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Jimmy Hats posted:You forgot to mention full guard which is uh kinda important Right, full guard. Massive tp cost and a cool down, can be replicated with gunmount for just 2 tp. It's a weaker version of mana guard combined with line guard that works for the entire party. Handy if the enemy has both elemental and physical attacks. It's tp cost and cool down is an issue, so it's not all that great to use in normal battles, but don't let that stop you. If an enemy has large numbers, pack both physical and elemental attacks, time to use it. You can't explore if you're dead.
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Nov 17, 2017 04:39
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And that's the third stratum down.  Chain Fencer is pretty drat great. Pity that more enemies aren't weak to ailments, cause Chain All -> Chain Killer could be devastating.
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Nov 17, 2017 04:50
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Pollyanna posted:And that's the third stratum down. It also works with binds.
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Nov 17, 2017 04:53
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I like the turrets because they counter attack, but yeah. I better start beefing up the ol' dragoon to get face punched.
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Nov 17, 2017 05:28
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Dr. Fetus posted:It also works with binds. should i be focusing more on chain killer or the elemental chains for my chain fencer? i was plotting out endgame builds as i was distributing my SP last night and i have like a 15 point deficit from what i want versus what i can actually have 
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Nov 17, 2017 05:32
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The White Dragon posted:should i be focusing more on chain killer or the elemental chains for my chain fencer? i was plotting out endgame builds as i was distributing my SP last night and i have like a 15 point deficit from what i want versus what i can actually have It honestly depends on your party. If you have easy access to ailments and binds (for the record, Chain Blast does not count because it is a Union skill, and those have absolute priority), it's probably one of the most powerful skills in the entire game. If you don't have easy access to disables, bu do have lots of sources of Stab and elemental damage, then the elemental chains are what you're gonna have to work with. If you don't have access to either of those, your Fencer isn't gonna be doing much unless they have a dodgetank build.
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Nov 17, 2017 05:36
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or, in short, five fencers are going to have to use the elemental ones
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Nov 17, 2017 06:16
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theshim posted:or, in short, five fencers are going to have to use the elemental ones Unless you get REALLY lucky with Optic Thrust.
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Nov 17, 2017 06:21
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ZZT the Fifth posted:Unless you get REALLY lucky with Optic Thrust.
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Nov 17, 2017 06:23
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Dr. Fetus posted:It honestly depends on your party. If you have easy access to ailments and binds (for the record, Chain Blast does not count because it is a Union skill, and those have absolute priority), it's probably one of the most powerful skills in the entire game. If you don't have easy access to disables, bu do have lots of sources of Stab and elemental damage, then the elemental chains are what you're gonna have to work with. on any given turn, i have three characters who can either do elemental + pierce damage, or inflict binds + statuses (four if you count harbinger + smoke botanist but i don't like to double up with them because ailments overwrite each other in tiers). so it's a fairly versatile party for both basically the dream is to build around the idea of maximizing my chains and then dropping resonance on the next turn, that sounds like the kind of dumb poo poo i like
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Nov 17, 2017 06:37
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Something I never thought to check- do Rover skills that give you pets commands prevent them from using their normal abilities, like the dogs heal or the hawk's attack? What about the "makes them attack the enemy" thing from Target Arrow?
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Nov 17, 2017 06:40
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The White Dragon posted:on any given turn, i have three characters who can either do elemental + pierce damage, or inflict binds + statuses (four if you count harbinger + smoke botanist but i don't like to double up with them because ailments overwrite each other in tiers). so it's a fairly versatile party for both Ailments overriding each other will actually let you get even more Chain Killer procs. So that's something to keep in mind. Just remember that there's a hierarchy. It's visible in the monster lookups, the ailments on the left will override the ailments to the right. From what it sounds like, Chain Killer is a much better skill to make use of there. Now granted Chain Killer is purely a physical attack, so against physically resistant stuff (though there aren't too many big enemies like that), you'll want the elemental chains instead.
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Nov 17, 2017 06:43
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ok, maybe i'll cap the elemental skills at 5 or 6 then. i might take ice to 10 since--you can double chase frigid slash, right?Handgun Phonics posted:Something I never thought to check- do Rover skills that give you pets commands prevent them from using their normal abilities, like the dogs heal or the hawk's attack? What about the "makes them attack the enemy" thing from Target Arrow? target arrow dog will skip the heal and attack instead. but, i think the dog still heals on turns i use the bind attacks.
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Nov 17, 2017 06:45
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Chains will only chase once per action, not once per hit, I'm afraid.
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Nov 17, 2017 06:50
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The White Dragon posted:ok, maybe i'll cap the elemental skills at 5 or 6 then. i might take ice to 10 since--you can double chase frigid slash, right? Dogs and birds can only do one thing a turn without multiple Rovers in play. Using a dog as an example, if not told to do absolutely anything, it will lick the party member that had the lowest HP at the start of the turn. Target Arrow replaces that behavior with "attack this fuckin' guy". If the Rover uses a command skill, like Foot Pierce, Hunting Shot, Aid Command etc., the Hound will do that instead of either the Target Arrow-dictated attack or the lick. Now, if you have multiple Rovers using skills, word on the street is the Hound will act once for each command it receives (up to 5 if you're doing a single class challenge), but I've not personally used more than one in a party yet.
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Nov 17, 2017 06:57
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theshim posted:Optic Thrust would most likely be fine but then you only get one chain turn, since there's no other real way for them to inflict things. Meanwhile, they all do stab damage You can always go black mist + binding items
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Nov 17, 2017 07:29
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theshim posted:Gunmount does not have priority but it appears to reapply the shield skill as if it did, even though the attack itself won't happen until the Dragoon's turn comes up. Yes - and you can actually get the Guard skill for free on the second turn if you finish the fight fast enough. Gun Mount only costs TP when the Dragoon shoots but the replication is in effect before that. Handgun Phonics posted:Something I never thought to check- do Rover skills that give you pets commands prevent them from using their normal abilities, like the dogs heal or the hawk's attack? What about the "makes them attack the enemy" thing from Target Arrow? A lot of things interrupt the "basic attack" of the pets. A dog will even stop its auto lick (or auto attack if Target Arrow is in effect) if you use Foot Pierce without any leg binds inflicted. So just standing ready in case they need to act will already stop their idle AI.
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Nov 17, 2017 08:19
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A Target Arrow attack is just a normal auto-attack, it's mostly notable for changing the dog's auto-heal into an auto-attack. Of course it's also a decent defense debuff. Using any skill that involves commanding a pet at all will use up that pet's turn. This is actually a really important thing to keep in mind for getting the most value out of your turns. Often you're better off auto-attacking than wasting TP on the basic dog heal skill, since it's going to heal anyway. This also makes Drop Shot far more useful than you might think, since it's the only hound spec skill that doesn't waste the dog's action. Clarste fucked around with this message at 08:46 on Nov 17, 2017 |
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Nov 17, 2017 08:44
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I keep telling y'all that the game has a pair of union skills that make your attacks apply binds/ailments and these make chain killer go off like crazy!
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Nov 17, 2017 14:29
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Jimmy Hats posted:I keep telling y'all that the game has a pair of union skills that make your attacks apply binds/ailments and these make chain killer go off like crazy! Sounds about as feasible as brouni harbingers. Not that the union skills are bad, but far superior options exist. Also, I cleared 29F finally. Seeing so many prosperous gels in one place almost made me want to cry. Then I couldn't figure out the way forward and had to kill two of them (one at a time, using a party specifically designed to kill gels), only to find out that led to a chest. Well it was a gold ingot but still. The actual way forward was easier to get to. I also now have a team that can counter the enemies of the 6th stratum. I'll still wipe to ambushes but eh. What can you do.
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Nov 17, 2017 15:35
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Given that I have a full party of one of each class and have kept them roughly in parity thanks to DLC, it's pretty awesome that I can choose to go elemental or bind/ailment whenever I feel like. Though I worry that splitting my SP between both of them makes me ultimately weaker.
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Nov 17, 2017 16:39
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Pollyanna posted:Given that I have a full party of one of each class and have kept them roughly in parity thanks to DLC, it's pretty awesome that I can choose to go elemental or bind/ailment whenever I feel like. I went for both and the chain guy is pretty strong. Haven't maxed out my passives yet, but I like my damage output. A lot.
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Nov 17, 2017 16:52
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Pollyanna posted:And that's the third stratum down. Chain Killer is absolutely devastating, and having a good variety of binds and ailments at your disposal makes it pretty possible to trigger on any enemy, especially if your Harbinger has Wilting Miasma and you have Black Mist queued up for FOEs/bosses. For random battles, I actually prefer to skip Chain All. I go with Chain Killer right off the bat and have my Pugilist use Clinch on the Chain Killer target. Chain Killer does so much damage, especially once you level it up a lot, that it's probably going to kill its target, and then Chain Burst can trigger and hurt other enemies. Whatever that doesn't kill, my Warlock mops up. For boss fights, take a couple setup rounds first. Put Wilting Miasma down and use Overexertion on your Chain Fencer, then on your big burst turn, use Black Mist and queue up your ailments and binds. Then watch the fireworks. I took out two of the four postgame bosses in two turns each with that strategy.
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Nov 17, 2017 17:31
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Blademaster_Aio posted:Sounds about as feasible as brouni harbingers. No it works really well you foolish man. Also prosperous gels are easy!!!
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Nov 17, 2017 18:36
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I have bad luck, so I'm going with the elemental chain party. Works pretty alright so far. Bit worried about the third stratum boss, admittedly.
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Nov 17, 2017 18:41
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Aerofallosov posted:I have bad luck, so I'm going with the elemental chain party. Works pretty alright so far. Bit worried about the third stratum boss, admittedly. Honestly, I'd question going all-in on Chain Killer at that point anyway. I didn't really start to do well with it until the 5th Stratum. And by that point, there are enough skill points available that you'll be able to do well with elemental chains, too, if Chain Killer fails you. I also wouldn't build your party entirely around Chain Killer, even if you do decide to use it, because if you whiff your ailments and binds, you're going to need a fallback. My party is sort of a hybrid between Chain Killer and elemental chains. I have a Deathbringer Harbinger and Barrage Pugilist dedicated to ailments and binds respectively, but my back line also has an Omnimancer Warlock (who can also bind) and a Herald Shaman. When it's time for Chain Killer, the Shaman uses an ailment or bind item to contribute, but he's also able to buff people's weapons with elemental damage and use Dance Oracle if it's time to use elemental chains.
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Nov 17, 2017 18:51
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I'm still slowly plugging away at this, almost done with the first stratum. I spent last night doing some of the quests to kill FOEs and felt like my team was pretty unstoppable. Still, owlbears are jerks.
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Nov 17, 2017 19:00
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Escape rates in EO5 are reliable, my butt!  (Granted it's better than 4 and U at the very least.)
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Nov 17, 2017 20:35
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Dr. Fetus posted:Escape rates in EO5 are reliable, my butt! Escape rates are reliable, except when they're not. Save your map data? Yes/No
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Nov 17, 2017 20:58
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Harrow posted:I also wouldn't build your party entirely around Chain Killer, even if you do decide to use it, because if you whiff your ailments and binds, you're going to need a fallback. my fallback is, i still have an entire party of people who can halve the damage they take with buffs/debuffs alone and dish out a ton of binds and ailments anyway  the fencer, well, i have an extra twenty item slots, i can actually fit healing items in my bag this time and he's on cure duty. my  smoke botanist is too busy to actually heal things herself
Fur20 fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Nov 17, 2017 |
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Nov 17, 2017 21:14
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The White Dragon posted:my fallback is, i still have an entire party of people who can halve the damage they take with buffs/debuffs alone and dish out a ton of binds and ailments anyway Yeah, when Chain Killer doesn't do the job, I still have Frigid Reap, Leading Blow, my Warlock's whole arsenal, and elemental chains that I have plenty of points to level up so, hey, why not? It's a good as hell party setup.
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Nov 17, 2017 21:37
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Getting dryads conditional is a pain. I can never get her to a sliver of her health and let poison kill her. My set up took 85% of her health in one go, and it was pretty much either I kill her or annoy her by poking her hoping the poison would finally kill her, but it wore off. Next time I'll just use a formaldehyde to save myself the pain. On another note, my level 80+ fencer made rage vent whiff it was so good.
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Nov 18, 2017 04:03
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Chains are really glorious in this game, especially since you can substitute stabs instead of having to do elemental damage. My back row is a Hawk Rover, a bow-wielding Botanist, and a Warlock, all just keeping the chains rolling while my Pugilist locks down the enemy team with binds. Not much in the ways of buffs/debuffs with this team, but by golly, can it chew through enemy encounters.
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Nov 18, 2017 04:10
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So.... I actually got my hands on a 3DS a while back, about a year ago, but I just recently got EO4 thanks to Gamefly. Just got the Irredecent Ore, gonna start flying soon. So, I'm currently planning on using my five starter characters + one of each unlockable class. I've heard that Medic is better as a subclass to others, so for now, my plan is to try and survive until I can make an Arcanist and sub Medic on them. Any tips for a Landy/Dancer/Nightseeker, Sniper/Runemaster party regarding builds and/or strategy? I'm currently planning on surviving through item usage, Bandage, and Regen Waltz.
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Nov 18, 2017 07:14
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Junpei posted:So.... Subclassing isn't a thing you can do until... I think it's early-to-mid Maze 3? I haven't used D or N (my party until recently was LF/RAS) so I don't have tips for those much but... L generally wants to go first; Vanguard is a lot more useful than it sounds because of that. They don't really start to take off damagewise until they can take Improved Link. S might have trouble with damage early on but should improve a lot once you have an A, at least if you're building a bind-focused S. R is the hardest job to subclass since none of the other classes really have very much they can benefit from except maybe I.
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Nov 18, 2017 07:24
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I meant more general skill point allocation tips. Right now, my plan is to have N use Decoy Sign on L to take heat off all 4 of the other squishies.
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Nov 18, 2017 07:41
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Stock up on medicas. There are so many ways to build a dancer so what do you want from them? Getting attack tango is nice, but freedom waltz and refresh waltz are pretty good vs enemies who inflict disables. I also like energy tango. But sword dance, fan dance and a nightseeker sub for two weapon attacking is my favourite. Instead of decoy sign, blind and paralysis will help you more along with arm bind, because every hard hitter in the first stratum uses arm skills. Except the scorpions.
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Nov 18, 2017 07:53
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Junpei actually playing an EO game? Land sakes alive, now I've seen everything!
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Nov 18, 2017 16:17
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Blademaster_Aio posted:Stock up on medicas. There are so many ways to build a dancer so what do you want from them? Getting attack tango is nice, but freedom waltz and refresh waltz are pretty good vs enemies who inflict disables. I also like energy tango. Currently, I'm just unlocking all the skills I can before I go to focus on build. Everyone has their Proficiency, and is at level 4. Connor (my Landy) has every skill except Minerology at level 1. Julie (Dancer) has the three starting Waltz/Tango/Samba skills, Fan Dance and Dendrology at 1. Randall (Nightseeker) has everything but Herbology at 1. Keira (Sniper) has Scavenger, Long Shot and Arm Snipe at 1, and Leg Snipe at 2. Stacy (Runemaster) has all the starting resistance-changing runes, as well as Fireball and Ice Lance at 1. I think I'll build Julie as a supportive Dancer by focusing on Waltzes and Tangos, Connor as a link attacker, Randall as a hybrid ailment inflicted/damager, Keira as a binder, and Stacy as a... well, elemental damage dealer.
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Nov 18, 2017 17:21
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Junpei posted:I meant more general skill point allocation tips. Right now, my plan is to have N use Decoy Sign on L to take heat off all 4 of the other squishies. I remember getting a ton of mileage out of Blind on my nightseeker(s) early game. It was only later supplanted by Poison, which lets you one-turn most organic enemy groups.
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Nov 18, 2017 17:21
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