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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:There honestly is a lot you could edit down to make it better. The worst part about it is how unnecessarily overlong it is. Especially the infodumps. They don't even bother trying to pace those out sensibly. They just drop hours and hours of infodumps on you instead fleshing out the world more organically. Parts of it can be a little overlong. As you say, Takeru seems to decide on things, then just revisit them over and over. I do appreciate how Takeru's point of view is framed though. I'm just past the Coup, and while Takeru feels like he should be going 'rah rah japan' and he knows the Americans are up to shenanigans, he still can't quite put himself in the mindset of the japanese rebels. His mindset is based off of modern japan's, and while he sort of wishes he could feel as strongly about Japan as the others do, in the end he's a modern global citizen. Usually in these tales, the protagonist tends end up agreeing with the 'rah rah japanese' sentiment, so I like that he can go 'I'm Japanese, and I love japan, but this weird feudal japanese-first viewpoint isn't worth seeing the world destroyed.'
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Nov 7, 2017 19:08
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SerCypher posted:Parts of it can be a little overlong. As you say, Takeru seems to decide on things, then just revisit them over and over. I like that he decides to react this way a little faster than Meiya, if I recall correctly.
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Nov 7, 2017 20:25
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There are definitely some somewhat weird nationalistic overtones in Muv-Luv at times, but I think it mostly handles it well enough. IIRC some of the spinoffs get a little ridiculous about it though; admittedly I'm only going off of heresay though cause I don't much of them got translated outside of that one bad anime.
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Nov 8, 2017 00:33
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Nate RFB posted:There are definitely some somewhat weird nationalistic overtones in Muv-Luv at times, but I think it mostly handles it well enough. IIRC some of the spinoffs get a little ridiculous about it though; admittedly I'm only going off of heresay though cause I don't much of them got translated outside of that one bad anime. That one bad anime? You mean Schwarzesmarken or Total Eclipse?
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Nov 8, 2017 00:48
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I was definitely only thinking of Total Eclipse and completely forgot Schwarzesmarken existed. I honestly can't remember what spinoffs are actually supposed to be decent. Chicken Divers I think was one? Outside of Alternative the franchise is pretty spotty to say the least.
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Nov 8, 2017 00:53
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This is tangential to the thread but I got an email from Netflix about a new Fate series (Apocrypha?). Those are based on VNs, right? Any worth checking out or watching adaptations of or is it all cheesecake nonsense? I'm still dying over here waiting for Higurashi 6+ and if a weird anime might scratch that VN itch I want to know about it. I literally know nothing about the series(franchise? I don't even know if they're all related) other than the fact that they have backslashes in some of the titles, give me the overview from 10,000 feet if possible.
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Nov 8, 2017 02:16
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food court bailiff posted:This is tangential to the thread but I got an email from Netflix about a new Fate series (Apocrypha?). Those are based on VNs, right? Any worth checking out or watching adaptations of or is it all cheesecake nonsense? I'm still dying over here waiting for Higurashi 6+ and if a weird anime might scratch that VN itch I want to know about it. Series Ovierview The world actually has secret magic users, and periodically a group of 7 summon historical figures along with 7 mages fight a war with each other to get a wish-granting holy grail. That is basically all you need to know about the series before watching a series. The VNs got popular because the fight scenes are well written and the characters are generally pretty cool. How to watch the animes Apocrypha is not based on any VN, and is set in a parallel universe, so I believe it doesn't spoil anything (someone correct me if I'm wrong). I have no idea if it is good or not. If you plan to watch the rest of the anime series, keep in mind that UBW (the good anime people tell you to watch first) is actually the 2nd route of the VN. The anime based on the first route was bad. The anime for the 3rd route isn't out yet, and Fate Zero spoils that, so don't watch it until you read the VNs or watch that anime first. So in other words: Apocraphia - watch whenever the hell you want FSN original bad anime/route 1 of main VN -> UBW anime/route 2 -> HF anime(unreleased)/route 3 -> Fate Zero and/or Ataraxia If you don't follow the above order, there will be spoilers Don't watch the Ilya anime because apparently it is for pedophiles. Edit: Ataraxia has a moderate size spoiler for route one of FSN. (thanks to NRVNQSR) MegaZeroX fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Nov 8, 2017 |
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Nov 8, 2017 02:30
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food court bailiff posted:This is tangential to the thread but I got an email from Netflix about a new Fate series (Apocrypha?). Those are based on VNs, right? Any worth checking out or watching adaptations of or is it all cheesecake nonsense? I'm still dying over here waiting for Higurashi 6+ and if a weird anime might scratch that VN itch I want to know about it.  y and full of wizard technobabble, but for what it is I think it features some good character work/arcs and some stellar action setpieces.Since it got popular it now has a million spinoffs/adaptions of varying levels of "you need/do not need to know XYZ from the other works to understand" but for now if you're at all interested I'd give the VN a look. I still think it's pretty alright. Some people will tell you to watch the Fate/Zero and/or Unlimited Blade Works anime but *shrug*, I still prefer the VN as a point of introduction. I'm really looking forward to the Heaven's Feel anime movies coming out soon, because they are adapting the final route from the VN which features a dizzying array of awesome fights in its endgame.
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Nov 8, 2017 02:40
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How do people feel about western VNs, I get the sense based on the general silence on forums that they're generally terrible. I'm worried that even bringing up Christine Love's name will generate a chorus of laughter (I liked Analogue but Hate Plus was not great). But there are a lot a lot a lot of VNs on Steam and itch.io and I'm sure some are good?? I already did Doki Doki but I have Hustle Cat from a bundle. And someone recommended Butterfly Soup to me. There's a f2p otome VN called Cinderella Phenomenon that has overwhelmingly positive reviews but the art looks like a real mixed bag. I tried a demo of Icebound and it was okay but the puzzles in the game seem forced into the story for the sake of having a gameplay mechanic. I'll file ironic Sakura/Nekopara/Hunie recs under D for Dumpster
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Nov 8, 2017 03:22
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Quest For Glory II posted:How do people feel about western VNs, I get the sense based on the general silence on forums that they're generally terrible. I'm worried that even bringing up Christine Love's name will generate a chorus of laughter (I liked Analogue but Hate Plus was not great). But there are a lot a lot a lot of VNs on Steam and itch.io and I'm sure some are good?? I already did Doki Doki but I have Hustle Cat from a bundle. And someone recommended Butterfly Soup to me. There's a f2p otome VN called Cinderella Phenomenon that has overwhelmingly positive reviews but the art looks like a real mixed bag. I tried a demo of Icebound and it was okay but the puzzles in the game seem forced into the story for the sake of having a gameplay mechanic. Hanako Games does good work, even if her stuff usually has enough actual gameplay to not really be a "pure" VN, Long Live the Queen and Black Closet are both highlights. Christine Love's newest game is legit really good and has probably the best dialogue/choice system I've seen in any VN, but it's also at least 60% porn so it does not belong in this thread.
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Nov 8, 2017 03:36
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To me, stuff like What Remains of Edith Finch and Gone Home are basically western VNs and are good But I guess that isn't what you're talking about
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Nov 8, 2017 03:39
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I honestly don't get the strong adoration or the strong hate people have for Gone Home. It's one of the least notable, most milquetoast games I've ever played.
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Nov 8, 2017 03:42
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I shouldn't have used that example, I've never played it, haha. I just meant games in that form I guess seem like western equivalent of VNs to me Edith Finch is good though!
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Nov 8, 2017 03:43
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thought of a couple good freeware western otome vns Aloners - post apocalyptic poo poo. Deals primarily with the heroine's relationship with one single, focal dude; and you get a shitton of dialogue choices to flesh your character's personality out. Been a couple years but I was engrossed enough that I played through the whole dang thing in one sitting. Our Personal Space - uniquely for a VN, you start the game married and spend the game developing your relationship with your husband. The premise is that you're both colonists, sent to be among the first people to live on a Miracle New Earthlike Planet. You choose the heroine's job and skillset as she works to help make the colony a more livable place, and it's honestly satisfying in a, like, The Martian way. both are a decent length- 4-5 hours maybe? Our Personal Space has more to see through separate playthroughs than Aloners. dmboogie fucked around with this message at 04:04 on Nov 8, 2017 |
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Nov 8, 2017 03:48
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apropros of nothing, the VN which is undoubtedly the most original I've read and also the most insane/badly translated is Cyber City 2157. It's unfinished and hops from storyline to storyline with pretty much no rhythm, but I found sheer strangeness of its premises and the aura of mystique the garbled translation lends it to be compelling enough to read through it once (my playtime is 2 hours). Definitely wait for a sale if you get it since it goes super cheap, and dont expect any kind of closure from any of the plotlines.
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Nov 8, 2017 03:57
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Stefan Prodan posted:Edith Finch is good though!
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Nov 8, 2017 04:01
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Quest For Glory II posted:How do people feel about western VNs, I get the sense based on the general silence on forums that they're generally terrible. I'm worried that even bringing up Christine Love's name will generate a chorus of laughter (I liked Analogue but Hate Plus was not great). But there are a lot a lot a lot of VNs on Steam and itch.io and I'm sure some are good?? I already did Doki Doki but I have Hustle Cat from a bundle. And someone recommended Butterfly Soup to me. There's a f2p otome VN called Cinderella Phenomenon that has overwhelmingly positive reviews but the art looks like a real mixed bag. I tried a demo of Icebound and it was okay but the puzzles in the game seem forced into the story for the sake of having a gameplay mechanic. how do you feel about sincere nekopara recs
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Nov 8, 2017 04:05
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that said it is technically invalid since it is a bonafide Japanese tiddy game and not a bad western imitator thereof
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Nov 8, 2017 04:07
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Stexils posted:apropros of nothing, the VN which is undoubtedly the most original I've read and also the most insane/badly translated is Cyber City 2157. It's unfinished and hops from storyline to storyline with pretty much no rhythm, but I found sheer strangeness of its premises and the aura of mystique the garbled translation lends it to be compelling enough to read through it once (my playtime is 2 hours).
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Nov 8, 2017 04:26
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FractalSandwich posted:Have you considered playing games in a language you only half understand, and inventing your own garbled translation? I know it's made some things much more interesting for me in the past. sadly there are no languages I half understand, only languages I fully don't understand, though if you're a bad 90s translator hmu
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Nov 8, 2017 04:28
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I've finally gotten to the point where The Beta Attack and I don't know if I've seen a VN that's done a better job of representing chaos. I especially like all the different people on the radio trying to yell over each other.
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Nov 8, 2017 04:30
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Has anyone played Cinders? It's one I've had my eye on for a while, but never actually pulled the trigger on. As for western VNs I've actually played, I consider To The Moon to be close enough to a VN. There's also Juniper's Knot that I quite enjoyed.
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Nov 8, 2017 04:37
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Katawa shoujo is the only good western vn and it literally is just aping Japanese vns
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Nov 8, 2017 04:38
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SealHammer posted:Katawa shoujo is the only good western vn and it literally is just aping Japanese vns
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Nov 8, 2017 04:41
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SealHammer posted:Katawa shoujo is the only good western vn and it literally is just aping Japanese vns you’re wrong but it is decent to great, depending on the route. and also it does not belong in this thread
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Nov 8, 2017 04:41
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I think generally, adventure games take the place of visual novels in the west. I separate the visual styling of VNs from the concept and gameplay. I'd call VNs "Slow Paced interactive fiction, usually with lot's of character interaction, and multiple routes" So western stuff like Journey or One Shot are close enough that I'd basically consider them in a similar category to VNs (even though they don't have animes).
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Nov 8, 2017 04:57
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My favourite kinetic novel is Uncharted.
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Nov 8, 2017 05:14
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unpronounceable posted:Has anyone played Cinders? It's one I've had my eye on for a while, but never actually pulled the trigger on. Other western VNs I have really enjoyed: -We Know The Devil- a weird and creepy camp story with some great atmospheric sound work. -Seconding Hanako Games. The Royal Trap/The Confines of the Crown is a more traditional VN than some of their other games, and it is one of those rare otomes with a really interesting and cool protagonist. -The Choice of... series also are basically visual novels imo. They might have a bad reputation because their breakout novels were kinda cringey, but Sabres of Infinity and A Study in Steampunk: Choice by Gaslight are legitimately great. They are fantasy Napoleonic cavalry simulator and fantasy Holmes/Watson simulator, respectively, and very well written. There is some good stuff being produced. I don't think it's a laughable or lesser genre at all. EDIT- added links for your convenience! Orbs fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Nov 8, 2017 |
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Nov 8, 2017 05:42
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MegaZeroX posted:Apocrypha is not based on any VN, and is set in a parallel universe, so I believe it doesn't spoil anything (someone correct me if I'm wrong). I have no idea if it is good or not. FractalSandwich posted:My favourite kinetic novel is Uncharted.
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Nov 8, 2017 22:27
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As a side note, if you have kept up with or want to fill out a VNDB account, vnstat.net is a decent little recommendation engine. Usually takes a day to filter over but, this is my account for example. I just finished Analogue, which was pretty neat. I'm going to start reading Lucid9, or Don't take it personally babe since I'm out of big name VNs until I get the Dies Irae DLC or another chapter of Higurashi. I'd read Root Double but for some odd reason, it doesn't like it when I remote desktop to my home PC from anywhere to read. 
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Nov 8, 2017 23:55
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If you're gonna play Don't Take It Personally Babe, try to have low expectations. It's just not that good of a game.
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Nov 8, 2017 23:58
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NRVNQSR posted:As of halfway through Apocrypha has had some spoilers for Fate's first route, if you're somehow so unaware of the series that you don't know F/SN Saber's true identity. It's a decent enough series but it's certainly not the franchise at its best. That’s a very minor spoiler, right? I don’t think this warrants spoilers, but IIRC, there are about 12 different Sabers in the series that all look the same because the artist likes that design for Saber, but there’s no particular reason they are or are not a given historical/mythological figure.
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Nov 9, 2017 01:53
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Double Punctuation posted:That’s a very minor spoiler, right? I don’t think this warrants spoilers, but IIRC, there are about 12 different Sabers in the series that all look the same because the artist likes that design for Saber, but there’s no particular reason they are or are not a given historical/mythological figure. I'd say that watching Apocrypha makes it very clear that (F/SN spoiler)F/SN Saber is King Arthur. Even taking into account the frequency of Saberfaces in the franchise they use the exact same costume for her as F/SN does, so there's not really any reason for viewers to doubt it. There's certainly an argument that that counts as a minor spoiler by now because almost everyone already knows it, but it was intended to be at least a somewhat surprising revelation in the original VN so if someone is lucky enough to be coming at it fresh then I'd consider it a spoiler.
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Nov 9, 2017 02:06
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NRVNQSR posted:I'd say that watching Apocrypha makes it very clear that (F/SN spoiler)F/SN Saber is King Arthur. Even taking into account the frequency of Saberfaces in the franchise they use the exact same costume for her as F/SN does, so there's not really any reason for viewers to doubt it. There's certainly an argument that that counts as a minor spoiler by now because almost everyone already knows it, but it was intended to be at least a somewhat surprising revelation in the original VN so if someone is lucky enough to be coming at it fresh then I'd consider it a spoiler. I read the VN blind a few years ago and enjoyed figuring out the servants' real identities. A lot of the other properties like Fate:GO just refer to the servants by their names (obviously it would be confusing to have a bunch of different characters just called "Rider") so I imagine a lot of western fans will get incidentally spoiled since they seemed determined to localize and sell every bit of apocrypha (pun intended) related to the franchise except the actual VN. Has there ever been an official explanation for why they're holding off? I always heard it was too long, but IIRC when they most recently put out the all ages version on PC again they split it up by route anyway, so you'd think they could put it out in chunks like Higurashi and make some decent money.
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Nov 9, 2017 02:59
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Randallteal posted:Has there ever been an official explanation for why they're holding off? I always heard it was too long, but IIRC when they most recently put out the all ages version on PC again they split it up by route anyway, so you'd think they could put it out in chunks like Higurashi and make some decent money. I had like 50+ hours on the in-game clock when I finished Heaven's Feel (the split PC dl Realta Nua version, shares save data between the routes for unlocks and whatnot), and granted that I don't read japanese quite as fast as english, but yeah, it's LONG long.
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Nov 9, 2017 07:26
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Randallteal posted:I read the VN blind a few years ago and enjoyed figuring out the servants' real identities. A lot of the other properties like Fate:GO just refer to the servants by their names (obviously it would be confusing to have a bunch of different characters just called "Rider") so I imagine a lot of western fans will get incidentally spoiled since they seemed determined to localize and sell every bit of apocrypha (pun intended) related to the franchise except the actual VN. GO specifically has a huge spoiler for Unlimited Blade Works just casually out in the open, which you can stumble upon within like fifteen minutes of starting the game. They don't seem to care about spoilers in GO at all.
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Nov 9, 2017 08:05
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I really have strongly mixed feelings about Fate: SN, I can certainly see the appeal of it and some of the big plot reveals, like the identities of certain summons, were cool plot points that I didn't see coming but like I just didn't think they were executed all that well. I mean overall it wasn't bad, I just thought it had more potential than it fulfilled. I also watched the other Fate thing that's on netflix, and that one sucked except for the Rider (Alexander)who ruled. All the other characters were pretty bad I thought.
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Nov 9, 2017 09:09
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unpronounceable posted:Has anyone played Cinders? It's one I've had my eye on for a while, but never actually pulled the trigger on. Yeah, I like Cinders and thought it was pretty good. They're not quite the same but a lot of things in the VN/point and click adventure/first person narrative/IF space I feel like are basically enjoyable for similar reasons. There might be more good western VNs but they're nearly always made on a budget of pocket lint, which usually means at least the visuals suffer (or editing, or sound design, or voice acting if it even exists), making people not really want to take a chance on them. Yakiniku Teishoku fucked around with this message at 10:45 on Nov 9, 2017 |
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Nov 9, 2017 10:41
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Randallteal posted:Has there ever been an official explanation for why they're holding off? I always heard it was too long, but IIRC when they most recently put out the all ages version on PC again they split it up by route anyway, so you'd think they could put it out in chunks like Higurashi and make some decent money. I think it's just a case of too much work for not enough money. Nasu's always been too protective of his core novels to just hand them off to translators and let them do it cheaply, but at the same time he doesn't even have time to make progress on his Japanese commitments let alone enough time to be involved in translation. If Fate/GO continues to grow I think Aniplex might make a push to try and get the mobile ports of F/SN localised, but even that's a long shot.
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Nov 9, 2017 11:21
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Stefan Prodan posted:I also watched the other Fate thing that's on netflix, and that one sucked except for the Rider (Alexander)who ruled. All the other characters were pretty bad I thought. I will say that despite being a big FSN fan, when I went back to replay it when the PC Realta Nua patches came out a lot of it was kind of miserable because so much of it is filled with (now) tedious exposition that is completely unnecessary to someone very familiar with the franchise at this point. It's very much not a replayable story (compared to other long VNs IMO like Steins;Gate, Higurashi, Umineko, or Muv-Luv). The highs (certain reveals, fights, musical cues) still landed and I glad I did it but woof, it took me well over a year to get through it a second time.
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Nov 9, 2017 12:18
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