|
Vanguard Vets are better against literally every target in the game with Power Swords and Chainswords rather than just Chainswords, and the upgrade is only 40 points for the squad. You get one fewer attack in exchange for 2/3rds of your attacks being made at AP-3. Good poo poo. 3+ save bruisers just get wrecked. 21 Power Sword attacks, of which 14 hit, of which 4.67 wound, of which 3.89 get through, followed up by another 1.48 from the Chainswords. Then do it again. On average, you have a dead Fex. Double Chainswords gets you 41 attacks, of which 27.33 hit, of which 9.11 wound, of which 3.04 get through armor. On average (after the second round) the Fex still has two wounds and wrecks your poo poo.
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 04:13
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 14:56 |
|
|
Uroboros posted:It’s hard to say, a big problem is now that initiative is gone the person who charges gets to hit first, meaning even nasty CC units can get their nuts pinched before they can let loose. Lightning claw terminators are pretty legit as far as CC goes. Lightning claw vanguard too I guess but 30 ppm for 1w marines instead of 43 for terminators isn't super impressive to me. Could go with a single claw + chainsword to still get off 2 solid wound rerolling attacks though and save some points. Strobe posted:Vanguard Vets are better against literally every target in the game with Power Swords and Chainswords rather than just Chainswords, and the upgrade is only 40 points for the squad. You get one fewer attack in exchange for 2/3rds of your attacks being made at AP-3. Good poo poo. 3+ save bruisers just get wrecked. gently caress fexes, the scariest melee stuff in the tyranid army have invuln saves You kill fexes with lascannons not with melee. In melee a genestealer doesn't give a poo poo about your power sword. Against stuff with invuln saves the lower AP of lightning claws vs a sword usually doesn't matter as well chutche2 fucked around with this message at 04:27 on Nov 17, 2017 |
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 04:17
|
|
|
Chuchu did you ever math-hammer out a theoretical Trotsky like I asked?
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 04:24
|
|
|
Xarlaxas posted:I guess that leaves my Autarch with a Warp Jump Generator out in the cold still though? Swooping Hawk Wings, Jetbikes, and Warp Jump Generators seem to make models into different units rather than being wargear. What do you mean by out in the cold? You can still use the index entry and cost the wargear per the codex.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 05:04
|
|
|
chutche2 posted:Lightning claw terminators are pretty legit as far as CC goes. Lightning claw vanguard too I guess but 30 ppm for 1w marines instead of 43 for terminators isn't super impressive to me. Could go with a single claw + chainsword to still get off 2 solid wound rerolling attacks though and save some points. Power Swords strike basically the perfect balance between cost (at a whopping 4 points) and effectiveness, and they're effective against units in practically every army. Lightning Claws at 8 and 12 points for one and two, respectively, doesn't really warrant (to me, at least) paying that much more per Vanguard Vet model to get the bonus. (22 points for a power sword and chainsword, 26/30 points for lightning claws) If you're building explicitly to kill 'Nids in close combat, then you probably want Storm Shields and Chainswords(?)  . Storm Shields tell Genestealers to go gently caress themselves.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 05:30
|
|
|
Strobe posted:Power Swords strike basically the perfect balance between cost (at a whopping 4 points) and effectiveness, and they're effective against units in practically every army. Lightning Claws at 8 and 12 points for one and two, respectively, doesn't really warrant (to me, at least) paying that much more per Vanguard Vet model to get the bonus. (22 points for a power sword and chainsword, 26/30 points for lightning claws) You have to consider the fairly high base cost of vanguard when looking at wargear options Sure a lightning claw is double the points but the extra points would only get you 1 extra power sword vanguard, and 11 lightning claw attacks are better than 13 power sword attacks against anything but a 2+ armor save If going with double claws, the extra points cost wouldn't quite be enough to get 7 power sword vanguard, and 16 lightning claw attacks is definitely better than 15 sword attacks + a few chainsword attacks vs most targets. If building for close combat against genestealers, one claw + a shield is probably the way to go because remember that lightning claws reroll failed wounds. Maybe an axe + shield instead if you want to save a few points, you'll wound a bit less often than a claw but it'll be close. One claw vs one chainsword are actually equal at killing genestealers on a 2A base model but against other targets chainswords are pretty poo poo. So if genestealers are literally your only concern the chainsword is fine but there will be other things to fight and other armies. Also I generally only give 2 or 3 out of a 5 model vanguard unit a shield, the rest get double weapons and rely on the shield guys to take hits first. So a good loadout would be 2-3 with chainsword + shield and the others with two claws. Regardless I was advocating for lightning claw terminators, especially if they drop to 26 points base for assault terminators like the faeit post said Chainsword vanguard have some value in that you're spending as few points as possible on a unit that'll be instantly killed as soon as they're done attacking but for the same points you could have vets with storm bolters putting out the same number of S4 Ap0 attacks without having to suicide themselves so idk. At least the vets will be alive next turn to overwatch. But genestealers aren't the only target, you get something like a flyrant dropping in and failing to charge you, throw some lightning claw vanguard at it for a pretty good chance of putting wounds on it, and if one survives the tyrant can't charge next turn. With their buff it can be hard to drop one with shooting in one turn when it deep strikes unless you're set up pretty well for it. Power swords extra AP gets nullfied by the invuln save against stuff like that compared to claws. Usually I give my sergeant a thunder hammer to throw at big bastards like that. But so the original example was vs a carnifex. Say 6 with a power sword vs 5 with a lightning claw for roughly the same points, the lightning claw attacks will outperform the swords even with the AP difference and fewer number of attacks due to rerolling wounds. Still think throwing vanguard at something like that is fairly pointless without thunder hammers but maybe you've already shot all your lascannons and you're still about to get charged. chutche2 fucked around with this message at 06:15 on Nov 17, 2017 |
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 05:43
|
|
|
Goddammit, I moved in the middle of building some Warriors and now I'm missing like 4 left legs. I thought I was so clever, gluing the right ones onto the tail part to allow easy priming and painting. And all the bits sites are out, of course.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 06:21
|
|
|
I'm thinking about going to AdeptiCon for the first time and registration starts tomorrow. Anyone have recommendations on what the coolest poo poo to do there is?
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 06:27
|
|
|
SpikeMcclane posted:I'm thinking about going to AdeptiCon for the first time and registration starts tomorrow. Anyone have recommendations on what the coolest poo poo to do there is? Anything. There are a lot of demos and stuff going on. Are you just going for 40k? Tilted Kilt and Chicago Deepdish Pizza while you are there as well.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 06:47
|
|
|
Proletariat Beowulf posted:Goddammit, I moved in the middle of building some Warriors and now I'm missing like 4 left legs. I thought I was so clever, gluing the right ones onto the tail part to allow easy priming and painting. And all the bits sites are out, of course. ...so they have the pogo-leg biomorph. That’s insidiously clever I’d say.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 07:20
|
|
|
Sharks Dont Sleep posted:...so they have the pogo-leg biomorph. That’s insidiously clever I’d say. Very biomass efficient.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 07:21
|
|
|
I have a Tyranid hive tyrant that I still haven't attached weapons to. Besides the obvious answer of magnetize the fucker and don't worry about it, what's the best weapon load out to use with it now? I bought a set of twin-linked devourers from Forgeworld almost two years ago, but never got around to attaching them.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 07:58
|
|
|
SpikeMcclane posted:I'm thinking about going to AdeptiCon for the first time and registration starts tomorrow. Anyone have recommendations on what the coolest poo poo to do there is? I'm planning on signing up for the Gentlemen's 40k Tournament. From the description, it seems more the speed of what I want to play. quote:This is a beginner/casual tournament. 3 rounds, 100 Power Levels, heavy sportsmanship and narrative focus. Modified ITC missions, avoiding WLD.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 07:59
|
|
|
Star Man posted:I have a Tyranid hive tyrant that I still haven't attached weapons to. Besides the obvious answer of magnetize the fucker and don't worry about it, what's the best weapon load out to use with it now? I bought a set of twin-linked devourers from Forgeworld almost two years ago, but never got around to attaching them. Probably a heavy venom cannon and either devourers or rending claws depending on if you want to punch stuff or not.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 08:09
|
|
|
chutche2 posted:Probably a heavy venom cannon and either devourers or rending claws depending on if you want to punch stuff or not. I have permanently fastened a set of wings to the hive tyrant, so...
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 08:11
|
|
|
Star Man posted:I have permanently fastened a set of wings to the hive tyrant, so... Sure but that doesn't mean anything, deep striking it somewhere 18 inches away to blast something with the cannon and put out 12 devourer shots doesn't mean you have to charge with it. With the deathspitter it can be 24 inches away but the deathspitter is only marginally better vs T6 and T7 and worse against everything else. Use the wings to avoid being shot top of 1 first and foremost, then putting it in melee is optional. On the other hand you can drop it somewhere, shoot the cannon, charge, and if it's still in combat next turn fall back and shoot the cannon again. Tyrants can have a lot of tactical options open to them depending on the loadout. chutche2 fucked around with this message at 08:19 on Nov 17, 2017 |
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 08:14
|
|
|
chutche2 posted:Sure but that doesn't mean anything, deep striking it somewhere 18 inches away to blast something with the cannon and put out 12 devourer shots doesn't mean you have to charge with it. With the deathspitter it can be 24 inches away but the deathspitter is only marginally better vs T6 and T7 and worse against everything else. Use the wings to avoid being shot top of 1 first and foremost, then putting it in melee is optional. On the other hand you can drop it somewhere, shoot the cannon, charge, and if it's still in combat next turn fall back and shoot the cannon again. Tyrants can have a lot of tactical options open to them depending on the loadout. I understand all that stuff. It's just that the wings are glued in where one of the weapon loadouts would go because I presume that's where you're supposed to attach the wings. It obviously only matters in a WYSIWYG environment, but I can't field the thing with the appropriate weapons visible on the model.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 08:22
|
|
|
Ah, I see what you mean. Yeah I've never seen one in person that didn't just have the wings mounted onto the back instead of taking up arms. Apparently some people replace the legs with weapons chutche2 fucked around with this message at 08:31 on Nov 17, 2017 |
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 08:27
|
|
|
Liquid Communism posted:I'm planning on signing up for the Gentlemen's 40k Tournament. From the description, it seems more the speed of what I want to play. Same here, most likely the Thursday one and the not so friendly on Friday.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 08:48
|
|
|
I've never seen anyone protest when I've declared the regular flying Hive Tyrant feet to be some form of melee weapon, like Monstrous Rending Claws or Scything Talons. This is probably just because of the model itself limiting your options when assembling it with wings, so 100% wysiwyg is impossible with the official flying sculpt. Only thing you might not get away with is Bone Swords and/or Lash Whip. But those don't seem to be that amazing currently, so no big deal. I haven't had the chance to test it out yet, but current early impressions seem to be that you either want full guns, or melee + gun setup. 4x Devourer is back in style with 24 shots. 4x Deathspitters halves the shots, but lets you hunt T7 things a bit more effectively. Or you can go 2x Devourers/Deathspitter and a Venom Cannon if you want more ranged oomph. Or alternatively go Rending Claws or Scything Talons, with one ranged weapon. 12 shots of Devourer, 6 shots of Deathspitter, or the 1d3 Heavy Venom Shots. You'd get flexibility to shoot at things, and also be a melee murder machine. Plays nicely with Kraken especially, since you can hop in and out of melee to shoot more, or assault new targets. One intriguing option is the Miasma Cannon relic, which is basically a superior Heavy Venom Cannon, that turns in to an auto-hitting flamer when in 8" range, and also wounds on 2+ no matter what. Personally I'm gonna run that + monstrous rending feet. Gets heavy duty firepower from range, can be used as a flamer up close, and rending claws will murder almost anything in melee. Combine that with the psyker stuff, and you have a very versatile unit. Attestant fucked around with this message at 08:57 on Nov 17, 2017 |
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 08:55
|
|
|
Some interesting debate over the wording of the charge phase in light of the new 'nid book is going on. At what point is a unit considered charging? Is it when you declare the charge (before overwatch and movement) or when you move the models? This is important for Jorgmandr's Cover Bonus falling off. At what point is a unit considered to have charged? Again, is it as soon as you declare it, or is it after they have moved into contact with the target? If the charge roll failed, is that unit still considered to have charged? If so, you can still choose it to fight, pile in and consolidate and end up engaging an enemy unit. In the case of Hormagaunts this is guaranteed since their pile in and consolidate moves are 6". If a unit fails its charge roll, it does not move. The charge phase rules state 'Once you’ve moved all the models in the charging unit, choose another eligible unit' - therefore since the unit that failed the charge cannot move, you have not 'moved all the models' and cannot choose another unit to charge.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 11:07
|
|
|
Zark the Damned posted:Some interesting debate over the wording of the charge phase in light of the new 'nid book is going on. It's when you declare the charge. Everything else (Overwatch, making the charge roll) depends on this, so it's the only logical point. quote:At what point is a unit considered to have charged? Again, is it as soon as you declare it, or is it after they have moved into contact with the target? If the charge roll failed, is that unit still considered to have charged? If so, you can still choose it to fight, pile in and consolidate and end up engaging an enemy unit. In the case of Hormagaunts this is guaranteed since their pile in and consolidate moves are 6". As above, when you declare the charge. Logically what follows is that yes, failed chargers can still pile in etc. but I suspect that when GW realises this there'll be an errata to say "units which successfully charged" or similar, so I'd play it that way for now. quote:If a unit fails its charge roll, it does not move. The charge phase rules state 'Once you’ve moved all the models in the charging unit, choose another eligible unit' - therefore since the unit that failed the charge cannot move, you have not 'moved all the models' and cannot choose another unit to charge. Much like wounded Celestine resurrecting a Geminae, the game simply breaks at this point unless you think GW really intended that a failed charge prevents all other charges. It's an interesting tactical idea but not, I suspect, the intention. Also a big change from the designers' commentary that was just released - you now apply modifiers before doubling Strength etc. so a powerfist on a S4 model with +1S hits at S10, not S9. This flies in the face of the normal mathematical order of operations and, like re-rolls, is a huge change to how modifiers were previously treated, so of course they've bunged it in there with barely a word said.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 11:42
|
|
|
On the tyrannical warrior leg front, I built a squad years back with scything talons facing backwards in the leg slots. Looked pretty good, like they were ready to leap or maybe Sonic-roll across the battlefield.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 12:23
|
|
|
Is there a good place to look at people's paint jobs? I want some inspiration for my Tyranids. Decided not to paint them in any established fleet colors, but make them my own dudes.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 12:53
|
|
|
a7m2 posted:Is there a good place to look at people's paint jobs? I want some inspiration for my Tyranids. Decided not to paint them in any established fleet colors, but make them my own dudes. I mostly see cool stuff on Instagram nowadays.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 12:59
|
|
|
Corrode posted:Also a big change from the designers' commentary that was just released - you now apply modifiers before doubling Strength etc. so a powerfist on a S4 model with +1S hits at S10, not S9. This flies in the face of the normal mathematical order of operations and, like re-rolls, is a huge change to how modifiers were previously treated, so of course they've bunged it in there with barely a word said. Not quite - the change is that you always apply the Weapon last. Other changes to strength still use regular order of operations. So a model with base S4, a rule adding +1 to S and a Power fist is hitting at (4 + 1) * 2 = S10 But a model with base S4, a rule doubling their strength, and a +1S melee weapon is hitting at (4 * 2) +1 = S9 The example from the commentary shows this pretty well: quote:For example, let’s imagine a model with a basic Strength characteristic of 3 is under the effects of two psychic powers: a friendly one that doubles their Strength characteristic, and an enemy one that subtracts 1 from their Strength characteristic. That model’s current Strength is therefore 5. If this model then fights with a weapon like a power fist, which has a Strength characteristic of ‘x2’, that attack will therefore be resolved at Strength 10.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 13:01
|
|
|
Oh, missed that - that makes a bit more sense.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 13:41
|
|
|
Strength 16 contemptors here I come. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 14:16
|
|
|
Wonder if that means a Behemoth Tyrant trait (+1 damage on a wound roll of 6) using toxin sacs (another +1 damage on a wound roll of 6) with the Reaper of Obliterax relic would be fun (double damage on a wound roll of 6).
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 14:17
|
|
|
Astraeus is up for pre-order. Rules here: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/PDF/Downloads/Astraeus-Super-heavy-Tank-Download-2017.pdf Main gun is insane, and the thing is actually pretty dangerous in melee...
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 14:22
|
|
|
TKIY posted:Astraeus is up for pre-order. Rules here: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/PDF/Downloads/Astraeus-Super-heavy-Tank-Download-2017.pdf 744 points if you take the lascannon option. That doesn't seem terribly great compared to a Shadowsword, although I don't have the points cost for the IG tank around.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 14:32
|
|
|
Beer4TheBeerGod posted:744 points if you take the lascannon option. That doesn't seem terribly great compared to a Shadowsword, although I don't have the points cost for the IG tank around. It costs about the same as a Falchion. Turn one, shooting a Stormraven at more than 24". Astraeus Main Gun: 10.65 damage Twin Lascannons: 1.99 damage Plasma Eradicator: 1.35 Plasma Eradicator: 1.35 Total: 15.34 Stormraven survives 39.68% of the time. Falchion Main gun: 20.36  Quad Lascannon: 3.90 Quad Lascannon: 3.90 Total: 28.17 Stormraven survives 12.77% of the time. What the gently caress! Falchion has 26 wounds vs 24 wounds. Astraeus has invulnerable save. Falchion has toughness 9 vs 8 on the Astraeus. The Astraeus also flies and is a little faster. Is killing 3 wound models a thing to worry about? Edit: fixed an error. dexefiend fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Nov 17, 2017 |
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 15:20
|
|
|
TKIY posted:Astraeus is up for pre-order. Rules here: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/PDF/Downloads/Astraeus-Super-heavy-Tank-Download-2017.pdf To bad it’s ugly
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 16:13
|
|
|
dexefiend posted:It costs about the same as a Falchion. Turn one, shooting a Stormraven at more than 24". For 544 points you can get a Shadowsword with 4 Lascannons and 10 Heavy Bolters, and it costs $165 with the extra sponsons. The aformentioned Falchion is $245, while an Astraeus will set you back $290. Also holy poo poo that Falchion looks gorgeous. Ropes4u posted:To bad it's ugly Honestly I don't mind the aesthetic, but personally I don't think the appearance offsets the poor performance. It's not pretty enough that I would want to purchase it for the sake of having an awesome model, and at least at first glance it doesn't look effective enough to justify fielding.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 16:32
|
|
|
Who is coming to Renegade? I'll be there lateish tonight and am bringing my garbage assassin list.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 16:38
|
|
|
LordAba posted:Anything. There are a lot of demos and stuff going on. Are you just going for 40k? If I take anything, it'll be 40k only because of space. I'm interested in some of the hobby seminars, but the sheer number of events is a little overwhelming.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 16:40
|
|
|
dexefiend posted:It costs about the same as a Falchion. Turn one, shooting a Stormraven at more than 24". Is it better with the las-rippers than the plasma eradicators?
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 17:23
|
|
|
Booley posted:Is it better with the las-rippers than the plasma eradicators? I think so. Ignoring the fact that the plasma eradicators have a chance to hurt the shooter they average the same number of shots, do one more damage, and IIRC the toughness and save of the Stormraven is a wash.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 17:26
|
|
|
Is it just me or does the new fw tank look a lot like the scorpion tank from halo?
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 17:31
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 14:56 |
|
|
Booley posted:Is it better with the las-rippers than the plasma eradicators? It surely is. However, Las-rippers only have a 24" range. I think a smart player would try to make sure the Stormraven would be out of range. 2 of them would mirror a quad lascannon in terms of damage. It wouldn't be a huge upgrade. dexefiend fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Nov 17, 2017 |
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2017 17:35
|
|