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Typo posted:the issue wasn't collateral damage though, the issue was that red army officers were unwilling to discipline their soldiers to not rape I imagine Stalin going Terminator on his own officers in the 1930s undermined their ability to exert authority over their soldiers when the war came.
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Nov 11, 2017 00:16
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:That's true and that would have prevented a lot of it. I know from books the U.S. military gives to its officers on PTSD whether soldiers will rape and shoot civilians comes down to discipline of the officers and also catching the warning signs, like soldiers randomly shooting farm animals. the problem was that rape wasn't punished at all, and officers themselves were partaking in it
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Nov 11, 2017 00:16
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Typo posted:if this is germany 1945 i bet dreddout would be one of those german communist cucks who welcome the red army into his house and then they rape his wife and daughter I quite likely would have been killed in a camp before the red army showed up, actually.
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Nov 11, 2017 00:17
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Typo posted:the problem was that rape wasn't punished at all, and officers themselves were partaking in it
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Nov 11, 2017 00:17
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Cerebral Bore posted:Answer the question, pal. oh look at this loving dude who can't bear to talk about how his glorious red army of socialism liberation is full of rapists
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Nov 11, 2017 00:19
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Dreddout posted:I quite likely would have been killed in a camp before the red army showed up, actually. the red army even raped liberated soviet civilians who were forcefully brought to germany as forced labor
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Nov 11, 2017 00:20
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Typo posted:the problem was that rape wasn't punished at all, and officers themselves were partaking in it Which is different from the other allies, how? Like JFC Google "WW2 Allied War Rape" and you'll find the only difference is scale. That scale was primarily made byliteral numbers of troops. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_occupation_of_Germany Here you go I did your work for you.
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Nov 11, 2017 00:22
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Typo posted:the red army even raped liberated soviet civilians who were forcefully brought to germany as forced labor I'm not arguing that the red army raped, I'm arguing that rape was inevitable.
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Nov 11, 2017 00:23
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Dreddout posted:Which is different from the other allies, how? there we go scale matters a lot
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Nov 11, 2017 00:24
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Dreddout posted:I'm not arguing that the red army raped, I'm arguing that rape was inevitable. but literal millions within the span of a few month? jesus christ dude
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Nov 11, 2017 00:24
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Typo posted:there we go You yourself said Typo posted:the problem was that rape wasn't punished at all, and officers themselves were partaking in it Which guess what, applies to any of the other beligernts in ww2 or any total war for that matter Typo posted:but literal millions within the span of a few month? Its almost like warfare is an evil, dehumanizing act drat makes you think
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Nov 11, 2017 00:25
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Dreddout posted:Now you're being disengenous. so to be clear you are basically saying the red army wasn't any worse than the US army in occupation of germany idk about that dude, even the germans knew to surrender to the americans
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Nov 11, 2017 00:26
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Dreddout posted:
imagine if user dreddout were saying this about the rape of nanking and how the ija wasn't acting any differently than any other combatant
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Nov 11, 2017 00:27
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Typo posted:oh look at this loving dude who can't bear to talk about how his glorious red army of socialism liberation is full of rapists Nah, I'm just wondering whose war crimes you're trying to minimize here.
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Nov 11, 2017 00:28
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Typo posted:idk about that dude, even the germans knew to surrender to the americans German soldiers and officials =! German civilians This is basic poo poo dude
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Nov 11, 2017 00:28
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to be sure, there is 0% chance this argument would exist if user itt didn't feel the need to defend communism
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Nov 11, 2017 00:28
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Dreddout posted:German soldiers and officials =! German civilians it wasn't just german soldiers, civilians were literally gunned down trying to flee the mass rape along with the soldiers
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Nov 11, 2017 00:28
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Cerebral Bore posted:Nah, I'm just wondering whose war crimes you're trying to minimize here. ok, cuz I know exactly which ones you are trying to minimize
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Nov 11, 2017 00:29
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to be sure, Dreddout probably has never read a book about germany 1945 beyond a wikipedia level
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Nov 11, 2017 00:30
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Typo posted:ok, cuz I know exactly which ones you are trying to you're literally the one here who's refusing to own up to what you're talking about buddy
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Nov 11, 2017 00:30
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peace out for now guys: now I know that just like how there are republicans trying to defend roy moore cuz something something bill clinton, plenty of commies are willing to defend a million roy moores because they wore the hammer and sickles
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Nov 11, 2017 00:31
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doesn't make you look very good when you're running away rather than explaining what you really think
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Nov 11, 2017 00:34
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Typo posted:to be sure, Dreddout probably has never read a book about germany 1945 beyond a wikipedia level As opposed to you, who hasn't even read the wiki articles.
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Nov 11, 2017 00:36
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Osmar White posted:After the fighting moved on to German soil, there was a good deal of rape by combat troops and those immediately following them. The incidence varied between unit and unit according to the attitude of the commanding officer. In some cases offenders were identified, tried by court martial, and punished. The army legal branch was reticent, but admitted that for brutal or perverted sexual offences against German women, some soldiers had been shot – particularly if they happened to be Negroes. Yet I know for a fact that many women were raped by white Americans. No action was taken against the culprits. In one sector a report went round that a certain very distinguished army commander made the wisecrack, 'Copulation without conversation does not constitute fraternisation. drat, what a woke occupation force, only prosecuting the blacks (with summary execution)
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Nov 11, 2017 00:39
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I mean, if we're talking scale the germans are estimated to have raped up to ten million women in the USSR alone, in addition to the whole genocide part, but you don't hear much about that for some reason.
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Nov 11, 2017 00:46
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Jonathan Steele posted:According to other documents captured by the Nazis and which later fell into American hands, on January 29 1945 Marshal Zhukov sent out an order to all battalions of the 1st Byelorussian Army forbidding any actions of revenge, from rough measures against the German population to looting and the burning of houses. Marshals Rokossowski and Konev issued similar orders. Severe punishments, including the death penalty, were carried out on troops who disobeyed. By the time the Russians approached Berlin in April, discipline was considerably improved. J.V. Stalin, Order of the Day, January 19,1945 posted:Officers and men of the Red Army! We are entering the country of the enemy... the remaining population in the liberated areas, regardless of whether they're German, Czech, or Polish, should not be subjected to violence. The perpetrators will be punished according to the laws of war. In the liberated territories, sexual relations with females are not allowed. Perpetrators of violence and rape will be shot.
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Nov 11, 2017 00:48
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typo regurgitating nazi propaganda? well i neverquote:While she admits she was at the heart of the Nazi propaganda machine, with her tasks including massaging downwards statistics about fallen soldiers, as well as exaggerating the number of rapes of German women by the Red Army, she describes it, somewhat bizarrely, as “just another job.”
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Nov 11, 2017 00:51
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lol
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Nov 11, 2017 00:54
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For the record, I don't doubt that the red army did henious poo poo in occupied territories, but moralizing about WW2 is a waste of time. The Allied forces get the absolution of being the lesser evil in comparison to the Axis.
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Nov 11, 2017 00:57
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yeah no poo poo the red army did bad things but there's a reason they get weaponized in ideological arguments and other atrocities don't, which is incidentally page 1 of goebbels' playbook
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Nov 11, 2017 01:01
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The amount of denial irt soviet/maoist atrocities among tankies is loving unreal "ya but those are nazi arguments, are you a nazi?" doesn't sound disingenuous to me at all
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Nov 11, 2017 01:10
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Yossarian-22 posted:The amount of denial irt soviet/maoist atrocities among tankies is loving unreal if your response to documentary proof anticommunist propaganda comes from nazis is "seems disingenuous to me!" maybe you should stop talking for a while
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Nov 11, 2017 01:14
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R. Guyovich posted:if your response to documentary proof anticommunist propaganda comes from nazis is "seems disingenuous to me!" maybe you should stop talking for a while Obviously nazis are going to weaponize all the poo poo on communism's dirty laundry list, because it happens to be loving there and they claim to be at the forefront of the anti-communist movement. But our response to dirty laundry on our side shouldn't be constant refrains of "yes, but actually..." all the loving time
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Nov 11, 2017 01:19
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The nazi propaganda isn't "holodomor and berlin 1945 were bad" but rather "holodomor/berlin were as bad/worse than auschwitz" The real crime against history is trying to equate Mao and Stalin with Hitler. Saying that they had unprecedentedly authoritarian regimes that nevertheless committed mass atrocities should be uncontroversial
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Nov 11, 2017 01:24
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i mean using the term "holodomor," a word intentionally crafted decades after the fact to draw comparison to the holocaust, is itself granting a propaganda victory
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Nov 11, 2017 01:27
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Dreddout posted:I'm not arguing that the red army raped, I'm arguing that rape was inevitable. Rape is probably inevitable in war, but that doesn't mean that the sheer absurd scale of rape on the eastern front was.
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Nov 11, 2017 01:35
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This thread was good once
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Nov 11, 2017 01:42
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paul_soccer10 posted:This thread was good once yeah....before you posted in it
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Nov 11, 2017 01:43
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I personally think Stalin personally spread fungus all over the crops, water that precious fungus, and made sure crop yields were half what they were in previous years. Snidely Whiplash who?
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Nov 11, 2017 01:48
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hmmm the indiscretions of certain people calling themselves communists are sufficient to discredit the ideology entirely, but maybe the indiscretions of certain people calling themselves fascists shouldn't actually besmirch fascism - the filthy pig brain of people communists think they can convince using words and letters ghaah
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Nov 11, 2017 01:50
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