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Razorwired posted:Its bullshit design because show me the list of encounters you 100% cant do without a pure Martial character. The Helmed Horror and Rakshasa are the closest that I can think of on the spot.
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Nov 17, 2017 19:03
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MonsterEnvy posted:Somthing like the Sunless Citadel or Forge of Fury could work. But they might be a bit too long. He could probably make a decent adventure out of just the first floor of Sunless Citadel if he tweaks their motivation for going in there. Then, if another session is wanted the rabbit hole is a bit deeper and ready to go.
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Nov 17, 2017 19:04
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Coup de grace'ing players is bad form because outside of a particularly determined foe, it's more important to keep fighting the combatants that are still up and about.
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Nov 17, 2017 19:07
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gradenko_2000 posted:Coup de grace'ing players is bad form because outside of a particularly determined foe, it's more important to keep fighting the combatants that are still up and about. See: A Death Knight who really hates a Paladin, an enemy who got away coming back after someone who scarred them in an old fight, etc.
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Nov 17, 2017 19:12
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gradenko_2000 posted:Coup de grace'ing players is bad form because outside of a particularly determined foe, it's more important to keep fighting the combatants that are still up and about. Well, it makes sense if before their next turn the bard or cleric will Healing Word the Big Scary Fighter back up so they can keep outputting damage, but the reason you shouldn't do it as a DM is the same reason why you pretend 'frontliners' are a thing instead of just walking around them to go hit the relatively more squishy characters: because the alternative is not fun. See also hitting PCs with stunning/paralyzing effects.
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Nov 17, 2017 19:22
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:His point is introducing a hostile monster that the party can't possibly defeat is dumb and no, the DM should not have a monster appear that guarantees a party wipe with no wizard. That's just the adapting world paradox, though. It becomes just as silly if the players realize that they should allow the wizard to run out of spells, because that way all monsters that would require magic to defeat mysteriously disappear. However, I do agree with the lack of monsters in the MM that target wizards as opposed to those that target fighters..
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Nov 17, 2017 20:15
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Raar_Im_A_Dinosaur posted:What do you guys think of DMs who consistently coup de grace players because "that's what the enemy would do"? I don't think players should die for playing a game even if it is 5e
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Nov 17, 2017 20:15
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Coup de grace's are for when you're fighting the Big Bad, the person who has a legit reason to see you flat out dead. And that's why players always make sure everyone has healing potions/Revify and to pre-buff Death Ward. Goblins and black oozes? Nope. Death Knights? Maybe. Death Knight who's the main bad guy of your campaign and is finally being confronted after months of gameplay? Yep.
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Nov 17, 2017 20:30
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hyphz posted:I'm not sure what you mean here. Do you mean there should be no support for magic at all in the game? Or just that it shouldn't support that structure? Because if an enemy has the capability to attack that way, not having them do so because the players couldn't handle it will just look like an obvious fudge. I am saying that you cannot make challenges or monsters that require a wizard, and then take a step back and claim those monsters are the reason you have to make wizards all powerful. It's circular reasoning. Like... hyphz posted:That's just the adapting world paradox, though. It becomes just as silly if the players realize that they should allow the wizard to run out of spells, because that way all monsters that would require magic to defeat mysteriously disappear. Why is this, specifically, a thing? It doesn't have to be. The game isn't real. If monsters require magic, that's because the developers put in monsters that require magic, and for no other reason. So change that.
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Nov 17, 2017 21:40
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I will posit that if you have a Divine or otherwise caster that can immediately bring someone back from death, then a coup de grace is fine in the context of a fight against a worthy opponent. Just straight up killing someone in a random fight (unless they were doing really dumb things and had plenty of warning I guess) is lovely.
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Nov 17, 2017 21:48
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So i just found out that divine smite dice rolls get doubled as well on a crit. Is a paladin's gimmick in fights to fish for crits then unload a ridiculous amount of damage when you get one? If so how can i get more crits? The chance to crit is close to linear with attack rolls you make, so Vow of Enmity to get advantage and extra attack at level 5 both double the crit chance. After that polearm mastery gets you a bonus attack which would increase the chance by 50%. I guess getting 3 levels in fight for champion would double it again but at the cost of missing out on spell slots and stuff. All that together would get the chance to crit on your turn to 47%. Is there anything else you can do to increase this further?
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Nov 17, 2017 22:09
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Splash sorc for quickend hold
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Nov 17, 2017 22:12
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CJ posted:So i just found out that divine smite dice rolls get doubled as well on a crit. Is a paladin's gimmick in fights to fish for crits then unload a ridiculous amount of damage when you get one? If so how can i get more crits? Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Nov 17, 2017 |
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Nov 17, 2017 22:13
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CJ posted:So i just found out that divine smite dice rolls get doubled as well on a crit. Is a paladin's gimmick in fights to fish for crits then unload a ridiculous amount of damage when you get one? If so how can i get more crits? The chance to crit is close to linear with attack rolls you make, so Vow of Enmity to get advantage and extra attack at level 5 both double the crit chance. After that polearm mastery gets you a bonus attack which would increase the chance by 50%. I guess getting 3 levels in fight for champion would double it again but at the cost of missing out on spell slots and stuff. All that together would get the chance to crit on your turn to 47%. Is there anything else you can do to increase this further? Beyond doing what you can to get advantage when possible and trying to max your number of attacks? Don't think so. The melee game's not all that deep.
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Nov 17, 2017 22:15
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CJ posted:So i just found out that divine smite dice rolls get doubled as well on a crit. Is a paladin's gimmick in fights to fish for crits then unload a ridiculous amount of damage when you get one? If so how can i get more crits? The chance to crit is close to linear with attack rolls you make, so Vow of Enmity to get advantage and extra attack at level 5 both double the crit chance. After that polearm mastery gets you a bonus attack which would increase the chance by 50%. I guess getting 3 levels in fight for champion would double it again but at the cost of missing out on spell slots and stuff. All that together would get the chance to crit on your turn to 47%. Is there anything else you can do to increase this further? I think you're basically hitting it other than what the guy said about Hold, i.e. taking a caster dip to pick up spells that let you guarantee crits by incapacitating enemies, though if you're doing that we're back to "you may as well just be a loving mage" because you don't have to smite crit to kill something once you land a hold There's a couple ways to increase the burst damage further when you do crit, like a Sharpness/Vorpal sword and having Great Weapon Mastery (which you want to get first basically on a burst build/any damage build on a class that can use 2hers)
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Nov 17, 2017 22:17
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I dodged the caster dip by asking my party Druid to hook it up with a Hold or Fairy Fire Casts in exchange for the occasional gold assist or heal. Luckily my casters are cool about it. It doesnt work as much in AL.
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Nov 17, 2017 23:04
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Re: Coup de Grace from DMs, thanks for reassuring me that I was not being a whiny baby when the DM wrecked my poo poo so mercilessly. He was power tripping pretty hard. He said that if we did not phrase our damage on the exact way he requested, he would make assumptions and not ask questions and if that ended up with lower damage from player attacks, that was on us. We had to say how much damage, what type and on what enemy, in that order. We could not ask what AC was because he had it written down on the mat, and be would ignore anyone who asked. He declared that anyone who didn't come correct with their class abilities from lack of familiarity with their character would get no mercy. He would pull no punches and if we did not pay attention, we would die. By the way, all of this would actually be fine. I'd scoff a bit at his forced edginess, but I can appreciate a challenge. And I knew my class well. But that doesn't matter if the DM says a Remorrhaz beat my 30 perception and then we get ambushed and I'm one shotted in the surprise round. This wasn't challenging, it was literally impossible to fight back. In retrospect, I'm starting to realize why that was the only table at the store with four players instead of the usual 7 like every other table. At the end of the game, he said that if I wanted, I could not deduct the cost of rez, he just killed players because it was the only way to make the game challenging. I guess he "forgot" that death curse was active... And so I did too. Raar_Im_A_Dinosaur fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Nov 17, 2017 |
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Nov 17, 2017 23:16
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Raar_Im_A_Dinosaur posted:Re: Coup de Grace from DMs, thanks for reassuring me that I was not being a whiny baby when the DM wrecked my poo poo so mercilessly. He was power tripping pretty hard. He said that if we did not phrase our damage on the exact way he requested, he would make assumptions and not ask questions and if that ended up with lower damage from player attacks, that was on us. We had to say how much damage, what type and on what enemy, in that order. We could not ask what AC was because he had it written down on the mat, and be would ignore anyone who asked. This DM sounds like he is playing to "win", not to run a good game.
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Nov 17, 2017 23:18
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I will also guess on damage type if I'm not sure, but it'll be a good faith best guess. It's just not worth slowing things down to ask for stuff that usually doesn't matter.
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Nov 17, 2017 23:27
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Raar_Im_A_Dinosaur posted:Re: Coup de Grace from DMs, thanks for reassuring me that I was not being a whiny baby when the DM wrecked my poo poo so mercilessly. He was power tripping pretty hard. He said that if we did not phrase our damage on the exact way he requested, he would make assumptions and not ask questions and if that ended up with lower damage from player attacks, that was on us. We had to say how much damage, what type and on what enemy, in that order. We could not ask what AC was because he had it written down on the mat, and be would ignore anyone who asked. You've got a viking hat DM.  Seriously, that guy's either really new, or he's learned all the wrong lessons about running a game.
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Nov 17, 2017 23:33
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"I am a tough but fair GM. You must know the rules and have perfect knowledge of your class. In my game the dice fall where they may. I will not answer your stupid questions."Raar_Im_A_Dinosaur posted:surprise round 
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Nov 17, 2017 23:34
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AlphaDog posted:Beyond doing what you can to get advantage when possible and trying to max your number of attacks? Don't think so. The melee game's not all that deep. I thought of one. You could go Level 2 Divination Wizard and then cross your fingers for a Portent 20. The cool thing about that is you know in advance that you will crit so you can throw one of the bonus action smite spells in there first which would also get doubled. Almost definitely not worth it for the 1/10 chance of getting to clown something each day though.
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Nov 17, 2017 23:36
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ProfessorCirno posted:I am saying that you cannot make challenges or monsters that require a wizard, and then take a step back and claim those monsters are the reason you have to make wizards all powerful. It's circular reasoning. Sorry, I'm thinking we're at cross purposes. I'm not arguing that magic-requiring monsters existing means that wizards must be powerful. I'm pointing out that the existence of magic-requiring monsters gives the lie to the idea that "but the wizard can only do this X times per day" is realistically a balancing factor, because if there might be a magic-requiring monsters around the next corner, the entire party must run to the wizard's schedule.
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Nov 17, 2017 23:52
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Nephzinho posted:This DM sounds like he is playing to "win", not to run a good game. Playing to win only works if the rules are tightly balanced and clearly written, like in a competitive game such as MtG. It's a pity that combination doesn't exist in RPG form.
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Nov 17, 2017 23:57
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I mean, MtG is a game about dueling wizards with a gargantuan amount of lore. You're effectively telling a story with every game you play, and there's nothing that stops two or more players who mutually agree on it from building a narrative - or even an ongoing world arc - around their games.
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Nov 18, 2017 00:11
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hyphz posted:Sorry, I'm thinking we're at cross purposes. I'm not arguing that magic-requiring monsters existing means that wizards must be powerful. I'm pointing out that the existence of magic-requiring monsters gives the lie to the idea that "but the wizard can only do this X times per day" is realistically a balancing factor, because if there might be a magic-requiring monsters around the next corner, the entire party must run to the wizard's schedule.
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Nov 18, 2017 00:13
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Make magic a useful tool instead of a hard requirement for some encounters and also if you literally have players gaming the system to go "Well he goes easier on us if the wizard is out of spells so we should have the wizard constantly out of spells" that's a 'Talk to them out of character because they're being assholes' problem, not a verisimilitude issue.
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Nov 18, 2017 00:35
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But if the party refuses to equip themselves and doesn't go outside and just sits in the basement not taking any actions then monsters that require taking any actions to defeat would all automatically disappear from the world and the game would be automatically won I am very definitely putting this forward in good faith as a real thing that real people would do in D&D.
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Nov 18, 2017 00:45
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AlphaDog posted:But if the party refuses to equip themselves and doesn't go outside and just sits in the basement not taking any actions then monsters that require taking any actions to defeat would all automatically disappear from the world and the game would be automatically won I am very definitely putting this forward in good faith as a real thing that real people would do in D&D. The only winning move is not to play martial classes.
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Nov 18, 2017 01:56
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The player, smirking, stated firmly that their character only fights via playing tic-tac-toe, and thus should only encounter monsters that can be defeated via playing tic-tac-toe. "I have maxed out my initiative modifier to the point where I will always go first", they smugly mentioned. The DM, bowing his head, admitted defeat. No Dungeons & Dragons would be played this day.
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Nov 18, 2017 02:08
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hyphz posted:Sorry, I'm thinking we're at cross purposes. I'm not arguing that magic-requiring monsters existing means that wizards must be powerful. I'm pointing out that the existence of magic-requiring monsters gives the lie to the idea that "but the wizard can only do this X times per day" is realistically a balancing factor, because if there might be a magic-requiring monsters around the next corner, the entire party must run to the wizard's schedule. The only reason there are monsters and environmental obstacles that require magic to be disarmed/bypassed/surmounted in the first place is because most DMs (indeed most written adventures) will realize that monsters and environments that are purely terrestrial are going to get steamrollered by magic-users in about five minutes.
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Nov 18, 2017 02:52
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Kaysette posted:The only winning move is not to play D&D. FTFY
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Nov 18, 2017 03:44
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AlphaDog posted:The player, smirking, stated firmly that their character only fights via playing tic-tac-toe, and thus should only encounter monsters that can be defeated via playing tic-tac-toe. "I have maxed out my initiative modifier to the point where I will always go first", they smugly mentioned.
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Nov 18, 2017 04:57
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:a rogue(in 5e terms, a bard) 
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Nov 18, 2017 05:25
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https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/931737703648870400
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Nov 18, 2017 05:28
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 Apparently he thinks it fits thematically into the Underdark Campaign book, where everyone starts in jail.
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Nov 18, 2017 05:30
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:okay got a new character for my characters-to-play queue - a rogue(in 5e terms, a bard) who got his start as a tic-tac-toe hustler You're alright jeffrey. Your're alright.
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Nov 18, 2017 05:33
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Admiral Joeslop posted:
What in the actual gently caress.
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Nov 18, 2017 05:33
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The Arcane Archer in Xanathar's doesn't get free Magic Arrows until level 7. You get class abilities starting at level 3 that require magical arrows. What the gently caress?
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Nov 18, 2017 05:45
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Admiral Joeslop posted:The Arcane Archer in Xanathar's doesn't get free Magic Arrows until level 7. You get class abilities starting at level 3 that require magical arrows. What the gently caress? Don’t forget magical items should be a special occasion and not be expected or demanded in order to preserve their mystery.
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Nov 18, 2017 05:48
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