people saying that it just couldn't have happened that way because there MUST have been a murder and drama and stuff, right? I mean, presumably at the very least there must be a reason Eva never told anyone, not even Ange, what actually happened. So a truth where Eva just happened to be wandering around Kuwadorian alone when lightning struck a gas line doesn't seem very likely. From a non-meta perspective, this update reveals why Battler's approach was doomed to fail. It's all well and good to tell someone to just believe that everyone was happy and nothing bad happened when you don't live in the world with all these goats constantly talking about, and asking you about, what horrible people your family members were. When Battler designed this quiz tournament, he really didn't consider what Ange's life has been like for the past 12 years. But then, how could he. Rodyle posted:Goats goats goats 
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2017 20:30
|
|
|
Goat-kun will finally have his moment to shine, and be the new star of this LP!
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2017 21:58
|
|
|
Robindaybird posted:And I feel like the railing against the bottle letters is less about the fandom and more about the often rather Ghoulish True Crime genre, where a supposedly nonfiction genre cannot help but insert elaborate fantasies, often at the expense at the victim's and the killer's families. They don't care how their often voyeuristic look at the crime, and borderline libel speculations for unsolved crimes hurt people, just they treat the crime as either a puzzle or a paycheck. This is the important thing here. While I can absolutely see taking it in a metafictional direction by reading it as a comment against any and all speculation or alternate theories, I feel like this is much more "anti-mystery" in general; there is something gruesome and unpleasant about sensationalizing the tragedies of real people, living or dead, and the "True Crime" subgenre of mystery is huge on doing exactly that. Which is why it's maybe for the best that the Ushiromiyas are a fictional family so their pain and suffering exists only in the catbox of a visual novel.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2017 22:43
|
|
|
KataraniSword posted:This is the important thing here. While I can absolutely see taking it in a metafictional direction by reading it as a comment against any and all speculation or alternate theories, I feel like this is much more "anti-mystery" in general; there is something gruesome and unpleasant about sensationalizing the tragedies of real people, living or dead, and the "True Crime" subgenre of mystery is huge on doing exactly that. every few years the tabloids dig up Jon-Benet Ramsey's death, and given they're basically unavoidable at the checkout line, can't imagine the sheer gut-punch it is for her parents, especially when they peddle the long since debunked theory that they did it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2017 22:46
|
|
|
RedMagus posted:Goat-kun will finally have his moment to shine, and be the new star of this LP! Praise be! I can understand wanting a more satisfying truth than Battler's saccharine tale, but I wonder what would be a good stopping point would be for Ange. At least now she knows that one point the Ushiromiyas were happy folks trying to get along in their lives, but will Ange be happy with anything less than the exact sequence of events that happened 12 years ago? Perhaps just figuring out if it was an intentional series of murders started by someone or just an accident gone horribly wrong would be enough.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2017 22:46
|
|
|
I know this isn't really relevant to the LP itself, but I recently had to put my dog to sleep, and reading through this has helped me deal with it a little better. Thank you, Prof.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2017 22:52
|
|
|
EagerSleeper posted:Praise be! So here's an interesting quandary. We know Eva's diary contains The Truth, but is it the truth because it's actually what happened, or is it the truth because it's the only primary source that exists and ever will exist in 1998, so no other truth could possibly trump it?
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2017 23:43
|
|
|
bman in 2288 posted:Ange gonna Ange. I get where Bern is coming from, is the problem. I like truth, I dislike not knowing. But I don't like how Ange is approaching this. She's completely ignoring her older brother now, and to me, I think that means giving up hope. She's always loved her brother, but if she loses even that, than she'll have nothing left in the present. What is the truth going to do for her if it destroys her, like it's doing now? It will make her free... or so she believes. And while has gone about things badly, his greatest failure is his failure to address the root of this belief, which goes beyond a lack of positivity. It's not just happy memories Ange needs, it is healing of the holes left in her spirit... a surcease of her sickness. Ange is sick, and no one seems to notice or care anymore than anyone noticed or cared that Yasu was ill. What, did you think that depression was merely feeling sad all the time? Oh, no, no- it is much more insidious, much more terrible than that. It's not just a question of chemistry, although that certainly is a factor- it is the effect the continued trauma of abuse and neglect, combined with long hours alone, creates upon the mind... damage so overwhelming the mind incorporates it, has to incorporate it, so that it becomes normal. Humans are creature of learning, after all. And just as the white blood cells can be tricked into attacking each other, just as the muscles can learn to reject the body's own insulin, so too does the mind, over terrible time, unlearn happiness- learn to reject, even sabotage, experiences and memories which are not painful. Because they do not trust it. Because it is not "true." Our understanding of medical science is so lacking, in so many areas, but it is particularly troglodytic in the area of mental health. We still don't know what causes the mind to go so awry, and identifying symptoms is similarly difficult, so... hoe can you really tell who's sick, or who'd just having a bad time. Look around you, at the cafeteria, on the subway, in the park. Any one you see just sitting there could look normal, just a fellow citizen enjoying the sunshine... and they, unbeknownst to me, could be locked in a hell beyond my imagination, where the task of staying above their own suffering is Sisyphean to the point of envying Sisyphus. And I'd never know, because they're some of the best actors in the world: they'll just say they "feel a bit tired," but they'll be fine, really. Fine... I wonder if anyone's really "fine", given the amount of suffering and imbalance in the world. I'm saying all of this, because Ange reminds me of those people on a bench. Heck for all I know, she could actually be in a park... or still on top of that building, looking down and wondering if she cares enough about life to not step off. And real or imagined, is this not exactly a metaphor for what's happened to her every day for twelve years: trying to maintain a happy memory of the people who raised her while the "goats" all around her, who thought they knew more than her or merely want a ghoulish story to entertain themselves, devour that happy memory? 12 years... that's 4383 days, and I'd rather not consider the hours... even if there were some good days here and there, I've never struggled with anything so long. God, how long could you keep going, all alone, in the face of all of the memories of your relatives being questioned, stomped on, reconsidered "in light of new evidence?" Wouldn't you eventually just snap, just want to give up? Maybe even want to destroy all those memories yourself so all those vultures can't defile it anymore? That's the place I imagine Ange is, right now, and you can tell from the outfit she sports, an outfit of mourning. Yes, here lie the Ushiromiyas, look all you want. Discuss as you will, take all of your pictures, air out all your theories, because I don't care anymore. I'm done. All I want to do is know the truth, and then... Battler tried to stop this, but it wasn't enough; it was just the same thing she'd had and lost before, and just giving her more memories to hold, just means for Ange more time for all the spectators to defile them too. How dark, how cruel, how hopeless... but how human, too. "They told me I was everything. 'Tis a lie."
resurgam40 fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Nov 4, 2017 |
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2017 01:55
|
|
|
EagerSleeper posted:Perhaps just figuring out if it was an intentional series of murders started by someone or just an accident gone horribly wrong would be enough. From what we've been shown so far, looks more like an intentional series of murders gone horribly wrong (right?).
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2017 02:11
|
|
|
dotchan posted:Ah, yes. The point in the game where I started getting mad at what I saw as an author tract against fan speculation. I was especially mad, because by playing coy and releasing the story in installments, the author was the one ultimately responsible for the speculation to begin with. More importantly, if we see this entire Episode as being about closure after tragedy and trauma, what the Witch Hunters represent is people yanking you around and sticking their fingers inside an emotional injury for curiousity or amusement, as distinct from the sort of prodding and hurting and bone-resetting necessary for police or authorities to properly investigate a crime or for a therapist to help talk you through recovery. It's natural for people to be curious, and I'd even argue it's natural for people to talk about these sort of mysterious mass casualty events with each other, but people have been making their curiosity Ange's problem for a very long time, and then blaming her and punishing her when she doesn't want to talk about their theories or answer their invasive questions. Meanwhile, nothing we say here can directly impact Ange, the fictional character, at all. If we make up fanfiction, there's almost certainly a fragment where that happened, certainly so if there's a fragment where Lion existed. But even though this is fiction, Ryu07 is using it to talk about stuff that happens in real life, and where speculating can turn into distorting and playing with other people's pain because you don't know them and so it's as if they are fictional to you. I can see why you got the interpretation you did, but I think it's completely off base. PetraCore fucked around with this message at 04:26 on Nov 4, 2017 |
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2017 04:23
|
|
|
 I am not sorry. In fact, I'm making the whole opening with umineko sprite once I get more time.  Please don't kill me
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2017 05:17
|
|
|
 BGM: Bizarre DivertimentoThe power of Cornelia's seal formed a shield around the glass. The goat was blown back, unable even to touch the glass because of this power. Its weight made the earth tremble. They could feel that clearly, even inside. But that tremor had also drawn the attention of the nearby goats. A pack of goats started shuffling towards them, and a fight broke out as they each charged forward, trying to reach this new prey first. The window protected by Cornelia's seal would probably be safe. However, there were many windows in the great hall. For the first time, those windows became a source of terror instead of sunlight and a lovely view. "Gertrude!" Getrude sealed another window. The goats trying to break in through that one were thrown back. But at the same time, they heard the crash of yet another window being smashed. Scattering fragments of glass everywhere, the massive goats broke through the window frame and entered the building. "W, waaaaaaaaahhh!!" "S, stay back. Everyone stay back!" Those words really were coming from the goat's mouth. Along with a steaming, foul breath. However, it didn't get a chance to say any more. Forehead, neck, shoulder. Chest, side, gut, knee. The stakes of the Seven Sisters buried themselves in deep, one after another.  "What rough, unappetizing flesh for piercing!" "I just couldn't bear to gobble up any more of these...!" Their mouths were still stuffed with the bricks they had just been snacking on. Each time they chewed, it made a ghastly sound, like bones being crushed...  "...We will repel THEM." "Chiester troops, prepare for close-range combat!" "Hold up. You start firing away and we'll have all the other goats coming to join the party." "...Let's fall back to the second floor. If we can seal the staircase, that'll buy us some time." "Everyone, upstairs. Hurry!"After sniffing noisily as though scanning the smells around them, the goats started chewing on whatever chairs, tables, or curtains were close by. The goats would chew anything to bits, as long as it was near them. If the others were careful not to attract the goats' attention, they would be able to escape from this place... The humans ran on ahead up to the second floor, while the fantasy creatures, who were used to fighting, guarded the rear. The goats were completely absorbed by their feast on everything in the hall. ...By now, they were even brutally chewing away at the portrait of Beatrice, which might be called the symbol of the whole Ushiromiya family...  "Good. Dlanor, seal all the staircases." "Gertrude and Cornelia will handle IT. However, they need more TIME."All over the mansion, there were loud beating sounds that might be called knocks and the sound of shattering glass.  "...Well now, ladies and gentlemen. It's time for work." "Chiester Troops, halt all external tasks. Cancel automatic updates, accept no data, take no prisoners!" "Eiserne Jungfrau of the Seventh District. By the territory lord's order, carry out your DUTY." "...I'll lend a hand. Lion, you're in the way. Go up to the second floor." "But Will...!" "Leave this to us and go. You have your own job to do. Protect your family." "I, I understand. Everyone, stay safe..."The mansion was filled with the sounds of knocking, crushing, smashing, and chewing. The goats and their wave of destruction was drawing steadily closer...  "The other staircases are tiny, so they went fast. On the other hand, this staircase is huuuge. Looks like you'll have your hands full buying time."Lambdadelta spoke as though it was someone else's problem. It only took a glance at her face to see that she had no intention of lending a hand. Even so, Beato didn't scold her. ...This was a game between Battler and Ange. Lambdadelta was only a theatergoer who had been invited.  "...Don't think badly of me. Even I'd die if I was torn apart by nothingness. Sorry, but I think I'll stick to being an observer." "That's what you've always been. Though it is a shame that we can't ask for your help." "...Nah, she's being nice. Doesn't want to steal our show." "Heheh. Sure, let's say that's the reason."As a Voyager Witch, Lambdadelta could retreat from this game board of Battler's if she wanted to. In other words, she was the only one who wasn't in trouble now. "See you later. I think I'll watch this game between you and Bern 'til the end. I'll be rooting for you." "As you munch on popcorn?" "Of course. I think I'll have some soy-sauce butter flavor today."Lambdadelta vanished with a pop. As soon as she did, a black hole opened up in midair, and Gaap fell out of it.  "...Right now?" "Yes." "Let's go. Everyone, we're counting on you to hold this position...!"When Gaap snapped her fingers, a large hole opened up under Battler and Beato, swallowing them both. When it spat them back out again, they were in an inky-black sky. Both of them were floating in the night sky. They could see Rokkenjima far beneath them. And, as soon as they realized this, they shuddered. "...Th, this is...!!" "It's not just a crowd. It's a sea."  "...People in the future really are amazing. Just how many of them have imagined the tragedy on this island?" "They're nothing more than worthless drivel from outside the cat box...! Let's clean this place up...!!" "Now look over there. It's hard to tell, but look at the shoreline." "...The shoreline...?" "It's easy to make out the harbor. Look closely. See it...?" "D, don't tell me...?!" "...Yeah, you're probably right. They're eating it. Eating the whole island..." As EVA yelled this to the heavens, hovering about the raging sea, hail fell down with a pale glow. Each one was a bottle with no label and a Fragment inside. They poured onto the island, were smashed to bits, and the Fragments inside them scattered everywhere. Every now and then, the Fragments would split in two, then split in two again, and every single one of them burst and gave birth to a massive goat. To say it was like bamboo shoots springing up after the rain would be a vast understatement. The goats writhed about like bubbling, boiling water in a pot. They ate away at everything they saw. They didn't just eat the harbor, but the trees and rocks, the entire coastline itself. Hundreds, thousands, no, tens of thousands of goats continued to eat... They were chewing away at every bit of Rokkenjima, of this final game that Battler had prepared...  "Ahhahahhahahahahaha!! Too bad, Battler-kun! The future wants a tragedy on this island...! Even Ange wants the truth! We'll just chew up all the ostentation, illusions, and fantasy for them!!"By now, Battler and the others had to admit it. The future wanted a tragedy. Even if the truth of this island had been a gentle, peaceful thing. The future didn't want that. The truth they wanted... was painting over the past.  "Just who are these people...? Are they really so determined to throw us into a tragedy...?" "That's all I wanted to show you. Hopefully, this'll be useful for making a strategic decision." "Yeah, thanks. Thanks to that, I feel just awful now." "Then let's go to the study next, if you don't mind. Goldsmith wants to talk to you."Gaap snapped her fingers, and another black hole swallowed them up and spat them out in the study.  "...Grandfather, we're in trouble. There's absolutely nowhere left to go...!" "I know. And even waiting out the storm from here is not an option." "Ronove and the others should be able to buy us some time, but that's all."If they just holed up in the mansion and fought from there, it would only be a matter of time before the swarm of goats got them. Trying to repel a few of the goats who barged into the mansion would be like using a cup to bail water from a boat with a hole in it.  "We could fight defensively for a while, but then it would only be a matter of time..." "We need to think of something while we fight. Can we escape?! Where to?! Is there any way for us to leave the game board?!" "Outside the game board is outside of our territory. Only a Voyager Witch could leave it."Only Bernkastel and Lambdadelta could do it. However, there was no way Bernkastel would help. Even Lambdadelta had already announced that she would be an observer instead of lending a hand.  "So, there's nowhere left to run." "No, there is just one place." "Where?!" "I see... Is that our only option now...?!" "Indeed. The Golden Land is the most impenetrable place on this game board. If we wish to escape, it's that or nothing." "These things are eating the cat box itself. For all we know, they might start chewing away at the Golden Land itself at any moment." "...Nn, what should we do, Battler...?!" "No point thinking about it. We're retreating. If we take too long to make a decision, even that road will be closed to us. Evacuate everyone. How can we open the door to the Golden Land?!" "I just have to open it. However, an immense wave of the anti-magic toxin is emanating from that crowd of goats. It will take some time to open the door." "So, we've only got to protect this study with our lives until the door's open. Just have to keep doing what we've been doing." "There's one more problem. The door to the Golden Land cannot be shut unless two people close it from the outside." "Two from the outside...? What do you mean...?"As soon as he said this, Battler realized. This must be an agreement made between the three witches who are one... "Normally, there's no need to go to the trouble of shutting the door... We can't do that this time, though." "Me, the territory lord, and Beato. It does seem to be the safest choice." "Indeed. If it's just the two of us, we might even be able to protect ourselves." "Okay, open the door...!"Beato waved her pipe, leaving a golden trail behind as she sliced the air vertically.  If you looked closely, you could see that the string was getting thicker, very slowly. The door to the Golden Land certainly was opening, but so slowly that you couldn't even tell if you weren't careful. At this rate, it would probably take quite some time before it grew big enough to let a person through... "Grandfather, Gaap, we'll need you to be our inner line of defense!" "Yes, there may be goats climbing up the outer walls...!" "Very well. My rifle is hungry for some prey!" "Understood. It'll be fun dropping those things into the Abyss." Video: The SiegeBGM: The Executioner "Splendidly DONE." "...I'll let you have the next one."Countless massive goats, which had forced their way in from rooms and windows all across the mansion, wandered about in search of something to chew. Several of the goats noticed the group of people huddled around the staircase and lumbered closer, but they were pulverized by merciless attacks. Ronove's shields easily halted the charging goats, and Virgilia's magic spears were pinning the giants against the walls. Dlanor's and Will's blades were also slicing easily through goats. The pinpoint strikes of the Seven Sisters of Purgatory could pierce the vitals of and finish off any opponent, no matter how large. The Chiester Sisters were holding their own too. They had blasted enough goats to bits with one shot from their high-caliber firearms that you couldn't count the kills with both hands. Given a limited number of opponents, they were more than a match for these goats. However, they weren't just up against a crowd, but an entire sea. It was like a pebble trying to face the approaching waves of a stormy sea...   "You run out of bullets and you're nothing but rabbits. Laaame!" "I don't wanna hear that from a bunch of seven paperweights that can only kill one person at a time nyeh." "Yeah, keep them coming!! Don't let us get bored!!"The hall was filled with massive goat corpses. As if in fear of this sight, the goats that came in one after another formed a wall, keeping their distance. "...Perhaps they think they're no match for us." "I wish that were TRUE, but it seems to be little more than wishful THINKING." "What're those guys doing...? They're looking at us... and whispering to each other." "Apparently, they have enough intelligence to talk with each other and cooperate." Then, they nodded at each other as though deciding something, and the whole group stirred. ...What are they doing? It almost looks like they're lining up in a different order...  "The enemy is changing its formation...! It appears that the individuals with greater destructive power are being gathered in the front lines!" "And so what? Let's go!!" """"""Yes, Onee-sama!!"""""" "Wait! Something's wrong...!"Lucifer took aim at one of them, going for its forehead. The other six sisters followed her lead, trying to pierce the vital organs all over the creature's body. However, there was no sound of pierced flesh. The Seven Sisters of Purgatory were knocked back, unable to cause even the smallest wound.  "Wh, what?! What just happened?!" "...Those guys are talking about something."The goats kept whispering the same thing, over and over, as they slowly approached the Seven Sisters. All of them whispered unanimously.   "...The Seven Sisters of Purgatory... are fantasy creatures... personifying stakes for ceremonial sacrifices..." "...They're actually paperweights... They're actually paperweights..."As they whispered curses that denied the Seven Sisters' existence, the goats lumbered closer. "Get back, Purgatory troops!! We'll cover you!" "It's time you learned a lesson, goats!!"The golden bows of the Chiester troops mowed down the wall of goats with shower of bright golden bullets. Some of the goats were torn to pieces, but some of them seemed completely unaffected. Then, the goats who were uninjured all whispered as one.  "...They're actually rabbit dolls... Maria's imagination, fantasy, fictional beings..." "...All of the crimes can be explained by mystery... All fantasy is irrelevant..." "Looks like-" "We've got lots of people who won't accept the existence of magic!" "And that means?!" "No magical attacks will have any effect on them!" "D, does that mean all of our attacks will be completely useless?!" "...Endless Nine nyeh. If they don't accept that we exist, our attacks can't hurt them nyeh." "Is that possible...?!" "We'll have to test it." The crowd of goats dashed into it with a terrifying force. While some goats were blown away by it, several of them slipped right through the magical barrier. "...Ronove is a creature of magic, a creature of fiction..." "...Genji is Ronove's vessel... An imaginary version of Genji..." "I see, so even my attacks will not affect some of them."There was no longer any point in Virgilia trying out her magic spear. Now that some of the goats had decided that her existence was fictional, she could no longer hurt them. Even these great demons and great witches, as well as high-level furniture and weapons, were overcome with fear of the crowd that surrounded them, a crowd that would not be affected by any of their attacks...  "...Wh, what are we going to do...?!" "...W, we'll keep fighting until the end. You do not have permission to die in battle...!" A shriek from one of the goats became a signal for the wall of them to break. They pushed forward with gaping mouths and foul breath, each trying to reach their prey first, trying to return these fictional creatures to nothingness. "Look out...!!"Virgilia leapt in front of and held several of the Seven Sisters, who had fallen on their butts, overpowered by the ferocity of the approaching goats. However, even Virgilia was a fictional creature to these goats. They could chew through her like cotton candy.  "Madam, quickly...!!"Ronove threw himself at the oncoming goats. Even he would be chewed apart easily. Knowing this, Ronove leapt forward. "...Even if my magic no longer functions, I am still the fiercely passionate and loyal man I always was. And furthermore, did you expect that I would simply sit by and watch a lady die?" "...Ronove is fantasy... Ronove is fantasy..."Ronove slammed his right fist into the side of a goat's face. As soon as he pulled it back, he swung his left leg into the goat's gut, then spun around into a reverse roundhouse that caught the goat again.  "...Hmph."Ronove knew. He could do less damage than a mosquito bite against those who didn't accept his existence. This was the height of anti-magic defensive power, Endless Nine. "...Ronove is fantasy... a fiction... an illusion...!!"The goat swung its log-like fist with a sound like a storm. Ronove dodged by a hair. If he had been an instant slower, the massive arm would have crushed his head like glass. "Ronove...!! Stop this, run...!!" "I, Ronove, cannot help but rise to the challenge when I see a woman in a pinch. A bad habit of mine."Ronove grinned and tried to act tough.  There was nothing he could do here and now... except becoming a shield to buy time. He had already chosen to abandon his life for this. "...Ronove is fantasy... He couldn't exist... he couldn't exist..." "...Those of fantasy do not exist... Do not exist..." "...Fantasy is all... ridiculous... ridiculous..."The goats kept coming, trying to feast on Ronove. None had any pretensions of making this a one-on-one fight. Nothing mattered except chewing apart fantasy. Even just a nibble. As they gnashed those ruthless jaws and fangs, they gathered around Ronove... "...Ggh...!"Ronove's foot hit something, and he stumbled. In the same instant, several massive arms reached out and lifted him up.  "R, Ronove-samaaaaaaaaaa!!" "What are you doing, Chiesters? Shoot them!!" "...We would've done that already if it'd have any effect nyeh..." "Everyone, please stand back. I should be able to buy you some time as they savor my flesh. However, I think they'll find that Ronove has quite a few little bones in him."An elbow rammed itself into the massive, hideous jaws that were trying to chew Ronove's head. Of course, the goat did moan, but that did nothing but deprive just one goat from his right of getting the first bite of Ronove's head. Many jaws opened wide, trying to crush him and throw him down into those heartless stomachs, which would permit no cheerful fantasies to exist... "...I won't accept fantasy... won't accept..." "...It's possible to explain everything with mystery... possiblllle..." "Fantasy is faaaaaaake, everything is mysteryyyyyyyy...!!" The Seven Sisters used this chance to fly forward and grab Ronove, dragging him back. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2017 12:58
|
|
|
I can't feel my brain one more hour and I'm done
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2017 12:59
|
|
|
i look forward to seeing how badly this goes for dlanor's pre-game game face
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2017 14:43
|
|
|
Good, let's eat the whole game board. End the cat box.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2017 14:55
|
|
|
ProfessorProf posted:
Oh the irony.  By the way, soy sauce butter popcorn is a thing in Japan (apparently it's already in the market since 2007) and you can make your own as well. :popcorn:
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2017 15:13
|
|
|
ProfessorProf posted:I can't feel my brain Now it's time to start getting ready for next year!
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2017 15:45
|
|
|
You really scared me with that update, Prof. I thought I managed to lose an entire day somehow.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2017 16:52
|
|
|
While I can't help but get hype for Dlanor, I gotta wonder how all those anti-fantasy goats would fare against regular Genji with a large caliber rifle. PS. This is the best way to confirm little details
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2017 17:34
|
|
|
That Dlanorface is incredible.   
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2017 20:04
|
|
|
Like Jeek, I see the irony of this situation... and also the same, I ain't even mad. I like where all of this is going, because this is already fascinating: a high fantasy battle between magic and anti-magic, using only fantastical weapons so far, but it looks like mystery will be getting involved later, which reflect greater philosophical themes of cynicism and realism versus imagination and hope, which can be viewed on a meta-textual level as both a small scale metaphor of Ange's essential head-space and the process in her head over 12 years, and an even greater metaphor on the relationship between writer and audience, especially concerning mysteries... And it all works. It works real good, and although there are novels that pull off similar tricks with a little more artistry, it's still incredible, especially considering the translation effort involved. This is amazing. And not at all what you would have expected when reading EP 1. So in conclusion, I don't actually have much more to say but to quote our good friend witchcore to say: witchcore ricepunk posted:I LOVE THIS BRING IT ON BITCHES
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2017 21:42
|
|
|
For real though, that last image is so great. Real tempted to make that into an avatar. e: To add a little more content to this post, what's so great here is all these goats using anti-fantasy to deny the magical parts of Battler's Happy Ending, when what they really want to destroy is the idea of a happy ending itself. As if a realistic mystery story is any less fictional than a fantasy. As if a mystery can't have a happy ending. As if something being sad makes it more real. As if this sea of goats actually cares about the truth more than their morbid entertainment at the suffering of others. ZiegeDame fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Nov 5, 2017 |
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2017 22:20
|
|
|
Battler's endless nine sure seems a lot less special now.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2017 22:48
|
|
|
ZiegeDame posted:For real though, that last image is so great. Real tempted to make that into an avatar. It reminds me of those people who always complain about movies having a "Disney ending" and wanting it to be sad and painful and "more realistic". Which, ok maybe it's a decent critique, but sometimes the reason it has a happy ending is not for realism, but to make a point, or to provide an emotional release for the audience. also Dlanor is awesome
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2017 23:01
|
|
|
btw now we've seen ANGE Beatrice proper so here's some beta designs
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2017 03:38
|
|
|
RedMagus posted:It reminds me of those people who always complain about movies having a "Disney ending" and wanting it to be sad and painful and "more realistic". Which, ok maybe it's a decent critique, but sometimes the reason it has a happy ending is not for realism, but to make a point, or to provide an emotional release for the audience. It's not even. Something being sad doesn't automatically make it more realistic. Good things happen in life all the time. It's what makes the bad things worth enduring. Having everything be bleak and miserable is just as unrealistic as everything being bright and saccharine all the time. Pretending that good things don't or can't happen in real life is how you get Kanon. Really the key to having a happy ending is finding the high point and stopping the story there.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2017 05:20
|
|
|
Rodyle posted:btw now we've seen ANGE Beatrice proper so here's some beta designs
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2017 05:45
|
|
|
RedMagus posted:It reminds me of those people who always complain about movies having a "Disney ending" and wanting it to be sad and painful and "more realistic". Which, ok maybe it's a decent critique, but sometimes the reason it has a happy ending is not for realism, but to make a point, or to provide an emotional release for the audience. A lot of people have somehow acquired the idea that in order to be art, and therefore worthwhile, a work must be complex, obscure, difficult to understand. or depressing. Or, preferably, some combination of all of those things. Certainly, works with those attributes can be art, but none are necessary ingredients.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2017 06:40
|
|
|
By the way, didn't someone mention many pages ago that R07 somehow ended up fighting (figuratively) with Umineko's audience in the later part of the series? This scene may just be an example of him expressing his displeasure at them.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2017 10:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 03:04 |
|
|
I mean, I'd have to assume that R07 never would have written Umineko if he hadn't gotten a substantial number of complaints about Higurashi not being a mystery, so you could say the entirety of Umineko was him fighting with some of his audience.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2017 11:39
|
|