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Swordfish was last weekend. I didn't pay much attention because I was busy coming last at a foil tournament, but here's a livestream of the finals. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Mj6aiYlT-Y I only watched the sabre and... It's still not pretty. Siivola fucked around with this message at 14:34 on Nov 10, 2017 |
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Nov 10, 2017 14:31
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Siivola posted:Swordfish was last weekend. I didn't pay much attention because I was busy coming last at a foil tournament, but here's a livestream of the finals. We're at a point now where athleticism is beating out technique, and this is allowed partially because the rules at events like Swordfish don't demand proper application of technique. Now that the Scandinavians are losing to the Russians (who are on the whole far more athletic than the Scandinavians) you are suddenly seeing a push from certain individuals to increase the complexity of the rulesets to better facilitate less-sloppy fencing. I watched the highlights video, and besides the wrestling (which I'm ignoring because I'm incapable of judging it) it looked pretty bad. Far worse than some of the American fencing I've seen in recent years, which has steadily become more technical since adopting rulesets with higher thresholds for the technical aspects of fencing. Some things that I believe would tighten up Swordfish's fencing: -Strikes should hit with proper mechanics [quality] (speed, distance on the sword, arm extension, edge alignment, degrees of rotation, footing), -successful afterblows or a failure to properly defend after a successful strike should completely wash that exchange for the agent, -successful afterblows should grant a point if the blow they follow is lacking quality and landed on a lesser target (i.e. the agent strikes with the flat against the patient's leading leg, the patient retaliates with a clean strike to the agent's completely undefended upper opening), -just straight up ban the geisling (one handed snipes to the leading leg). 99% of the time they land without quality and only a handful of people on earth can successful cut with it anyway. It should be noted that I am only speaking about longsword fencing as I have little to no experience with the other weapons. From what I understand the rapier tournament was especially bad, with people using the rapier as a sidesword (i.e. throwing tons of sloppy cuts) rather than going for more technical thrusts. The way to fix this is incredibly simple: ban cuts with the rapier.
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Nov 10, 2017 14:57
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The afterblow rule is silly and way too easy to abuse. If the (afterblow) action starts after the hit, it should not count. Watching a guy getting whacked in the face and then afterwards slashes out and nullifies the initial attack is silly.
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Nov 11, 2017 01:47
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Verisimilidude posted:-successful afterblows or a failure to properly defend after a successful strike should completely wash that exchange for the agent, ImplicitAssembler posted:Watching a guy getting whacked in the face and then afterwards slashes out and nullifies the initial attack is silly.
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Nov 11, 2017 11:21
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Well, I can't say much about realism but the afterblow thing in the historical sabre reminds me of those simul calls in sport sabre. Looks like you guys are running into the same problems as us...
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Nov 12, 2017 13:24
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ImplicitAssembler posted:The afterblow rule is silly and way too easy to abuse. If the (afterblow) action starts after the hit, it should not count. In my mind I was thinking strikes happening in the same tempo (so a failure to defend on the agent's side), but I can see how even that can be gamed to some extent.
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Nov 13, 2017 15:06
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The only certainty of a competitive rule set is that people will find a way to game it
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Nov 13, 2017 15:25
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Team USA's men's foil crushed it in Tokyo over the weekend 
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Nov 13, 2017 15:52
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Any sick MCW flicks?
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Nov 14, 2017 12:06
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My first foil died today.   LM crowbar, November 26th 2016 – November 15th 2017
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Nov 15, 2017 23:12
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Verisimilidude posted:In my mind I was thinking strikes happening in the same tempo (so a failure to defend on the agent's side), but I can see how even that can be gamed to some extent. My hot take is that as long as the 'defender' hasn't started the forward motion of his (counter)attack, the initial attack should count.
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Nov 15, 2017 23:25
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ImplicitAssembler posted:My hot take is that as long as the 'defender' hasn't started the forward motion of his (counter)attack, the initial attack should count. I agree completely
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Nov 15, 2017 23:44
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ImplicitAssembler posted:My hot take is that as long as the 'defender' hasn't started the forward motion of his (counter)attack, the initial attack should count.
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Nov 16, 2017 02:26
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Ravenfood posted:And lo, right-of-way was born. Not the same.
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Nov 16, 2017 03:07
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ImplicitAssembler posted:Not the same. You almost rewrote the definition of "attack" from the rule book. It's the same.
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Nov 16, 2017 07:58
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Not at all. Watch the Swordfish videos. People will start their attacking action after they've been hit and nullify the initial hit because for some reason they have a rule that any subsequent 'afterblow' will nullify the initial attack, even if it's successful.
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Nov 16, 2017 08:06
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I'm pretty sure that you mean actions that are begun after the first strike lands, but you left that part kinda vague and it's easy to read you to mean actions that are begun after the initial offensive action begins. Speaking of afterblows, I recently started wondering if it is the afterblow rule that promotes those tippy-tappy attacks you often see that just outright bounce off the target. There might be a reasonable argument that focusing on the afterblow too much encourages people to forget proper follow-through in favour of pulling back to guard as fast as possible. Here's a neat video on how people cut in sparring and how they make those same cuts with a sharp: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=418lhMcIx48 I mean, I haven't fenced a historical weapon in a year so this is all theorycrafting for ~prettier fencing~. I might be full of poo poo as usual.
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Nov 16, 2017 10:18
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Siivola posted:I'm pretty sure that you mean actions that are begun after the first strike lands, but you left that part kinda vague and it's easy to read you to mean actions that are begun after the initial offensive action begins. It's a huge issue that people don't spar like they cut. You can see the difference between the sparring cuts and the tatami cuts in that video.
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Nov 16, 2017 14:11
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the easiest way to stop garbage fencing is instead to have a culture where fighters call their shots in a tournament and to raise up a culture of honor and sportsmanship, instead of relying on judges who can't see things properly. in the sca ( ) when someone lands a shot that was obviously not good - or weak, or max extension without force, or opens themselves up for an afterblow, 90% of the time the other person will not take it - and half the time they do, the other person will call it back. this does not happen in HEMA.
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Nov 17, 2017 03:02
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also btw athleticism only beats out technique anyways if you are a mediocre fighter. i have seen the best of the best and you need skill and technique to beat them, not "athleticism". that only carries you so far, and only with mid grade fighters.
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Nov 17, 2017 03:04
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your friend a dog posted:also btw athleticism only beats out technique anyways if you are a mediocre fighter. i have seen the best of the best and you need skill and technique to beat them, not "athleticism". that only carries you so far, and only with mid grade fighters. This is an interesting point, I see this a lot amongst novice sport fencers. When they're beginners, the faster and more aggressive ones will generally win, but with a little experience the ones with more careful technique will figure out how to beat them most of the time. It also leads to safer fencing! Taking it one level further to the more experienced people I know, people with only one of these traits are always trumped by someone with both good fitness and good technique. (Time for me to practise my tempo changes and hit the gym.)
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Nov 17, 2017 12:32
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Technique and skill go out the window if you're huffing and puffing to continue moving. It's a sport.
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Nov 19, 2017 18:43
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i mean you need a bare minimum of athleticism, but I'm certainly not a ripped adonis and I can fight for hours straight. so long as you're not a fat piece of poo poo, it shouldn't matter that much
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Nov 19, 2017 21:44
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they've come out with a fencing barbie, and the model in the photo has a tiny saber http://time.com/5023094/mattel-hijab-barbie-ibtihaj-muhammad/
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Nov 20, 2017 13:35
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HEY GUNS posted:they've come out with a fencing barbie, and the model in the photo has a tiny saber And the Barbie is modeled after an Olympian, no less. Here's an ESPN mini-interview about the doll as well. Muhammad seems quite pleased with the doll; she even had her clothing company make a dress for the doll's red carpet: https://twitter.com/IbtihajMuhammad/status/930575621025157121 Personally, I'm pleased that Mattel aped the old US nationality logo over the new one.
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Nov 20, 2017 21:03
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this is extremely  for sword enthusiasts, black people, and US Muslims
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Nov 20, 2017 21:05
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Wait so Muhammad is a fashion designer and both Imboden and Chamley-Watson are models? What is up with your team?
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Nov 20, 2017 21:07
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Siivola posted:Wait so Muhammad is a fashion designer and both Imboden and Chamley-Watson are models? 
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Nov 20, 2017 21:15
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Siivola posted:Wait so Muhammad is a fashion designer and both Imboden and Chamley-Watson are models? What's hosed up is that Imboden had to drop out of college because of his modelling, because the NCAA would've revoked his "student athlete" status if he modeled while going to school. quote:The NCAA excused my prior modeling because, per their explanation, it preceded my NCAA career. Now that I was an “active athlete,” I was barred from gaining compensation for any modeling going forward.
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Nov 20, 2017 22:45
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BirdOfPlay posted:And the Barbie is modeled after an Olympian, no less. Here's an ESPN mini-interview about the doll as well. Muhammad seems quite pleased with the doll; she even had her clothing company make a dress for the doll's red carpet: This is putting a tremendous thorn in the side of a lot of anti-Muslim fencers and I'm loving every second of it
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Nov 20, 2017 22:51
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BirdOfPlay posted:What's hosed up is that Imboden had to drop out of college because of his modelling, because the NCAA would've revoked his "student athlete" status if he modeled while going to school. Verisimilidude posted:This is putting a tremendous thorn in the side of a lot of anti-Muslim fencers and I'm loving every second of it 
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Nov 20, 2017 22:53
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are those anti "muslim fencers" or "anti muslim" fencers
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Nov 20, 2017 23:43
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your friend a dog posted:are those anti "muslim fencers" or "anti muslim" fencers Lol how did I know you’d respond?
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Nov 21, 2017 00:07
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Verisimilidude posted:Lol how did I know you’d respond? genuine question, please take ur wierd politics thataway <------ outside of the fencin thread
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Nov 21, 2017 01:38
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your friend a dog posted:genuine question, please take ur wierd politics Nah, sorry. Weird angry white men in the fencing community getting impotently pissed off at brown people and Muslims for being successful are worth mocking, and this entire community would be better off without them.
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Nov 21, 2017 04:02
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Yes, that was the question you loving retard. Was that people who just anti muslim fencers, or is there a specific group in the fencing community of people who are anti muslims that fence. I realize from all your whiny posting in the thread that you're not very good at reading, and you're not good enough at fencing to actually argue with me about technique, so this was probably you're only chance to take a shot at me, but you just make yourself look like an idiot.
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Nov 21, 2017 06:31
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nice meltdown
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Nov 21, 2017 06:54
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ImplicitAssembler posted:nice meltdown 
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Nov 21, 2017 07:01
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Calm down everyone I think the bigger issue is, why is the sabre fencer doll dressed for epee?
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Nov 21, 2017 11:47
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Mike Edelson finally released his book on cutting mechanics with the longsword. Cutting with the Medieval Sword: Theory and Application I can attest to his cutting and martial abilities. He is well-respected in the HEMA community, and his background in cutting mechanics stems from his time as a practioner of various JSAs.
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Nov 22, 2017 22:13
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