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FIGHTING-MAN: Sep 24, 2012

I've never really known much about Raven, except for always hearing that Synnibarr is a hot mess, but...wow.

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FIGHTING-MAN fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Nov 20, 2017

# ? Nov 20, 2017 17:36

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# ? May 25, 2024 02:14

Mors Rattus: Oct 25, 2007; FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
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2014-2018

Raven C. S. McCracken is a lunatic with bad ideas?

Who would have ever guessed.

# ? Nov 20, 2017 17:40

Comrade Gorbash: Jul 12, 2011; My paper soldiers form a wall, five paces thick and twice as tall.

Mors Rattus posted:

Raven C. S. McCracken is a lunatic with bad ideas?

Who would have ever guessed.

To be fair, most know him as a terrible game designer and world builder, not as a miserable excuse for a human being.

# ? Nov 20, 2017 17:45

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

Remember when some nutjob came and tried shooting his ex girlfriend in a bar, where mccracken happened to be at the time, and mccracken blamed HER for it?

... in an update on his kickstarter for a new edition of world of synnibarr?

# ? Nov 20, 2017 17:46

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

quote:

I myself interviewed Raven C.S. McCracken, who was already a legendary industry boob for his terrible self-published role-playing game, the World of Synnibarr. When Raven told me that if I didn't hire him his next job interview would be at Burger King, I thanked him for his time and politely showed him the door.

John Tynes, in a 2001 article about his time at WotC.

# ? Nov 20, 2017 18:04

Kurieg: Jul 19, 2012; RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20

FMguru posted:

John Tynes, in a 2001 article about his time at WotC.

"Was that statement meant to be an enticement not to hire you?"

# ? Nov 20, 2017 18:54

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 5, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

FMguru posted:

John Tynes, in a 2001 article about his time at WotC.

Also, let's not forget:

John Tynes posted:

The first thing I noticed about my new employer was how the halls of the offices ran rampant with representatives of alt culture. Up to that point managers' hiring practices seemingly consisted of recruiting anyone they gamed, partied or slept with, and preferably all three. If you were a Seattle gamer in 1994-95, you had to be willfully incompetent to not get a job at Wizards. (That happened, of course.)

# ? Nov 20, 2017 18:59

Countblanc: Apr 20, 2005; _{Help a hero out!}

1994-95 sounds like a good time to be a game designer looking for work.

# ? Nov 20, 2017 19:34

Bieeanshee: Aug 21, 2000; Not keen on keening.; Grimey Drawer

I've always suspected that he was one of the original FeDorks.

# ? Nov 20, 2017 19:42

Evil Mastermind: Apr 28, 2008

I wish I could say that I was surprised that Raven is one of those "oh, women don't like it when you hit on them out of the loving blue I GUESS WE JUST CAN'T TALK TO WOMEN ANYMORE" types, but, well...

# ? Nov 20, 2017 22:04

Desiden: Mar 13, 2016; Mindless self indulgence is SRS BIZNS

What makes it extra funny is even if you believe this poo poo, that asking a woman out for coffee will immediately get you arrested for rape, that if we as a species are going to survive there has to be some sort of "sekrit signal" to legally allow us to express interest...

...there already is. Its called Tinder. Of course, going on that means having to accept that some people are going to look at you and just say "nope". Far better to live in an imaginary world controlled by a freemasonic gynojudaic conspiracy of man haters.

# ? Nov 20, 2017 22:34

Plutonis: Mar 25, 2011

I don't interact with women because honestly artificial insemination, porn and fleshlight technology has made them economically and emotionally not worth the cost. Perhaps more people should wise up and follow my lead :thumbsup:

. #MGTOW

# ? Nov 20, 2017 22:44

occamsnailfile: Nov 4, 2007; zamtrios so lonely; Grimey Drawer

Desiden posted:

gynojudaic

this is a good adjective and i must save it for later usage.

Also given the number of married gamer nerds I know, talking to women definitely seems to be a thing that is possible if you just believe in yourself. And don't masturbate in front of them.

# ? Nov 20, 2017 23:17

Der Waffle Mous: Nov 27, 2009; In the grim future, there is only commerce.

Raven MGTOW McCracken

# ? Nov 20, 2017 23:35

Bruceski: Aug 21, 2007; The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

occamsnailfile posted:

And don't masturbate in front of them.

Why don't I just defy gravity while I'm at it? What next, you expect me to shower or something?

# ? Nov 21, 2017 00:05

LuiCypher: Apr 24, 2010; Today I'm... amped up!

Evil Mastermind posted:

I wish I could say that I was surprised that Raven is one of those "oh, women don't like it when you hit on them out of the loving blue I GUESS WE JUST CAN'T TALK TO WOMEN ANYMORE" types, but, well...

Like, did anyone see what he was trying to do with his life after Synnibar?

http://www.somethingawful.com/dungeons-and-dragons/synnibarr-raven-mccracken/15/

The line under 'About Me' for his company 'Scandalous Entertainment' is pretty much a ginormous red flag for that type of behavior. In case you hate clicking on links:

Raven C. S. McCracken's Scandalous Entertainment posted:

About me:
We are a Seattle-based company currently in pre-production for a late night TV show featuring gorgeous, scantily-clad women doing their thing on the runway!

Who I'd like to meet:
Sexy lingerie models, photographers, investors, make-up artists, stylists...and the like

# ? Nov 21, 2017 00:07

Nuns with Guns: Jul 23, 2010; It's fine.
Don't worry about it.

"OH, SO YOU WANT TO BE LEFT ALONE, DO YOU?"

"...Yeeesss?"

# ? Nov 21, 2017 01:25

KingKalamari: Aug 24, 2007; Fuzzy dice, bongos in the back
My ship of love is ready to attack

I feel like Mr. McCracken is not really well suited to comment on modern society given that it's abundantly clear he lives in another reality entirely...

# ? Nov 21, 2017 05:47

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Reminder:

quote:

Recently I was at Dragonflight's 36th year of conventioning in the Bellevue, WA area. I was there with PlaytestNW as an designer demoing my board game prototype, having a great time. Dragonflight is a very small con- I'm used to going to PAX every year- and I kept seeing someone that was catching my eye.

I don't know if it's because I really recognized him, or if it was just because he stood out so much from the crowd. Most of the con-goers were the average hardcore tabletop crowd: moppish haircuts, unkempt beards and faded nerd t-shirts tucked into high-waisted, highwater jeans. Not this man.

He would move at a fast pace between tables and it was hard for me to get a good enough look at him to be sure, but features kept popping out. Tailored, fitted suede jacket with subtle gothic designs in the pattern and details. A tasteful grey mohawk that would be the rival of any russian blue fancier. A complete lack of stubble on either his face or sides of his mohawk betrayed immaculate grooming.

Before I knew it he caught me glancing at him, our eyes met. Panicking inside, I thought of something to say, anything. "Hi, would you like to play a board game?" Stupid. So stupid. His quick devilish grin and sly look gave him a definite air of arrogance and self importance- but in a way that was distinctly charming and at the same time almost self-depreciating. He holds out his hand, "Yes, my name is Raven McCracken," are his first words to me. "I created the World of Synnibar." He handed me his business card, it is a trading card with him dressed as a Jedi with photoshopped Force powers and his "official Jedi name".

And that's how I met Raven McCracken last weekend.

# ? Nov 21, 2017 05:56

DalaranJ: Apr 15, 2008; Yosuke will now die for you.

Kurieg posted:

"Was that statement meant to be an enticement not to hire you?"

I think it was a very confused hit piece against Burger King.

# ? Nov 21, 2017 06:28

GenderSelectScreen: Mar 7, 2010; I DON'T KNOW EITHER DON'T ASK ME; College Slice

Eric Mona has made an official stance regarding the demon Folca found in the Book of the Damned

quote:

I was away at PAX Unplugged this weekend and into the first part of this week, so let me start off with an apology for not responding to this thread earlier.

As noted in the OP, I am already on the record as admitting that Folca's inclusion was in bad taste, that it was a mistake to publish it, and that I and everyone else at Paizo regret the text that made it into the final book. Please allow me to repeat that sentiment, originally offered on Twitter, here directly: It was a mistake to include these themes in one of our products. We should not have done it the first time in the original Book of the Damned Volume 3, and we should have used the opportunity of the compiled hardcover to adjust elements of the character to be something less divisive and dumb, or to cut it altogether.

We didn't do that, and frankly we deserve the criticism we've received on the issue.

We certainly don't intend to focus on Folca in the future, and will not be including him in future Pathfinder products. From this point forward, Folca is officially done in the world of Pathfinder, and he heads into the memory hole with other mistakes we've made.

We cannot change the printed books in which he already appears. In the event that we reprint the book, we will very likely cut him from the book entirely. Changing the files without changing the book itself is a significant departure from our normal errata policy, and brings with it a number of logistical challenges. We�re not interested in creating an allure for pirated copies of the uncensored version, and thus we will address Folca�s presence (or lack thereof) as part of our reprint strategy for the book.

We're also taking some internal editorial steps to make sure that material suggesting sexual violence against children gets nixed before we publish it. Yes, it is a very real "evil" in the world, but Pathfinder doesn't need to include every single reprehensible thing in the universe, and it doesn't need to include predatory sexual violence against children, especially with rules attached.

Many of you are probably thinking, "what's the problem? I can handle this in my game." Or maybe even "bad guys are supposed to be evil," and to you folks this statement probably seems like some kind of betrayal or act of cowardice. The fact of the matter is that this issue specifically crosses a line with a HUGE number of gamers, and we knew better than to cross it this time. After the recent furor, we know even better not to cross it in the future.

You're cool to do whatever you want in your games, but the public is right to hold us to a higher standard. Just because you think you can be responsible with this type of content does not mean that every GM can. Much more importantly, the primary concern here is less the GM and more the player who randomly encounters these themes unwittingly, and finds him or herself reliving terrible memories of trauma during what is supposed to be a game people play for fun.

Every so often, in an effort to fill in every blank, or provide rules for every eventuality, we can cross into a line of making a rule for something that probably shouldn't be in the game in the first place.

Folca is an example of just such an element, and he (and his kind) will not be welcome in Pathfinder products in the future.

--Erik Mona
Publisher
Paizo Inc.

PS: Due to the potential volatility of this topic, we�ll be temporarily closing this topic at 5:00 Pacific time today to allow our moderators to take their four-day Thanksgiving holiday in relative peace. We�ll open things again when we return to the office next week.

thread here: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uq7d&page=last?SoFolca

I'm glad they're removing the child molesting demon from future content, but I wish it hadn't been reprinted in the first place. Or printed for all that matter. Some topics are meant to be off-topic, especially in a game.

# ? Nov 22, 2017 23:10

Mors Rattus: Oct 25, 2007; FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018

At least it has been addressed, tho I still have no idea how thus got past so many chances to have not happened in the first place. But at least he seems to get why this poo poo was wrong and bad, and isn't being defensive.

E: holy poo poo some of the posters in that thread are scum

Mors Rattus fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Nov 23, 2017

# ? Nov 22, 2017 23:46

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 5, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

Hitlers Gay Secret posted:

Eric Mona has made an official stance regarding the demon Folca found in the Book of the Damned

thread here: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uq7d&page=last?SoFolca

I'm glad they're removing the child molesting demon from future content, but I wish it hadn't been reprinted in the first place. Or printed for all that matter. Some topics are meant to be off-topic, especially in a game.

Maybe one day they'll get around to all the casually-mentioned rape in the core books, if they actually care about this sort of thing. A few minutes while I pull down the most recent printing, to check, and:

"Half-orcs are monstrosities, their tragic births the result of perversion and violence�or at least, that�s how other races see them. It�s true that half-orcs are rarely the result of loving unions-"

Nope, still in there, still the same Paizo I know.

# ? Nov 23, 2017 00:37

senrath: Nov 4, 2009; Look Professor, a destruct switch!

Yeah they're not sorry about reprinting Folca, they're sorry that reprinting Folca has caused a fuss.

# ? Nov 23, 2017 00:52

Falstaff: Apr 27, 2008; I have a kind of alacrity in sinking.

The way half-orcs are depicted is pretty gross, I agree. That's a separate issue from the Folca (though, arguably, it stems from the same source), so I'm willing to take the apology for the latter at face value as a well-written and probably authentic gesture, without giving Paizo a pass for the prevalence of rape that's historically been in their books.

# ? Nov 23, 2017 01:21

Wrestlepig: Feb 25, 2011; my mum says im cool; Toilet Rascal

One thing I never really got was why they added rape to half-orcs, since in 3rd edition, they�re from intermingling frontier communities. Of the few changes, that choice really stands out and doesn�t really fit the sort of pulpy thriller heroic fantasy mashup tones these rpgs go for.

# ? Nov 23, 2017 01:22

Comrade Gorbash: Jul 12, 2011; My paper soldiers form a wall, five paces thick and twice as tall.

rumble in the bunghole posted:

One thing I never really got was why they added rape to half-orcs, since in 3rd edition, they�re from intermingling frontier communities. Of the few changes, that choice really stands out and doesn�t really fit the sort of pulpy thriller heroic fantasy mashup tones these rpgs go for.

For all Paizo likes to paint itself as progressive, it's worth noting that the designers who it picked up to make Pathfinder tended to be the 3.x devs who were most regressive and least comfortable with change. Part of "fixing" 3.x for PF was in places going back to the old, groggy descriptions. It's not consistent, but there's more than a little of "this was how it was when I was 12" in the core books.

# ? Nov 23, 2017 01:47

GenderSelectScreen: Mar 7, 2010; I DON'T KNOW EITHER DON'T ASK ME; College Slice

It also makes authors have to specifically mention that half-orc NPCs come from loving parents in APs/Modules.

# ? Nov 23, 2017 01:47

Countblanc: Apr 20, 2005; _{Help a hero out!}

It's part of the spoken lore of D&D (and by extention, pathfinder), sadly. Even when 4e was recent I remember people just taking orc rape as canon because it always has been and "makes sense". Not that this excuses it of course, but odds are it was just someone writing what they always heard/assumed.

# ? Nov 23, 2017 01:50

unseenlibrarian: Jun 4, 2012; There's only one thing in the mountains that leaves a track like this. The creature of legend that roams the Timberline. My people named him Sasquatch. You call him... Bigfoot.

It's a direct reaction to the 4E team going "Yeah, we're not comfortable with Orc rape being a thing we have to explain or even mention in the core so we're putting off half-orcs until later and we have a good angle on them."

Paizo thus had to double down on it for Pathfinder to appease angry grogs. And since it's part of the 'we're not like those 4E cowards' thing, they can't ever back away from it.

# ? Nov 23, 2017 02:01

Mors Rattus: Oct 25, 2007; FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018

In that thread, Erik Mona flat out says, the one line he has for content at this point is 'sexual abuse of children'. Normal rape stuff, that he sees no need to get rid of.

# ? Nov 23, 2017 02:21

Wrestlepig: Feb 25, 2011; my mum says im cool; Toilet Rascal

Countblanc posted:

It's part of the spoken lore of D&D (and by extention, pathfinder), sadly. Even when 4e was recent I remember people just taking orc rape as canon because it always has been and "makes sense". Not that this excuses it of course, but odds are it was just someone writing what they always heard/assumed.

the 3.5 one doesn't really match how alignments work so I can see how people assume it. I guess the games all just snookered themselves, but it really wouldn't be hard to whip something up that isn't as creepy, like they were made as supersoldiers by ancient wizards or by good aligned orcs Drizzting it up. Half orcs are really just a bundle of bad ideas, even if it's fun as gently caress to play as a barbarian and they're good for that.

# ? Nov 23, 2017 02:47

Kavak: Aug 23, 2009

Wasn't one of 4E's ideas "Gruumsh smooshed humans and orcs together to make something with the strengths of both"?

# ? Nov 23, 2017 02:49

Tuxedo Catfish: Mar 17, 2007; You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.

Kavak posted:

Wasn't one of 4E's ideas "Gruumsh smooshed humans and orcs together to make something with the strengths of both"?

Well, "ideas" -- you basically just described Uruk-Hai. (Or half-Orc "goblin men" who served as Saruman's spies if you want to go to the books rather than the movies.)

# ? Nov 23, 2017 03:02

Cool Dad: Jun 15, 2007; It is always Friday night, motherfuckers

I have no idea why Half-Orc is a standard race in stuff and just plain old Orc isn't.

# ? Nov 23, 2017 03:03

remusclaw: Dec 8, 2009

Enola Gay-For-Pay posted:

I have no idea why Half-Orc is a standard race in stuff and just plain old Orc isn't.

Cause AD&D.

It was one of those things taken out in second edition as part of the removal of the games more objectionable elements, and as such has too much of a place in the dark heart of grogdom to ever not be complained about when absent.

remusclaw fucked around with this message at 03:09 on Nov 23, 2017

# ? Nov 23, 2017 03:05

Falstaff: Apr 27, 2008; I have a kind of alacrity in sinking.

Comrade Gorbash posted:

For all Paizo likes to paint itself as progressive, it's worth noting that the designers who it picked up to make Pathfinder tended to be the 3.x devs who were most regressive and least comfortable with change. Part of "fixing" 3.x for PF was in places going back to the old, groggy descriptions. It's not consistent, but there's more than a little of "this was how it was when I was 12" in the core books.

In a twitter thread, Jessica Price once alluded to the idea that there are really two Paizos; one that wants to be progressive and inclusive, and another wing of the company that's regressive and married to some groggy ideas. The problem is that the latter wing of the company is very entrenched, even if the former part has been making serious gains in recent years.

# ? Nov 23, 2017 03:06

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

Yea I have zero doubt that the progressive poo poo we've seen from Paizo comes from a very real, genuine, place. The issue is the people doing it seem to be in an eternal cage match with the people who are still genuinely angry that 3.5 pussified D&D or whatever the grog line is these days.

# ? Nov 23, 2017 03:37

Plutonis: Mar 25, 2011

sexpig by night posted:

Yea I have zero doubt that the progressive poo poo we've seen from Paizo comes from a very real, genuine, place. The issue is the people doing it seem to be in an eternal cage match with the people who are still genuinely angry that 3.5 pussified D&D or whatever the grog line is these days.

You mean the only people who buy Pathfinder.

# ? Nov 23, 2017 03:42

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# ? May 25, 2024 02:14

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

sexpig by night posted:

Yea I have zero doubt that the progressive poo poo we've seen from Paizo comes from a very real, genuine, place. The issue is the people doing it seem to be in an eternal cage match with the people who are still genuinely angry that 3.5 pussified D&D or whatever the grog line is these days.

Well, Jessica Price isn't with Paizo anymore, so who knows who's still there that's not a big ol' grog.

# ? Nov 23, 2017 03:45

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