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Chilichimp posted:US Pol is the thread where leftists poo poo on the liberals. That and hilarious post-revolution revenge fantasy fan fiction.
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Nov 8, 2017 22:04
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Talmonis posted:I honestly don't have any issue with you Wampa, you haven't called Liberals "the enemy" or claim we're all racist, that I've seen. Thanks, I guess. Will it make you consider my points at all, or are you still dying for another Obama to come along and swindle you again with campaign promises that they have no intention of fulfilling?
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Nov 8, 2017 22:05
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https://twitter.com/SheriffClarke/status/928340680518324225
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Nov 8, 2017 22:05
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Nov 8, 2017 22:06
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Nov 8, 2017 22:06
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hahaha
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Nov 8, 2017 22:06
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lmao
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Nov 8, 2017 22:07
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Nov 8, 2017 22:08
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WampaLord posted:Because the house is burning down and the Dems were watching it happen (and in some cases actively fanning the flames) the whole time. As some of the posts above will demonstrate, they have no intention of working with Democrats at all. Democrats are corrupt as an organization, but are the only thing standing between the vulnerable and the right. Forcing them left from within is viable (and utterly paramount), long term. But again, we need to work with the centrists too. Possibly most of all, as they have all the funding. If they get pushed out of the party, they'll end up Republican, and we can't afford that.
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Nov 8, 2017 22:10
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WampaLord posted:Thanks, I guess. Will it make you consider my points at all, or are you still dying for another Obama to come along and swindle you again with campaign promises that they have no intention of fulfilling? Absolutely. I don't agree that Obama was nearly as bad as you're making out, but he sure as hell could have been better. Better being further left.
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Nov 8, 2017 22:12
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uhhhhhhhh uuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
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Nov 8, 2017 22:13
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Talmonis posted:As some of the posts above will demonstrate, they have no intention of working with Democrats at all. Democrats are corrupt as an organization, but are the only thing standing between the vulnerable and the right. Forcing them left from within is viable (and utterly paramount), long term. But again, we need to work with the centrists too. Possibly most of all, as they have all the funding. If they get pushed out of the party, they'll end up Republican, and we can't afford that. Now hold on a sec, aren't the centrists the people who've been yelling about how you must always vote D forever and anybody who disagrees is a horrible person?
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Nov 8, 2017 22:15
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axeil posted:Jesus christ. don't knock our ritual to make the pee tape real
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Nov 8, 2017 22:15
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Talmonis posted:As some of the posts above will demonstrate, they have no intention of working with Democrats at all. Democrats are corrupt as an organization, but are the only thing standing between the vulnerable and the right. Forcing them left from within is viable (and utterly paramount), long term. But again, we need to work with the centrists too. Possibly most of all, as they have all the funding. If they get pushed out of the party, they'll end up Republican, and we can't afford that. I heavily disagree about money being important after the 2016 election showed us pretty conclusively that money doesn't buy you poo poo. The point is, we agree that the Dem party needs to change for the better, and it loving sucks to make that argument and be constantly condescended to for being a silly child leftist. Talmonis posted:Absolutely. I don't agree that Obama was nearly as bad as you're making out, but he sure as hell could have been better. Better being further left. We'll agree to disagree here, I guess, but to me, Obama's failure to deliver on his campaign promises is one of the major factors of how a Trump can come to power.
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Nov 8, 2017 22:15
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luv 2 chill w/ torturers
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Nov 8, 2017 22:15
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Talmonis posted:As some of the posts above will demonstrate, they have no intention of working with Democrats at all. Democrats are corrupt as an organization, but are the only thing standing between the vulnerable and the right. Forcing them left from within is viable (and utterly paramount), long term. But again, we need to work with the centrists too. Possibly most of all, as they have all the funding. If they get pushed out of the party, they'll end up Republican, and we can't afford that.
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Nov 8, 2017 22:22
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Kilroy posted:I'm happy to "work with" liberals where necessary to reduce suffering and help people, but I just wanted you to know that I'm two-faced as gently caress about it and mindful of your hypocrisy and the very instant and I can put all liberals in forced-labor camps I'm absolutely going to do exactly that. Honestly the work would do you a lot of good, anyway. lol, gently caress off
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Nov 8, 2017 22:23
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Kilroy posted:I'm happy to "work with" liberals where necessary to reduce suffering and help people, but I just wanted you to know that I'm two-faced as gently caress about it and mindful of your hypocrisy and the very instant and I can put all liberals in forced-labor camps I'm absolutely going to do exactly that. Honestly the work would do you a lot of good, anyway. Stalin is not your friend, friend.
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Nov 8, 2017 22:24
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Kilroy posted:I'm happy to "work with" liberals where necessary to reduce suffering and help people, but I just wanted you to know that I'm two-faced as gently caress about it and mindful of your hypocrisy and the very instant and I can put all liberals in forced-labor camps I'm absolutely going to do exactly that. Honestly the work would do you a lot of good, anyway. 
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Nov 8, 2017 22:25
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Lightning Knight posted:Stalin is not your friend, friend.
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Nov 8, 2017 22:26
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Kilroy posted:Stalin was a murdering bastard and I'm not talking about doing any murders. Stalin did a lot of murders by putting people in forced labor camps until the loving died.
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Nov 8, 2017 22:26
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Kilroy posted:Stalin was a murdering bastard and I'm not talking about doing any murders. well, aside from that one time
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Nov 8, 2017 22:28
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Chilichimp posted:Stalin did a lot of murders by putting people in forced labor camps until the loving died. proceed, senator harris
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Nov 8, 2017 22:28
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Chilichimp posted:Stalin did a lot of murders by putting people in forced labor camps until the loving died. I think the death penalty should be abolished, but punishment for poo poo like collaborating with the fascists is obviously still on the table.
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Nov 8, 2017 22:30
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"I'll do forced labor camps the right way." - Kilroy Platforming on political slavery is so loving chic, ya'll.
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Nov 8, 2017 22:32
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Liberals have been throwing leftists into forced labour camps for over a century, so a little turnabout seems fair.
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Nov 8, 2017 22:34
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Chilichimp posted:"I'll do forced labor camps the right way." - Kilroy
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Nov 8, 2017 22:35
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Chilichimp posted:"I'll do forced labor camps the right way." - Kilroy Looking from the outside, you guys seem to be doing that in the US for a while now, party be damned. I should find a graph of private prison share value over the last 30 years.
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Nov 8, 2017 22:36
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JeffersonClay posted:Seriously good on you for posting the party platforms, but I don’t see anything in ‘76 or ‘80 that’s significantly different from ‘08. You don’t see how a single, national, provider of health care coverage, paid for out of taxes is different from patching over the current patchwork coverage of health care coverage through tons of essentially unaccountable private entities? A single payer, if you will.
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Nov 8, 2017 22:37
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Oxxidation posted:well, aside from that one time
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Nov 8, 2017 22:38
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Chilichimp posted:"I'll do forced labor camps the right way." - Kilroy remind me, again, why it is that the state of california needs the free labor, senator
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Nov 8, 2017 22:39
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Sephyr posted:Looking from the outside, you guys seem to be doing that in the US for a while now, party be damned. I should find a graph of private prison share value over the last 30 years. Yeah, private prisons are bullshit. IDK if prison reform is on the dem party platform or not, but Obama did what he could to ensure federal prisons couldn't be privately operated while he was in office. That's one of the first bullshit reforms Trump did.
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Nov 8, 2017 22:39
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Ze Pollack posted:remind me, again, why it is that the state of california needs the free labor, senator Oh, sorry, I'm not actually Senator Harris. I didn't think it was necessary to say, but you seem to actively believe my distaste for talk of jailing liberals for the sin of not being communists somehow means I'm a middle aged black former prosecutor from California who's currently a Senator.  You never can tell these days.
Chilichimp fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Nov 8, 2017 |
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Nov 8, 2017 22:42
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Chilichimp posted:Obama did what he could to ensure federal prisons couldn't be privately operated while he was in office. Uh, he passed that order in August of 2016. Like, he gets bare minimum credit for waiting almost 8 years to do it, not sweeping praise. E: VVV I'm saying we need to be demanding much better, not going "look he checked the checkbox, okay?"
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Nov 8, 2017 22:44
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WampaLord posted:Uh, he passed that order in August of 2016. I mean, he DID A THING, tho. drat him with all the faint praise you want, it's at least indicative that Democrats are receptive to prison reform as a concept.
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Nov 8, 2017 22:45
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Talmonis posted:Secondly, some leftists here howl any time a Democrat doesn't campaign on Full Communism Now, while making GBS threads on the vast majority of Democrats for their lack of purity. See, this is an absurd sentiment. To use my segregation/Jim Crow laws example from earlier, you would say it's absurd to claim someone who was adamantly against those things and demanded that they end was obsessed with "purity", right? Most people who identify as leftists on these forums are not demanding immediate socialism. The stuff they are demanding* is generally a compromise and the bare minimum necessary to achieve anything remotely resembling an equitable society. Stuff like jacking up effective tax rates on the wealthy and redistributing it to other Americans through expanded social programs is a compromise position, and is viewed as absolutely necessary in order to even begin to address current injustice. Posts like yours here just reveal that liberals don't really take current injustice as seriously as they claim to, and consider things like poverty to be low enough in priority that it's okay to wait some indefinite amount of time to adequately address them. *And honestly it's misleading to even say "demanding" here, since most self-identified leftists are still willing to vote for Democrats in general elections. I can completely understand arguing that people should vote for Democrats in order to defeat Republicans, but you've crossed the line into total absurdity if you also demand people to stop expressing any sort of criticism or negative opinions. Talmonis posted:This is the right answer. Gently but firmly push them left, it's a good thing. Don't antagonize them, or they'll dig in. Yes, as we all know important societal change has always been the result of politely and gently encouraging those with power to give some of it up to those less fortunate. lol Like, even if I assume you're right (which you're not), nothing you're saying here implies that the people harshly criticizing the Democrats are actually causing any harm. Can you think of a single time during history where people being too radical in a positive direction had a negative effect? (And if you don't think the radical left is a positive direction, that's the argument you should be making instead of all these weird insinuations.) JeffersonClay posted:The best way to do this is to make arguments that moving left will make it easier to win elections. Arguments like “well the status quo has failed so we gotta get more leftist” don’t cut it. As I've explained to you before, the burden is on you to prove that moving left will make it harder to win elections. Leftists, by virtue of being leftists, believe moving to the left is a good thing that will help people. There is no need for them to prove that moving to the left will perform better than status quo ideology. If you want to reject moving to the left, the burden is on you to show that it will result in Democrats losing elections that they would otherwise win. Heck Yes! Loam! posted:
I'm actually going to partially disagree with what Majorian said. I honestly don't mind centrists and/or liberals complaining about the left, as long as they do so on actual ideological and/or policy grounds. What bothers me is the fact that liberal/centrist -> left attacks virtually never focus on these things, and usually just consist of insinuations about being bigoted or immature or whatever. Debating about goals is fine, but the problem is that the mainstream center-left rarely attacks the left on that basis (likely because they realize they don't have a leg to stand on). Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Nov 8, 2017 |
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Nov 8, 2017 22:45
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By the way, it hasn't really been discussed in this thread due to higher profile races, but there was a municipal election for the city of Minneapolis last night. Minneapolis uses ranked choice voting so not all the results are in, but the incumbent mayor has been unseated by Jacob Frey. The second choice option for that race was Raymond Dehn, the Our Revolution endorsed candidate. Ward 3 had a DSA candidate lose in the third round despite a sizeable lead in the first and second rounds. Multiple trans candidates won, including ward 8's Andrea Jenkins, a black transwoman, and ward 4's Phillippe Cunningham, a black trans man. St Paul also elected its first black mayor in Melvin Carter. E: I don't know much about the St. Paul election.
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Nov 8, 2017 22:48
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WampaLord posted:No, rear end in a top hat, we don't agree on that. At least his heart is in the right place.  thanks wampa botany posted:lmao yeah i'm sure you would no, condiv on always voting for the lesser evil (as opposed to refusing to vote for racist democrats and such)
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Nov 8, 2017 22:54
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Kilroy posted:I'm happy to "work with" liberals where necessary to reduce suffering and help people, but I just wanted you to know that I'm two-faced as gently caress about it and mindful of your hypocrisy and the very instant and I can put all liberals in forced-labor camps I'm absolutely going to do exactly that. Honestly the work would do you a lot of good, anyway. XD
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Nov 8, 2017 22:55
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Chilichimp posted:Oh, sorry, I'm not actually Senator Harris. I didn't think it was necessary to say, but you seem to actively believe my distaste for talk of jailing liberals for the sin of not being communists somehow means I'm a middle aged black former prosecutor from California who's currently a Senator. the person talking about the unbearable horror of throwing people in labor camps to die, in defense of establishment democrats, ~miiiight~ want to look at the plank in his own eye, is what I am subtly hinting at here
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Nov 8, 2017 22:55
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