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How often do ghosts tend to get made anyway? I know there's no canon answer, but if there's some kind of an 'in general' thing for what makes them. I'm just kind of imagining a Sin-Eater or Moros-mage or similar who's used to a nice neighbourhood where there was like, one ghost of the guy who accidentally electrocuted himself the day he won the lottery or something, and then going into less-nice surroundings (from the bad side of a US city to a third world country) and going "what the gently caress".
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Nov 8, 2017 04:49
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:So pluses for the VtM 1e core intro: Also Minuses: Fans of it won't shut the gently caress up about how it was better than revised.
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Nov 8, 2017 04:58
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bewilderment posted:How often do ghosts tend to get made anyway? I know there's no canon answer, but if there's some kind of an 'in general' thing for what makes them. How often do things die with things unfinished? It seems like a lot, the book says they're the most numerous, 'More ghost exist than any other supernatural creature,' but that seems like an exaggeration, or not counting ephemerals It isn't quite clear what causes ghosts. Chronicles just says 'sometimes' and more often when a death is under traumatic or sudden fashion. From there, how many manage to hold onto their anchors? More likely sink into the Underworld. I imagine Geist second edition will get into this more. quote:I'm just kind of imagining a Sin-Eater or Moros-mage or similar who's used to a nice neighbourhood where there was like, one ghost of the guy who accidentally electrocuted himself the day he won the lottery or something, and then going into less-nice surroundings (from the bad side of a US city to a third world country) and going "what the gently caress". I suppose longevity might help. If your surroundings have only been inhabited for a hundred years or so, you'll probably have less ghosts than a place that's been populous and lived in like Constantinople. You have exceptions in tremendously populous 'newish' areas. Alternatively you might have more inhuman ghosts, like a ghost forest maybe? But even then numbers can be lowered by Sin-Eaters, Mages, Werewolves, Reapers (I'm guessing) and assorted ghostbusters.
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Nov 8, 2017 06:19
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:So pluses for the VtM 1e core intro: The 2e core book is almost exactly the same text as the 1e core, but with better formatting and editing and a much more stylish trade dress, and minus the illustrated story that runs through half the book. VtM 1e looks and feels like a Palladium book in comparison to 2e.
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Nov 8, 2017 06:28
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bewilderment posted:How often do ghosts tend to get made anyway? I know there's no canon answer, but if there's some kind of an 'in general' thing for what makes them. They are super common--the rule of thumb in Geist 2e is that most people who die with Integrity <8 or 9 leaves a ghost. Now, a fair number of those go straight to the Underworld on account of not having unfinished business strong enough to create Anchors (or are only Anchored to their own corpse and just hang out in the cemetery/sleep, Fettered, in their grave), but there are a lot of ghosts out there.
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Nov 8, 2017 07:57
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bewilderment posted:How often do ghosts tend to get made anyway? I know there's no canon answer, but if there's some kind of an 'in general' thing for what makes them.
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Nov 8, 2017 11:18
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GimpInBlack posted:They are super common--the rule of thumb in Geist 2e is that most people who die with Integrity <8 or 9 leaves a ghost. Now, a fair number of those go straight to the Underworld on account of not having unfinished business strong enough to create Anchors (or are only Anchored to their own corpse and just hang out in the cemetery/sleep, Fettered, in their grave), but there are a lot of ghosts out there. If 7 is still the general average, this means that almost everyone who dies in the ChroD ends up as a ghost or in the Underworld. That is so bleak and I love it. This would also mean that there are probably far, far more ghosts in the Underworld than there are people alive on earth. I hope those Avernian Gates are well-guarded. 
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Nov 8, 2017 11:32
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Ironslave posted:If 7 is still the general average, this means that almost everyone who dies in the ChroD ends up as a ghost or in the Underworld. That is so bleak and I love it. Well... there would be uncounted billions in the Underworld, but the Underworld has a tendency to eat them. But yes, there are a lot of ghosts down there, and some of them have been there a very, very long time.
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Nov 8, 2017 13:22
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I Am Just a Box posted:The core rules for ephemera definitely still mention ghost buildings and structures. Ghosts of animals exist. They've always been a thing, and the 2e rules for them are in Geist 2e.
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Nov 8, 2017 14:00
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Dave Brookshaw posted:Ghosts of animals exist. They've always been a thing, and the 2e rules for them are in Geist 2e. But Mage 2e explicitly says only humans (and potentially other soul havers which animals are openly not) can leave ghosts behind. 
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Nov 8, 2017 14:15
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Foglet posted:But Mage 2e explicitly says only humans (and potentially other soul havers which animals are openly not) can leave ghosts behind.
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Nov 8, 2017 14:30
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I haven't found the passage that says explicitly only humans, but the Denizens of Other Realms section does note that ghosts are the remnants of humans, and it's the same in the CofD core too. That said, given that we have the ghosts of objects, I don't know why this would be assumed to be the case. I've had the ghosts of entire forests as a kind of pained gestalt appear in my game propositions, if nothing else (the remnants of trees that burn, merged with the pained agonies of every animal that died; screaming, burning trees that refuse to go out). Also, writing out "gestalt" as just made me remember that Geist is a German word. For just a moment, I wondered if it had the German sht sound instead of the common English pronunciation. I had to look it up and am glad it doesn't, because "guy-sht" would sound downright silly.
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Nov 8, 2017 14:48
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I don't remember any animal ghosts from like, anything in 1e, although I suppose they could fill the same metaphysical space as the "ghosts" of burned down buildings and such.
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Nov 8, 2017 14:51
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Foglet posted:But Mage 2e explicitly says only humans (and potentially other soul havers which animals are openly not) can leave ghosts behind. I always figured the combination of "there are no Human spirits" and "only humans leave ghosts" was driving at something.
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Nov 8, 2017 15:39
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Dave Brookshaw posted:Ghosts of animals exist. They've always been a thing, and the 2e rules for them are in Geist 2e. Eh, I guess that's a thing that can happen. There's also the whole thing about humans being the only creatures that don't have a Shadow analogue. There are no Human-spirits, but humans do leave behind a crap-ton of ghosts.
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Nov 8, 2017 15:40
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It's important to be able to play Ghost Dog.
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Nov 8, 2017 16:05
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Ironslave posted:I hope those Avernian Gates are well-guarded. I have bad news for you. The mages who are "guarding" one in my chronicle are very not good at it. It's in the middle of a 200 year old cemetery that's even older than that. Someday they may actually figure that out, but we're waiting for Geist 2e to come out and then do a session or two of ghost messing. What I haven't told them (directly) is that it's a living world and it will affect their mage game. Also, I've always just sort of ran with animals mostly not leaving ghosts. Important animals, who have been anthropomorphized enough, may leave one if there's a good enough reason. Otherwise, I've always just expected that they go off and frolic and maybe become rank 1 spirits if they don't get immediately eaten in that big farm out in the country that parents always tell their kids about.
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Nov 8, 2017 16:09
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 This was my party’s favorite spirit from the hunter game I recently finished. It’s a spirit of “the unbridled joy of a child leaping in puddles and also playing with dogs” or something like that.
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Nov 8, 2017 16:12
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Nov 8, 2017 16:13
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do NOT jack off posted:Eh, I guess that's a thing that can happen. There's also the whole thing about humans being the only creatures that don't have a Shadow analogue. The running theory on the forums is that human's spirit is part of its soul. I prefer something more mythic, like the spirit of humanity doesn't allow any lesser spirits and funnels all Essence to himself. Or humanity are a host. Or all the energy is used to fuel the human astral world. If you're going to make up fiction might as well go big. nofather fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Nov 8, 2017 |
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Nov 8, 2017 20:18
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I think the easy answer is that a spirit of "humanity" is impossible. Humanity contains too many connotations, too many ideas, too much thingness. Which is why if you want to point at a spirit of humanity, wave your arm at all the spirits of abstract ideas, such as justice, murder, logic, or so on. Sure, animals alone could maintain some basic abstract spirits - pain, anger, sadness, simple stuff - but they'd be nowhere near as strong or as sophisticated.
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Nov 8, 2017 20:26
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The ghost rules in the CofD corebook are a cut and paste from the God Machine chronicle, where we deliberately kept them to things that mortal investigators would plausibly encounter - no Kerberoi, no Cthonians, no rules about how the Underworld affects ghosts. Mage didn't have room to expand them (but will, maybe, in Fallen Worlds) due to having to cram even more kinds of entity into fewer words, but Geist does. You seldom hear about ghost animals because they only form when a human feels their loss, they still only think like animals so don't know how to use their powers to prolong their existence in Twilight, and even then they fall to the Underworld faster than humanoid ghosts do. Geist 1e did mention them a few times, IIRC, and Ghost Stories had ghost dogs in it. But your family dog or the maneating tiger that's bedevilled your village will totally leave a ghost behind.
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Nov 8, 2017 20:29
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And presumably a few ghost dogs do get the hang of it and go on to become the black dog that haunts the churchyard on the moor.
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Nov 8, 2017 20:31
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quote:Matt’s tending to his own situation right now. As a freelance developer, all but one of his projects were already contractually finished, and we have another developer taking over Tormented to finish what Matt started. From Rich Thomas. Sounds like Matt McFarland's either resigned or been taken off his last project.
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Nov 8, 2017 20:37
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Anyone else get a suspiciously phishing-ish e-mail from dhaunae.devir? It leads to a fake google login screen.
nofather fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Nov 8, 2017 |
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Nov 8, 2017 21:34
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Mors Rattus posted:And presumably a few ghost dogs do get the hang of it and go on to become the black dog that haunts the churchyard on the moor. Church Grims would be a fun thing for sin-eaters to have to deal with/have as a Geist. First thing buried in a graveyard, bound to protect the living from the dead? (Though depending on your version of the story they might be big black goats instead.)
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Nov 8, 2017 21:41
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unseenlibrarian posted:Church Grims would be a fun thing for sin-eaters to have to deal with/have as a Geist. First thing buried in a graveyard, bound to protect the living from the dead? (Though depending on your version of the story they might be big black goats instead.) I think they've mentioned thats one of the natural ways to break the Rank 2 barrier and have a Rank 3 ghost. The Black Dog myth has representation in Werewolf, with the MacCreedy family and their Hounds of Hades. nofather fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Nov 8, 2017 |
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Nov 8, 2017 21:43
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nofather posted:I think they've mentioned thats one of the natural ways to break the Rank 2 barrier and have a Rank 3 ghost. Yep, graveyard guardians are one of the few ways for a ghost to become a Geist without drinking from a River. They don't generally make Bargains, though. EDIT: Nothing says the first thing buried in a graveyard has to be a person, either. Maybe you don't want to sentence grandpa to an eternity guarding the cemetery, so you bury a black dog or a goat first. GimpInBlack fucked around with this message at 22:08 on Nov 8, 2017 |
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Nov 8, 2017 22:05
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GimpInBlack posted:Yep, graveyard guardians are one of the few ways for a ghost to become a Geist without drinking from a River. They don't generally make Bargains, though. I like the idea of the backyards of suburb family homes having Rank 3 goldfish ghosts ruling over various other animal ghosts.
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Nov 8, 2017 22:10
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nofather posted:I like the idea of the backyards of suburb family homes having Rank 3 goldfish ghosts ruling over various other animal ghosts. I AM GLUB OF THE AURIC FIN! GUARDIAN OF THIS BACKYARD! AND I WI.. wait what was I saying again? Who are you?
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Nov 8, 2017 22:17
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I kind of like that Mage contradicts the rulebook on animal ghosts existing. From what I know of Mage, that seems like some fitting hubris. Also, Black Dogs are also in CtL as Shadowbanes and you better believe I enjoyed that entry in Dancers in the Dusk.
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Nov 9, 2017 03:07
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GimpInBlack posted:Yep, graveyard guardians are one of the few ways for a ghost to become a Geist without drinking from a River. They don't generally make Bargains, though. What book is the stuff about becoming a rank 3 ghost from? Geist book I assume? Either way it does give me a neat idea. Church grim that makes a bargain specifically so someone will take care of the graveyard and help the spirits pass on. Just a man and his ghost dog, taking care of some graveyard and helping the dead move on. Maybe punch a necromancer in the face occasionally.
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Nov 9, 2017 03:42
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xanthan posted:What book is the stuff about becoming a rank 3 ghost from? Geist book I assume?
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Nov 9, 2017 03:49
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Nessus posted:Now extend this to Colma, CA. Well, that does certainly solve how I would get that kind of character involved with anything not related to his specific graveyard. Also how are there not more ghost movies about that place? Million and a half dead people, moved from their final resting places so the living could build over them? It sounds like the plot of a ghost movie.
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Nov 9, 2017 04:01
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xanthan posted:What book is the stuff about becoming a rank 3 ghost from? Geist book I assume? Yeah, that's a Geist 2e teaser. Nessus posted:Now extend this to Colma, CA. Holy poo poo I wish I had known about this place when we were deciding on the example settings.
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Nov 9, 2017 10:40
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GimpInBlack posted:Holy poo poo I wish I had known about this place when we were deciding on the example settings. e: Also, the reason is probably that Colma doesn't exactly put up advertisements saying "Hi, we're the Spookiest Possible Town." Look at how normal this city website is! https://www.colma.ca.gov/ Personally I find it inspiring.
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Nov 9, 2017 11:45
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Nessus posted:Well, I mean - is it too late? You have every reason to adjust the pitch now that you know about THE SPOOKIEST POSSIBLE AMERICAN TOWN. The book has already been written and is in development, so yeah, unless I cut somebody's work to make room for it (and write it myself), yeah, it's too late, sadly. Maybe if Geist gets a Kickstarter I'll be able to sneak it into a stretch goal.
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Nov 9, 2017 12:33
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If not, player's guide.
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Nov 9, 2017 13:12
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Colma's official city motto, according to the wikipedia page on the town, is "It's great to be alive in Colma".
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Nov 9, 2017 13:37
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Crossover between Its Always Sunny and 1001 Ways to Die, perhaps? 'It's Great to be Alive in Colma: The gang are burned alive in a sulfuric acid spill'.
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Nov 9, 2017 13:40
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