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Orv posted:I just wanted to know if I should play this game yet, and then I read the last handful of pages. I'm not sure who's crazier, Section Z or the devs, but it did make for an entertaining and vaguely informative evening. Thanks? Do you have an SSD and how much RAM do you have? Based on my experience I would not try to run the game on a hard drive. It became a worse and worse experience as it went on for me, which is a drat shame because the environments got better and better the further I played.
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Oct 30, 2017 06:12
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Digirat posted:Do you have an SSD and how much RAM do you have? Based on my experience I would not try to run the game on a hard drive. It became a worse and worse experience as it went on for me, which is a drat shame because the environments got better and better the further I played. Yes and 16GB, I expect I'd be fine beyond the natural shittiness.
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Oct 30, 2017 06:16
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I haven't played it since they started putting in a story and alien bases, but i never had a problem with the performance. My computer is on the average to low end, and i run it on a harddrive just fine.
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Oct 30, 2017 14:47
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I've been playing S.T.A.L.K.E.R. recently and it's actually kind of sad to see that the critters in that game have better AI than the ones in this game. Why oh why couldn't they just put some work into making the creatures behave better. The atmosphere is definitely the best part of the game, but the really basic and stupid creature behaviour takes so much away from it.
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Oct 30, 2017 15:26
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Back when I started playing it maybe 18 months ago. The game was full of jank and I was hooked on the mood, gameplay loops, spooky monsters and mystery. All that is still in the game. My biggest complaint is that the devs have focused on adding/ changing features that don't make the game more compelling (Cyclops poo poo and other stuff) and ignore things that would be really incredible (Fish A.I.) That for me is what really limits the experience. Stalkers are the only fish that seem to have actual goals aside from swimming in a loop. It's actually a really simple system of behavior where they hoover up any titanium and pile it up but they are one of the few fish that actually feel alive. I wonder if they were not something handled early on and got pushed down the list. A lot of additions to the game feel less like being part of a planned system and more of a "Let's add cool and spooky creatures". I recently reloaded S.T.A.L.K.E.R too and found much the same as GlyphGryph. You see these creatures off doing their own thing on their own loops. If you followed them you would probably find that it's just an extended point A-B thing. But enough of that creates dynamic encounters and behaviour. Something as simple as random timings for spawning Reapers. Random aggro on some predators. Anything to make the game a little more surprising. All the engine stuff is what it is and it's garbage nonsense that should have been fixed. But people will suffer janky poo poo to play a good game. I mean, that's what I did with this game and S.T.A.L.K.E.R.
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Nov 1, 2017 15:32
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... are animals supposed to be super aggressive? I was far away from a leviathan, then it turns around and just EATS my seamoth despite me frantically trying to swim in the opposite direction. I bail and it goes after my sea moth even without me in it. So much for that seamoth.  Everything wants me DEAD. Including angry suicide fish, Chompy McChompsnout, Totally Tubular Dirt Shark and the rest. It's tempting to turn on the freaking invisible cheat.
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Nov 4, 2017 22:50
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Yeah thats the sort of stuff I am complaining about. It ruins any feeling that you exploring anything approaching a genuine alien world.
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Nov 4, 2017 23:21
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I didn't really think about it until you guys started putting it into words, but yeah. The predators in the game really don't feel like animals, but much more like WoW NPCs. I'd be okay with that tho if they ironed out the more major kinks. I don't really think this development studio is capable of funneling smarter AI into the game at this point in development hell.
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Nov 4, 2017 23:49
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Like, the aggro radius on the leviathans is just - redonk. I could barely see it until it came barreling down mouth first onto my seamoth since I was actively working to avoid it. I get jump scares, blah blah, but this is silly. I really want to like this game, I do. I enjoy the building, exploring, the graphics and atmosphere. Just maybe dial down the homicidal wildlife and up the viewing distance a bit. Also maybe fewer HOLY gently caress MURDERBEASTS. As it sits, I may keep exploring a bit, but I'm probably gonna wait till it's a release.
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Nov 5, 2017 02:15
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The game doesn't try that hard to be a simulation. Predators are part of the challenge of going to deeper places. You learn how to deal with them and get some rewards and move on. There are some ridiculously high density Boneshark areas that are dumb as hell but predators in the rest of the world generally fit with the scope of the game. Stalkers have more interactive behavior because they live in a biome you encounter before having access to vehicles. With a Sea Moth or even just a Seaglide they become pretty irrelevant as you zoom past to grab whatever you want out of the Kelp Forest. Having the peeper/scrap-metal/knife type of interactions with predators in deeper biomes would be a waste because you're in a vehicle most of the time and could easily ignore them. Instead you get a couple different vehicle options with a variety of upgrades that change how you approach and deal with those predators. This doesn't really deliver on the simulated alien world aspect but it makes sense as a choice for game progression. Even then, the non-Stalker predators aren't as mindlessly aggressive as people are claiming. They pretty much all have individual traits or behaviors that set them apart. Bonesharks are aggressive vs. the lights and sounds of vehicles but are pretty slow to react when you're swimming on your own. Crabsquids react to light and you can lure them around with vehicle lights or drop a flare to give them a closer to proximity light source to respond to. Crabsnakes have a range of interactions with Jelly Shrooms. Sand Sharks and Lava Lizards have their tunneling stuff that makes it easy to keep your distance and I see them going after fish way more than the player. Ampeels aren't really aggressive unless you sit on top of them for awhile, but you have to careful of their electricity. Warpers have the teleport stuff and don't often attack directly even though they have a good reason for targeting the player. The Lost River eels are the plainest ones I can think of. And every predator in the game, including leviathans, will go after prey fish over the player if the prey fish is closer and they haven't been provoked. Leviathans prey on shark-level fish and those aren't always around so sometimes the player or their vehicle is the only thing in the area that they can target. You can survive any leviathan attack if you're near full health and/or react to the scream. If you panic and don't react well you can die or lose a Sea Moth, which makes sense. Dealing any type of damage will cause predators to flee and give you space. I think there are still problems with the game. The draw distance & pop in are huge negatives. Build costs and fragment locations are funky and the new data chip things are a weird add on to that. Cyclops gives low utility for all the trouble of building it, outfitting it, and keeping it safe. Water filtration costs too much power. But teeth creatures occasionally biting you for a non-threatening chunk of damage that you can quickly recover from doesn't seem horrible and also you can just outrun everything in the game with the grappling arm so who cares.
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Nov 5, 2017 04:15
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Lava lizards also have ablative lava armor.
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Nov 5, 2017 04:41
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Lonos Oboe posted:Back when I started playing it maybe 18 months ago. The game was full of jank and I was hooked on the mood, gameplay loops, spooky monsters and mystery. All that is still in the game. My biggest complaint is that the devs have focused on adding/ changing features that don't make the game more compelling (Cyclops poo poo and other stuff) and ignore things that would be really incredible (Fish A.I.) That for me is what really limits the experience. Stalkers are the only fish that seem to have actual goals aside from swimming in a loop. It's actually a really simple system of behavior where they hoover up any titanium and pile it up but they are one of the few fish that actually feel alive. I wonder if they were not something handled early on and got pushed down the list. A lot of additions to the game feel less like being part of a planned system and more of a "Let's add cool and spooky creatures". Some of my favorite STALKER mods were those that increased the visual ambiguity between certain factions (primarily loners and bandits). So from a distance, it would be difficult to tell if NPCs were interested in robbing you, trading with you, or ignoring you--because you couldn't simply say "oh he's wearing a tracksuit, he's a bandit." I understand why, from a mechanical perspective, bandits all wore the same outfits but, man, I really enjoyed that tense uncertainty when approaching NPCs when that wasn't the case. EDIT: Also, I understand that tracksuits are the outfit of Eastern European criminals.
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Nov 5, 2017 06:09
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Creature aggro does bother me although it isn’t a dealbreaker. Reapers scare me though and I think they’re OP. I might not dislike them as much if draw distance was bette though, but as it is it is lame to run into one, try to flee, then have it follow you across the map back to your base and chill there for the rest of forever.
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Nov 5, 2017 09:18
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Technical/performance improvements will indirectly go a long way toward making the creatures better. If you could see and hear them from much further out it would both be more fair and there would be more opportunity for them to get sidetracked by things other than just trying to kill the player/the player's submarine, so they could be going after another creature or whatever by the time you actually run into them.
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Nov 5, 2017 09:37
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gnoma posted:The game doesn't try that hard to be a simulation. It does try hard to be an exploration though, a game type where the feel of creature behaviours can easily be even more important than in simulation games, which tend to be more concerned about results than behaviour. Actually with stuff like population modeling and the depopulation problems its caused they have actually often seemed MORE focused on a simulationist rather than exploratory approach to the ecology.
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Nov 5, 2017 15:24
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Also claiming that Stalkers act different only because they inhabit the Beginning Zone is a revisionist half-truth. All animals were supposed to be as complex as the Stalker, but it turns out that's hard work so they quietly abandoned the idea for all subsequent predators.
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Nov 5, 2017 17:14
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Rhjamiz posted:Also claiming that Stalkers act different only because they inhabit the Beginning Zone is a revisionist half-truth. All animals were supposed to be as complex as the Stalker, but it turns out that's hard work so they quietly abandoned the idea for all subsequent predators. That's exactly what I always thought. Saying that the Stalkers have the most complex, 'neutral' and arguably most enjoyable behavior because of design doesn't really cut it in my books. It's intellectually dishonest. I understand that a lot of creatures in the game have little ticks. But in my opinion none of it really comes across. The Bonesharks being more aggressive to the subs is a recent implementation. Go back maybe 40 pages and you will see posts asking why Bonesharks are out of control. I like the fact that fish hunt other fish. But there is no outsmarting any creatures or distracting them. Maybe it is too much to ask for Alien Isolation level stuff, but in real life Great White sharks don't always appear in the same place and don't instantly attack you. They have specific needs. "Swim, eat and make little baby sharks" I know Reapers are meant to be Hellfish from planet X but imagine they had a day night cycle where maybe they patrol this place during the night or bunch up at a nest in the day. Maybe 1 time out of 100 they don't attack. I know they can't go too wild because of instancing and other progamming words I don't know. But when I play a game like S.T.A.L.K.E.R or The Forest. I am almost always on my toes and encounters in that game can often go either way. And in fact under the hood those games have some designated areas for enemies and roaming bands that will just kite right past you and scare the gently caress out of you because holy poo poo is he just running to get his older brother with the 12 inch cock? (The Forest is a seriously good game) The best way I can describe what I would want is the feeling I am sure every Subnautica player had when they first encountered Reefbacks. You hear the deep throaty sound and poo poo your pants. You see these huge monster beasts just hanging in the blue. And slowly, ever so slowly you approach. Unsure as what the hell they are with their weird UFO design. You are still not sure if they will fart green poison eggs on you like those derpy fuckers near the lifepod that swim in a circle forever. After a bit of swimming around them you think "Wow, this must be what swimming with whales is like." Your first Reaper encounter goes 1 of 2 ways. You are minding your own business and then "HOLY gently caress WHAT IS THAT EATING ME?!" Or you hear a roar and see a shape far off. You see this monster looking thing and then have to decide "Do I swim around? I know it's dangerous" and the most crippling "I wonder what it's aggro range is?" You are instantly in game mode whereas creatures like the Stalkers are usually chasing fish or scrap and Sandsharks are (Or were, they seem to do it less) Are hiding and hunting fish. Which simple as it is makes them feel alive. It just feels that as they went along they really focused more on design and gameplay and assumed it would be added in later. I don't mean to come across combative to what anyone has posted. I know we are all on the same page. But If I could think of things a good programmer/designer could figure out in a few weeks. The creature behavior would be that. Give them all randomised need bars. And every encounter will be compelling. In GTA it always feels like a real place because every one has a place to go. It doesn't matter that if you actually follow a car you realise it's just driving in circles. TL;DR: Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy. Caught on a Reefback no escape from Reaper's teeth.
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Nov 7, 2017 01:38
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I thought the reefback AI where they try to mate with your hab buildings was kind of endearing until I found out that it was just a bug.
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Nov 7, 2017 01:43
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The design in this game approaches Romero levels: Lots of cool creative things but they have no Carmack to make it work. But they still insist that it will work, is working the way it should, or is too hard to implement.
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Nov 7, 2017 17:14
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I haven’t played this game in several months. Was in my habitat preparing for a jaunt when suddenly ”What are you” happened. That scared the living hell out of me, I was just petrified. ALSO: I need to see if I still have a copy of that “TOP TREASURE AHEAD! GO FARTHER! ONLY SCRUBS HAVE DIED IN THIS CAVE” warning sign. Edit: here... we... go! 
Three-Phase fucked around with this message at 04:19 on Nov 12, 2017 |
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Nov 12, 2017 04:12
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Why the gently caress are there suicide bomber fish less than 100m from the lifepod? That's a Hell of a thing to spring on unarmed new players.
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Nov 19, 2017 18:13
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Mister Facetious posted:Why the gently caress are there suicide bomber fish less than 100m from the lifepod? Which of course is why the wiki suggests you use repulsion cannons or stasis rifles to deal with this tutorial zone creature, before you even have a way to keep your lifepod from floating away. More seriously. Wait until you have built your first seaglide, or at minimum regular Fins (you swim faster with no tools or knife held out) and knowing for certain you have a clear easy U turn to swim away longer than you think you need to. A lot of people just says "  outswim them bro" but they are a real pain in the rear end to do so naturally (More so when more than one trigger or they are around a blind corner), without the Seaglide to cruise away at top speed, or Ultra Fins.Speaking of crash fish. Have they finally dialed back on their suddenly deciding to take up triggering from seamoths driving past all the caves in the safe shallows and one-shooting your little submarine? I remember the Devs admitting eventually that the Crash fish were somehow multi-stacking damage to the Seamoth after quite a while of the playerbase just shouting how that was working as intended. But them aggroing on the seamoth in the first place was a bit silly. Section Z fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Nov 19, 2017 |
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Nov 19, 2017 19:40
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They're the welcoming committee.
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Nov 19, 2017 19:58
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I prefer my fireworks above the water's surface.
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Nov 19, 2017 20:19
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Section Z posted:Good news! You need materials from their nest for early game progress Specifically, the repair tool and laser cutter. ???? That the wiki is dense on this too is weird as heck, but Crashfish are extremely easy. Put your fear aside and swim toward them. They can't turn for poo poo, and will blow before they can even begin to turn around.
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Nov 19, 2017 20:20
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Section Z posted:(you swim faster with no tools or knife held out) This makes no sense. Everybody know you
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Nov 19, 2017 20:56
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Unhappy Meal posted:???? Yeah that's how I deal with them, they're less fish and more tiny ballistic missiles.
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Nov 19, 2017 21:13
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OwlFancier posted:Yeah that's how I deal with them, they're less fish and more tiny ballistic missiles. I don't think they can even kill you if your health isn't low.
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Nov 19, 2017 21:27
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They shouldn't one shot you no but they do hurt quite a lot if you take a direct hit from one.
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Nov 19, 2017 21:35
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The General posted:This makes no sense. Everybody know you Only if you hold it in your teeth. 
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Nov 19, 2017 21:38
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Did they fix the performance/pop in? I haven't touched the game in a very long time, but checked the trello roadmap and saw nothing about performance stuff. Just various items of "RELEASE THE GAME" on the menu.
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Nov 28, 2017 12:19
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Not that I'm aware of!
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Nov 28, 2017 12:50
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They don't seem keen to reply when people ask about that on reddit. I have a horrible feeling it just won't happen, which will be farcical.
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Nov 28, 2017 13:02
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"Buy our game buildt around immersion (heh)! Where your immersion will constantly be broken! And just never go to the Mushroom Forest, trust us  "Nah, it's a pretty good game and I've more than gotten my moneys worth and then some. Just sad that it could have been truly great if they were a bit more focused and prioritized differently. Edit: Also gonna be funny on Twitch when it's released cause i know a couple of big streamers have been holding off for 1.0 while hyping the playthrough up, because: "they need to fix the loving pop-in!" Dongattack fucked around with this message at 13:13 on Nov 28, 2017 |
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Nov 28, 2017 13:09
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Dongattack posted:Did they fix the performance/pop in? I haven't touched the game in a very long time, but checked the trello roadmap and saw nothing about performance stuff. Just various items of "RELEASE THE GAME" on the menu. They just wait for everyone to have an SSD for game installs, if you only have a HDD expect a massive stutter
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Nov 28, 2017 13:56
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The popin happens on SSDs too, though I guess it's less bad? I can't even imagine this game on a HDD holy lol
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Nov 28, 2017 14:12
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I do have it on a SSD and it's still pretty bad, so if that's their solution IDK MAN! SOMETHINS FUCKY
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Nov 28, 2017 14:37
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Dongattack posted:I do have it on a SSD and it's still pretty bad, so if that's their solution IDK MAN! SOMETHINS FUCKY The last time I cranked up the game, I think I noticed it was no longer stopping to clone the entire game save (for a single save) folder into your programdata folder the first time you load your game? Which was implemented at first when single saves still reached over 2 gigs rather than a later trimmed down 1 gigish, and revealed to be working as intended (I first noticed when it ended up somehow barfed into my temp folder after closing the game one time). So if that's gone these days, it's technically an improvement if they don't think they need the "feature" of stopping to copy paste gigs of data while linking website articles from 2014and nervously tugging their collar saying "But everyone has a ton of disk space these days, so no biggie right?" for something that only nebulously improved performance in any way, maybe. They shouldn't have done such a silly thing in the first place either. At the very least, not when saves with relevant gameplay were still hitting the 2 gig range while still promising to fix that later (My most recent teleport around cheating lingering save is only in the 500 megabyte range, at least). But hey, a step forward in not having quite such a a crazy idea of what counts as "Performance optimization" still a step forward right? Because this is what they used to think optimization looked like.  EDIT: Well that's some encouraging things to see in a quick load up. Only a 40 megabyte tempsave folder, and they finally have a control panel in the Cyclops that lets you access your prawn inventory/modules 
Section Z fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Nov 28, 2017 |
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Nov 28, 2017 17:15
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Section Z posted:Speaking of crash fish. Have they finally dialed back on their suddenly deciding to take up triggering from seamoths driving past all the caves in the safe shallows and one-shooting your little submarine? Yeah, when this happened to my upgraded Seamoth I called it quits. Even with reinforced hull/damage resistance, a crashfish one-shotted it. Considering that your diver-man can take a crashfish to the face, one-shotting a Seamoth is extreme bullshit.
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Nov 28, 2017 19:19
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LuiCypher posted:Yeah, when this happened to my upgraded Seamoth I called it quits. Even with reinforced hull/damage resistance, a crashfish one-shotted it. Considering that your diver-man can take a crashfish to the face, one-shotting a Seamoth is extreme bullshit.
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Nov 28, 2017 19:26
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