(Thread IKs:
fart simpson)
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rudatron posted:This issue doesn't affect me, so it's not a problem. Are you even listening to yourself? I've acknowledged that Chinese people can in fact be racist, but I did make a joke that Chinese Xenophobia is somewhat justifiable considering their history of foreign humiliation and colonization. You took that to mean that somehow my white guilt makes it impossible for me to acknowledge that individual Chinese people can be racist, or that China's strict limitations on foreign naturalization aren't bad, because you love to rant about left identitarianism and that white leftists are all reverse racists. I literally said that Chinese people being racist doesn't matter to me, because I'm American and not Chinese. My opinion about Chinese people being racist has even less efficacy than my opinions of Americans being racist on this dead gay comedy forum, but it's natural that I should care about American racism a helluva lot more because it actually affects my own lived experience. I shouldn't have to kowtow and demonstrate my correct thought on the universal wrongness of racism every time you think that a white guy being discriminated against in a foreign country isn't fair.
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Nov 11, 2017 08:43
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Autism Sneaks posted:I'm pretty sure Jose is drunk, what's your excuse for posting like a loving idiot lol shouldn't you be in the other thread defending red army rapists?
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Nov 11, 2017 08:43
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Typo posted:shouldn't you be in the other thread defending red army rapists? Why aren't you in that thread regurgitating Nazi historiography?
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Nov 11, 2017 08:46
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Why aren't you in that thread regurgitating Nazi historiography? pointing out mass rape by the red army in 1945 germany is definitely Nazi historiography
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Nov 11, 2017 08:49
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Typo posted:pointing out mass rape by the red army in 1945 germany is definitely Nazi historiography No, but exaggerating it is. Why don't you go back in that thread and learn something, instead of drawing in extra-thread drama to try and own somebody that wasn't even posting there?
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Nov 11, 2017 08:51
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oh yeah and Katyn massacre was committed by the gestapo too
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Nov 11, 2017 08:51
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:No, but exaggerating it is. Why don't you go back in that thread and learn something, instead of drawing in extra-thread drama to try and own somebody that wasn't even posting there? yeah here people are just defending ethnic cleansing thats loads better
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Nov 11, 2017 08:52
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Why aren't you in that thread regurgitating Nazi historiography? Because Home Ex took different bait and is now engaging them in this thread specifically
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Nov 11, 2017 08:52
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Jose posted:yeah here people are just defending ethnic cleansing thats loads better You're literally taking white replacement paranoia and superimposing it onto Xinjiang.
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Nov 11, 2017 08:54
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:No, but exaggerating it is. Why don't you go back in that thread and learn something, instead of drawing in extra-thread drama to try and own somebody that wasn't even posting there? the red army raped so much it's pretty hard to exaggerate it
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Nov 11, 2017 08:54
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:You're literally taking white replacement paranoia and superimposing it onto Xinjiang. idk it seems like i'm just talking about whats going on in xinjiang
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Nov 11, 2017 08:55
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Typo posted:the red army raped so much it's pretty hard to exaggerate it Take it out of this thread, my dude.
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Nov 11, 2017 08:56
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:You're literally taking white replacement paranoia and superimposing it onto Xinjiang. i basically agree with the idea that the far left is so enclosed in their america/west-centric political spectrum they are pretty much incapable of bringing themselves to understand bad poo poo in other countries because it doesn't fit neatly onto their spectrum which is ironic since socialism is suppose to be an international ideology
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Nov 11, 2017 08:57
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Dude, get real - it wasn't 'a joke', that claim is just you trying to absolve responsibility. The 'joke' was you legitimizing prejudice on the grounds of historical grievances - which, again you would never accept as valid in any other context. And for someone who claims that 'it doesn't matter to them', you sure seem to be personally invested in excusing this poo poo. No one's asking you to kowtow: all I'm just asking you to be is 'consistent'.
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Nov 11, 2017 08:58
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nm
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Nov 11, 2017 08:58
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Autism Sneaks posted:Because Home Ex took different bait and is now engaging them in this thread specifically yeah i'm all done now. gently caress trying to talk to these people
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Nov 11, 2017 09:01
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defending genocide/ethnic cleansing is always bad
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Nov 11, 2017 09:02
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rudatron posted:Dude, get real - it wasn't 'a joke', that claim is just you trying to absolve responsibility. The 'joke' was you legitimizing prejudice on the grounds of historical grievances - which, again you would never accept as valid in any other context. The parallel you literally tried to draw was Americans discriminating against Hispanics, as if Americans have some kind of comparable historical grievance with Mexico or Puerto Rico that supports their xenophobia compared to China not wanting to give some British guy citizenship.
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Nov 11, 2017 09:02
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*xinjiang goes from like 75% uighur to 45% uighur in a few decades because they got conquered by a foreign government in beijing like 150 years ago and have no self-government/sovereignty/ability to control their borders and the national government sends in settlers to make it majority-han starting in the 80s* american leftists: this is exact same as eurabia conspiracies Typo has issued a correction as of 09:41 on Nov 11, 2017 |
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Nov 11, 2017 09:02
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A lot of non-LF posts in this thread.
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Nov 11, 2017 09:03
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Typo posted:i basically agree with the idea that the far left is so enclosed in their america/west-centric political spectrum they are pretty much incapable of bringing themselves to understand bad poo poo in other countries because it doesn't fit neatly onto their spectrum huh that's funny, I didn't realize that leftists in "America/the West" compromised the entire far left globally, no wonder they're all a bunch of ivory tower dummies
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Nov 11, 2017 09:03
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:A lot of non-LF posts in this thread. lf would have been big on defending ethnic cleansing in china
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Nov 11, 2017 09:04
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i have to admit this thread is pretty great, between alpha centauri talk and the lfers defending racism / ethnic cleansing /cultural genocide I would rate this a 5
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Nov 11, 2017 09:07
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:The parallel you literally tried to draw was Americans discriminating against Hispanics, as if Americans have some kind of comparable historical grievance with Mexico or Puerto Rico that supports their xenophobia compared to China not wanting to give some British guy citizenship.
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Nov 11, 2017 09:08
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Autism Sneaks posted:huh that's funny, I didn't realize that leftists in "America/the West" compromised the entire far left globally, no wonder they're all a bunch of ivory tower dummies ok that's fair, the only non-american far left i've talked to have being chinese and they mostly are old people who just recites party slogans and wants to invade taiwan so yeah, they are far better than the avg lf poster
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Nov 11, 2017 09:12
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rudatron posted:Even if America had been subject to a military invasion from mexico or whatever, that still wouldn't justify any of the anti-hispanic stuff we see. That was the entire point. If America had been subject to a military invasion from Mexico, it's natural that the American state would be hesitant about issuing citizenship to Mexican nationals - because issues of national defense take on new dimensions when there's a threat of infiltration by imperialistic foreign powers. This is what I mean by conflating xenophobia with racism. People are invoking individual Chinese peoples' problematic opinions on particular races as if it's the same thing as Chinese state policy regarding naturalization - it's not. Homework Explainer has never claimed that Chinese people can't be racist, only that the explicit policies of the Chinese government are anti-racist and go out of their way to preserve the autonomy and cultures of China's ethnic minorities. And, IIRC, China is one of the most ethnically diverse countries on the planet if not the most ethnically diverse. Those people all have citizenship, but it's hard for foreigners to get it. It's ridiculous to claim that this is some kind of officially racist policy, and that the racist opinions of individual Chinese are the same thing as their xenophobic stance on foreign naturalization. I asked a few pages ago why Chinese citizenship even matters, and the response was a deafening silence. Do you really want the right to vote in China? I get why Home Ex would want to become a citizen if he wants to join the CCP, but otherwise I fail to see how it's all that important. It's not as if being a Chinese citizen confers inalienable human rights or anything.
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Nov 11, 2017 09:24
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anyway, this has probably reached the dead end it was inevitably going to, homeex post some pics plz
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Nov 11, 2017 09:24
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:If America had been subject to a military invasion from Mexico, it's natural that the American state would be hesitant about issuing citizenship to Mexican nationals - because issues of national defense take on new dimensions when there's a threat of infiltration by imperialistic foreign powers. This is what I mean by conflating xenophobia with racism. People are invoking individual Chinese peoples' problematic opinions on particular races as if it's the same thing as Chinese state policy regarding naturalization - it's not. Homework Explainer has never claimed that Chinese people can't be racist, only that the explicit policies of the Chinese government are anti-racist and go out of their way to preserve the autonomy and cultures of China's ethnic minorities. And, IIRC, China is one of the most ethnically diverse countries on the planet if not the most ethnically diverse. i'm not reading this lol
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Nov 11, 2017 09:26
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Jose posted:i'm not reading this lol 
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Nov 11, 2017 09:27
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i've already outlined what i believe the core of this dispute is: it's about moral standards. neither you nor homeex would ever accept these policies as legitimate, had they been done by the US, and that is an absolute fact. Nor would you be ignoring or excusing the treatment of Tibet or Xinjiang, had that been done in the west. "Seperate but equal" political structures, in the face of employment discrimination, wouldn't fly either, for one second.
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Nov 11, 2017 09:29
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rudatron posted:i've already outlined what i believe the core of this dispute is: it's about moral standards. Moral standards have no place in international affairs, which is why the only morally consistent position is to be a communist internationalist and destroy all nation-states.
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Nov 11, 2017 09:34
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Moral standards have no place in international affairs, which is why the only morally consistent position is to be a communist internationalist and destroy all nation-states. this doesn't jive with your racism is fine since i don't live there so am not effected stance
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Nov 11, 2017 09:35
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Jose posted:this doesn't jive with your racism is fine since i don't live there so am not effected stance I didn't say racism in foreign countries was fine, just that to me it literally doesn't matter. Go to bed.
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Nov 11, 2017 09:37
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its 8:40am mate
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Nov 11, 2017 09:38
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Jose posted:its 8:40am mate That's Goon bedtime.
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Nov 11, 2017 09:39
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:I didn't say racism in foreign countries was fine, just that to me it literally doesn't matter. the international ideal unites the human race
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Nov 11, 2017 09:40
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that ideal is racism
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Nov 11, 2017 09:40
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:I didn't say racism in foreign countries was fine, just that to me it literally doesn't matter. not very internationalist of you
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Nov 11, 2017 09:40
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:I wouldn't say it got more imaginative. Imaginative was the wrong word. I should have said "speculative". In general the SMAC factions were based on what was at the time the powerful geopolitical ideologies, more or less taken to extremes. Morgan and Miriam pull double duty for conservatism. Morgan being the finance corporate aspect. Miriam was specifically an American Evangelical, and boy howdy it shows Deidre is clearly an analogue to the Global Green movement, Zak is actually the most interesting and funny in hindsight. He was clearly a stand in for the then new Russian Federation, at a time when it's future was uncertain and could have gone in many ways, but was generally looking to be a neoliberal technocratic regime. Boy did that prediction not age well. Lal is just literally the UN. Santiago represents authoritarian juntas that dominated much of Latin America. Yang is the oddest. He's got this weird nihilistic, legalistic, collectivism mix going on. But ultimately he represents 90's China as a growing power. The SMAX factions clearly have a unifying thematic descision of being speculative. Rather than modern global forces taken to ideological extremes of SMAC; they were more fantastical imaginings of sci-fi societies. Transhumanism, Cyperpunk, Pirates, An eco cult led by an indigo child. They felt more like something you'd see in speculative sci-fi, rather than the geopolitical commentary of the SMAC factions. Ultimately, it was a good counterpoise to the base game from a writing perspective. Many of them also serve as narrative foils to the base factions. Sadly you are right that the expansion factions didn't get their due diligence of flavor text, and feel hollow in comparison to the base factions. But the germs of ideas behind the SMAX factions aren't any less interesting, it's a shame they didn't double the tech tree.
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Nov 11, 2017 09:45
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Typo posted:ok that's fair, the only non-american far left i've talked to have being chinese and they mostly are old people who just recites party slogans and wants to invade taiwan so yeah, they are far better than the avg lf poster
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Nov 11, 2017 10:30
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