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Vidaeus posted:I'd like to give DDLC a go but I'm not very good with horror games or movies It's not jump scary, particularly, but there's plenty about it to inspire dread. BioEnchanted posted:Because I kept hearing about it (and it's infamous translation issues) in the RPG thread in Games, I've started playing through the original Wild Arms. I'm enjoying it so far, I like that true to life, Guns are really powerful, but best saved for emergencies, and the intro to Jack's first chapter was hilarious with the boulders and spears chasing him through an increasingly elaborate dungeon. I also like that you can change characters whenever you want, and get prompted to at each chapter break, it feels pretty loose and less linear than it otherwise would be. Pretty fun so far. Wild Arms is one of my favorite old RPGs; I don't know how well the gameplay has held up, but I think those charming little sprites and that awesome soundtrack are timelessly great. Have fun!
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Nov 7, 2017 22:49
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Glagha posted:"Explain to me why this joke is funny." I can explain why every game I think is scary is scary, though, so this doesn't really apply. I legit don't see what "horror" themes there are supposed to be. When I think of horror in recent games I think of things like P.T. and Soma. I definitely don't think of UnderTale. Who What Now has a new favorite as of 22:53 on Nov 7, 2017 |
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Nov 7, 2017 22:51
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Who What Now posted:I can explain why every game I think is scary is scary, though, so this doesn't really apply. Go on, then. Give us an example. This is the right thread for it.
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Nov 7, 2017 22:52
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Who What Now posted:I can explain why every game I think is scary is scary, though, so this doesn't really apply. Like is horror not horror if a monster doesn't jump out and spook you?
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Nov 7, 2017 22:56
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I'm liking the logical pacing in Wild Arms - Just did the first chapters of Rudy and Jack, then went back to the Rudy to see what his story did next - however, while Rudy's story appears to be stalled until the festival I know why - Jack hasn't arrived at the town yet, but I know that that's his next destination, and the girl I haven't played as yet needs to arrive before the festival goes underway due to her being likely an important part of it. It's stalled, but I know why. I also like that the paths aren't arbitrarily blocked - Rudy can immediately go say hi to Jack and check out his intro level even though he has no idea what to do there, and can visit the monastery although he knows no magic. I like seeing the main characters all doing their own thing, that you know where they all are and what they are doing, it feels like a proto-GTA5, a little bit. Although a more accurate comparison may be Project Eden on the PS2, where you can switch freely between the four PCs, and there is a point where one of them, the hacker, gets captured late in the game. It doesn't take her out of your party though - you can still switch to her. You just can't do anything because your stuck in a cell with no equipment, and that's cool to me. BioEnchanted has a new favorite as of 23:02 on Nov 7, 2017 |
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Nov 7, 2017 22:57
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Somfin posted:Go on, then. Give us an example. This is the right thread for it. Aight, one of my favorite horror games, P.T. is unsettling because it explains very little and leaves so much to the imagination. The hallway is cramped, making you feel trapped, but also long so that you can imagine something being able to creep up behind you. The blind corner could hide something when you turn down it (and in fact at least once it does), and, again, the length of the hallway gives you plenty of time to build up dread while walking down it. Even when there's nothing there it feels unsettling because the whole layout seems subtlety wrong. It's a single hallway with one corner, and it's infinitely scarier than PhotorealisticBloodSonic.exe. E Glagha posted:Like is horror not horror if a monster doesn't jump out and spook you? Horror isn't horror when there's nothing spooky, period.
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Nov 7, 2017 23:00
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Ehhhh, my fav part was actually the first chapter, where you know that things are going to go wrong but you don't know how, then when the shoe finally drops it's too late and how they handle that was pretty creepy Like, a growing sense of dread, kinda dealio
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Nov 7, 2017 23:02
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FactsAreUseless posted:I thought it was pretty minimal. There's like two jump scares and some blood. I think it depends on whether you get invested into the characters, which you shouldn't, because they're broad archetypes instead of real people. "You shouldn't get invested in these people, it's just a video game, idiot," is one of the more pointed criticisms the game levels against dating VNs and the people that take them seriously. Whether that lands for you is like the biggest YMMV ever, naturally. But I went into the story prepared to treat them as characters in any other story -- in other words, "functionally real," although obviously not actually real since I don't live in an anime high school world, so the big twist at the end of the first act was an effective swerve for me. Since the rest of the game is pretty deliberately the game collapsing in on itself, you're not supposed to take the rest of it as reality since the game is making no attempt at doing so. The characters absolutely don't have depth, you're right. I think the horror bent is more "unsettling" than anything else, because you're not really supposed to be invested in the characters, since the facade of reality completely is washed away in the second act, so the only "horror" part is the uncertainty and dread what's coming next. Danaru posted:More DDLC stuff: The whole Just Monika thing fell super flat for me because she openly admits to using her friends mental illnesses as weapons and causing them to commit suicide, which is loving atrocious from a Monika standpoint, and exploitative and lovely from a writing standpoint. Everyone praises the writing for having realistic portrayals of mental illness, but in the end it's just a tool for the main goal of having them kill themselves and make the player sad. So not only do I hate Monika but now the writing's got me hacked off too. Also why did Monika cranking depression to 100 make peoples eyes bleed pixelated blood and do other creepypasta stuff? The more I think about DDLC the more annoyed I get. Maybe I read the whole thing wrong since I never really see anyone echoing the same sentiments, but ugh. You're reading it wrong. The only mental illness part that people were praising is the portrayal of Sayori at the end of act one, when the characters are still presented straight. I don't think anyone, including the game's writer, was trying to present act 2 Yuri as a well-written character, but that's because Monika is not a good character writer. Also some of the more hidden messages in the game imply strongly that Monika didn't really alter Sayori's mental state; she was pretty much on the cusp anyway. Natsuki being starved to death by her father or Yuri's self-harm were definitely creations of Monika because those barely at all manifest in the "normal" act 1. The creepypasta stuff is insanely stupid though. I don't think these are illegitimate criticisms against the game itself, and I think part of the game's punch -- for better or for worse -- is the fact that it's so short. It doesn't have enough time to invest you in the setting or the characters or the nature of the world, but it also wastes no time in rattling your cage and the rest of the game is kind of a whirlwind of poo poo happening. That was effective for me. But there's no horror story or psych story that works for everyone, and it is OK to not like a video game. 
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Nov 7, 2017 23:05
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I think watching what was supposed to be a happy, idyllic scenario slowly degrade while some outside force causes the people around you to act increasingly out of character and unstable is kind of a scary thing but that's just me. It's not a perfect game. Some of the stuff that happens later is downright goofy to the point I laughed out loud at at. It's still a horror game.
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Nov 7, 2017 23:09
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Also:FactsAreUseless posted:Lmao at this post with that avatar. 
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Nov 7, 2017 23:10
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RyokoTK posted:"You shouldn't get invested in these people, it's just a video game, idiot," is one of the more pointed criticisms the game levels against dating VNs and the people that take them seriously. It's also why it isn't scary for the same reason the first Saw movie isn't scary. You can't build tension with characters you barely know (or in Saw's case, don't know at all, because it's paced like a Family Guy episode).
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Nov 7, 2017 23:24
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RyokoTK posted:You're reading it wrong. The only mental illness part that people were praising is the portrayal of Sayori at the end of act one, when the characters are still presented straight. I don't think anyone, including the game's writer, was trying to present act 2 Yuri as a well-written character, but that's because Monika is not a good character writer. Also some of the more hidden messages in the game imply strongly that Monika didn't really alter Sayori's mental state; she was pretty much on the cusp anyway. Natsuki being starved to death by her father or Yuri's self-harm were definitely creations of Monika because those barely at all manifest in the "normal" act 1. I've seen people say good things specifically about Yuri's obsession with cutting and how it's done fairly well at being portrayed as a physical addiction, as well as her always wearing long sleeves to hide it. I wouldn't know since I've never been a cutter, but I can hella relate to Sayori's situation which is why it cheeses me off so much. I'm also 80% sure Natsuki implies her dad doesn't feed her if she doesn't finish her entire meal during the scene where you bake cupcakes with her, before Monika takes over.
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Nov 7, 2017 23:25
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Yuri's stuff is in act 1 as well, if she comes to your house ou walk in on her hiding her arm. That and Sayori were good bits of writing that were pretty relatable and well handled.
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Nov 7, 2017 23:33
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Glagha posted:I think watching what was supposed to be a happy, idyllic scenario slowly degrade while some outside force causes the people around you to act increasingly out of character and unstable is kind of a scary thing but that's just me. It's not a perfect game. Some of the stuff that happens later is downright goofy to the point I laughed out loud at at. It's still a horror game. If a game falling apart is scary then Assassin's Creed Unity is the pinnacle of horror. 
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Nov 7, 2017 23:47
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Who What Now posted:If a game falling apart is scary then Assassin's Creed Unity is the pinnacle of horror.  Checks out.
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Nov 7, 2017 23:49
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:Yuri's stuff is in act 1 as well, if she comes to your house ou walk in on her hiding her arm. That and Sayori were good bits of writing that were pretty relatable and well handled.
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Nov 7, 2017 23:50
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I love how lovely anime game with dark secret is a loving cliche now. I'm pretty sure the content warning is just a ploy to drum up buzz for the game because I doubt anyone would actually be able to take it's very special episode shallow treatment of depression seriously.
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Nov 8, 2017 00:07
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The content warning is there because otherwise almost everyone would check out before the initial hour of completely ordinary and boring harem VN bullshit ends.
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Nov 8, 2017 00:18
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rodbeard posted:I love how lovely anime game with dark secret is a loving cliche now. I'm pretty sure the content warning is just a ploy to drum up buzz for the game because I doubt anyone would actually be able to take it's very special episode shallow treatment of depression seriously. The warning actually turned a friend of mine off of it because he has had suicidal thoughts in the past and didn't want to risk bringing those thoughts back up. But I'm sure you're right that it's just there to get people interested. Edit: I actually feel bad that it got so much publicity since a lot of the themes and beats are aimed at people who normally play VNs. It's like telling someone who doesn't like shooters to play spec ops: the line because it did interesting things with the tropes and cliches of the genre. Poops Mcgoots has a new favorite as of 00:25 on Nov 8, 2017 |
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Nov 8, 2017 00:19
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I get that its Cool and Good to hate on games that people like, but I really liked DDLC. I don't know poo poo about the genre, so I was happy with how everything was presented. And it ignited a love of 4th wall breaking games in me. This is your daily reminder that because someone else likes something that you don't, doesn't mean you have to spend time telling them they are wrong. It's cool, lets just enjoy little things in games.
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Nov 8, 2017 00:39
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The content warning genuinely is what got me interested in DDLC though.
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Nov 8, 2017 00:39
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Poops Mcgoots posted:The warning actually turned a friend of mine off of it because he has had suicidal thoughts in the past and didn't want to risk bringing those thoughts back up. But I'm sure you're right that it's just there to get people interested. I've been on antidepressants for a decade and I'm saying if they really cared they would have not been so exploitive in the first place. I find it hard to find horror games that don't mean heavily on mental illness or rape imagery. I guess this is the wrong thread for the discussion it's just something that gets under my skin.
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Nov 8, 2017 00:48
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rodbeard posted:I've been on antidepressants for a decade and I'm saying if they really cared they would have not been so exploitive in the first place. I find it hard to find horror games that don't mean heavily on mental illness or rape imagery. I guess this is the wrong thread for the discussion it's just something that gets under my skin. On the other hand I know several people suffering from serious depression who found it painful but also found it empowering because it actually spoke to things they personally experienced. So maybe hopping to "they're just trying to exploit me" is a bit much. I don't think as much of it as some people but there are bits of it which really really strike home as being written by someone who actually has experience with depression, not just someone trying to exploit it for funsizes. ImpAtom has a new favorite as of 00:53 on Nov 8, 2017 |
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Nov 8, 2017 00:51
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Just because a lot of people say they liked a thing doesn't mean they all think it's the best thing ever and it's groundbreaking or anything like that, just that they liked it.
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Nov 8, 2017 00:58
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Lechtansi posted:I get that its Cool and Good to hate on games that people like, but I really liked DDLC. I don't know poo poo about the genre, so I was happy with how everything was presented. And it ignited a love of 4th wall breaking games in me. This is a daily reminder that people saying they didn't like something and explaining why they didn't like it is not a personal attack against you.
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Nov 8, 2017 01:03
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BioEnchanted posted:I'm liking the logical pacing in Wild Arms - Just did the first chapters of Rudy and Jack, then went back to the Rudy to see what his story did next - however, while Rudy's story appears to be stalled until the festival I know why - Jack hasn't arrived at the town yet, but I know that that's his next destination, and the girl I haven't played as yet needs to arrive before the festival goes underway due to her being likely an important part of it. It's stalled, but I know why. I also like that the paths aren't arbitrarily blocked - Rudy can immediately go say hi to Jack and check out his intro level even though he has no idea what to do there, and can visit the monastery although he knows no magic. I like seeing the main characters all doing their own thing, that you know where they all are and what they are doing, it feels like a proto-GTA5, a little bit. Ty for casually dropping this between even more posts about sad anime game. I'm not sure why this voice line is in the game but I was getting sieged by a couple high elf stacks and it was going off constantly.
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Nov 8, 2017 01:12
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1stGear posted:The content warning is there because otherwise almost everyone would check out before the initial hour of completely ordinary and boring harem VN bullshit ends. Yeah this is probably accurate, but also yeah agree on the "it would be inappropriate to spring this on someone who might be sensitive to it" thing. That said, when it got to the file manipulation stuff I was pretty impressed with that element. For the rest of the game I kept opening and closing the character folder to see if anyone came or went.
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Nov 8, 2017 01:17
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Goddamit X-Wing you are a harsh mistress. The game has a fetish for putting you in a Y-Wing (which handles like a goddamn bus) and telling you to protect a shuttle being assaulted by wave after wave of TIE Interceptors. Naturally your wingmen hyperspace out of there at the earliest opportunity leaving you to deal with them on your own. Also, there's no checkpoints, so get 17 minutes into a 20-minute mission and gently caress up once and you're toast. I'm going to beat this game if it fuckin' kills me though.
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Nov 8, 2017 01:30
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ImpAtom posted:On the other hand I know several people suffering from serious depression who found it painful but also found it empowering because it actually spoke to things they personally experienced. So maybe hopping to "they're just trying to exploit me" is a bit much. I was on board with it right up until it took the "lol I'm so wacky I'm using the actual game files to make them all crazy and bad" curve and that just really made the game kind of garbage to me and soured me on the poo poo that wasn't done badly in the first bit as well. It's very rare that video games manage to break the fourth wall or engage in meta narrative stuff in ways that aren't super obnoxious and often in poor taste, and this was not one of them. So basically I just checked out completely after the first playthrough because it wasn't interesting anymore. The characters lost all depth and the one character who was "real" you barely ever interacted with so it was hard to even like or hate them. They just occasionally popped up to tell you how lovely everyone else was until the very end where they just monologue at you until you get bored and delete them to get the next ending. Nuebot has a new favorite as of 02:56 on Nov 8, 2017 |
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Nov 8, 2017 02:08
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Please don't post unmarked spoilers.
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Nov 8, 2017 02:25
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FactsAreUseless posted:Which is another thing that doesn't add up with what the game sets out to do. I think this one can depend on how well you relate to the admittedly-broadly-written issues it delves into early, especially with Sayori. For a lot of my friends who've played it they could really relate to that depiction of the issue, either personally or through seeing friends exhibit similar, so it gave them a lot to dread and fear. That doesn't do the whole thing, though, because the content warning also waves that flag really well. It might not work for a lot of people on a personal level, but I think (as well as being totally valid to put into a game like this) it can act as a green light to let your brain do the work for it. It tells you 'hey, this takes a turn', then gives you a few warning signs that would otherwise mean very little but lets you worry about what they might mean, and has you do all of its buildup for it. It doesn't work for everyone, horror is very subjective anyway, but if you're the type to latch onto small signs of wrongness and jump at shadows out of fear that evdntually one will have something in it, it works. Cleretic has a new favorite as of 03:00 on Nov 8, 2017 |
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Nov 8, 2017 02:31
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RyokoTK posted:Please don't post unmarked spoilers. Very sorry.
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Nov 8, 2017 02:56
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flatluigi posted:Just because a lot of people say they liked a thing doesn't mean they all think it's the best thing ever and it's groundbreaking or anything like that, just that they liked it. Unless they're talking about videogame's magnum opus, the second coming of Jesus that brings games to a level beyond art like movies, Dark Souls! It's absolutely flawless.
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Nov 8, 2017 02:57
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Cleretic posted:I think this one can depend on how well you relate to the admittedly-broadly-written issues it delves into early, especially with Sayori. For a lot of my friends who've played it they could really relate to that depiction of the issue, either personally or through seeing friends exhibit similar, so it gave them a lot to dread and fear. It would have been better just being a visual novel about growing up with depression, because, subjective or not, I honestly don't know how things like this are supposed to be scary.
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Nov 8, 2017 03:02
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I've gotta hand it to indie anime games, almost managing to catch up with Disney Channel cartoons from half a decade ago.
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Nov 8, 2017 03:08
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I just played DDLC and now I feel bad.
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Nov 8, 2017 03:15
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Who What Now posted:It would have been better just being a visual novel about growing up with depression, because, subjective or not, I honestly don't know how things like this are supposed to be scary. I don't know if that's supposed to be 'scary' so much as 'startling', but a lot of those parts of DDLC are all about combining little starts like that with more constant low-key wrongness to make you feel uncomfortable, which does a lot of the work for some people. Again, horror? Totally subjective, what works on me might not work on you and vice versa. So I don't think it's a fault of the game that it doesn't work on you so much. I have separate thoughts on if a totally normal VN about teenage depression would be good, it's all down to execution. The first part of DDLC might well be a good start in that figuring, but I'd say probably not.
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Nov 8, 2017 04:08
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I think of Wild Arms 2 as being nothing BUT little things I enjoy, bolted onto the seething mass that is the game's plot/translation. The first game's translation was at absolute worst a little dry, with a couple of grammar or spelling errors. WA2 has Liz and Ard.
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Nov 8, 2017 04:48
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Honestly surprised that after so long no one did a fan translation from Japanese to English that actually made sense (WA2)
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Nov 8, 2017 06:02
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BioEnchanted posted:Honestly surprised that after so long no one did a fan translation from Japanese to English that actually made sense (WA2) Wild Arms 2 is actually a pretty difficult translation. The script has a lot of nonsense jargon and weird wordplay and the game itself isn't really popular enough to get a dedicated effort. Keep in mind that even Final Fantasy 7 probably the most popular JRPG of all time and one which has a pretty poo poo translation, has all of 1 retranslation which is a low-effort one, and FF7 is a way way way easier translation job than WA2.
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Nov 8, 2017 06:16
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