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I would be fine of season two involved another super.
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Nov 21, 2017 17:55
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moths posted:That makes sense - I think what threw me was the detective calling it hers in the debriefing. She corrects him right after that, saying it's technically not her gun.
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Nov 21, 2017 18:04
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What was cool about this season was that Frank Castle has definitely watched Princess Bride. He got the "to the pain" duel completely and utterly correct.
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Nov 21, 2017 18:05
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Punisher season two will probably be Jigsaw, I think. The one time Frank doesn't kill a guy... I think my top picks for a season two villain who isn't Jigsaw would be The Rev (I could see a Charles Manson take being really creepy and effective, and fit right into the tone of the Punisher so far) or Johnny Nightmare. Ma Gnucci could also be fun - the mobsters Frank kills at the end of episode one are noted to be Gnuccis, and one says that the Gnuccis have risen to power in the NYC underworld after the Kingpin was thrown in prison. Though I don't think the Gnuccis could carry an entire season on their own.
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Nov 21, 2017 18:16
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Punisher vs gangsters would be kind of boring.
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Nov 21, 2017 18:24
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If season 2 has any sense it’ll carry on the idea of the long-term echoes of violence from this one, just giving a new take on it. I guess the Gnuccis could come into that if it was less “Punisher mows through the mob” and more “Punisher meets the Sopranos” Though if they start next season with a shot-for-shot rendition of the World War Three in North Jersey scene from the beginning of MAX... I mean, I hate to just ask them to film Ennis scenes but it could be incredible. War Zone’s version of that was just... lame.
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Nov 21, 2017 18:36
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Cythereal posted:Punisher season two will probably be Jigsaw, I think. The one time Frank doesn't kill a guy...
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Nov 21, 2017 18:47
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Jigsaw hooking up with the Gnucci family would be low hanging fruit, but could also be fun. I just hope they don't keep mining the Cerberus angle.
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Nov 21, 2017 18:49
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One villain I'd like to see but I think would probably be a terrible idea is an adaptation of Saracen. A man just like Frank, whose family Frank killed in Afghanistan. I like the idea of Frank meeting his equal, who behaves in exactly the same way for exactly the same reasons, and the show acknowledging that these two men really are the same. But I think using a version of Saracen would risk being very racist and very politically uncomfortable.
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Nov 21, 2017 18:57
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They should stick with DDS2 Frank -- at odds with both the hero and the villain of other series. Jigsaw as an antagonist for Daredevil or Luke Cage makes the most sense.
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Nov 21, 2017 19:11
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Season 2 of Punisher should be Frank taking on The Hand, Stick, Iron Fist and Elektra. Kidding, obviously, but I wouldn't mind a further tie in to DD, especially if DDs3 gives us Bullseye because I think a triangulation with him, Fisk and DD could be pretty sweet. You could retcon Bullseye and make him an elite sniper from Frank's team or something and then follow through on the the very cool table setting that DDs2 did with Wilson and Frank in prison. Expand on that. There may be a way to make room for Elektra and Nuke in there too if it were done sparingly. Anyone else notice that the less mystical and more grounded the Netflix shows are, the better they've been?
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Nov 21, 2017 19:20
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Ugh, please, no more Hand, no more Stick, no more Elektra. I think Frank should be kept in his own little world, only occasionally intersecting with the Defenders. Frank worked in Daredevil because Daredevil's central theme is the concept of justice and the question of what justice is and how it should be obtained. Frank presented a useful contrary viewpoint to Matt there. But what does Frank have to say about a show with a theme of abuse, particularly sexual abuse and getting through it? Or a show that asks the question what a gifted person should use their gifts for. I could kind of see it with Luke Cage, since that show's theme is one of community and peoples' relationships with it, but I don't know if Frank and Luke would have much potential for interesting interaction.
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Nov 21, 2017 19:27
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I'm a fan of the mystical stuff in the comics, but it definitely works better when it's consistent - which the Netflix shows have had problems maintaining.
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Nov 21, 2017 19:30
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Arist posted:There are no references to Defenders in Punisher. I don't think I caught any Marvel references at all to be honest. BiggerBoat posted:Anyone else notice that the less mystical and more grounded the Netflix shows are, the better they've been? I think they're just doing it badly. The magic stuff in the first season of DD with the undead ninjas and Gao were pretty good.
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Nov 21, 2017 19:32
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Cythereal posted:Ugh, please, no more Hand, no more Stick, no more Elektra. I think Frank should be kept in his own little world, only occasionally intersecting with the Defenders. Frank worked in Daredevil because Daredevil's central theme is the concept of justice and the question of what justice is and how it should be obtained. Frank presented a useful contrary viewpoint to Matt there. But what does Frank have to say about a show with a theme of abuse, particularly sexual abuse and getting through it? Or a show that asks the question what a gifted person should use their gifts for. I could kind of see it with Luke Cage, since that show's theme is one of community and peoples' relationships with it, but I don't know if Frank and Luke would have much potential for interesting interaction. Frank and Luke would have different ideas about how to resolve gang violence in a community; also, bullets man vs. no bullets man. I don't think Frank has anything to offer Iron Fist other than insults, but I would be on board with one scene of that in a future Defenders. A fight between untrained-but-strong Jessica Jones and an unarmed Castle would be a reasonable match, and in terms of private investigation, Micro with and against Jessica Jones could be good.
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Nov 21, 2017 19:35
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Cythereal posted:Ugh, please, no more Hand, no more Stick, no more Elektra. I was joking about that, dude. Yes, that would suck bad. Weaving Fisk into Frank's world has shown it can work really well though. ^^^edit^^^ what are Jessica Jones powers supposed to be anyway? I still can't figure them out. She threw a lot of people so she's good at that.
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Nov 21, 2017 19:55
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BiggerBoat posted:I was joking about that, dude. Yes, that would suck bad. Weaving Fisk into Frank's world has shown it can work really well though. She is very strong
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Nov 21, 2017 20:16
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If they keep up going against the mic i wouldn't be surprised if barracuda is the antagonist for s2 or 3 and kills micro and his family and/or Karen
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Nov 21, 2017 20:19
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BSam posted:There a thread yet? I want to post somewhere that i think amy acker is being typecast as Marvel mutant mother, but apparently it's not her it's a different actress? Was going to start one, but I don't think I can actually make a thread using the phone app? Anyway it was a really good first three episodes. Bit wary about the supposed lack of magic, though if the Staff of One is just super tech in this at least it still seems to function like magic. And if Karolina isn't an alien that will be kind of lame, especially if we're losing magic and for obvious reasons Molly can't be a mutant. Casting for all the kids and 'rents is great, though, and the showrunners have done a good job padding it out some. If they did the first arc just as is it would be like a four episode season. I hope they deviate from the comics entirely when they're done Vaughan's original run. Whedon's was so bad I stopped reading it.
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Nov 21, 2017 20:30
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Are they following the Netflix model of release (all episodes), CBS model of weekly eps like the new ST, or hybrid Amazon is using with the Tick (1/2 now, 1/2 later)
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Nov 21, 2017 20:38
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They did three for the premiere, then one episode a week after that, I think. Ten episodes and it airs til January, afaik.
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Nov 21, 2017 20:49
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What I hated about the Punisher series is that the plot only concerns characters and events that happened before Frank Castle was The Punisher. The only person who gave a poo poo about The Punisher as an entity was the Timothy McVeigh guy (who was the worst part of the series, but whatever), to absolutely everyone else he was Frank Castle answering for Frank Castle stuff and fighting Frank Castle's enemies. I loved the first episode with its big punishment moment and Gnucci killing, then the rest felt detached from the character, like it coulda been any story about a haunted soldier killing people. It was fine, but I wasn't very invested.
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Nov 21, 2017 20:50
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Fiendly posted:What I hated about the Punisher series is that the plot only concerns characters and events that happened before Frank Castle was The Punisher. The only person who gave a poo poo about The Punisher as an entity was the Timothy McVeigh guy (who was the worst part of the series, but whatever), to absolutely everyone else he was Frank Castle answering for Frank Castle stuff and fighting Frank Castle's enemies. I loved the first episode with its big punishment moment and Gnucci killing, then the rest felt detached from the character, like it coulda been any story about a haunted soldier killing people. It was fine, but I wasn't very invested. Were you not aware that The Punisher is a haunted soldier killing people?
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Nov 21, 2017 20:56
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Personal preference, but I liked that Frank didn't wear the costume much. It looks kinda silly, and it was used very effectively in this show as a visual shorthand for "Holy poo poo Frank is loving pissed." When he puts that vest on, lots of people are about to die.
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Nov 21, 2017 20:59
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Alexeythegreat posted:She is very strong She can also fly, but she is really bad at it and hates doing it.
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Nov 21, 2017 21:11
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I'm not feeling the little sub villains Marvel keeps tossing into every show. JJ had Nuke, This had Lewis, LC had Diamondback, tho I suppose he's technically the main villain, and I would enjoy each show more without them, otherwise it was good.
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Nov 21, 2017 21:38
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4000 Dollar Suit posted:I'm not feeling the little sub villains Marvel keeps tossing into every show. JJ had Nuke, This had Lewis, LC had Diamondback, tho I suppose he's technically the main villain, and I would enjoy each show more without them, otherwise it was good. I didn't see Lewis as a sub-villain, but more as an exploration of the themes of the show.
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Nov 21, 2017 21:47
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Samizdata posted:I didn't see Lewis as a sub-villain, but more as an exploration of the themes of the show. Yeah, I see Lewis as "You want a guy who acts like the stereotypical Punisher? Here you loving go, he's a bad guy and Frank Castle rightly wants to stop him."
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Nov 21, 2017 21:52
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Seemed pretty obvious to me that Lewis was an exploration of the radicalization of vets into spree killers that happens multiple times a year nowadays
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Nov 21, 2017 21:58
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This show also manages to be good despite employing “we’re the same” not once, not twice, but THRICE in its 13 episodes. I really feel like someone has gotta be getting it all out of their system.
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Nov 21, 2017 22:04
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Cythereal posted:This plot about using the corpses of dead soldiers in Afghanistan as vessels to covertly ship heroin back to the states is literally straight out of a Tom Clancy novel. Someone on this staff loved Without Remorse, which featured this exact plot only about Vietnam instead. They could have been inspired by real life as well. NYC drug kingpin Frank Lucas (the guy Denzel played in American Gangster) did ship drugs into the US from Vietnam using dead soldiers. Except I guess he was respectful enough to put it in secret coffin compartments and not their actual corpses: Frank Lucas posted:We did it, all right...ha, ha, ha... Who the hell is gonna look in a dead soldier's coffin? Ha ha ha. . . .We had him make up 28 copies of the government coffins . . . except we fixed them up with false bottoms, big enough to load up with six, maybe eight kilos . . . It had to be snug. You couldn't have poo poo sliding around. Ike was very smart, because he made sure we used heavy guys' coffins. He didn't put them in no skinny guy's . . ."
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Nov 21, 2017 22:08
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They're both acting outside the law to kill people for a greater good, though. In a certain light, they ARE both the same - which hits a nerve and is probably why Frank reacts so severely.
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Nov 21, 2017 22:08
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Castor Poe posted:Take a shot every time Frank says "Attaboy" or "Attagirl".
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Nov 21, 2017 22:09
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Cythereal posted:Yeah, I see Lewis as "You want a guy who acts like the stereotypical Punisher? Here you loving go, he's a bad guy and Frank Castle rightly wants to stop him." site posted:Seemed pretty obvious to me that Lewis was an exploration of the radicalization of vets into spree killers that happens multiple times a year nowadays As well as an exploration of the fact that we send young people without a lot of experience into a world of strict regimentation and violence and possibly traumatic experiences then send them right back into the "normal" world with little or no assistance for leaving what, in most cases, is a majority of their life doing things the "normal" world just will not tolerate.
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Nov 21, 2017 22:11
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I dunno how old that Clancy book is but smuggling heroin through dead gis to fund a CIA hit squad is a plot point taken directly from punisher max's first arc
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Nov 21, 2017 22:13
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Yeah be that as it may I still could've done without him, I'm also not a fan of that guy he's loving weird, same as when he played Lee Harvey Oswald
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Nov 21, 2017 22:16
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site posted:I dunno how old that Clancy book is but smuggling heroin through dead gis to fund a CIA hit squad is a plot point taken directly from punisher max's first arc Clancy's "Without Remorse" was released in 1993, more than a decade before Punisher MAX, I do believe.
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Nov 21, 2017 22:17
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Bell_ posted:Every time Frank shushes somebody. Sack up and take a shot with every Frank murder bellow.
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Nov 21, 2017 22:21
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Gyges posted:I'd kind of like a one or two episode mini series of Frank running into The Hand. So used to dealing with the worst Iron Fist and the Devil of Hell's Kitchen that they don't know what to do when the murder bellowing starts. One of the best parts of the back half of DD Season 2 is when Matt and Elektra find themselves surrounded by ninjas on a rooftop... who then all get mowed down by Frank from an adjacent rooftop, doing his best impersonation of Steve Buscemi in that Adam Sandler movie.
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Nov 21, 2017 23:11
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homullus posted:Were you not aware that The Punisher is a haunted soldier killing people? Seriously. Having a real hard time so far with this series' detractors either saying it was too psychologically dark, too talky and sentimental or (god) not violent enough. I think they did a great job showing and balancing the elements of what leads someone to turn into The Punisher, the various institutions of blame, the imbalance of power, the psychological struggle with anger management and trauma and basically everything. Most importantly, the actors absolutely loving crush it throughout and that usually seems to be the make or break element with these shows. What I'm saying is Netflix Punisher is pretty loving good and the haters should shut up. Samizdata posted:As well as an exploration of the fact that we send young people without a lot of experience into a world of strict regimentation and violence and possibly traumatic experiences then send them right back into the "normal" world with little or no assistance for leaving what, in most cases, is a majority of their life doing things the "normal" world just will not tolerate. This. It's like if Animal Mother or Private Joker were returned into society. It's not Rambo and the show is better for it.
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Nov 22, 2017 01:22
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