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Xelkelvos posted:Tom got a bit of a behavior adjustment if you remember the demoncism episode. The demon that did get demonsised was the one that made more prone to fly into a rage. Outside of that, Tom was a pretty decent guy from what we know of him. I don't think the removal of that demon changed him that much. As the head cultist guy said, there are thousands of demons inside him and the point I took from that is that he can't really change who he is, but now he's at least trying to be a better person. Pakled fucked around with this message at 07:14 on Nov 15, 2017 |
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Nov 15, 2017 07:09
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It'd e nice to see a Tom and Marco episode just to see how things are now between them. In what few interactions he's had with Marco this season, he been fairly civil, but they've been brief so it's not changed all that much after Tom got over Star the first time.
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Nov 15, 2017 07:21
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:He wasn't playing hard to get, he was legitimately trying to give Star some space. Ponyhead was wrong about his motives, the same way she's usually wrong about most things. I guess it just seems like he hasn't really changed that much. And I could see him totally being full of it and using that as an excuse to get closer to her? I don't know, her and him getting together in a handful of episodes just seems like too much, too soon and really inconsistent with her character to be back with this guy after he's been causing trouble most of the time, anger problems besides.
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Nov 15, 2017 07:44
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Nov 15, 2017 09:06
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Shitenshi posted:He still did that dumb play hard to get stuff at that dance, not mentioning how he still deliberately pushes Marco's buttons for no reason. He's kind of like a male Janna with obnoxiousness instead of her weirdness that make her cool. When has he pushed Marco's buttons? Star gave him an old hoodie but he wasn't trying to snub Marco by altering it and then he pleasantly offered to do the same to Marco's and gave him his marshmallow. He and Marco warmly greeted each other in a previous episode too. They're friends. Tom isn't just some dumb bad boy, he's a mostly nice guy with some issues hes trying to work on and he and Star legit like each other.
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Nov 15, 2017 10:09
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Today's episode seems like a breather compared to yesterday's plot stuff. Not that it doesn't get crazy at the Pigeon Kingdom or with Pony Head's sisters, who it turns out are as intense as she is in their own special ways. I now understand why King Pony Head would try to ship at least one of them off to reform school.
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Nov 15, 2017 15:54
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Shitenshi posted:I guess it just seems like he hasn't really changed that much. And I could see him totally being full of it and using that as an excuse to get closer to her? I don't know, her and him getting together in a handful of episodes just seems like too much, too soon and really inconsistent with her character to be back with this guy after he's been causing trouble most of the time, anger problems besides. I'd argue he's changed quite a bit, but since he hasn't actually shown up in that many episodes it's hard to tell at first glance. Keep in mind, in his first appearance way back in Blood Moon Ball he was controlling, easily frustrated, and attempted to deceive and manipulate Star into dancing with him under the Blood Moon so that their souls would be bound-making it pretty easy to see why she dumped him in the first place. But in his subsequent appearances in Mr. Candle Cares and Friendenemies, while he was still scheming of ways to get back together with Star, he gradually became more respectful of her wishes and boundaries-and as a result, shifted from manipulating Star to earnestly trying to improve himself, so that he could become someone that she would want to get back together with. And when Star sees that in Silver Bell Ball and Demonicism, it reminds her of why she was with him in the first place-when he's not letting his anger control him, he's a genuinely fun person to be around (As Marco found in Friendenemies), and shares many of Star's interests, like dancing and fighting. As to Star getting back together with him so quickly, I agree it's abrupt, but I think it does make sense given the circumstances-Star was still pretty messed up over Marco, who she thought she was never going to see again, and throwing herself into a relationship to avoid or subvert those thoughts and feelings is exactly what she was going to do with Oskar back in Starcrushed. At this point, she's having fun with Tom and enjoying the time she spends with him, but I wouldn't be surprised if it ends the same way Marco and Jackie's relationship did-that Tom realizes that he's not the real object of Star's desires, he never can be, and that to truly become a better person, he has to accept that and move on. Anyway, new episodes! Death Peck: Star urges the royal youth of Mewni to sign a petition calling for the equal treatment of Monsters Ponymonium: Star is thrilled when Ponyhead invites her to dinner with her sisters. everything about those loving pigeons killed me Acebuckeye13 fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Nov 15, 2017 |
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Nov 15, 2017 16:11
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Nephthys posted:When has he pushed Marco's buttons? Star gave him an old hoodie but he wasn't trying to snub Marco by altering it and then he pleasantly offered to do the same to Marco's and gave him his marshmallow. He and Marco warmly greeted each other in a previous episode too. They're friends. The hoodie thing seemed passive aggressive and didn't Marco breathe a sigh of relief when Kelly offered to get him away from Tom? They outright said they hated each other in Friendemies, not in an aggressive way, but more in a "I can tolerate you, but that's it," sort of way. Weird acquaintances maybe, but I never saw them as friends. Acebuckeye13 posted:(As Marco found in Friendenemies) Wasn't the whole point of that just a test with his counselor to see if he doesn't have anger issues anymore? But yeah, it's more that they're moving so fast with it. Marco and Jackie took awhile to officially become a thing. Even after saying she liked Oskar, they weren't all over each other.
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Nov 15, 2017 18:00
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Shitenshi posted:Wasn't the whole point of that just a test with his counselor to see if he doesn't have anger issues anymore? But yeah, it's more that they're moving so fast with it. Marco and Jackie took awhile to officially become a thing. Even after saying she liked Oskar, they weren't all over each other. It was a test sure, but until he found out Marco was having a legitimately good time (And, while they're still not really friends per say, they're certainly friendly enough). As to Star and Tom's relationship, I think the fact that it's moving too fast is sort of the point-Star absolutely should not have thrown herself into a new relationship while still getting over Marco, and Tom getting back together with Star after he'd just gotten over her isn't going to be healthy for him either. It doesn't help either that Star and Marco still haven't actually had an open and honest discussion about their feelings, and a reckoning for their relationship is likely coming sooner rather than later. Acebuckeye13 fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Nov 15, 2017 |
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Nov 15, 2017 18:22
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Shitenshi posted:The hoodie thing seemed passive aggressive and didn't Marco breathe a sigh of relief when Kelly offered to get him away from Tom? They outright said they hated each other in Friendemies, not in an aggressive way, but more in a "I can tolerate you, but that's it," sort of way. Weird acquaintances maybe, but I never saw them as friends. The hoodie thing was Star's idea. And now that I think about it, why did she think to dress her boyfriend up in Marco's iconic hoodie? For a beach party? It comes off as disrespectful since we see it from Marco's perspective, but what's been going on in Star's head?
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Nov 15, 2017 18:48
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I'm loving from the last pair of episodes that Star has united all the princes/princesses behind her cause. She got a solid foundation now - she's gone from pipe-dream to political party. GO STAR! DOWN WITH THE MATRIARCHY! 
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Nov 15, 2017 19:54
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Three episodes today, each more crazy than the last! Night Life: Star learns that Marco and Hekapoo have been dealing with rogue inter-dimensional portals Deep Dive: Star's sleep-portaling becomes a danger, and she decides to put a stop to it. Monster Bash: All the youth of Mewni gather at the ancient Monster Temple to celebrate a new era of Monsters and Mewmans living together in peace, until guests start disappearing. Some crazy fuckin' reveals in these! though I called Heinous and Eclipsa being connected months ago 
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Nov 16, 2017 13:16
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And here people thought Kelly would be Marco's rebound. Nope! Also, I love Miss Heinous' taste in music.
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Nov 16, 2017 15:29
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Favorite music genre - Classical - Pop - Metal - ???☾ - ???
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Nov 16, 2017 20:14
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Monster Bash: That party was drat close to going well. loving Mina. The new worst person in Mewni. Never liked her.
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Nov 16, 2017 23:04
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BioEnchanted posted:Monster Bash: That party was drat close to going well. loving Mina. The new worst person in Mewni. Never liked her. The preview also makes you think Heinous/Meteora is going to be the one kidnapping people since they lampshaded it a little in Princess Turdina, but nope! I'm really eager to see the big confrontation between Eclipsa and her daughter.
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Nov 16, 2017 23:12
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I'd be interested to see things escalate in an unpredictable direction, like have Eclipsa, Meteora and Star all fighting together against Moon and Mina.
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Nov 16, 2017 23:15
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BioEnchanted posted:Monster Bash: That party was drat close to going well. loving Mina. The new worst person in Mewni. Never liked her. Eh, the cracks were already showing-everyone was having a fun time, sure, but even if the cops hadn't gotten involved the bigotry was still noticeably bubbling beneath the surface. The party was well-intentioned, but it was never going to be anything more than a start-and it's going to be important for Star to realize that if she truly wants to change things, it's going to take a lot more work-potentially that of a lifetime.
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Nov 16, 2017 23:19
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Acebuckeye13 posted:Eh, the cracks were already showing-everyone was having a fun time, sure, but even if the cops hadn't gotten involved the bigotry was still noticeably bubbling beneath the surface. The party was well-intentioned, but it was never going to be anything more than a start-and it's going to be important for Star to realize that if she truly wants to change things, it's going to take a lot more work-potentially that of a lifetime. Of course, while it was only a start - it was a good start. It was overall a melancholy episode, but with a undercurrent of hope - that when the old guard finally piss off and stop trying to get in the way of the future of Mewni, the youth will have a good shot at making this happen. After all, everyone at the party was trying to make things work, despite the obvious awkwardness - it wasn't until tensions started to build that old arguments bubbled to the surface. I also like Spiderbite pointing out explicitly what is wrong with Mina - she is a genuine monster, by our definition. Not categorised by her appearence or class, like the capital-M Monsters on Mewni, but her behaviour.
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Nov 16, 2017 23:34
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BioEnchanted posted:Of course, while it was only a start - it was a good start. It was overall a melancholy episode, but with a undercurrent of hope - that when the old guard finally piss off and stop trying to get in the way of the future of Mewni, the youth will have a good shot at making this happen. After all, everyone at the party was trying to make things work, despite the obvious awkwardness - it wasn't until tensions started to build that old arguments bubbled to the surface. I also like Spiderbite pointing out explicitly what is wrong with Mina - she is a genuine monster, She's possibly also a Monster in the Mewni sense, too, or at least half of one. It would explain her beast transformation, for one thing, and if she's what happens when Mewmans and Monsters mingle then it would go a long way to explaining why everyone got scared shitless when Eclipsa, powerful even by royal Butterfly standards, had a kid with what sure looks like a powerful Monster.
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Nov 16, 2017 23:52
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Nah. I'd wager that's just Mina being Mina and why she was considered such a great warrior way back when. One of the big points is that the line between Monsters and Mewmans seem largely arbitrary and just because one looks monstrous, doesn't mean that they're a Monster. We've already seen a little what a half- Monster/half-Mewman looks like in Meteora who's been hiding it.
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Nov 17, 2017 00:08
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Xelkelvos posted:Nah. I'd wager that's just Mina being Mina and why she was considered such a great warrior way back when. One of the big points is that the line between Monsters and Mewmans seem largely arbitrary and just because one looks monstrous, doesn't mean that they're a Monster. We've already seen a little what a half- Monster/half-Mewman looks like in Meteora who's been hiding it. I dunno, I can still see the power thing as arbitrary considering the Butterflys are allies with the literal Lords of the Underworld, a bunch of pigeons that killed their way to a kingdom, and Pony Heads that according to the guidebook can control the weather. Plus while power isn't inherently good or evil, it's something you wouldn't want a people you're oppressing to get. I'm just thinking that Mina has pointed ears like Meteora when she's in hulk mode, and she can fly and use magic directly which we haven't seen anyone human/Mewman-looking do unless they have cheek marks. She may not be half-Monster specifically, but it would explain some things and I doubt she's fully Mewman in any event.
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Nov 17, 2017 00:57
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It's pretty cool that they're going with this theme of young people being the force for change in Mewni, that they have to take action to make the obstinate older generations listen. Just like real life :V
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Nov 17, 2017 01:01
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Bobbin Threadbare posted:I dunno, I can still see the power thing as arbitrary considering the Butterflys are allies with the literal Lords of the Underworld, a bunch of pigeons that killed their way to a kingdom, and Pony Heads that according to the guidebook can control the weather. Plus while power isn't inherently good or evil, it's something you wouldn't want a people you're oppressing to get. I'm just thinking that Mina has pointed ears like Meteora when she's in hulk mode, and she can fly and use magic directly which we haven't seen anyone human/Mewman-looking do unless they have cheek marks. She may not be half-Monster specifically, but it would explain some things and I doubt she's fully Mewman in any event. Yeah, that might be part of why she's so anti-monster, although what happened the last time peace with monsters came up also probably has something to do with it.
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Nov 17, 2017 01:23
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Have to wonder if Eclipsa knows. My hunch is...not yet. It would be pretty logical for her to assume that Meteora died of old age hundreds of years ago. Depending on how old Meteora was when she got put on crystal, there could be a huge head of vengeance roiling behind those satisfied smiles.
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Nov 17, 2017 01:40
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maltesh posted:Have to wonder if Eclipsa knows. My hunch is...not yet. It would be pretty logical for her to assume that Meteora died of old age hundreds of years ago. Depending on how old Meteora was when she got put on crystal, there could be a huge head of vengeance roiling behind those satisfied smiles. If Eclipsa beats the rap, she has a solid claim to the throne, and could probably get the support of the monsters for a coup. Getting Star on her side would be a huge win.
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Nov 17, 2017 03:26
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Xelkelvos posted:Favorite music genre I passed over this earlier, but I refused to be convinced that Eclipsa isn't a jazz fan. On a related note:  And avatar-sized: 
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Nov 17, 2017 03:29
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My guess is that Meteora is gonna be the season villain. We know she's some crazy magical/monster hybrid so she's got all the magical power of Star/Moon/the other Butterflys mixed with whatever powers her monster DNA (probably) holds, so maybe she did some weird Antichrist poo poo and razed the kingdom when she was younger, but Eclipsa took the heat for her daughter and got put on ice for it, maybe after cutting a deal with the High Commission to give Meteora a reduced sentence... like giving her a memory rewrite so she could just go live a life in solitude instead of face imprisonment or execution. Then again, based on Rhombulus not knowing the nursery's purpose, and the total lack of Meteora in the family history (I mean even Eclipsa gets a painting on the wall to show she was evil...), maybe someone wrote over the whole of Mewni's memory to totally give her a new identity (of course it could be another case of Rhombulus being stupid). Regardless, Eclipsa knew that Meteora was safe, so that's why she was so chill with being imprisoned in a crystal. Of course the big question is, when Meteora inevitably comes for the kingdom, is Eclipsa going to turn heel, or is she gonna try to talk her daughter down from going nuts? Also no theorycrafting, but I got a huge laugh from the stupid sight gag of Mina all hulked out jumping out the window then floating away slowly on her pigtail-copter. Are we still doing spoiler tags even after the episode aired? I mean I guess I'll keep the trend going. TwoPair fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Nov 17, 2017 |
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Nov 17, 2017 04:29
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Either way, even if she isn't a proper capital V Villain, Mina needs to be put on crystal - no asylum could hold her with how powerful she is and she's clearly schizophrenic (she hears voices speaking to her from her rock, so the actual definition of audio-visual hallucinations, not the Hollywood one), and no matter how well Star does, Mina is going to end up hurting someone someday - probably even someone Mewni cares about. Maybe that's the whole point of this arc even, everyone's so focused on judging Eclipsa and Meteora for what they are that they are missing the real threat.
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Nov 17, 2017 06:47
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I figured Mina was a relative of the Butterfly family, or perhaps the vaguely insectoid Hulk-out is something that any Mewman can do given training and practice, the magically inclined are just better at it. Speaking of, I'm surprised Star didn't enter her golden form to fight her. Possibly still getting used to that or trying to keep it a secret. But I could be wrong either way. But in any case, Mina's a great villain now for a show that's made sure to put some complexity to theirs; she's legitimately lost her mind, but kept all of her power, and can't process reality anymore. She's just running on what she knows, violence and bigotry. Basically a Fox News grandma who's also a likely PTSD-suffering war veteran and has superpowers. And River's early possibly joking comment about Star potentially being locked away and replaced if she can't control her power might have a lot of implications for both Mina and Meteora- and maybe Eclipsa too, for that matter. When royalty comes with massive magical power, and no guarantee of mental stability, you have to go to some pretty drastic measures when the monarch goes rogue... which is probably why the Magic High Commission exists.
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Nov 17, 2017 09:00
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It seems very much the case that Mina is not exactly on good terms with Mewni law enforcement, up to and possibly including the High Commission, at this point for any number of reasons and I hope we'll learn about her fall from grace in some later confrontation. It likely has to do with Moon and her rise to power and the fallout after beating Toffee the first time.
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Nov 17, 2017 09:08
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It's probably not the first time Mina has caused a ton of trouble for Mewni's authorities. But guessing they decided the best way to deal with her was to cast her out and ignore her; she's a pitiful character, really, a clearly traumatised and mentally ill war veteran who has no family or friends to care for her, left homeless to survive on her own as a danger to herself and others. And on the end of Monster Bash, the monster kids accept Star's apology and admit that they're used to the authorities persecuting them unfairly- there's a glimmer of hope that things can change. Despite the tensions, the people from both sides manage to get along, and even forge some new friendships; Spider Bite Princess likely won't forget how she got her complexion cleared up, and Star made it clear she's willing to protect monsters and Mewmans equally and stand up for them. Also, Tom's showing a bit that he's a lot like Star in some ways, early-season Star especially; disinterested in 'politics' despite, as Star says, being a prince who can't avoid them, and mostly just wants to enjoy himself. Which is an improvement over seeking revenge for petty slights and going on rampages when he doesn't get what he wants, but still. There seems to be a going theme of the mistakes and sins of the past coming back to haunt future generations, and the worst, most ingrained problems being ones that have been left to fester for centuries. And conversely, how changing things for the better is a long, hard process, but it's never too early to start because the results might take a while, but it still helps.
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Nov 17, 2017 09:23
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Seriously, between Rhombulus deciding to freeze Eclipsa before she "could do anything," keeping secrets from Star even after she saved the kingdom, and the gung-ho attitude on hurtng monsters, I seriously hope the higher-ups in Mewni burn for all eternity.
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Nov 17, 2017 10:05
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https://twitter.com/KGishFish/status/931347720194764800
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Nov 17, 2017 14:18
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The real mystery for the season is how did Rhombulus lose a nipple? ASK QUESTIONS PEOPLE. VVV: oh really? I guess I totally forgot that. TwoPair fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Nov 17, 2017 |
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Nov 17, 2017 15:41
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He gave it to Star in "Crystal Clear".
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Nov 17, 2017 16:06
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Next-day unspoilered speculation time. The theory I heard that makes the most sense is that Meteora was still a toddler when the Magic High Commission came for her mother. But Eclipsa saw the end coming, so she smuggled her daughter to St. Olga's and placed her in the care of Gemini and the headmistress of the time, making them swear not to tell her daughter about her heritage. This would help explain why Gemini seemed a bit more nervous than astonished when Meteora discovered her baby room and why all the toys are appropriate for a very young child. The current Queen Butterfly then came across the baby room and set a guard to watch the door in case Meteora should return. Alternately, the queen currently in charge of the MHC (Eclipsa's sister or firstborn daughter) packed Meteora off without telling the Commission members, because either way you think they'd have mentioned "oh, and she had a Monster baby" on her list of crimes if marrying a Monster was bad enough. And apparently that queen took her secret to her grave since Moon has been having a lot of trouble building her case against Eclipsa.
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Nov 17, 2017 16:36
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Bobbin Threadbare posted:Next-day unspoilered speculation time. Like adding "Had a child with her husband" would actually affect her case in any way, Star would just dismiss that the same way she dismissed Eclipsa's elopement. Remember, the difficulty Moon is having is convincing Star. No one else matters to her because they are already in lockstep with her.
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Nov 17, 2017 18:31
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BioEnchanted posted:Like adding "Had a child with her husband" would actually affect her case in any way, Star would just dismiss that the same way she dismissed Eclipsa's elopement. Remember, the difficulty Moon is having is convincing Star. No one else matters to her because they are already in lockstep with her. "Had a child with her Monster husband." The difference in statements, for Mewni at least, is pretty important. And I think that's what this season is getting at. Star has seen how perfectly fine it is for mixed-race relationships to occur, from her time on Earth and I think that's a major thing informing her disgust of the Mewni status quo.
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Nov 17, 2017 21:29
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Again though, while that word means everything to Mewni as a whole, it would fail to convince Star. As far as Moon cares Mewni is already behind her, she wants Star on board too though, otherwise she probably would have crystalled Eclipsa after Star left the room - this trial isn't about Mewni, and it isn't about Eclipsa, it's about an ideological war that is threatening to spark with Moon and the Magical High Council on one side, and Star, Marco and the heirs of Mewni on the other. If Star wanted to be cheeky about it she could respond "Well Mewni's been loving monsters for thousands of years, how is what Eclipsa did any different?"
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Nov 17, 2017 21:37
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