Heroes of the Storm 2.0: Pounded in the butt by my own team comp

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Heroes of the Storm 2.0: Pounded in the butt by my own team comp

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Bombogenesis: Mar 27, 2010; Mekkatorque 2016; Dinosaur Gum

Heroes that would clear waves and then leave the lane. Basically they don't like that you can burn through the ammo and then naturally push down a gate/fort with little commitment, and it requires lane-sitting from the team that's on the receiving end. Maybe it's something to try and slow down snowballing? :shrug:

# ? Nov 20, 2017 18:42

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# ? May 17, 2024 02:00

BrianBoitano: Nov 15, 2006; this is fine

I just hope they do something creative with their rebalancing to make sure Xul and Zag continue to have a purpose

# ? Nov 20, 2017 19:11

porfiria: Dec 10, 2008; by Modern Video Games

As a dirty former Valeera player, I'm curious to see if the stealth rework doesn't just completely destroy her. With the other stealth heroes, stealth is a defensive tool, but, for example, Nova would still be at least vaguely playable if her stealth were just straight up removed (which the rework kinda is). Valeera absolutely needs to be in stealth to execute anything at all, and she needs it to get in close. I know they said they're giving her stealth abilities a gap closing element, but if she's easy to spot it's going to be trivial to knock her out and then she's capable of jack and poo poo.

# ? Nov 20, 2017 19:26

Midnightghoul: Oct 1, 2003; COME ON DON'T BE SCURRED

Valeera got the very short end of the stealth rework stick at the Blizzcon build, since they not only changed the stealth mechanic but also nerfed some of her best talents, hopefully won't be that way on the PTR today

speaking of which PATCH NOTES http://us.battle.net/heroes/en/blog/21194320/heroes-of-the-storm-ptr-notes-november-20-2017-11-20-2017

# ? Nov 20, 2017 19:31

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

I like the idea of being able to balance characters like Malthael around winning the 1v1 but not being able to turn it into much structure damage. As it stands if you just push the lane you get the front wall really quickly mostly off of the draft. There may be other bad effects but I'm not totally against the change.

# ? Nov 20, 2017 19:32

Midnightghoul: Oct 1, 2003; COME ON DON'T BE SCURRED

They didn't change any specialist really. Hmmm.

# ? Nov 20, 2017 19:41

Kurieg: Jul 19, 2012; RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20

It looks like those are some brutal Samuro nerfs.

# ? Nov 20, 2017 19:44

Midnightghoul: Oct 1, 2003; COME ON DON'T BE SCURRED

Kurieg posted:

It looks like those are some brutal Samuro nerfs.

The Nova and Zeratul changes seem fine but I don't really understand the Samuro and Valeera nerfs. Guess this is a low level QM change.

I'm surprised the structure changes warranted no balance changes to any specialist (other than an Abathur pet health switch), guess I'll wait and see

# ? Nov 20, 2017 19:53

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

That Samuro mirror image damage nerf. Holy fck. From 25% of his attack damage to 9. Not 9%. 9 damage.

# ? Nov 20, 2017 20:00

Cephas: May 11, 2009; Humanity's real enemy is me!
Hya hya foowah!

quote:

Walls will now be destroyed if their connected Towers and Gate are also destroyed.

Stealth Tyrande nerf

# ? Nov 20, 2017 20:02

porfiria: Dec 10, 2008; by Modern Video Games

I mean is it possible the ammo change actually buffs specialists since they're the only ones with any hope of smashing down towers early game under the right circumstances?

# ? Nov 20, 2017 20:09

BrianBoitano: Nov 15, 2006; this is fine

Midnightghoul posted:

Valeera got the very short end of the stealth rework stick at the Blizzcon build, since they not only changed the stealth mechanic but also nerfed some of her best talents, hopefully won't be that way on the PTR today

speaking of which PATCH NOTES http://us.battle.net/heroes/en/blog/21194320/heroes-of-the-storm-ptr-notes-november-20-2017-11-20-2017

Text version:

https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/7eayyg/november_20_ptr_patch_notes/dq3o2vc/

Some things to note:

3 week PTR - Hanzo will be available next week, so for the normal 2 week length
Cursed Hollow
The first Shrine indicator will appear on the Minimap 30 seconds after the game begins, and subsequent indicators will appear 15 seconds after the previous Tribute has been captured. (similar for other maps)
Tower damage to minions has been reduced by 25%
Minion base damage has been increased by roughly 10%
Wizard Knight (part of bruiser camp) Laner has a Spell Armor Aura
Grants all nearby Allies (Minions, Mercenaries, and Heroes) 30 Spell Armor
Spell Armor is immediately removed upon leaving the aura area.
ALT + left-clicking an enemy Hero portrait will ping that Hero�s location on the Minimap if they are within allied vision. If that enemy is outside of allied vision, a chat message will inform allies that the Hero is missing.

# ? Nov 20, 2017 20:15

Toshimo: Aug 23, 2012; He's outta line...

But he's right!

No Wave posted:

That Samuro mirror image damage nerf. Holy fck. From 25% of his attack damage to 9. Not 9%. 9 damage.

It's a 12% nerf to his overall damage. Not the end of the world.

# ? Nov 20, 2017 20:15

Toshimo: Aug 23, 2012; He's outta line...

But he's right!

Midnightghoul posted:

Valeera nerfs.

These aren't Valeera buffs?

# ? Nov 20, 2017 20:18

Toshimo: Aug 23, 2012; He's outta line...

But he's right!

Midnightghoul posted:

They didn't change any specialist really. Hmmm.

Don't worry. Shitposters here informed me Blizz would never make all these changes without buffing specs.

# ? Nov 20, 2017 20:19

Toshimo: Aug 23, 2012; He's outta line...

But he's right!

Midnightghoul posted:

I'm surprised the structure changes warranted no balance changes to any specialist (other than an Abathur pet health switch), guess I'll wait and see

That's a straight buff for Aba. With or without the talent, his Locusts will always have more health now.

# ? Nov 20, 2017 20:20

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

Nova getting 10% decoy damage baseline is going to be such a pain in the rear end on ToD and other channeled objective maps.

# ? Nov 20, 2017 20:24

porfiria: Dec 10, 2008; by Modern Video Games

Nova seems like she'll benefit the most from the rework since she's least hurt by the stealth nerf and they gave her a bunch of new poo poo.

# ? Nov 20, 2017 20:51

Ignite Memories: Feb 27, 2005

Toshimo posted:

It's a 12% nerf to his overall damage. Not the end of the world.

He's also getting a lot more control of his 3-way split now, and should be a lot safer now that he can swap places in his baseline kit. It's a pretty big QOL change for him.

# ? Nov 20, 2017 21:03

Kyrosiris: May 24, 2006; You try to be happy when everyone is summoning you everywhere to "be their friend".

No Wave posted:

Nova getting 10% decoy damage baseline is going to be such a pain in the rear end on ToD and other channeled objective maps.

Yeah, I just got out of a QM game on PTR on Towers and holy gently caress she's annoying now.

# ? Nov 20, 2017 21:18

Toshimo: Aug 23, 2012; He's outta line...

But he's right!

Ignite Memories posted:

He's also getting a lot more control of his 3-way split now, and should be a lot safer now that he can swap places in his baseline kit. It's a pretty big QOL change for him.

Wtf. These patch notes are poo poo. I totally missed that in the way they are written. Christ Blizz, hire an editor with your loving loot crate millions.

# ? Nov 20, 2017 21:29

Semper Fudge: Feb 19, 2009; Pitchfork was wrong. (f)lowers of Algerbong is crap.

I don't play Samuro but it feels like his damage being frontloaded into his actual AA instead of his Mirror Images means that he'll be a lot more reliable now.

# ? Nov 20, 2017 21:37

BrianBoitano: Nov 15, 2006; this is fine

Bug: if you want to use "Try" mode on Hanzo, you can!

Go on PTR, type/paste the following into chat:

battlenet://heroes/hero/98/Hanzo

Then left-click it. You'll go to his hero page, where you can poke him & hit Try mode. Abuse your :wth:

one week early access :wth:

before it's gone!

# ? Nov 20, 2017 21:41

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

Get ready to stare at this spooky thing for a month:

# ? Nov 20, 2017 21:42

Wolfy: Jul 13, 2009

No Wave posted:

Get ready to stare at this spooky thing for a month:

What the gently caress

# ? Nov 20, 2017 21:52

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

Better news:

# ? Nov 20, 2017 22:01

Trade Chat Troll: Jan 22, 2010

No Wave posted:

Get ready to stare at this spooky thing for a month:

No Wave posted:

Better news:

# ? Nov 20, 2017 22:16

PantsBandit: Oct 26, 2007; it is both a monkey and a boombox

No Wave posted:

I like the idea of being able to balance characters like Malthael around winning the 1v1 but not being able to turn it into much structure damage. As it stands if you just push the lane you get the front wall really quickly mostly off of the draft. There may be other bad effects but I'm not totally against the change.

Yes, because what Malthael needs is to be even less effective

No Wave posted:

Better news:

Barf

# ? Nov 20, 2017 22:21

Kyrosiris: May 24, 2006; You try to be happy when everyone is summoning you everywhere to "be their friend".

BrianBoitano posted:

Bug: if you want to use "Try" mode on Hanzo, you can!

Go on PTR, type/paste the following into chat:

battlenet://heroes/hero/98/Hanzo

Then left-click it. You'll go to his hero page, where you can poke him & hit Try mode. Abuse your one week early access before it's gone!

From the main menu, or already in try mode? I'm curious about his talents.

# ? Nov 20, 2017 22:22

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

Mind over Matter posted:

What's your preferred build or build-ish, now? I liked ZJ before the rework but I haven't had a chance to try him yet since.

His mage build is disgusting.

For the first two talents, it depends how safe you feel being aggressive. If you're not too confident staying alive, take Headhunter and Voodoo Shuffle. The extra range and share removal are a lot of survivability. If you are confident, take Recklessness and Amani Rage. Amani Rage allows you to activate your spellpower bonus and makes Guillotine more consistent.

Level 7 is Arcanite Axes. This is not negotiable. When your baseline quest comes online, you will start making GBS threads out stupid amounts of damage.

Level 10 is Guillotine. Especially with Amani Rage, it allows you to deal a huge aoe burst and is incredibly good for sniping runners.

Level 13 is Lacerate or Ensnare. Lacerate allows you to put a substantial 60% slow out on multiple targets but Ensnare allows you to lock down a single target and vaporise them with your full combo.

Level 16 is Wrong Place Wrong Time. By now your quest should have hit 150 but if it hasn't then this will get you the rest. Once you have the quest done and this talent, you will become a god of death and everything will melt before you.

Level 20 is Buzzsaw. Guillotine being good means the forward rolling is good now and a free full heal if you get a kill is really powerful. I've been tempted to try Forest Medicine but never got around to it.

# ? Nov 20, 2017 22:33

Diephoon: Aug 24, 2003; LOL; Nap Ghost

No Wave posted:

Better news:

*teleports behind u under missletoe*

psssh...nothin personnel...kid... *smooch*

# ? Nov 20, 2017 22:35

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

Now I'm hoping reaper's mark is mistletoe and last rites is a smooch

No Wave fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Nov 20, 2017

# ? Nov 20, 2017 22:49

Indecisive: May 6, 2007

that new loading screen is a nightmare

# ? Nov 20, 2017 22:55

Kyrosiris: May 24, 2006; You try to be happy when everyone is summoning you everywhere to "be their friend".

Because of course they did. :allears:

# ? Nov 20, 2017 23:11

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

The new legendary skin for the event looks like it'll be Valla. Which is too bad because I can't switch from deputy, the sound queues and animations are much easier for me to use.

# ? Nov 20, 2017 23:59

bio347: Oct 29, 2012

Three days ago I got the "Win 3 games" quest and have proceeded to go on a nine game slide. Since I don't think literally any of the last five games featured players who would stick together during lategame, does anyone have any fun suggestions that will make losing more tolerable?

FWIW, I've tried mage Zul'jin already and it just doesn't click.

# ? Nov 21, 2017 00:00

SCtrumpHaters: Oct 28, 2017; by Nyc_Tattoo

apparently performance MMR is coming at the end of the season
http://us.battle.net/heroes/en/blog/21179036/introducing-performance-based-matchmaking-11-17-2017

quote:

What�s Changing and Why:

In our current system, an individual player�s Matchmaking Rating (MMR) is primarily determined by the amount of games that player wins versus how many the player loses. When you win a game, your MMR goes up, while the opposite is true for when you lose. In addition to that basic rule, your MMR will go up more, or less, based on the comparative skill of both yours and the opposite team. If the enemy team has a higher MMR than your team, you�ll gain more points for defeating them and lose less if they win. The opposite applies to enemy teams that have a lower MMR. However, the team-focused nature of Heroes presents challenges when using this system to determine an individual player�s matchmaking rating, since any single player is only 1 part of the 5-man team that won or lost the match. The system works since, all things being equal, a player will win more games than they lose over the long run if their skill is higher than other players at the same rank. However, unless the difference is significant, it can take a significant number of games before the difference in wins vs losses adjusts the player�s MMR enough to match their true skill level.

With performance-based matchmaking, we�re looking to change that. Let�s take a look at how we�re planning to make matchmaking more accurate and better able to recognize individual skill in a team-based game:

How it Works:

Once we introduce performance-based matchmaking in the near future, our system will look at how well the individuals in a match are performing and use this to aid in calculating their MMR adjustments for the match. The system will apply context to these stats by looking at the Hero you�re playing, the Battleground you�re on, the game mode, and what region you�re playing in so it can make fair comparisons against other similarly skilled players under the same conditions. Our goal with this system is not to define a specific playstyle for each hero, since we are never manually setting which stats are considered important, but rather to let our machine-learning driven system define importance and weighting for stats based on millions of games of data. By looking at these stats across the entire player base, the system can see which stats are most important for effective play and create a data-driven model of what the most highly-skilled players are doing in any given situation.

What differentiates a highly skilled player on a given Hero isn�t always obvious, though. For example:

When looking at a Hero like Illidan, it�s pretty straight forward. A good Illidan does a fair amount of damage, soaks a lot of experience, doesn�t die very often, and captures a lot of Mercenary camps. Illidan has a fairly high skill ceiling, though, so we expect there to be a sizeable difference in all of those stats between a highly-skilled Illidan and an average one.
However, for a hero like Kerrigan, the difference in raw stats like damage and experience between a high skill and average skill player isn�t quite as dramatic. Instead, the biggest thing that sets apart a highly skilled Kerrigan is how effective they are in landing crowd control effects, so the system would put a larger emphasis on this stat for Kerrigan players. She�s still being evaluated on all the same stats as every other hero, though, so a Kerrigan who spends the game only attempting to land stuns would not necessarily gain the same amount of MMR, as they would need to also contribute to the game in a meaningful way on top of landing lots of CC.
The system can then use an individual player�s performance to adjust how much MMR the player gains, or loses, for a game. If they�re performing beyond expectations for their current MMR, the system will grant more MMR when they win, subtract less when they lose, and they�ll more quickly arrive at the proper MMR for their skill. The opposite is also true if they�re not performing up to expectations.

FAQ

What is MMR?
MMR stands for Matchmaking Rating. In order for the matchmaker to place similarly skilled players together, it assigns everyone a matchmaking rating that indicates how skilled the system thinks the player is. MMR is a behind-the-scenes stat that is only used for matchmaking.

What if a Hero is updated and the �right� way to play them changes?
The system is fully dynamic and continually updating itself, so it automatically adjusts as balance changes, the meta shifts, and players find creative, new ways to use a hero.

If I perform really well, can I gain MMR while losing the game with this new system?
No. Winning or losing is still the primary factor in whether you gain or lose MMR so you still only gain MMR on a win and lose it on a loss. The performance-based adjustments just affect how much MMR you gain or lose.

Couldn�t you abuse the system by ignoring everything except those few crucial weighted stats?
While some stats are weighted higher than others to reflect their importance in that situation, every stat is evaluated as part of the performance calculation. If you�re focusing entirely on a few stats at the expense of others, your overall performance metric is likely to be lower. Also, you still need to win the game to gain MMR. If you�re maintaining all stats at their normal levels for your level of play, excelling at a few key stats, and winning the game, that means you�re actually doing what�s required to be the most efficient, effective version of your current hero. Good job!

If I�m losing a game, my stats are usually lower already. How does the system avoid double penalizing me for both losing and having lower stats?
The comparisons to determine how well you performed are different for winning games versus losing games.

Will this cause players to intentionally make games take longer so they can pad their stats?
All stat comparisons take game time into account so there�s no advantage for a game that goes long and no disadvantage for one that wraps up quickly.

Who determines which stats are important for any particular situation?
The community does by playing the game. The system doesn�t have any preconceptions about which stats are important. Instead, it is measuring how players are playing in particular situations in order to determine which stats are most important to highly skilled play.
How does the system work for a new hero or after a hero is reworked?
The performance-based aspect of the system will be disabled initially when a new hero launches or after a hero receives a major rework to allow the system to gather the data it needs to make performance comparisons. During this period, the system will effectively work like it used to with MMR adjustment based on win or loss.

This system is affecting my MMR, but how will this translate into my rank in Hero League or Team League?
We�ll be introducing a Performance Adjustment to the amount of rank points you win or lose after a game which mirrors the performance adjustment that was applied to your MMR. This will eventually replace the current Personal Rank Adjustment.

Will this help with smurfing?
We believe this system will go a long way to curbing the issues associated with smurfing since a player who creates a new account to intentionally best players of a lower skill will more quickly find themselves facing players of similar skill.
When is this coming to the game?
Our current plan is to implement performance-based matchmaking in December alongside our next season roll, but we will be sure to update you if anything changes.
Awesome. Anything else I should know?
The system has also shown promising potential to help detect griefing in games since it can more easily determine when someone is intentionally playing poorly. We�ve already used it to confirm reports of players who are doing things like intentionally feeding and hope to be able to automate that detection in the future so problematic players can be dealt with more quickly.

# ? Nov 21, 2017 00:00

lucifirius: Mar 7, 2016

SCtrumpHaters posted:

apparently performance MMR is coming at the end of the season
http://us.battle.net/heroes/en/blog/21179036/introducing-performance-based-matchmaking-11-17-2017

This sounds terrible. Apparently that's how Overwatch does it, how Dota 2 did it, and it's terrible.

# ? Nov 21, 2017 00:19

porfiria: Dec 10, 2008; by Modern Video Games

I mean it's good if it's ungameable and if it actually puts you at your "true" MMR faster. If.

# ? Nov 21, 2017 00:33

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# ? May 17, 2024 02:00

ToastyPotato: Jun 23, 2005; CONVICTED OF DISPLAYING HIS PEANUTS IN PUBLIC

There are plenty of videos and effort posts devoted to how the OW system is/was busted, so hopes aren't too high.

# ? Nov 21, 2017 00:38

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Heroes of the Storm 2.0: Pounded in the butt by my own team comp

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