|
Redeemable for sweet child porn.
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2017 23:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 04:32 |
|
|
Dammit beat me to it uhh money laundering, drugs
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2017 23:50
|
|
|
Blade Runner posted:What advantages Like, no matter how much you argue that for your uses cryptocurrencies have no advantages, they are still different from existing currencies. Some people, all around the world now numbering in the millions, find that they have uses for these cryptocurrencies precisely because of these differences from fiat money. It's just that simple.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2017 23:52
|
|
|
Hey Bitcoin thread. Here's a story. I'm one of those theoretical people who traded before and during the fiscal crisis. I'd inherited some money and decided that bank interest is for chumps, and the index funds my bank set me up with sucked. I day-traded quite a bit for fun and profit. In the high six digits per year up to the crisis (not balance, unfortunately), but nothing close to professional. I read in the news a crash was coming. Several times. The market was overheating. More and more people put the crash at the fall or the end of the year. While I had only traded for two years, I made money. More and more (as the bubble grew it is obvious afterwards). A monkey can do that in a bull market, and by drat, I'm smarter than a monkey. At least a very dumb monkey (and ugly). I felt like a wold-class investor because I made more than the lovely bank accounts or the index funds. While I knew and believed a crash was coming, I didn't cash out. I was making money, and the crash was still a month or two away, so it would be stupid not to ride it for another couple of weeks. Then it came. Slowly at first. Relatively, that is. I was a bit down an some stocks but overall decently up. I lost 5-10% in a day. I didn't cash out, because the market would turn - my experience told me, after a crash there'd be a rebound, so I'd wait for that and then cash out - and anyway, I was still up overall. I lost 15% the day after. After having lost over 50% in a week or two (I was heavily exposed to the banking sector), I gave up waiting for the rebound and just left my investments for a good handful of years. At any time, I could have cashed out and limited my losses. But on the other hand, then I wouldn't have gotten the rebound. But I am sure it is different this time around. Bitcoin is a completely new thing and doesn't operate the same as the fiscal crisis. Or the tech bubble. Or literally every fricking bubble before it, going back to the tulips. If Bitcoin keeps increasing as it has the past year, a single butt will be more than the GDP of the entire world in around two decades, and even Sir Mix-a-lot will tell you that's a lot of butt. But keep telling you that this time around it is different, and be careful not to read fiscal magazines from the mid 2000s where fiscal gurus explain how it is actually completely sustainable to lend money and refinance loans for people who cannot afford to pay them back, because the arguments may sound too familiar. Yes, you can ride it up. But sometime it will stop. And you don't know when. When the drop comes, you will not be able to tell it from the dips and rebounds. You can win if you "hodl" onto your real money during the entire drop (E: by real money, I mean USD or EUR or whatever, I don't ironically mean Bitcoin). But that goes entirely against the strategy you use now to earn using the bull market. It's super-easy to predict a crisis after it happened. It's easy to see all the signs 5 years later. But when you're in the middle of it, you have to switch strategy from what has made you money to doing the exact opposite, and there will be nothing telling you any clearer than people telling you "it will crash soon." You can limit the inevitable loss by only betting money you are willing to lose almost in full. That's fine, nobody is against that. But don't think that betting on Bitcoin because is a viable investment strategy for a substantial amount because we're in a bull market right now and the crash will only come "after the next split" or "when we hit $10000". klafbang fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Nov 16, 2017 |
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2017 23:55
|
|
|
Ham Sandwiches posted:Like, no matter how much you argue that for your uses cryptocurrencies have no advantages, they are still different from existing currencies. Some people, all around the world now numbering in the millions, find that they have uses for these cryptocurrencies precisely because of these differences from fiat money. It's just that simple. What advantages That was a question, detail the advantages
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 00:01
|
|
|
Ham Sandwiches posted:If you believe that cryptocurrencies have advantages over existing currencies that make them useful to people for transactions, then it's a reason for them to be appreciating as their usage / adoption increases No one has adequately explained to me what makes BTC better than fiat.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 00:02
|
|
|
Like, no matter how much you argue that for your uses cryptocurrencies have no advantages, they are still different from existing currencies. Pedophiles all around the world now numbering in the millions, find that they have uses for these cryptocurrencies precisely because of these differences from fiat money. It's just that simple.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 00:03
|
|
|
klafbang posted:But I am sure it is different this time around. Bitcoin is a completely new thing and doesn't operate the same as the fiscal crisis. Or the tech bubble. Or literally every fricking bubble before it, going back to the tulips. If Bitcoin keeps increasing as it has the past year, a single butt will be more than the GDP of the entire world in around two decades, and even Sir Mix-a-lot will tell you that's a lot of butt. But keep telling you that this time around it is different, and be careful not to read fiscal magazines from the mid 2000s where fiscal gurus explain how it is actually completely sustainable to lend money and refinance loans for people who cannot afford to pay them back, because the arguments may sound too familiar. For those that think cryptocurrencies are fundamentally new, and offer a time limited opportunity to make some gains as people realize that yes, cryptocurrencies have advantages, then this argument doesn't really work. I keep harping on the gambling / penny stocks comparisons because they both fail to address this point. When you go to a casino, that's a building that is built and maintained for the express purpose of taking your money, and wouldn't be maintain if it didn't succeed in that purpose. Sure, there are exceptions like poker tournaments, but the fundamental product of a casino is money loss for the customers over time with some fun in the process. The financial markets have been pretty dicey the past decade as governments and financial institutions take milking people to an artform, and I've been pretty underwhelmed with the long and short term investment opportunities since 2010. Cryptocurrencies are something different and new. There are absolutely speculators and day traders involved in them. However, unlike all the other examples listed of tulips and beanie babies or sir mix a lot cds, if you think that cryptocurrencies will end up a viable alternative to fiat money for a subset of transactions, and if you think that number is meaningfully higher than it is today, then it makes sense to wager that they will rise to a higher equilibrium point since the adoption is still not fairly widespread. I find it interesting when people say they'd rather trade penny stocks or day trade or other risky investments because, those methods have been done and tried and people have lost their shirts over time. Cryptocurrencies are new, and they're weird, and they're fraught with problems, but unlike the other stuff have some fundamental advantages and uses that existing currencies and instruments do not. Wagering that these uses are valid, and that increased adoption will lead to appreciation of the currency, is not the same as day trading imo but rather planning for future outcomes.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 00:05
|
|
|
Blade Runner posted:What advantages Different cryptocurrencies have different uses and advantages. From bitcoins to ether to whatever, they are fairly specialized (and getting more so) and offer some cool things they can do. Ethererum lets you do generate smart contracts, bitcoins can't be simply printed when a government gets in debt, etc. I know you'll disagree with these things, but those are differences, and people will have uses for them, which makes them a compelling alternative for some people. And you can look at the price as somewhat indicative of how useful they are.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 00:09
|
|
|
Sadly enough the use cases I would have for smart contracts are exactly the situations I would not be using a cryptocurrency for (buying a house or something).
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 00:12
|
|
|
Ham Sandwiches posted:Different cryptocurrencies have different uses and advantages. From bitcoins to ether to whatever, they are fairly specialized (and getting more so) and offer some cool things they can do. Ethererum lets you do generate smart contracts, bitcoins can't be simply printed when a government gets in debt, etc. I know you'll disagree with these things, but those are differences, and people will have uses for them, which makes them a compelling alternative for some people. And you can look at the price as somewhat indicative of how useful they are. The Ethereum smart contract system led to a new programmer accidentally deleting 300 million dollars Governments can print Bitcoins because literally anybody can print Bitcoins, that is what mining is, it is printing Bitcoins The first thing is not an advantage and the second is not true, so I am confused as to how you arrived at these
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 00:14
|
|
|
Blade Runner posted:The Ethereum smart contract system led to a new programmer accidentally deleting 300 million dollars The ethereum smart contract system was used in other cases too, and those worked out, are you fixating on one negative example as proof that it doesn't exist? Smart contracts are a thing, they work, they can present problems if done poorly, but for those that can navigate them they are a useful tool that didn't exist previously. Bitcoins are limited in supply, are you unaware of that or...?
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 00:17
|
|
|
Ham Sandwiches posted:Ethererum lets you do generate smart contracts, is this that thing where some noob said "what does this do?" and crashed everything the other week though Ham Sandwiches posted:bitcoins can't be simply printed when a government gets in debt, etc this is actually a very bad thing though for the same reasons we no longer use a gold standard
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 00:18
|
|
|
Ham Sandwiches posted:The ethereum smart contract system was used in other cases too, and those worked out, are you fixating on one negative example as proof that it doesn't exist? Smart contracts are a thing, they work, they can present problems if done poorly, but for those that can navigate them they are a useful tool that didn't exist previously. The one negative example resulted in 300 million dollars disappearing and it happened a week ago so yes, I am fixating on it Bitcoins are functionally limitless because altcoins and forks exist
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 00:20
|
|
|
Blade Runner posted:The one negative example resulted in 300 million dollars disappearing and it happened a week ago so yes, I am fixating on it Ok bro let's walk through this process. You ask me "how are they different." I explain smart contracts are a difference from fiat money. You refuse to acknowledge that it's a difference, and fixate on how that difference can be a negative. So you can agree that regular money doesn't allow smart contracts, right? You demanded an answer to the difference. You don't get to reject the answer because it has some downsides, it's different. As to the second point, this is not true, you are just making stuff up. Bitcoins have a cap on how many can exist. Either you have no idea what you're talking about or you're making stuff up to claim that they are not different.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 00:22
|
|
|
Ham Sandwiches posted:Ok bro let's walk through this process. You ask me "how are they different." I explain smart contracts are a difference from fiat money. You refuse to acknowledge that it's a difference, and fixate on how that difference can be a negative. So you can agree that regular money doesn't allow smart contracts, right? You didn't actually tell us what they are or how they are different though you just said they exist. Ok, what are they and why is a smart contract better than a contract enforceable by a US court? I can't answer your question until I know what they are. I mean I could wiki it quote:A smart contract is a computer protocol intended to facilitate, verify, or enforce the negotiation or performance of a contract. Smart contracts were first proposed by Nick Szabo in 1996. But like... okay? Honestly it sounds like a bunch of nerds got together and went "lol loving lawyers check THIS poo poo out." COMRADES fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Nov 17, 2017 |
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 00:23
|
|
|
COMRADES posted:You didn't actually tell me what they are or how they are different though you just said they exist. Ok, what are they and why is a smart contract better than a contract enforceable by a US court? For those kinds of details it seems like it would be best to do your own research, check google and youtube, the very important question that needed an answer was "how are they different from fiat money" and those are some differences from fiat money
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 00:25
|
|
|
Well okay my dude let me explain to you how my cum is different from fiat money thus people might want to use it for some reason instead of dollars. I mean try and make that argument at a strip club you'll end up in jail you know?
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 00:26
|
|
|
There's a dude in my office right now talking about bitcoin and how the only thing you need is cheap electricity. And something about electric cars.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 00:28
|
|
|
Ham Sandwiches posted:Ok bro let's walk through this process. You ask me "how are they different." I explain smart contracts are a difference from fiat money. You refuse to acknowledge that it's a difference, and fixate on how that difference can be a negative. So you can agree that regular money doesn't allow smart contracts, right? You demanded an answer to the difference. You don't get to reject the answer because it has some downsides, it's different. I did not ask how they were different, I asked what the advantages were You brought up something that was different but negative and so I am now making fun of you because you are an idiot who did not actually read my post you retard Blade Runner posted:What advantages Seen here, when I ask about advantages
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 00:29
|
|
|
COMRADES posted:Well okay my dude let me explain to you how my cum is different from fiat money thus people might want to use it for some reason instead of dollars. Let me know when millions of people start using your cum for transactions on exchanges worldwide and I think we can debate the merits of your spunk, until then cryptocurrencies seem to be the emerging alternative to fiat money transactions for the time being
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 00:29
|
|
|
Uranium 235 posted:i'm not exposed to tether at the moment so i'm not too concerned about how a tether meltdown would affect me. it's a factor i consider when deciding whether to move capital to an exchange like bittrex though. everyone who's exposed on bitcoin is exposed to tether. the notional "price" of bitcoin is strongly affected by the price on bitfinex, even when the "price" you're using doesn't include bitfinex in its weighted average. Gumbel2Gumbel posted:"I've been watching all this poo poo from the sidelines and Coinbase is still having a hell of a time trying to even confirm my identity, bank account AND debit card. All the while I watched my $5500 *not* turn into $7750 today. coinbase are still adding users so fast they don't have to give a poo poo if your stuff doesn't work in their automated system
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 00:30
|
|
"
|
Ham Sandwiches posted:until then cryptocurrencies seem to be the emerging alternative to fiat money transactions for the time being See but are they though or is this just some new fad widget people are piling into hoping for a ticket into the bourgeoisie life?
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 00:30
|
|
|
Blade Runner posted:I did not ask how they were different, I asked what the advantages were The advantage that some people have uses for smart contracts despite the one example of a buggy smart contract. It's a tool that can be used in different ways than fiat currency, it's an advantage over fiat currency that doesn't have that ability. The finite supply is another advantage for those concerned that a government will start printing large amounts of fiat currency or otherwise devaluing it, as recently happened in India. Again, I had no doubt that you would argue with these differences from fiat money or claim that they aren't advantages in any scenario, which is exactly what happened.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 00:33
|
|
|
smart contracts seem cool and all, I get that technologically there is interesting stuff going on in the world of bitcoin. but it all seems like a bunch of solutions in search of problems. I think the world has quite well figured out how to use currencies. it's not like the average persons life is going to be altered because they've been freed from having to use escrow services.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 00:33
|
|
|
COMRADES posted:See but are they though or is this just some new fad widget people are piling into hoping for a ticket into the bourgeoisie life? That's precisely what we're going to find out over time, isn't it?
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 00:33
|
|
|
Unless you're in Thailand trying to hire the services of 8 year old boy prostitutes.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 00:34
|
|
|
I don't think bitcoin is going to die. Its like astrology. It will morph over time. People will get taken to the cleaners via exchanges and scammers. I don't think the price will cause it to die. I think price will go up until people start investing into a cheaper coin, completing the circle.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 00:35
|
|
|
Ham Sandwiches posted:That's precisely what we're going to find out over time, isn't it? I guess so but in the meantime I'm just going to watch from the sidelines on this one.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 00:35
|
|
|
Ham Sandwiches posted:The advantage that some people have uses for smart contracts despite the one example of a buggy smart contract. It's a tool that can be used in different ways than fiat currency, it's an advantage over fiat currency that doesn't have that ability. It is not an advantage because smart contracts are inherently lovely and offer no real advantage over real, actual contracts The reason for this is that a smart contract is essentially a program which cannot be edited shoved together with a contract that cannot be interpreted by anything but a machine, which is retarded if you understand anything about programming or contracts, and this has been shown in full form by the several times smart contracts have hosed everyone over, for example when a man accidentally destroyed nearly a half billion dollars entirely by accident through the smart contract system If your country begins falling to inflational destitution your internet pog coins will not help you and a limited supply of something does not actually stop its value from becoming massively inflated or deflated relatively speaking, which you do not comprehend because you do not understand economics Neither of these are advantages because of this
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 00:39
|
|
|
I feel like it just keeps coming back to "libertarians who want no government anything."
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 00:41
|
|
|
I literally think Ham Sandwiches might be mentally ill: HS: "Bitcoin has loads of advantages to use it, thats why the price keeps going up and people are using it day to day" People: "Okay. Give me some advantages" HS: "Well it's an emerging tech, so we don't actually know the advantages, we'll just have to wait and find out". :thinking emoji:
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 00:43
|
|
|
COMRADES posted:I feel like it just keeps coming back to "libertarians who want no government anything." Authoritarianism now
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 00:43
|
|
|
COMRADES posted:No one has adequately explained to me what makes BTC better than fiat. that's because cryptocurrencies are basically fiat currencies, just fiat currencies issued by anonymous nerds online and not actually backed by any sort of government or similar organization the genuine advantage they have over, say, a paper currency issued by a man in your town who wears a tinfoil hat and believes himself to be the god emperor of the universe is that you've got a pretty good upfront guarantee of how the money creation process will work on an ongoing basis if your friends and neighbors decide to start using it for whatever reason of course current implementations of this are hugely inefficient, and the inability to conduct monetary policy is itself a major flaw, but a flaw that's extremely appealing to a certain kind of dipshit
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 00:44
|
|
|
Blade Runner posted:It is not an advantage because smart contracts are inherently lovely and offer no real advantage over real, actual contracts These are all reasons that you don't see them as advantages and your current understanding of currencies keeps you from being interested in cryptocurrencies, which is fine. For some of the people around the world, in different countries and circumstances, these cryptocurrencies do offer unique characteristics that may be advantageous that however much may not resonate with you, and that drives them to use cryptocurrencies for transactions. The citizens of Venezuela find cryptocurrencies very useful as a way to do transactions with people outside of Venezuela, that's clearly an advantage, despite you claiming that it can never be so.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 00:45
|
|
|
Drone_Fragger posted:I literally think Ham Sandwiches might be mentally ill: I literally think that people who have to call others mentally ill because they disagree with them are garbage people IRL, unironically, is this up to like 5 or 6 morons now? Get hosed
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 00:46
|
|
|
Drone_Fragger posted:I literally think Ham Sandwiches might be mentally ill: Somehow it was actually worse, with Ham insisting that I didn't ask about advantages, only differences, despite my asking specifically for advantages being on this page Ham Sandwiches posted:These are all reasons that you don't see them as advantages and your current understanding of currencies keeps you from being interested in cryptocurrencies, which is fine. You haven't actually defended your point, you've literally said "well that's just, like, your opinion, man. People love Buttcoin in Venezuela." You have not given advantages of Bitcoins, you have listed negatives of Bitcoin and are now insisting they are advantages "I've created a new currency, exactly like the dollar, but somebody kicks you in the dick every time you buy something." "That just seems inherently worse than the dollar" "Well some people LIKE being kicked in the dick! It's a fetish for them! Thus, Dickcoin is advantaged over fiat."
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 00:51
|
|
|
Ham Sandwiches posted:I literally think that people who have to call others mentally ill because they disagree with them are garbage people IRL, unironically, is this up to like 5 or 6 morons now? Get hosed tbh if a half-dozen people are telling you that you're coming across as unhinged I think it's probably worth considering the possibility that they may not all be moral degenerates who fail to appreciate your deep insights
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 00:51
|
|
|
Blade Runner posted:Somehow it was actually worse, with Ham insisting that I didn't ask about advantages, only differences, despite my asking specifically for advantages being on this page Sorry, I guess we can end this discussion by saying "I've listed off some differences, some people will see those as advantages and have uses for them even if you don't, and I sure didn't expect this to go any other way" quote:You have not given advantages of Bitcoins, you have listed negatives of Bitcoin and are now insisting they are advantages Yeah and if millions of people were buying dickcoins and using them for transactions and buying them on exchanges, I'd say "apparently the number of people that want to get kicked in the dick was higher than you thought, to where these dickcoins are useful for a subset of people, and the price will settle at some equilibrium point"
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 00:53
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 04:32 |
|
|
temple posted:I don't think bitcoin is going to die. Its like astrology. It will morph over time. People will get taken to the cleaners via exchanges and scammers. I don't think the price will cause it to die. I think price will go up until people start investing into a cheaper coin, completing the circle. If anything, cryptocurrencies (or some other kind of easy digital money) might end up existing like social media is now ubiquitous, but I really don't see why it has to (or will) be Bitcoin. Bitcoin's structure, as I understand it, is incredibly immutable and therefore unable to adapt without serious chaos.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 00:55
|
|
