|
The Gunslinger posted:I think I am kinda bouncing off this game but wanted to check on a few things before I give up: Yeah, there's fast travel in the game. Just mainline the story until you get there. How long it takes for you to give a poo poo varies from person to person. I enjoyed the writing but wasn't really hooked until near the end of the A route, some people don't get hooked until C. Just keep at it. The combat is what it is. There is some depth there, but the game never asks you to engage with it. Just use as many weapons as possible and mix things up as much as possible. It's not necessary, but it might keep things fun at least. Otherwise, you could just push it down to easy and blast through it, that's the common recommendation. E: And if you just don't like the game, that's fine too. Don't force yourself if you're having a bad time.
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2017 20:17
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 09:42 |
|
|
The Gunslinger posted:I think I am kinda bouncing off this game but wanted to check on a few things before I give up: Perhaps something like Call of Duty: WWII might be more your speed.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2017 20:45
|
|
|
i finished bayonetta 3 times and i like Automatas hard difficulty combat/skill slot system more for casual visual spectacle, even if its more shallow and easier to break using the bolted on rpg parts of course i also loved the hacking enough to beat like 400 stages of it without burning out on it and i also cleared like 80% of the side quests before unlocking fast travel and didn't even feel bothered so clearly subjective mileages vary This game very much does not give a gently caress about being everyone's cup of tea (albeit slightly more than previous Nier/Drakengards), so there'll be plenty of people bouncing off for various reasons. That's fine and okay and valid.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2017 20:47
|
|
|
King of Solomon posted:Yeah, there's fast travel in the game. Just mainline the story until you get there. Ok I'll push on a bit and see. I'm not finding the combat difficult at all quite the opposite, the simple mechanics are just kind of boring or they are at least where I'm at in the game.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2017 20:53
|
|
|
The Gunslinger posted:I think I am kinda bouncing off this game but wanted to check on a few things before I give up: I found the combat in NieR: Automata beyond dull, the plot was anime nonsense, I played 80% of the game on easy with minimal human input needed but I still shed a tear at the end and then passed on my copy to a friend to try because it felt special in a way videogames generally don't. In the same way there are people who will watch the Godfather or listen to Pink Floyd and shrug, Nier for all it's perks is not a game that will have that special click with everyone.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2017 21:01
|
|
|
I honestly think the game is just not for you, given how you've described your feelings about the plot so far. It sounds like you want the game to be something it's not.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2017 21:11
|
|
|
CrRoMa posted:I found the combat in NieR: Automata beyond dull, the plot was anime nonsense, I played 80% of the game on easy with minimal human input needed but I still shed a tear at the end and then passed on my copy to a friend to try because it felt special in a way videogames generally don't. In the same way there are people who will watch the Godfather or listen to Pink Floyd and shrug, Nier for all it's perks is not a game that will have that special click with everyone. Hmm ok, that's kind of how I'm feeling about it. Did you have to replay it a bunch of times or was once enough?
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2017 21:19
|
|
|
The Gunslinger posted:Hmm ok, that's kind of how I'm feeling about it. Did you have to replay it a bunch of times or was once enough? Don't want to get overly specific but my playthrough was 25 hours and that was the full "experience", I've seen people quote 50+ hours which is sounds insane but I didn't do many side-quests and essentially had the game play itself for the majority. I've not replayed it at all since finishing it if that's how you meant. In a weird way Nier is a total experience that just doesn't feel right to go back to but that's another story.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2017 21:34
|
|
|
Hikaki posted:I think all those points could be said about Nier 2 as well. Having 2D characters isn't necessarily a bad thing though. I think the interesting thing that these games do is change your perspective on each character. The revelation makes them feel 3D even when they're not. I mean I guess that's kind of true but they (especially Kaine) are just bursting with personality. You could just put Kaine and Weiss in a room together for half and hour and it'd be worth watching because they were written with such caustic chemistry. Automata characters have nothing to say without the plot. Also I do think having 2D characters is a bad thing. 2D protagonists can be gotten away with if they're surrounded by larger than life characters (to paraphrase my old friend Quovak), but you have to have someone who, without the context of the plot, would still be at least interesting to watch.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2017 21:49
|
|
|
The Gunslinger posted:Ok I'll push on a bit and see. I'm not finding the combat difficult at all quite the opposite, the simple mechanics are just kind of boring or they are at least where I'm at in the game. To be clear, when people suggest lowering the difficulty, it isn't because the game is hard; it's because they think it's boring, so they want to get it out of the way as quickly as possible. Also, it's worth mentioning that each major "ending" isn't actually an ending, it's more of a chapter break. You haven't finished the game until you get ending E, because that's the actual ending.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2017 21:54
|
|
|
Glad I looked at this thread before wasting another 2 hours running around the city doing side quests. The lack of fast travel was starting to annoying me too. I will say that this game starts off REALLY dull for all the praise it gets. The entirety of my experience so far has been fighting the games lack of auto save (lost 45 minutes thanks to a hard crash!) and rolling my eyes at the plot. The game is EXTREMELY heavy handed with what it's going for early on (I'm sure there will be more twists and turns, though. Still, I dont know how many of the following exchange I can sit through without groaning. 2B: "Robots are not people!!!!" *robot does an incredibly human-like thing, game winks at you* One thing that has lived up to the hype is the music; some of the music is incredible
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2017 22:17
|
|
|
Paul Zuvella posted:Glad I looked at this thread before wasting another 2 hours running around the city doing side quests. The lack of fast travel was starting to annoying me too. It does not deserve the hype. It doesn't get better, and as mentioned above the combat is super tedious.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2017 23:54
|
|
|
Paul Zuvella posted:Glad I looked at this thread before wasting another 2 hours running around the city doing side quests. The lack of fast travel was starting to annoying me too. It was kind of surprising when I played how fast they pulled back the curtain on that bit. It doesn't spend too long staying in the state of "OR ARE THEY?" Which, you know, is just good structure, but most games spend so much time delaying obvious reveals I expected more time spent in "maybe machines are people too." to the point of tedium.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2017 23:55
|
|
|
chiasaur11 posted:It was kind of surprising when I played how fast they pulled back the curtain on that bit. It doesn't spend too long staying in the state of "OR ARE THEY?" It fairly quickly shifts from "maybe machines are people" into "machines are people but why do our protagonists refuse to recognize it". If you don't recognize that the question has shifted it feels really tedious
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2017 00:06
|
|
|
Paul Zuvella posted:2B: "Robots are not people!!!!" The robots are people thing is just a setup for the real twist, which is the opposite: it's not that robots are human, it's that the protagonists are perhaps not as human as they thought they were. As for the hype that Nier gets: most games have a singular focus. You wouldn't expect a story game like Heavy Rain to have great gameplay, or a gameplay game like Mario Odyssey to have a great story. Nier is special because it is an emotion game, and as far as I know it is the only of its kind. So things like the anime nonsense story and the dull, sometimes obtuse gameplay are not really the point and are only there for support. The unfortunate thing is that not everyone responds emotionally to the same things, but for those whom Nier successfully reached, the hype is absolutely real and true.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2017 00:42
|
|
|
Without spoiling anything, just remember that Yoko Taro is the master of sleight of hand twists, where he distracts with with something you blatantly can't look away from so you don't see what he's sneaking under your nose.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2017 00:55
|
|
Cymbal Monkey posted:It does not deserve the hype. It doesn't get better, and as mentioned above the combat is super tedious. OTOH I found the combat kind of relaxing without being too tedious, and it's pretty easily my GOTY with only P5 and Yakuza Zero really coming close.
|
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2017 01:19
|
|
|
The machines having minds of their own is not meant to be a twist. Anyone that played the first Nier would have instantly questioned them being mindless so Yoko Taro didn't even bother trying to hide that, not even in the pre-release stuff.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2017 05:46
|
|
|
”The enemy critters are people” and ”humans are dead” are total anti-twists for anybody who played Nier and I love them for it.Hikaki posted:The robots are people thing is just a setup for the real twist, which is the opposite: it's not that robots are human, it's that the protagonists are perhaps not as human as they thought they were. Hey I actually totally agree. Nier games pretty much bank on atmosphere and emotion first and foremost. Hence why the narrative isn’t nearly always backed by well thought out details because that’s not the kind of a story it tried to tell. If anything it reminds me of a Kojima game because the style of bending the narrative for the sake of driving a theme is pretty similar. When playing these games it’s best to think ”what does the scene currently playing out make me feel” rather than ”how does this make sense”. Like you’ll ask ”why are these buildings standing so far into the future” and someone might give you an excuse but the real reason is the environment is designed to evoke a certain kind of feeling. It’s as simple as that
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2017 07:22
|
|
|
Nina posted:When playing these games it’s best to think ”what does the scene currently playing out make me feel” rather than ”how does this make sense”. I love how the game itself is very aware of this. There's a cutscene during route B where Eve asks Adam why he has to read books when he can just download it straight into his brain. Adam says something like, "yes you can download it into your head, but not your heart". That is Taro telling you loud and clear that the story by itself is not what matters in this game. One other thing I like about the robots are people theme: each group of robots have their own "treasure" that they believe will make them more human. They are so into their own respective treasures that it seems kind of silly. It feels like the game is saying that they're all wrong and that eventually a treasure will be introduced that is the "right" answer. The answer ends up being that the connections formed between beings make them human. Turns out this makes every robot group right because they all form connections to each other in pursuit of their treasure. The only wrong answer was Adam's hate, because not only did he pursue it alone, he left behind Eve, his only meaningful connection in the world. Hikaki fucked around with this message at 07:45 on Nov 21, 2017 |
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2017 07:32
|
|
|
Tarezax posted:It fairly quickly shifts from "maybe machines are people" into "machines are people but why do our protagonists refuse to recognize it". If you don't recognize that the question has shifted it feels really tedious They don't recognise it until suddenly they spin around so quickly it gives them whiplash and suddenly they do but then they don't again and it's a mess, because their motives are driven by the plot rather than the other way around. One of my biggest problems with the writing was that their stance on machine genocide seems to change with the weather. Cymbal Monkey fucked around with this message at 13:00 on Nov 21, 2017 |
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2017 12:57
|
|
|
Cymbal Monkey posted:One of my biggest problems with the writing was that their stance on machine genocide seems to change with the weather. It's realistic, though. Relevant article: How One Man Convinced 200 Ku Klux Klan Members To Give Up Their Robes quote:Initially, they feel that if you're not white, you are inferior. [They believe] that black people have smaller brains, we're incapable of higher achievement. I'll give you an example of one. This guy was an exalted cyclops sitting in my car in my passenger seat. He made the statement, which I'd heard before, "Well we all know that all black people have within them a gene that makes them violent." I turned to him and I'm driving and I said, "Wait a minute. I'm as black as anybody you've ever seen. I have never done a carjacking or a driveby, how do you explain that?" He didn't even pause to think about it. He said, "Your gene is latent. It hasn't come out yet." For the record, an "exalted cyclops" is the head of a local klan, approximately the equivalent of a store manager in a corporate hierarchy. So you've got this incredibly racist white guy who is friendly enough with a black guy to ride in a car with him and have something of an agreeable conversation, and he still thinks black people have inferior brains and that there's something inherently violent to their nature. Here's the thing: that kind of lifetime-accumulated weapons-grade prejudice doesn't fall off all in one piece. It's chipped at over time, and every once in a while, the chisel of truth makes a dent and a chunk of it crumbles away. Time elapsed between "huh, maybe black people don't have a violence gene after all" and "yikes, better leave the KKK": five months. So 2B and 9S seem to have inconsistent attitudes towards the machines? Well, yeah, they would. They've been fed YoRHa propaganda about exterminating machines literally since the moment of their birth, and they spend all their time either preparing for war or actually fighting. The whole deal with machines maybe having actual emotions and Pascal's tribe being pacifistic is causing massive cognitive dissonance, and dealing with that takes time and can be incredible difficult, as each ingrained idea and notion has to be confronted with a new reality and perspective, and every step brings a colossal amount of discomfort vis-à-vis "what else have I been wrong about all this time". And on top of everything, they're part of a military organization that will send assassins after them if they stray from their mission, so they have to deal with all of that stuff completely internally, while giving the outward appearance of sticking with their original opinion. And that's not even mentioning guilt management for their campaign of genocide: their "racism" isn't just a casus belli, it's also a psychological defense mechanism. Everything points to our protagonists changing their minds in fits and starts, with a step backward for every two steps forward. I can't find it in myself to have a problem with how it's been presented. FrankZP fucked around with this message at 14:43 on Nov 21, 2017 |
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2017 14:30
|
|
|
That story sounds like 100% bullshit. It'd be nice if it happened but it seems extremely unlikely. Edit: To be clear, I'm not just saying that that conversation sounds made up. A Klan leader casually getting into a vehicle being driven by a very black man and having a cordial conversation with him doesn't sound like reality. ...! fucked around with this message at 15:16 on Nov 21, 2017 |
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2017 15:07
|
|
|
...! posted:That story sounds like 100% bullshit. It'd be nice if it happened but it seems extremely unlikely. Did you click the article? This isn't something undocumented- this guy has been doing this and talking about it for a long time. What makes you go oh he must be lying based on literally nothing?
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2017 15:41
|
|
|
Regy Rusty posted:Did you click the article? This isn't something undocumented- this guy has been doing this and talking about it for a long time. What makes you go oh he must be lying based on literally nothing? Must be genes.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2017 16:00
|
|
|
My opinion on 2B and 9S's relationship is that theirs is the story of a tragic love. A deep love. A love that crushes... like a mace.
|
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2017 20:41
|
|
|
I think that part of the flip-flopping is that 9S is there to spy on the machines all day every day. He's been conditioned to show no empathy and furiously insist that they aren't alive, while still being fascinated by everything they do. 2B isn't expected to have contact with them beyond kill or be killed so while she wasn't particularly force fed the no-sympathasing handbook, she isn't massively curious about the issue either (at first). Strategic Tea fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Nov 21, 2017 |
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2017 21:16
|
|
|
I got to the end of Route A and feel like I didn't learn anything?
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 03:18
|
|
|
Paul Zuvella posted:I got to the end of Route A and feel like I didn't learn anything? Pretty much. Keep going, Route B's sidequests tend to be more interesting A lot of people bumrush the main plot in this game and I think that's a mistake. All of the sidequests are thematically relevant and a good number of them have some plot significance as well. Plus they helped make Route B feel like less of a retread, because I was seeing new things via the sidequests
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 03:24
|
|
|
On the other hand, you should bumrush the main plot if you feel like you're getting bored. Better to actually finish the game than get sick of it and quit because you spent too much time doing sidequests.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 03:28
|
|
|
You’ve gotta marathon story missions so you can get enough XP to help those robots have their parade.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 03:41
|
|
|
Roach Warehouse posted:You’ve gotta marathon story missions so you can get enough XP to help those robots have their parade. Wave those flags that the robots made.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 04:03
|
|
|
Hikaki posted:On the other hand, you should bumrush the main plot if you feel like you're getting bored. Better to actually finish the game than get sick of it and quit because you spent too much time doing sidequests. 100% this. By all means pick up the sidequests as you find them but if you hit a point where you're like "i don't feel like doing that" then drop it and go back to the main story. This game isn't anywhere close to Nier 1 levels of "the sidequests are here to punish you", most are actually fun, but please don't feel compelled to clear them all before continuing the plot if you're not enjoying them. And yeah, Ending A isn't really a complete ending, you have a lot of stuff left to see from the main quest.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 04:32
|
|
|
Yeah don't do any sidequests at all if you don't feel like it. While they help with the themes of the game they aren't overall necessary and there are way too many of them to worry about doing all of them.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2017 04:52
|
|
|
Saagonsa posted:Yeah don't do any sidequests at all if you don't feel like it. While they help with the themes of the game they aren't overall necessary and there are way too many of them to worry about doing all of them. I feel like doing the red hood quest is important for understanding later revelations.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2017 19:51
|
|
|
Just look up any cutscenes on Youtube if you don't want to do the sidequests. The plot content is relevant but so many of the sidequests are just fetching junk from levels you've already been to.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2017 20:45
|
|
|
This is still my GOTY by far (way above even Zelda and Mario) and one of my top 3 of all time (first NieR is number 5). It's pretty rare for a game to resonate with me as hard as this one did. I loved it in route A and just grew to love it even more in B and C. Also don't skip sidequests, they're hardly as rough as anything in the first game outside of like scanning the desert for artifacts.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2017 23:18
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/ToastCrust/status/933222530222931968 https://twitter.com/ToastCrust/status/933224573662662656 i would like to point out the fact that yoko taro freaking rules
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2017 11:19
|
|
|
RubberLuffy posted:This is still my GOTY by far (way above even Zelda and Mario) and one of my top 3 of all time (first NieR is number 5). Automata is a much better game but I still can't help but have more fondness for the original Nier for the novelty of doing it all first. I just tend to like weird games more than I like "good" games.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2017 11:50
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 09:42 |
|
|
Paul Zuvella posted:Glad I looked at this thread before wasting another 2 hours running around the city doing side quests. The lack of fast travel was starting to annoying me too. Hikaki posted:As for the hype that Nier gets: most games have a singular focus. You wouldn't expect a story game like Heavy Rain to have great gameplay, or a gameplay game like Mario Odyssey to have a great story. Nier is special because it is an emotion game, and as far as I know it is the only of its kind. So things like the anime nonsense story and the dull, sometimes obtuse gameplay are not really the point and are only there for support. The unfortunate thing is that not everyone responds emotionally to the same things, but for those whom Nier successfully reached, the hype is absolutely real and true. Also it's weird to me that people are saying that that the robots are people when the whole point is them attempting to ape it and failing miserably because they will never be that and are fundamentally incapable of it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2017 16:35
|
|