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it's easy to imagine the guy photoshopping Einstein quotes onto stock photos of waves on the beach for your spinster aunt's inspirational calendar just does it for easy money and has actual interests outside work, but Gavin is laboring for hours over every page of this poo poo in his free time, it's his insipid magnum opus
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Nov 21, 2017 16:03
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I'm sorry, but when you take "if you're going to do something, do it all the way" and interpret it as "if you watch Game of Thrones, abandon your family to go LARPing the forest and maybe you'll find out that dragons are real", the stupidity is not in the source quote, it's in you.
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Nov 21, 2017 16:48
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Cat Mattress posted:I'm sorry, but when you take "if you're going to do something, do it all the way" and interpret it as "if you watch Game of Thrones, abandon your family to go LARPing the forest and maybe you'll find out that dragons are real", the stupidity is not in the source quote, it's in you. Reminder: not only was this a thing, you can go a few pages in either direction and find a page that has exactly the opposite lesson. The sublime beauty of Zen Pencils is that it's dumber than the sum of its parts.
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Nov 21, 2017 16:59
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Cat Mattress posted:I'm sorry, but when you take "if you're going to do something, do it all the way" and interpret it as "if you watch Game of Thrones, abandon your family to go LARPing the forest and maybe you'll find out that dragons are real", the stupidity is not in the source quote, it's in you. quote:“If you're going to try, go all the way. Otherwise, don't even start. This could mean losing girlfriends, wives, relatives and maybe even your mind. It could mean not eating for three or four days. It could mean freezing on a park bench. It could mean jail. It could mean derision. It could mean mockery--isolation. Isolation is the gift. All the others are a test of your endurance, of how much you really want to do it. And, you'll do it, despite rejection and the worst odds. And it will be better than anything else you can imagine. If you're going to try, go all the way. There is no other feeling like that. You will be alone with the gods, and the nights will flame with fire. You will ride life straight to perfect laughter. It's the only good fight there is.” Yeah no. The original quote is super dumb. There's no way to interpret "go commit crimes, also being isolated from everyone is AWESOME and THE ONLY WAY TO LIVE" in a way that isn't terrible. EDIT: The original context is literally the author justifying (using his self-insert character) his alcoholism. Fangz fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Nov 21, 2017 |
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Nov 21, 2017 17:05
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I like linking to Chainsawsuit whenever Zen Pencils rears its dumb face.
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Nov 21, 2017 17:22
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oh yes oh god yes form the head FORM THE HEAD unghhhh...
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I am a lot more sympathetic towards the gently caress The Haters POV these days. Accept and solicit criticism from worthwhile people. The General Public is too toxic for it to be worthwhile to engage with, these days, on the off chance there's something constructive. Advice that suggests artists read the comments is just Bad Advice. Checked that comic, and yup quote:Comments for this thread are now closed. Fangz fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Nov 21, 2017 |
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Nov 21, 2017 17:29
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there's a vast gulf between "don't listen to the average idiot/read the comments" and "im going to draw a comic about miyazaki piloting a giant robot to attack the personification of people who rightfully think my work's pretty dumb and bad"
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Nov 21, 2017 17:33
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Tollymain posted:there's a vast gulf between "don't listen to the average idiot/read the comments" and "im going to draw a comic about miyazaki piloting a giant robot to attack the personification of people who rightfully think my work's pretty dumb and bad" Then don't link to a privileged white guy saying "artists have to read the comments".
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Nov 21, 2017 17:34
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a) thats not me and b) i dont think this has much to do with privilege in this case, zen pencils man strikes me as just being that kind of dumb and thinskinned
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Nov 21, 2017 17:42
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Tollymain posted:a) thats not me and b) i dont think this has much to do with privilege in this case, zen pencils man strikes me as just being that kind of dumb and thinskinned It has absolutely a lot to do with privilege. It's easy to make a #notallcriticism comic claiming criticism comes from a place of love, self-reflection is always good, even if you feel wounded accept the haters instead of seeking catharsis, when you have never confronted critics who question your right to exist.
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Nov 21, 2017 17:46
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ive seen a lot of comic artists and otherwise say "don't read the comments." many of them are queer women, if we want to pull privilege into this. somehow, none of them have had a meltdown and posted a long visual screed about destroying their haters w a giant robot
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Nov 21, 2017 17:46
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Tollymain posted:ive seen a lot of comic artists and otherwise say "don't read the comments." many of them are queer women, if we want to pull privilege into this. somehow, none of them have had a meltdown and posted a long visual screed about destroying their haters w a giant robot Some of them have retweeted it though.
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Nov 21, 2017 17:47
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Remember when somebody would invariably link to that one Pictures For Sad Children comic about The Singularity in the comments of Dresden Codak reviews?
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Nov 21, 2017 17:49
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maybe you follow people with bad taste then
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Nov 21, 2017 17:50
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Maybe I just don't follow assholes.
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Nov 21, 2017 17:51
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It still makes me sad how the PfSC guy went crazy and burned his books. 
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Nov 21, 2017 17:53
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They should have read more internet comments, that would have helped
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Nov 21, 2017 17:54
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Fangz posted:Maybe I just don't follow assholes. 
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Nov 21, 2017 17:57
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Fangz posted:Maybe I just don't follow assholes. okay so i was going to bow out of this conversation but this post is baffling me are you saying that the artists i follow who have a poor opinion of zen pencils due to its questionable artistic value and the author being a thin-skinned weirdo are specifically assholes for not appreciating the greatness of his work, or are you just calling me an rear end in a top hat in a weird roundabout way because im saying the man who makes zen pencils is a a thin-skinned weirdo who doesn't make good art
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Nov 21, 2017 17:58
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Fangz posted:I enjoy the sense of satisfaction I get whenever I receive confirmation one of the people I put on ignore years ago is still a piece of poo poo.
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Nov 21, 2017 18:00
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Fangz posted:Yeah no. The original quote is super dumb. There's no way to interpret "go commit crimes, also being isolated from everyone is AWESOME and THE ONLY WAY TO LIVE" in a way that isn't terrible. It's still not about trying to watch Game of Thrones by going full Chris McCandless. Though I suppose GoT fans going full Chris McCandless is a form of social darwinism.
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Nov 21, 2017 18:03
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please dont driveby in this extremely important argument about bad webcomics pmush
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Nov 21, 2017 18:04
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IronSaber posted:It still makes me sad how the PfSC guy went crazy and burned his books. PfSC was very, very good and I hope that The Person Formerly Known as John Campbell is in a better place these days, mentally.  I think about this one every time I see a commercial for Google Home/Alexa/whatever
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Nov 21, 2017 18:06
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Tollymain posted:okay so i was going to bow out of this conversation but this post is baffling me I am saying that it's arseholish to share around negativity of a comic you have no love for and read only to hate on and mock. So if the people you follow commonly talk about how much they hate zen pencils, a comic they can just ignore, then in that aspect they are arseholes. The exception is when it comes to comics that are harmful, like the comic that is originally mentioned about child abuse, but again it's a toxic and bad behaviour in general to seek out *bad things* and share it with your 'friends'. It's just generally not good behaviour to be obsessed with hating someone. Like the Kris Straub comic might have a point about 'some criticism comes from love', but this is unequivocally hate. EDIT: and yes, this is exactly the sort of behaviour I ignore and block people for, because gently caress having to deal with More Bad Things in this, 2017. EDIT: VVV right, but it's not true that every comic he does is him directly advocating a thing. Fangz fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Nov 21, 2017 |
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Nov 21, 2017 18:06
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Fangz posted:Honestly I find that Zen Pencils gets an unfairly bad rap a bunch of the time because most of the stupidity is inherited from the source material It's entirely his decision to do the motivational posters in comic form thing and what quotes he chooses.
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Nov 21, 2017 18:07
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see, what you're describing is the bad webcomics thread culture here, and not a circle of people who generally have better things to do than talk about zen pencils but have a low opinion of it when it does come up i mean, personally, this is the most words ive devoted to zen pencils in literal years. were it not already the topic, and were your opinions not kind of weird, i would have probably gone a couple more years without having anything to say about it
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Nov 21, 2017 18:11
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http://kateordiecomics.com/archive/dont-be-a-dick/ I follow Kate btw. She's not an arsehole. Tollymain posted:see, what you're describing is the bad webcomics thread culture here, and not a circle of people who generally have better things to do than talk about zen pencils but have a low opinion of it when it does come up Okay, cool. I'm kinda unfairly putting you all in one blob here. It just peeved me off when people started unleashing from their HEY THIS IS MY STANDARD RESPONSE TO THIS ARTIST arsenals. I'm not saying you have to like zenpencils, it's not like my opinion of him is even very high. Fangz fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Nov 21, 2017 |
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Nov 21, 2017 18:11
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My opinion of Zen Pencils is that Dril Pencils retroactively justifies its existence.
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Nov 21, 2017 18:16
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My favorite Zen Pencils is the one where it's a woman wrestling to an inspirational quote from the Ultimate Warrior but in every panel the quote has been replaced with something atrociously racist and homophobic he said
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Nov 21, 2017 18:21
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pictures for sad children was one of the few good comics
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Nov 21, 2017 18:23
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Fangz posted:http://kateordiecomics.com/archive/dont-be-a-dick/ I hate to be the one to inform you of this, but people on this forum like to poo poo on and make fun of things they don't like when the topic comes up.
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Nov 21, 2017 18:25
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Mors Rattus posted:I hate to be the one to inform you of this, but people on this forum like to poo poo on and make fun of things they don't like when the topic comes up. No poo poo. There's why most artists have left.
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Nov 21, 2017 18:27
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ZP is bad and making GBS threads on it is usually the only commentary it deserves, but it only even gets mentioned here when something really notably awful like that last comic comes out. Or something amazing like dril pencils. Also the artists that left over stuff being poo poo on have mostly been thin skinned assholes like the Sarah Zero guy. Evrart Claire fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Nov 21, 2017 |
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Nov 21, 2017 18:39
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Zerilan posted:ZP is bad and making GBS threads on it is usually the only commentary it deserves, but it only even gets mentioned here when something really notably awful like that last comic comes out. Or something amazing like dril pencils. It just bothers me that I seem to be the only one who actually read the comic that was linked and saw the *actual issue* with it, whereas the entire rest of the conversation revolved around how bad that creator is as a person based on bad comics he posted years ago that have been endlessly discussed. When I pointed out the victim blaming thing, literally no one cared except for the initial statement I put about personally hating zenpencil less usually. Come the gently caress on, thread. quote:Also the artists that left over stuff being poo poo on have mostly been thin skinned assholes like the Sarah Zero guy. Really. Okay, put your hands up if you are in the list of 'goon made comics' in the OP and you still read this thread. Fangz fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Nov 21, 2017 |
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Nov 21, 2017 18:43
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Fangz posted:It just bothers me that I seem to be the only one who actually read the comic that was linked and saw the *actual issue* with it, whereas the entire rest of the conversation revolved around how bad that creator is as a person based on bad comics he posted years ago that have been endlessly discussed. When I pointed out the victim blaming thing, literally no one cared except for the initial statement I put about personally hating zenpencil less usually. You are projecting kind of hard here I'm pretty sure the vast majority of the comments about it, including my own, was The loving Why Because there is A LOT wrong with this comic. Victim blaming, general art, the implications of how to solve your own issues, the general grossness of the entire set up, the choice of quotes, the subject matter You are not the only one and any time you have the idea in your head that you ARE the only one, you are almost assuredly wrong. In this instance, most of us didn't even comment on the person himself. Only a very select few did.
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Nov 21, 2017 18:48
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Fangz posted:Really. Okay, put your hands up if you are in the list of 'goon made comics' in the OP and you still read this thread. v  v
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Nov 21, 2017 18:53
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Nuebot posted:I think this is just what the zen pencils guy gets off on. He also had a comic about a kid murdering his bullies with a hammer. Samuringa posted:Somehow it'll turn into a way for the artist to talk about how great it is to give up on a career to pursue your dreams A Wizard of Goatse posted:his whole thing is taking quotes from some Barnes and Noble Book Of Memorable Quotes and adding imagery he thinks is "cool" around them, which tends to be about as profoundly thought out as you'd expect from a guy who does that for years A Wizard of Goatse posted:it's easy to imagine the guy photoshopping Einstein quotes onto stock photos of waves on the beach for your spinster aunt's inspirational calendar just does it for easy money and has actual interests outside work, but Gavin is laboring for hours over every page of this poo poo in his free time, it's his insipid magnum opus IronSaber posted:I like linking to Chainsawsuit whenever Zen Pencils rears its dumb face.
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Nov 21, 2017 18:55
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You may want to take a step back, relax, and consider if this is really a hill you want to die on, or if perhaps your life may be improved by doing something else.
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Nov 21, 2017 18:56
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Fangz posted:The point of the comic isn't "murder rocks", it's "tell someone, or it'll escalate to murder". That's a very generous (and likely accurate) reading, but given the guy's history, yeah...
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Nov 21, 2017 18:56
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Mors Rattus posted:You may want to take a step back, relax, and consider if this is really a hill you want to die on, or if perhaps your life may be improved by doing something else. I thought I'm supposed to offer constructive criticism from my place of love so you can all self reflect and improve your posts?
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Nov 21, 2017 18:57
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