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Rigel posted:I'm just gonna go ahead and go way out on a limb by assuming Franken didn't say "hey, do you mind if I put my hand on your butt while we take this picture?" I really don't think that's what happened either. Like I said the details going by that article are very vague. We don't know how long the contact was. What kind of hug Franken went in with. There's a lot of unknowns. Either way in my circles asking how someone wants you to take a selfie is like going "Y..y..you too." It's very nerdy and seen as lame. But I'm a Latino. We are very touchy and feely. We hug and kiss everyone. You are Americans. You are very cold. You want "personal space.' I grew up sleeping 4 kids in the same bed for half my life. And until the age of 8 in my parents bed.
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Nov 20, 2017 18:03
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WoodrowSkillson posted:lol, you can ask your friend for a picture at a party None of the people involved in what started the discussion about it in this thread are friends.
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Nov 20, 2017 18:03
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DreamShipWrecked posted:It goes both ways honestly if Michelle hugged me (with consent!) I'd be making the same face 
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Nov 20, 2017 18:03
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NothingMatters posted:But I'm a Latino. We are very touchy and feely. We hug and kiss everyone. You are Americans. You are very cold. You want "personal space.' beep boop what is consent
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Nov 20, 2017 18:03
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Koalas March posted:honestly if Michelle hugged me (with consent!) I'd be making the same face Those arms... The right wing is just scared of being the little spoon.
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Nov 20, 2017 18:04
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farraday posted:https://twitter.com/APDiploWriter/status/932651387833462784?s=17 Has North Korea actually engaged in any terrorist activity recently? Also, how the hell is Saudi Arabia not on that list.
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Nov 20, 2017 18:05
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Koalas March posted:Yo, you don't have PM's but I'm here if you need to talk. You can explain it here (I am a bad mod) or shoot me an email at my.username@gmail.com I think what's bothering me is that I tend to overanalyze social situations to begin with, and I have been trying to be less self-critical/hyperaware of my actions in any given moment. Right now the thread is encouraging more mindfulness and awareness of our actions around other people for good reason. The thought that I should be more aware and have probably violated someone's comfort zone in the past anyway just sets off all sorts of alarm bells and the desire to curl up into a little ball. I have no idea whether anyone else might be feeling this way when discussing recent events.
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Nov 20, 2017 18:05
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DreamShipWrecked posted:Exactly. Would you do this pose if you were at a work luncheon and they took a group photo? No? Then don't do it to this rando you don't know. I've seen (and reported) some heinous poo poo going on at work events. In the workplace men often have a lot better sense of how powerless their victim is, compared to some random photo-op. Some of that poo poo went on for years.
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Nov 20, 2017 18:05
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I don't get why people would grope in photos but I guess I could understand it if it was to a significant other and it's a turn on for the both of you.
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Nov 20, 2017 18:05
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Koalas March posted:Most people don't even loving ask. they just grab it, or start petting you like a dog. (See racist rear end Taylor Swift petting The Weeknd at a Vogue afterparty) This kinda goes both ways. I was the only white girl in my school and black girls would always be grabbing and touching my hair and trying to corn row it during classes. That poo poo hurts yo! People in general need to learn that touching other people with out their permission isn't acceptable. I've always noted that i'd never want to be pregnant because it seems like personal space just goes out the window once there's a parasite on board.
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Nov 20, 2017 18:05
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I guess I haven't been in many situations where I've hugged someone I didn't know, or at least someone I didn't become acquainted with over the course of some time. When I hug my friend-girls, I usually put both hands on their middle-back-ish area, sometimes a little above, sometimes a little below, just however the hug happens. I think as long as you're not weird about it and don't intentionally push it, they won't think you're a creep. But I've never had any issues in those kinds of social situations, so what do I know.
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Nov 20, 2017 18:06
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Doctor Butts posted:I don't get why people would grope in photos but I guess I could understand it if it was to a significant other and it's a turn on for the both of you. i’m glad you don’t get the concept of sexual assault aaaaaaaaaaa
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Nov 20, 2017 18:06
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NothingMatters posted:I really don't think that's what happened either. Seen as lame by who? As an aside, my family is made up of Latinx's as well (from El Savador) and let me tell you, that machismo poo poo is not healthy and I have seen members of my family cover up some real hosed up poo poo by saying "it's just our culture" so you might not wanna use that lovely rear end defense. The other half of my family on my mom's side is Italians and let me tell you, my mom tried to do that touchy feely poo poo to point were it became borderline abusive.
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Nov 20, 2017 18:07
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All the booze-drenched second guesses on ~strattergery~ and fuzzy coke regrets just melting away... ..like an Iraqi toddler spattered with white phosphorus. A little screaming pool draining away into the cold dark.
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Nov 20, 2017 18:07
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NothingMatters posted:I really don't think that's what happened either. Here's what the accuser said quote:He “pulled me in really close, like awkward close, and as my husband took the picture, he put his hand full-fledged on my rear,” Lindsay Menz told CNN's MJ Lee, who broke the story Monday. “It was wrapped tightly around my butt cheek.” Seems clear to me. Franken's in (or should be in) a lot of trouble. I'm not going to condemn anyone for doing a side-hug without asking, thats just culturally OK right now.
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Nov 20, 2017 18:07
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DaveWoo posted:Has North Korea actually engaged in any terrorist activity recently? Because "state sponsor of terror" doesn't really mean anything anymore. It's just a preclude to harder action. "This country is a state that sponsors terrorism!" *Three news cycles pass* "We have to bomb them! Everyone knows they do state sponsored terrorism!"
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Nov 20, 2017 18:08
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silicone thrills posted:This kinda goes both ways. I was the only white girl in my school and black girls would always be grabbing and touching my hair and trying to corn row it during classes. That poo poo hurts yo! It sucks that happened to you, but the systematic and societal view of black hair (which is inherently political) that black women have to deal with is not really on the same level.
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Nov 20, 2017 18:08
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Alter Ego posted:I'm willing to bet Barack Obama didn't feel physically uncomfortable when these were taken. Why?
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Nov 20, 2017 18:10
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Because men aren’t systemically sexually assaulted or harassed by women and he has a great deal more power than the little old ladies in those pictures. And again, he would still be entitled to not be ok with it. But presenting them as “hurr durr he got groped too” as implicit dismissal is stupid and you can gently caress off with it.
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Nov 20, 2017 18:12
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https://twitter.com/yashar/status/932657601548046341
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Nov 20, 2017 18:12
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DreamShipWrecked posted:Because "state sponsor of terror" doesn't really mean anything anymore. It's just a preclude to harder action. We aren't going to war with them next month Why is everyone freaking out about this? I know I'm one to talk, but if you want to worry about something, worry about the poo poo going on in the Middle East
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Nov 20, 2017 18:12
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There Bias Two posted:I think what's bothering me is that I tend to overanalyze social situations to begin with, and I have been trying to be less self-critical/hyperaware of my actions in any given moment. Right now the thread is encouraging more mindfulness and awareness of our actions around other people for good reason. The thought that I should be more aware and have probably violated someone's comfort zone in the past anyway just sets off all sorts of alarm bells and the desire to curl up into a little ball. I have no idea whether anyone else might be feeling this way when discussing recent events. The reality of the world is that no one is perfect, and everyone has hosed up and made someone uncomfortable before. It's hard to find social boundaries, and there are a lot of fuckups along the way. As long as you recognize when you messed up and use it to grow then you are doing good. When people really get poo poo on is when it's something that is blatantly wrong (grabbing people's asses for photos) or they are far too old to claim they don't know better. Doing microaggressions sucks but I don't think anyone here would call you out on it if you recognize what you did was wrong.
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Nov 20, 2017 18:13
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When black girls would touch my hair, they asked first, we'd known each other for a while, and it was genuine curiosity. Whenever you see white folks touch black folks hair, they hardly know them, they don't ask, and send a clear message that the black person doesn't have agency over their own body as far as the white person is concerned.
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Nov 20, 2017 18:13
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silicone thrills posted:This kinda goes both ways. I was the only white girl in my school and black girls would always be grabbing and touching my hair and trying to corn row it during classes. That poo poo hurts yo! One of my friends would deadpan-stare at people that invaded her space like that and go "I'm not pregnant, I'm just fat" and continue staring until the more-awkward people went away. It was pretty great watching the shock/embarrassment/horror flick across their faces before they'd run off.
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Nov 20, 2017 18:13
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silicone thrills posted:on touching hair Koalas March posted:on touching hair This is a thing? I've never heard of this before. I've gone my whole life without the urge to touch a strangers hair. What is the draw for people in this? At best, it's just hair. At worst, greasy gel or worse. I mean, I can admire a well done hairstyle. But I would not want to touch it.
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Nov 20, 2017 18:13
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Lightning Knight posted:Don’t act like the only options are “assume you can intrude on women’s personal space without asking” and “be an uncool dweeb around women.” The answer is to ask and talk to people. Fair enough. I was operating with an uncharitable interpretation of what posters here hade been saying. Lemming posted:I think the distinction is that I believe the "you don't need to ask people" (at least, this is my perspective), is that if the person reaches out to put their arm around your waist/shoulder that means they're comfortable, so you reciprocate, and if they don't, it means they're not so you don't. Agreed. There are certain human behaviors, particularly in social situations, that are usually not vocalized and aren't normally expected to be vocalized. This isn't necessarily to say that they shouldn't be, but that some of us have been socialized to behave in certain ways around other people, and learned rules as to what is acceptable/unacceptable or expected/unexpected behavior that don't necessarily align with norms proposed in this thread. I for one grew up a really loving awkward person, and it took me a very long time to get over weirdness about touching people. Being told that I'm doing it wrong (or interpreting that this is what I'm being told) makes me defensive, and I think defensiveness in this thread is sometimes being interpreted as, like, bro-jock aggressor masculinity. Anyhow, nobody thinks it's appropriate to grab someone's rear end in a photo op.
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Nov 20, 2017 18:14
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There Bias Two posted:I think what's bothering me is that I tend to overanalyze social situations to begin with, and I have been trying to be less self-critical/hyperaware of my actions in any given moment. Right now the thread is encouraging more mindfulness and awareness of our actions around other people for good reason. The thought that I should be more aware and have probably violated someone's comfort zone in the past anyway just sets off all sorts of alarm bells and the desire to curl up into a little ball. I have no idea whether anyone else might be feeling this way when discussing recent events. Hey, the person you are now knows better than the person you were then, so that's a major plus! The best thing you can do is forgive that person that doesn't even exist anymore, and focus on what YOU can do to make things better for yourself and the other people around you.
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Nov 20, 2017 18:14
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Americans are hosed up.
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Nov 20, 2017 18:14
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For whatever it's worth, I think it's fair to say that a politician side-hugging a stranger is different from side-hugging a stranger you just met at a bar or something.
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Nov 20, 2017 18:15
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RBA-Wintrow posted:This is a thing? It's a really common thing for black people, especially women, due to the texture of their hair being different. Why anyone would just grab someone's hair is far beyond me, but it's a Major Thing for some God forsaken reason.
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Nov 20, 2017 18:15
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https://twitter.com/abbydphillip/status/932655293867184134?s=17
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Nov 20, 2017 18:15
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Paracaidas posted:Nah, dude should stay through the ethics investigation. Let all of his poo poo be exposed and put on record. He needs to go now. Democrats have been pushing the immediate get out for Moore. Sitting back and saying "Well when the ethics committee finds something" is the same horse poo poo Republicans are defending Moore with and democrats are bitching against. If the party and Al don't get this, then we're just as bad as Republicans in that sexual abusers can exist in either party and be defended.
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Nov 20, 2017 18:15
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NothingMatters posted:
Congratulations. Not everyone is Latino, not everyone is touchy and feely and not everyone slept with 3 siblings for half their lives. Your experience is unique to you and I'm confused as to why you cannot understand this.
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Nov 20, 2017 18:15
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RBA-Wintrow posted:This is a thing? http://hairnah.com/
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Nov 20, 2017 18:15
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RBA-Wintrow posted:This is a thing? Basically: Vintersorg posted:Americans are hosed up. But really, it's because there are a shitload of people out there that think invading another person's space without permission is ok because everyone else exists for their own personal entertainment. It bugs me that so many people out there will just up and start groping a total stranger and think it's okay to do and then jump through all kinds of hoops to try and justify it when it's called out as hosed up.
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Nov 20, 2017 18:16
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Yeah good luck with that.
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Nov 20, 2017 18:17
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As a MN goon I will admit I really hoped Franken's situation would be a one-off stupidity before he was elected. The ok apology and acceptance were giving me a bit of hope. He gotta go now. Sorry Al, it's been fun. Thanks for getting Sessions to commit perjury, please resign. I give it til end of day before next story breaks, tomorrow at latest.
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Nov 20, 2017 18:17
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RBA-Wintrow posted:This is a thing? Black hair has many textures, that are foreign to yt folks who keep to their lily white circles. So they wanna touch it and see what it feels like. 
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Nov 20, 2017 18:18
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I was reading the CNN article about Franken and this part stuck out to me:quote:Minnesota statutes state that "intentional touching of the clothing covering the immediate area of the buttocks" is not considered criminal sexual conduct. So... grabbing someone's rear end isn't sexual harassment as long as they're wearing pants? Seems pretty hosed up.
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Nov 20, 2017 18:18
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