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Mr Interweb posted:I thought this was a previous one he did, but it's NEW? Destiny decided to bring him on after what that shitfest with Southern, Roaming Millenial, et al? I suspect Destiny is just competitive in nature and enjoys this stuff.
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Nov 9, 2017 19:49
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Harrow posted:As I understand it, here's the way to tell what's cultural appropriation from what isn't: That Blade Runner stuff is just racism, I think. The reason there’s generic Japanese-ish stuff in the background is because in the 80s America felt like Japan was an existential threat to its dominance and national spirit, like Japan was supplanting and consuming America. In Blade Runner, a Japanese aesthetic and Japanese language and people are just another sign of decay. That’s why there’s a recurring fusion of Asian and American cultures in dystopian film—it’s because dystopian film is from the 70s/80s and that time saw Japanese economic and cultural dominance as scary. There’s no interest in the reality of Japan in even a condescending or aesthetically appreciative way like you’d find in that avril lavigne video about Hello Kitty or those t-shirts sold in Asia with nonsense English phrases on them that the internet used to think were so funny.
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Nov 9, 2017 19:57
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Man, this Fuentes guy is a card. "The will of the people is paramount and the government should always seek to obey that will" "Okay, so considering everything Trump does is unpopular as gently caress, is he also not going against the will of the people?" "No, see that's different because Mexicans washed up on shore 20 years ago so the true will of the people has been tainted" I'm paraphrasing here but that's pretty much how it's going. Also, holy poo poo they spend a goddamned HOUR just on Fuentes dumbass claim that congress knowingly lied to the public about their sinister plans to increase immigration in 1965.
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Nov 9, 2017 21:04
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the thing that bugs me is how long winded these fuckers can be. i value brevity and efficient communication, and i start to get annoyed irl if someone is bad at telling a story or if they just start meandering or rambling. like get to the point. i saw that three hour "debate" and i'm like, what are they debating about? who loves to hear themselves talk the most?
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Nov 9, 2017 21:06
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I suspect it's up to being in a "debate" culture where simply talking the loudest, the longest, and drowning out your opponents enough until they give up and gently caress off means you win.
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Nov 9, 2017 21:35
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Another thing that's aggravating about right-wingers is that they'll make some either offensive, or incredibly stupid comment, and when they're called out in, they spend eons trying to deny it, insisting that the mean ole' liberals are twisting their words, all the while pretty much reinforcing that the original view was correct all along.
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Nov 9, 2017 22:33
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Kevin Logan and Coach Red Pill: An Epic in Three Parts The descent of Man-osphere - Episode 43 - Coach Red Pill https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80WbZGo4IRg Coach Red Pill wants to take [Kevin Logan] out on a date! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exGc9h9oGmQ (annoying audio warning) [Kevin Logan] Talking with Coach Red Pill https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qr1mmOdDHM
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Nov 10, 2017 00:09
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The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > The Youtube Intellectual Mock Thread - (annoying audio warning)
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Nov 10, 2017 00:15
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Goon Danton posted:The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > The Youtube Intellectual Mock Thread - (annoying audio warning) look you dont need to put a disclaimer on the thread that i post itt ok
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Nov 10, 2017 00:17
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boner confessor posted:look you dont need to put a disclaimer on the thread that i post itt ok "You're sounding a little upsetty-spaghetti."
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Nov 10, 2017 00:51
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boner confessor posted:the thing that bugs me is how long winded these fuckers can be. i value brevity and efficient communication, and i start to get annoyed irl if someone is bad at telling a story or if they just start meandering or rambling. like get to the point. i saw that three hour "debate" and i'm like, what are they debating about? who loves to hear themselves talk the most? murphyslaw posted:I suspect it's up to being in a "debate" culture where simply talking the loudest, the longest, and drowning out your opponents enough until they give up and gently caress off means you win. it's the gish gallop. you keep saying bullshit line after bullshit line to the point it's impossible for your opponent to refute everything and if they don't refute every single solitary stupid thing you said you "win".
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Nov 10, 2017 01:34
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In the Fuentes debate Destiny shouldn't have argued about the founding father's dedication to Whiteness. If the founding father's didn't write whiteness into our laws, that's great, but the real question should be why it matters. The founding fathers were fearsome and fallible freedom fighters, not freethinking fellows. If they figured philosophy falsely, future freemen should fix fundamentals. F.
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Nov 10, 2017 07:14
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The worst submarine posted:In the Fuentes debate Destiny shouldn't have argued about the founding father's dedication to Whiteness. If the founding father's didn't write whiteness into our laws, that's great, but the real question should be why it matters. The founding fathers were fearsome and fallible freedom fighters, not freethinking fellows. If they figured philosophy falsely, future freemen should fix fundamentals. F. Because the US reveres the constitution as as a holy piece of scripture rather than a legal document.
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Nov 10, 2017 07:45
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Groovelord Neato posted:it's the gish gallop. you keep saying bullshit line after bullshit line to the point it's impossible for your opponent to refute everything and if they don't refute every single solitary stupid thing you said you "win". How the gently caress do you counter it without just calling it out?
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Nov 10, 2017 09:03
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I think you just have to try to call it out to persuade the people listening to the individual rather than the twisted idiots themselves, Andrew Neil had an interview with Katie Hopkins on the BBC a while back and had a similar outcome where she just ranted like a dog with its bollocks caught in a trap: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPGJs_skkgI
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Nov 10, 2017 12:36
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Somfin posted:How the gently caress do you counter it without just calling it out? it's really all you can do. point out that they if they had a cogent argument they wouldn't have to go on and on and when they started galloping they just ignored the point you made.
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Nov 10, 2017 14:08
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The other option comes from the simple fact that a gish gallop is basically a buffet of arguments for you to choose from. Pick the worst one and hammer them on it. Don't let them pivot to another one, since if they didn't want to talk about it, why did they bring it up? This works best outside of a formal debate where you can interrupt them mid gallop. If you are doing a formal debate, you shouldn't have agreed to debate the kind of person who gish gallops and you're getting what you deserve. Goon Danton fucked around with this message at 14:45 on Nov 10, 2017 |
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Nov 10, 2017 14:43
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Generally I think you'd have the moderator come and sort them out. If you don't have a moderator or they don't then you're not debating queensberry rules and your objective is to make them poo poo their pants live on stage because that's winning the debate.
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Nov 10, 2017 15:26
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OwlFancier posted:Generally I think you'd have the moderator come and sort them out. It also doesn't help that the only people watching these debates are fans of one side or the other. The only way these debates have any real impact is on a neutral audience.
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Nov 10, 2017 15:58
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Yeah fundamentally for all that they go on about the power of debate there is gently caress all actual debate going on because nobody does that outside of academia. What you're having is a big flaming row and willy waving contest on the internet. You win by having the biggest waggliest dick in the room. There's nothing intellectual about it. It's PPV wrestling for people who flinch at the idea of physical violence.
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Nov 10, 2017 16:03
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Mr Interweb posted:I thought this was a previous one he did, but it's NEW? Destiny decided to bring him on after what that shitfest with Southern, Roaming Millenial, et al? YouTuber who makes money off making YouTube videos decided to make more videos? And with a controversial subject, so as to possibly attract more viewers? What could possibly be the motivation?!?
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Nov 10, 2017 16:07
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Double it up with him being a moba player and the pieces all fall together. He needs his terrible people fix.
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Nov 10, 2017 16:26
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WampaLord posted:YouTuber who makes money off making YouTube videos decided to make more videos? And with a controversial subject, so as to possibly attract more viewers? Right. I guess what I meant was that he did it so soon after the last two debates.
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Nov 10, 2017 19:01
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OwlFancier posted:Yeah fundamentally for all that they go on about the power of debate there is gently caress all actual debate going on because nobody does that outside of academia. What you're having is a big flaming row and willy waving contest on the internet. You win by having the biggest waggliest dick in the room. There's nothing intellectual about it. It's PPV wrestling for people who flinch at the idea of physical violence. i aint gonna lie i'd love to "debate" these people just cuz it'd be fun to dunk on them over and over.
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Nov 10, 2017 19:06
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Somfin posted:How the gently caress do you counter it without just calling it out? Limit to answering or responding to one question/topic at a time.
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Nov 10, 2017 20:10
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OwlFancier posted:Yeah fundamentally for all that they go on about the power of debate there is gently caress all actual debate going on because nobody does that outside of academia. What you're having is a big flaming row and willy waving contest on the internet. You win by having the biggest waggliest dick in the room. There's nothing intellectual about it. It's PPV wrestling for people who flinch at the idea of physical violence. As far as internet debates matter, at least Destiny throws a bunch of studies' results at people, at which point his opponents have to strawmen/gaslight/deflect so hard that you can't but notice that they are alergic to facts.
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Nov 10, 2017 20:28
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Anyone listen to this chat between ContraPoints and the1janitor? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUubz71fZgA I'm 1/3rd of the way through and they're discussing getting dog-piled for talking with the "enemy". Interesting points: Contra thinks the poo poo that when down with Jesse Singal was an overreaction, doesn't think Chris Raygun is a Nazi, and she has some secret friends from the other side of the aisle that she keeps secret out of fear of a backlash. Is Contra wrong or is this binary view of us vs them ultimately toxic?
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Nov 11, 2017 00:22
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fallenturtle posted:Anyone listen to this chat between ContraPoints and the1janitor? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUubz71fZgA The answer in bold.
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Nov 11, 2017 00:37
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Archer666 posted:The answer in bold. If hearing the other side out is a risk, then your side is already wrong. Hence why the CHUDs and their ilk refuse to talk to or hear from their various enemies; they know they'll be convinced if they let their guards down.
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Nov 11, 2017 00:41
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fallenturtle posted:Anyone listen to this chat between ContraPoints and the1janitor? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUubz71fZgA It definitely is reductive and dangerous. The problem with youtube personalities is that we don’t see anything of their actual lives or know anything other than what they put up for view, but it creates a kind of illusion where we think we can extrapolate a whole life from what we see. I don’t know why Contra buddies around with shoeonhead because shoeonhead reasons in bad faith and refuses to take responsibility for what she says. But I don’t know anything about her in candid and genuine moments. I don’t know how she feels about what she is on the internet or how open she is as a person to learning and dialogue. I can’t judge Contra as anything other than her public presence or evaluate her on anything other than her arguments and public statements. In those she is a force for good. I think it’s weird and dangerous to puncture the boundary of private life and try to make sense of her friendships and relationships, not necessarily because a public person’s private life is out of bounds necessarily, but because life is so confusing and complex and resists totalizing attempts at understanding. It must be rough to be a youtube personality because so much of it is just you, and there is a strange kind of intimacy with an audience with chat streams or doing poo poo live in your kitchen or your bedroom and loving around on twitter. There’s so little mediation or distance to help you keep perspective and distance to live privately, and feedback on everything is so immediate and personal. I can believe it would mess someone up.
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Nov 11, 2017 00:58
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It's all the drawbacks of being famous with none of the benefits. I do hope Contra ends up being okay in the long run, she seems to be fairly stressed by recent Twitter drama and such.
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Nov 11, 2017 01:10
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She is a thoughtful and curious person condemned to a life of navigating spaces comprised of hot takes and thoughtlessness, and that’s as true of many of the people who think of themselves as being on her “side” as it is of the nazis. It has to be exhausting. Lindsay Ellis has said some things about how stressful and gross it is to have to live partially on the internet, and it sounds terrible. But they do such important work so well, I hope they and the others can find a way to stay healthy and keep going.
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Nov 11, 2017 01:30
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Yeah, my ultimate fear is that Contra gives up because the tumblrites keep giving her poo poo for not being %100 "Right" On everything. I've seen way to many trans women chased off Twitter and such because they still supported Clinton and HOLY poo poo does that suck.
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Nov 11, 2017 02:37
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I think us vs them is accurate. Because whether they identify as such or not, there's a contingent of people in the world who are functionally hostile to economic leftism and to social progressiveness. The specific nature of their hostility doesn't really matter because they will all work together to oppose me, so I wholly favour working with like minded people to oppose them at every turn. They're not going to play fair so I don't see why I should either. Some people of course are in the enviable position as to not be immediately affected by the actions of those people so they can do things like be cordial and friendly to them and wonder why we can't just all get along. And they won't deviate from that position until their circumstances force them to. Doesn't make them correct, though.
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Nov 11, 2017 04:12
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fallenturtle posted:Contra thinks the poo poo that when down with Jesse Singal was an overreaction, doesn't think Chris Raygun is a Nazi, and she has some secret friends from the other side of the aisle that she keeps secret out of fear of a backlash. Gonna go with they're wrong on this one and in a pretty bad sounding way, honestly getting worried about Contra lately. Singal is a poo poo person and they basically got played by them and won't own it, as they've already gone back to dogwhistling and baiting terrible people with a shiny new "But see I can't be a bigot!" card tucked away, then Chris Ray Gun is a cowardly rear end racist and the last bit just sounds weird, if you're friends with nazi sympathizers you should probably  .
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Nov 11, 2017 04:29
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See, the thing that drives me mad about shits like chris ray gun and armoured sceptic and even sargon to some degree is that they fundamentally don’t care. They just play at deadly serious things without any fundamental ethics or principles and just waste their worthless lives enacting the role of the one smartass in your high school English class who only wanted to get one up on the teacher by picking pointless arguments. I don’t see how a principled person could remain friends with someone who doesn’t care about consequences or the truth unless the whole person were something more serious and real. There’s such an empty narcissism in just feeling smug and throwing bombs without any convictions. I say Sargon is only partially like that because he is pretty committed to racism and woman-hating.
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Nov 11, 2017 04:48
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business hammocks posted:See, the thing that drives me mad about shits like chris ray gun and armoured sceptic and even sargon to some degree is that they fundamentally don’t care. They just play at deadly serious things without any fundamental ethics or principles and just waste their worthless lives enacting the role of the one smartass in your high school English class who only wanted to get one up on the teacher by picking pointless arguments. In one video Contra mentioned she used to be on Sargon and company's side of things. So, I guess she's less likely to sever ties with people on that end of the political spectrum since if there was hope for her, maybe there is for them too. I think that's pretty stupid and shows some extreme naiveté and it makes me look at her videos as more disingenuous than before, but I guess I can see why she may want to remain friends with a bunch of dipshits.
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Nov 11, 2017 07:44
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Her earlier videos to my knowledge were what I would describe as very centrist. Which is why I generally think her fondness for talking to people is a remnant of that, a belief that you can talk people out of anything.
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Nov 11, 2017 08:21
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OwlFancier posted:Which is why I generally think her fondness for talking to people is a remnant of that, a belief that you can talk people out of anything. I've said this before, and I will say it again, but this is the issue. It is the white hot core of how Contra reasons. I may well respect it and agree with it in general, and I certainly disagree with the sheer viciousness of the comments attacking her, but it comes down to your own personal calculus of wether it works or not. Personally I am always pleased whenever I see Shaun post his "I started thinking about things differently when I saw your videos" posts, so I can't be too against people getting their views changed.
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Nov 11, 2017 08:47
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I believe anyone can change opinions, but that the strongest & most lasting changes come when people work through something themselves (or you trick them into thinking they did it themselves, anyway). Live debates aren't the best place for that to happen, usually, especially with an audience watching. I guess Contra has the trans visibility reasoning, though. A lot of the folks she talks to will have fanbases that think all trans people are lunatic monsters, & her being generally chill & smart is a good counter to that.
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Nov 11, 2017 11:43
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