- stinch
- Nov 21, 2013
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Sean Tracy said on some steam they just tested up to 60 players and server performance was better than expected. However they apparently don't allow players to pvp while testing lol
1000 players only weeks away
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Nov 10, 2017 17:33
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- Adbot
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ADBOT LOVES YOU
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Jun 3, 2024 11:10
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- Quavers
- Feb 26, 2016
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You clearly don't understand game development
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Elite has more like a "soft cap" of 32 players IIRC, because 100+ explorers were able to manage this (albeit the instance was unstable):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuZRwDNm3-8
From a technical standpoint, how does a soft-cap work compared to a hard-cap? I assume it's a little more complicated than setting MAX_PLAYERS to a stupidly high number.
Elite's P2P is notoriously flaky, with no predictability of instance sizes and stability.
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Nov 10, 2017 17:43
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- Truga
- May 4, 2014
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Lipstick Apathy
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Re: thread title. When I first read it, I thought it said goons must have died, and figures 3.0 released or something because well, how else could it, right?
But no, it was just my brain autocorrecting it.
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Nov 10, 2017 17:52
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- Solarin
- Nov 15, 2007
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I'm not defending Derek, I'm the first one to make fun of him, but I've talked about this in the past and I think what he said was accurate at the time.
 Now I will channel Derek
This is all rambling speculation though about what went on behind the scenes. I've formed my opinion by passively watching this shitshow for a few years now and am taking into account things like CIGs own marketing, their tweets, their ATVs and interviews. Also things like the leaks and this threads analysis at every decision and action they take.
My theory is this:
Due to CIG constantly promising things and being unable to deliver I think Chris Roberts around December 2015 was certain of a early to mid two year late 2016 release for Squadron 42 which is where the real money is at. Since he has talked in interviews about expecting ridiculously impossible numbers of sales for it to the tune of a quarter billion dollars it's reasonable to make that the focus of your company if you are a big enough lunatic to think it's going to be that profitable.
Leading up to that was a nonstop barrage of videos about motion capture for Squadron 42 and the actors. Slides about the amazing script. Leaks about all the work going into it and how much work there was actually to do on Squadron 42. All Chris ever wanted to talk about was Squadron 42. Answer the call.
So in early 2016 we did get a few new patches to the PU. These patches started getting less and less substantial from 2.1. Eventually they were slight modifications anyone that has ever modded a game would instantly recognize. Adjusting values of things.
Then the maintenance mode thing comes up here in March. Not necessarily whatever the official terminology for a "maintenance mode" on a piece of software would be but that the PU was only being worked on to keep up appearances. All focus and resources were going to Squadron 42 but the PU is what cultists have paid for.
As 2016 started progressing you started having longer and longer time for even more and more insignificant patches. After about 6-7 months the maintenance mode and reduced consideration for the PU was proven to be exactly correct since it started taking multiple months to get slight tweaks to flight speed or camera movement. 2.5 in August was virtually identical to 2.0 from December of the previous year. I'm sure cultists would point at the hilarious patch notes or compile huge lists of how adjusting the ammunition in a gun or the top speed of something totally disproves my point but if you aren't a crazy idiot arguing for a belief you can see the actual changes from 2.0 -> 2.5 which were the definition of treading water or "maintenance mode."
Meanwhile you still saw Mark Hamill and Squadron 42 actors tweeting about their still ongoing motion capture up until July of that year.
Gamescom comes around and you have an obvious and proven fake scripted demo in cryeditor.exe to make even more money. Money flows in. Citcon rolls around and in addition to another obvious and proven fake scripted demo in cryeditor.exe you have Squadron 42's appearance cancelled for unexplained reasons. The Leaks had been progressively mentioning a reduced scope in Squadron 42 which was to try and get out "The Prelude." A smaller and cut up version of Squadron 42s content to try and sell it.
After that the holiday sale rolls around and CIG manages to poo poo out Star Marine.
Once 2017 hit Squadron 42 isn't being talked about much anymore. Work probably progressed on it or The Prelude until early this year and at some point the idea had to have been abandoned. I tend to think that all the leaks about how ridiculous the animation data was were correct. Especially when you consider the slides putting this at 10x the speaking roles of actual studio releases of animated films. Chris Roberts had wanted to make a movie and had generated 90% footage and 10% gameplay with most of his budget and the footage was largely worthless due to the work required to turn tens of millions of dollars of motion capture data into anything resembling a game with a narrative that he could sell for $60.
Leaks turned to Squadron 42 being combined with the persistent universe. All outward focus from CIG switches to 3.0 and delivering something that resembles the fake demos they sold last year.
I think they have shifted along this path
- Planning to develop both games simultaneously with 4 studios
(time passes)
- Already past their release date with tens of millions in Squadron 42, complete focus on finish it (Maintenance Mode PU)
(time passes)
- Unable to deal with the hilarious clusterfuck Chris Roberts filmed, scope is reduced and a smaller step will be taken toward Squadron 42, further forgetting the PU (Prelude, A year without patches)
(time passes)
- Development of anything to do with petabytes of mocap footage becomes so expensive that the forgotten PU is now front and center to make money (Fake Demos late 2016)
(a lot of time passes)
- Once the main 2017 sales start getting closer CIG starts producing more fake demos but is now apparently struggling to develop something that actually resembles them. (3.0) Work has obviously just started on it sometime recently but they are running with it 100% and are no longer talking about Squadron 42. Due to almost bankrupting the company on Squadron 42 for years their last resort is a broken tech demo they had largely been ignoring. It's all they have and that leads us to now where they are frantically trying to cram more features into an ancient engine they should have never used in the first place.
It's a shame that we have to speculate so much about what is actually happening at THE WORLD'S MOST OPEN GAME DEVELOPMENT STUDIO. I'm pretty confident about that chain of events and if I was as crazy as Derek i would probably look up all the supporting tweets and information for each step but I don't care enough to spend an eternity digging through endless amounts of bullshit to highlight my points.
I follow with most of this but want to add that I think it was AI that screwed them with delivering a vertical slice of sq42.
They probably pulled the exact same loving maneuver that happened with Illfonic and Star Marine: develop a whole bunch of critical systems in isolation (probably with a contracted 3rd party) and then expect to mash them into a bunch of ultra polished art assets with no prior planning around integration.
all speculation based on the safe bet that Chris Roberts is unable to learn from failure
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Nov 10, 2017 17:53
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- SCtrumpHaters
- Oct 28, 2017
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by Nyc_Tattoo
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Still no Ben. I'd give it another week or two of shows, but the Agent might be completely right.
If he doesn't show up for the holiday livestream it'll be 100% confirmation. But they might trot him out there and make him leave January, giving months on months of deniability. Hes enough of a mark to go for it.
And frankly he owes CIG. They hired him and let him do basically nothing for years.
Whatever happened to that 10k project?
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Nov 10, 2017 17:57
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- Beexoffel
- Oct 4, 2015
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Herald of the Stimpire
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quote:quote:
Is Star Citizen an MMO?
No! Star Citizen will take the best of all possible worlds, ranging from a permanent, persistent world similar to those found in MMOs to an offline, single player campaign like those found in the Wing Commander series. The game will include the option for private servers, like Freelancer, and will offer plenty of opportunities for players who are interested in modding the content. Unlike many games, none of these aspects is an afterthought: they all combine to form the core of the Star Citizen experience.
they are gonna point to this and justify whatever state the MVP is in when they finally run out of money and give up.
It is such weasely horse poo poo it is amazing. I think the last bit is my favorite part
Unlike many games, none of these aspects is an afterthought: they all combine to form the core of the Star Citizen experience.
I never understood that text.
If I interpret it, it becomes:
Is Star Citizen an MMO?
No! But actually Yes! Star Citizen will take the best of MMO's, and single player games and lobby games; so really also still No! Including the best in permanent, persistent player and ship stats and world state changes of an MMO but not their worst like players crowding a room and slowing the framerate; to an offline, single player campaign like those found in the Wing Commander series. And this range includes lobby-started team competition!
The game will include private servers, unlocked by $$$, and will offer a set of moddable content.
Unlike many games, we have already designed and tested the necessary software and network tech, and this whole wide vista of aspects is actually a coherent core.
The hubris. The contradictions. That sling at actually existing, working MMO's.
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Nov 10, 2017 18:01
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- Beet Wagon
- Oct 19, 2015
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I never understood that text.
If I interpret it, it becomes:
Is Star Citizen an MMO?
No! But actually Yes! Star Citizen will take the best of MMO's, and single player games and lobby games; so really also still No! Including the best in permanent, persistent player and ship stats and world state changes of an MMO but not their worst like players crowding a room and slowing the framerate; to an offline, single player campaign like those found in the Wing Commander series. And this range includes lobby-started team competition!
The game will include private servers, unlocked by $$$, and will offer a set of moddable content.
Unlike many games, we have already designed and tested the necessary software and network tech, and this whole wide vista of aspects is actually a coherent core.
The hubris. The contradictions. That sling at actually existing, working MMO's.
"No but actually Yes" is like the cornerstone of CIG's entire corporate ideology, so it makes sense.
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Nov 10, 2017 18:03
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- Dooguk
- Oct 11, 2016
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Pillbug
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And remember the comedy, they had to trot him out twice because the first time had audio issues.
He has more than audio issues.
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Nov 10, 2017 18:04
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- Nicholas
- Mar 7, 2001
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Were those not fine days, when we drank of clear honey, and spoke in calm tones of our love for the stuff?
|
I'm not defending Derek, I'm the first one to make fun of him, but I've talked about this in the past and I think what he said was accurate at the time.
Now I will channel Derek
This is all rambling speculation though about what went on behind the scenes. I've formed my opinion by passively watching this shitshow for a few years now and am taking into account things like CIGs own marketing, their tweets, their ATVs and interviews. Also things like the leaks and this threads analysis at every decision and action they take.
My theory is this:
Due to CIG constantly promising things and being unable to deliver I think Chris Roberts around December 2015 was certain of a early to mid two year late 2016 release for Squadron 42 which is where the real money is at. Since he has talked in interviews about expecting ridiculously impossible numbers of sales for it to the tune of a quarter billion dollars it's reasonable to make that the focus of your company if you are a big enough lunatic to think it's going to be that profitable.
Leading up to that was a nonstop barrage of videos about motion capture for Squadron 42 and the actors. Slides about the amazing script. Leaks about all the work going into it and how much work there was actually to do on Squadron 42. All Chris ever wanted to talk about was Squadron 42. Answer the call.
So in early 2016 we did get a few new patches to the PU. These patches started getting less and less substantial from 2.1. Eventually they were slight modifications anyone that has ever modded a game would instantly recognize. Adjusting values of things.
Then the maintenance mode thing comes up here in March. Not necessarily whatever the official terminology for a "maintenance mode" on a piece of software would be but that the PU was only being worked on to keep up appearances. All focus and resources were going to Squadron 42 but the PU is what cultists have paid for.
As 2016 started progressing you started having longer and longer time for even more and more insignificant patches. After about 6-7 months the maintenance mode and reduced consideration for the PU was proven to be exactly correct since it started taking multiple months to get slight tweaks to flight speed or camera movement. 2.5 in August was virtually identical to 2.0 from December of the previous year. I'm sure cultists would point at the hilarious patch notes or compile huge lists of how adjusting the ammunition in a gun or the top speed of something totally disproves my point but if you aren't a crazy idiot arguing for a belief you can see the actual changes from 2.0 -> 2.5 which were the definition of treading water or "maintenance mode."
Meanwhile you still saw Mark Hamill and Squadron 42 actors tweeting about their still ongoing motion capture up until July of that year.
Gamescom comes around and you have an obvious and proven fake scripted demo in cryeditor.exe to make even more money. Money flows in. Citcon rolls around and in addition to another obvious and proven fake scripted demo in cryeditor.exe you have Squadron 42's appearance cancelled for unexplained reasons. The Leaks had been progressively mentioning a reduced scope in Squadron 42 which was to try and get out "The Prelude." A smaller and cut up version of Squadron 42s content to try and sell it.
After that the holiday sale rolls around and CIG manages to poo poo out Star Marine.
Once 2017 hit Squadron 42 isn't being talked about much anymore. Work probably progressed on it or The Prelude until early this year and at some point the idea had to have been abandoned. I tend to think that all the leaks about how ridiculous the animation data was were correct. Especially when you consider the slides putting this at 10x the speaking roles of actual studio releases of animated films. Chris Roberts had wanted to make a movie and had generated 90% footage and 10% gameplay with most of his budget and the footage was largely worthless due to the work required to turn tens of millions of dollars of motion capture data into anything resembling a game with a narrative that he could sell for $60.
Leaks turned to Squadron 42 being combined with the persistent universe. All outward focus from CIG switches to 3.0 and delivering something that resembles the fake demos they sold last year.
I think they have shifted along this path
- Planning to develop both games simultaneously with 4 studios
(time passes)
- Already past their release date with tens of millions in Squadron 42, complete focus on finish it (Maintenance Mode PU)
(time passes)
- Unable to deal with the hilarious clusterfuck Chris Roberts filmed, scope is reduced and a smaller step will be taken toward Squadron 42, further forgetting the PU (Prelude, A year without patches)
(time passes)
- Development of anything to do with petabytes of mocap footage becomes so expensive that the forgotten PU is now front and center to make money (Fake Demos late 2016)
(a lot of time passes)
- Once the main 2017 sales start getting closer CIG starts producing more fake demos but is now apparently struggling to develop something that actually resembles them. (3.0) Work has obviously just started on it sometime recently but they are running with it 100% and are no longer talking about Squadron 42. Due to almost bankrupting the company on Squadron 42 for years their last resort is a broken tech demo they had largely been ignoring. It's all they have and that leads us to now where they are frantically trying to cram more features into an ancient engine they should have never used in the first place.
It's a shame that we have to speculate so much about what is actually happening at THE WORLD'S MOST OPEN GAME DEVELOPMENT STUDIO. I'm pretty confident about that chain of events and if I was as crazy as Derek i would probably look up all the supporting tweets and information for each step but I don't care enough to spend an eternity digging through endless amounts of bullshit to highlight my points.
This makes a lot of sense and I'd just add that the reason for shifting focus from SQ42 to the PU is that no one has spent $30,000, 5,000, or even $100 on Squadron 42. The most anyone has spent on SQ42 is $45.
Star Citizens "persistant universe" is where people have pledged all their money, so as much as Crobberts would rather play movie director, the persistant universe in its current state represents a huge liability in terms of refunds. With each passing day there are less people wanting in, and more people wanting out. CIG absolutely needs to release an MVP, or at least attempt to show progress, to justify denying refunds.
In their customer service emails to backers requesting a refund, they've even cited the closed-invite-NDA-only 3.0 alpha as progress worthy of fullfilling their obligations to deliver a product. And that will hold up until either media outlets report on this again or real legal action is taken against CIG, and the TOS is tested in court.
Both scenarios still buy CIG a lot of time. I don't think we'll see negative media about refunds any time soon, given the last 30k refund story which got picked up and turned out to be false.
If you follow r/starcitizen_refunds, you'll see that some people are attempting to take CIG to small claims court, but this is a slow process being delayed even further by CIGs corporate shell game.
Nicholas fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Nov 10, 2017
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Nov 10, 2017 18:10
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- Bofast
- Feb 21, 2011
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-
Grimey Drawer
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I'm not defending Derek, I'm the first one to make fun of him, but I've talked about this in the past and I think what he said was accurate at the time.
Now I will channel Derek
This is all rambling speculation though about what went on behind the scenes. I've formed my opinion by passively watching this shitshow for a few years now and am taking into account things like CIGs own marketing, their tweets, their ATVs and interviews. Also things like the leaks and this threads analysis at every decision and action they take.
My theory is this:
Due to CIG constantly promising things and being unable to deliver I think Chris Roberts around December 2015 was certain of a early to mid two year late 2016 release for Squadron 42 which is where the real money is at. Since he has talked in interviews about expecting ridiculously impossible numbers of sales for it to the tune of a quarter billion dollars it's reasonable to make that the focus of your company if you are a big enough lunatic to think it's going to be that profitable.
Leading up to that was a nonstop barrage of videos about motion capture for Squadron 42 and the actors. Slides about the amazing script. Leaks about all the work going into it and how much work there was actually to do on Squadron 42. All Chris ever wanted to talk about was Squadron 42. Answer the call.
So in early 2016 we did get a few new patches to the PU. These patches started getting less and less substantial from 2.1. Eventually they were slight modifications anyone that has ever modded a game would instantly recognize. Adjusting values of things.
Then the maintenance mode thing comes up here in March. Not necessarily whatever the official terminology for a "maintenance mode" on a piece of software would be but that the PU was only being worked on to keep up appearances. All focus and resources were going to Squadron 42 but the PU is what cultists have paid for.
As 2016 started progressing you started having longer and longer time for even more and more insignificant patches. After about 6-7 months the maintenance mode and reduced consideration for the PU was proven to be exactly correct since it started taking multiple months to get slight tweaks to flight speed or camera movement. 2.5 in August was virtually identical to 2.0 from December of the previous year. I'm sure cultists would point at the hilarious patch notes or compile huge lists of how adjusting the ammunition in a gun or the top speed of something totally disproves my point but if you aren't a crazy idiot arguing for a belief you can see the actual changes from 2.0 -> 2.5 which were the definition of treading water or "maintenance mode."
Meanwhile you still saw Mark Hamill and Squadron 42 actors tweeting about their still ongoing motion capture up until July of that year.
Gamescom comes around and you have an obvious and proven fake scripted demo in cryeditor.exe to make even more money. Money flows in. Citcon rolls around and in addition to another obvious and proven fake scripted demo in cryeditor.exe you have Squadron 42's appearance cancelled for unexplained reasons. The Leaks had been progressively mentioning a reduced scope in Squadron 42 which was to try and get out "The Prelude." A smaller and cut up version of Squadron 42s content to try and sell it.
After that the holiday sale rolls around and CIG manages to poo poo out Star Marine.
Once 2017 hit Squadron 42 isn't being talked about much anymore. Work probably progressed on it or The Prelude until early this year and at some point the idea had to have been abandoned. I tend to think that all the leaks about how ridiculous the animation data was were correct. Especially when you consider the slides putting this at 10x the speaking roles of actual studio releases of animated films. Chris Roberts had wanted to make a movie and had generated 90% footage and 10% gameplay with most of his budget and the footage was largely worthless due to the work required to turn tens of millions of dollars of motion capture data into anything resembling a game with a narrative that he could sell for $60.
Leaks turned to Squadron 42 being combined with the persistent universe. All outward focus from CIG switches to 3.0 and delivering something that resembles the fake demos they sold last year.
I think they have shifted along this path
- Planning to develop both games simultaneously with 4 studios
(time passes)
- Already past their release date with tens of millions in Squadron 42, complete focus on finish it (Maintenance Mode PU)
(time passes)
- Unable to deal with the hilarious clusterfuck Chris Roberts filmed, scope is reduced and a smaller step will be taken toward Squadron 42, further forgetting the PU (Prelude, A year without patches)
(time passes)
- Development of anything to do with petabytes of mocap footage becomes so expensive that the forgotten PU is now front and center to make money (Fake Demos late 2016)
(a lot of time passes)
- Once the main 2017 sales start getting closer CIG starts producing more fake demos but is now apparently struggling to develop something that actually resembles them. (3.0) Work has obviously just started on it sometime recently but they are running with it 100% and are no longer talking about Squadron 42. Due to almost bankrupting the company on Squadron 42 for years their last resort is a broken tech demo they had largely been ignoring. It's all they have and that leads us to now where they are frantically trying to cram more features into an ancient engine they should have never used in the first place.
It's a shame that we have to speculate so much about what is actually happening at THE WORLD'S MOST OPEN GAME DEVELOPMENT STUDIO. I'm pretty confident about that chain of events and if I was as crazy as Derek i would probably look up all the supporting tweets and information for each step but I don't care enough to spend an eternity digging through endless amounts of bullshit to highlight my points.
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Nov 10, 2017 18:37
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- Sunswipe
- Feb 5, 2016
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by Fluffdaddy
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Good to know the future is basically white, with an Asian guy to handle difficult maths problems and a black guy to mop the floor. I wonder if they're recording dialogue for the one black character, or if they're just Archering Jar Jar Binks dialogue.
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Nov 10, 2017 18:39
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- monkeytek
- Jun 8, 2010
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It wasn't an ELE that wiped out the backer funds. It was Tristan Timothy Taylor.
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"No but actually Yes" is like the cornerstone of CIG's entire corporate ideology, so it makes sense.
It should be their mission statement No, But Actually Yes!
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Nov 10, 2017 18:42
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- Mangoose
- Dec 11, 2007
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Come out with your pants down!
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So these ship prices.
I can see two things happening. Either the ships will be easy to get in-game and thus not warrant a price tag like $800. Lots of backers will be pissed off because some guy got the ship THEY bought for a shitload of money during Citizencon '17 after a few months of semi-casual play. Others will still be happy, because it was never about the ships. It was about backing the dream.
The other case would be that it'll take a stupid amount of time to get a reasonable ship in-game without paying real money for it. That would make it really hard for them to attract new players unless they have a loving amazing gameplay loop and tons of stuff to do for the players flying around in the 'verse in the equivalent of a Datsun Cherry.
As far as I understand it, there won't be a real money cash shop after release, or whatever they consider "release". Of course, this means that, since Crobbers has gone on record saying that the game isn't going to have a conventional release, they'll be selling ships until the end of time. But if they actually stop selling ships, how the gently caress are they going to balance time vs money spent, and how are they going to defend it to the whales who are in for 10k+?
This is all assuming that they somehow manage to create a playable product that would appeal to anyone enough to make them purchase and play it.
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Nov 10, 2017 18:50
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- Hav
- Dec 11, 2009
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Fun Shoe
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That being said I'm glad I'm out of IT.
I'm burning out, but it's more because there's a new crop of stupid in town that hasn't really figured that the Tech hasn't really changed in 20 years, just the tools. Being on the opposite end of the 'lets go public cloud' pendulum is also wearing me down.
Like execs will come in and propose something big that will make their name, get 65% of the way through and eject for the next Director level position.
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Nov 10, 2017 18:57
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- Colostomy Bag
- Jan 11, 2016
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 C-Bangin' it
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So these ship prices.
I can see two things happening. Either the ships will be easy to get in-game and thus not warrant a price tag like $800. Lots of backers will be pissed off because some guy got the ship THEY bought for a shitload of money during Citizencon '17 after a few months of semi-casual play. Others will still be happy, because it was never about the ships. It was about backing the dream.
The other case would be that it'll take a stupid amount of time to get a reasonable ship in-game without paying real money for it. That would make it really hard for them to attract new players unless they have a loving amazing gameplay loop and tons of stuff to do for the players flying around in the 'verse in the equivalent of a Datsun Cherry.
As far as I understand it, there won't be a real money cash shop after release, or whatever they consider "release". Of course, this means that, since Crobbers has gone on record saying that the game isn't going to have a conventional release, they'll be selling ships until the end of time. But if they actually stop selling ships, how the gently caress are they going to balance time vs money spent, and how are they going to defend it to the whales who are in for 10k+?
This is all assuming that they somehow manage to create a playable product that would appeal to anyone enough to make them purchase and play it.
And this is the amazing thing. From a technological perspective this dumpster fire cannot be made base on Robert's visions. The in-game economic model...well who knows. We have Roberts on record saying that a Connie will require around 40 hours of gameplay to acquire.
In short, what an absolute farce.
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Nov 10, 2017 18:57
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- Hav
- Dec 11, 2009
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Fun Shoe
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all speculation based on the safe bet that Chris Roberts is unable to learn from failure
He is failed by people, he cannot fail.
I'm channeling SCTrumpHater there.
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Nov 10, 2017 18:59
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- SCtrumpHaters
- Oct 28, 2017
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by Nyc_Tattoo
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He is failed by people, he cannot fail.
I'm channeling SCTrumpHater there.
He paid money for people to do a job. They took the money and continue to take the money to perform that job. I'm not saying Chris is blameless, but their continued failure is more on the devs not doing what they are paid to do in a competent and ethical manner.
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Nov 10, 2017 19:02
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- SCtrumpHaters
- Oct 28, 2017
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by Nyc_Tattoo
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Especially for all the newbie hires. At least Chris thinks hes making a game. But these idiots straight out of school are basically stealing their paycheck from Chris, and on another level gullible backers. They know they don't know jack poo poo about poo poo but they still show up.
The ones who left are the honorable and honest ones.
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Nov 10, 2017 19:04
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- SCtrumpHaters
- Oct 28, 2017
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by Nyc_Tattoo
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Don't interrupt me miri when I'm shutting down the nonsense.
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Nov 10, 2017 19:07
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- big nipples big life
- May 12, 2014
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not a cult
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Nov 10, 2017 19:10
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- SCtrumpHaters
- Oct 28, 2017
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by Nyc_Tattoo
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It doesn't matter how good or bad Chris is if you cannot do what the boss asks then loving get out and stop taking the money so they can try to find someone who can. Either they do and they are a success (and you just weren't good at your job) or they don't and you are vindicated. Get a real job.
That's without even going into your paycheck being derived from a scam.
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Nov 10, 2017 19:12
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- Hav
- Dec 11, 2009
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Fun Shoe
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He paid money for people to do a job. They took the money and continue to take the money to perform that job. I'm not saying Chris is blameless, but their continued failure is more on the devs not doing what they are paid to do in a competent and ethical manner.
I love you.
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Nov 10, 2017 19:14
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- Adbot
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ADBOT LOVES YOU
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Jun 3, 2024 11:10
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Nov 10, 2017 17:33
