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Are you a This poll is closed. |
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| homeowner |
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39 | 22.41% |
| renter |
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69 | 39.66% |
| stupid peace of poo poo |
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66 | 37.93% |
| Total: | 174 votes | ||
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"some as young as 12 with addiction issues choosing to sleep in the streets." Children can't choose to sleep on the streets for fucks sake. They are minors.
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Nov 20, 2017 06:45
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Don't you remember Jesus saying "Blessed are those who tell others not to give money to the homeless children whose parents are abusers"? Pretty sure it's one of the core tennets.
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Nov 20, 2017 06:53
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"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a communist."
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Nov 20, 2017 07:49
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So basically the city mission guy is saying "don't give to the poor, give it to me." Also I don't think anyone is choosing to live on the streets. They just don't have any better options.
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Nov 20, 2017 07:59
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What the hell kind of 'charity' worker thinks people voluntarily choose to sleep in the streets?El Pollo Blanco posted:Chch City Mission CEO Matthew Mark on beggars: "[For] most of them it is their business and they are making a jolly good living out of it." Oh, of course.
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Nov 20, 2017 09:00
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NZPol: They squeeze the middle class, we squeeze furniture prices
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Nov 20, 2017 09:46
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They need homelessness to be a choice or their just world illusion would crumble.
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Nov 20, 2017 10:11
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perhaps homelessness is as much a choice as being an alcoholic or addicted to p there is help available but it's up to the individual to make that first jump, and stick to it. perhaps we literally round up the homeless and addicted and force them get help?
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Nov 20, 2017 20:20
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Freedom of choice is an illusion anyway.
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Nov 20, 2017 20:47
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I am pretty sure we do force people to do stuff all the time - whether it be force them to go to gaol, or force them to undergo mental or physical health treatment.
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Nov 20, 2017 23:30
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So whats wrong with 'forcing' people to go through the proper channels to get homes / addiction counselling / anti-social behavior off the streets? as opposed to instead giving directly and potentially enabling that person to continue doing nothing with their lives.
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Nov 20, 2017 23:34
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Like I get the fact that you can't say 'all homeless people are just doing it for smokes beer and pokies' because that's obviously not the case but the first step to helping MOST people in need (ie - the ones that want help) is to get them into the system and document their troubles and assist where needed just chucking dog blankets and cash at them isn't going to help anyone (long term) apart from induce a few warm fuzzies in the giving person.
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Nov 20, 2017 23:45
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BloodRed posted:So whats wrong with 'forcing' people to go through the proper channels to get homes / addiction counselling / anti-social behavior off the streets? All of these things (arguably bar alcoholism and homelessness, but drunk and disorderly and public urination laws exist) are already illegal, so we do already "force" people through "the proper channels", if you consider the courts and prison the proper channels.
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Nov 21, 2017 00:42
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Most homeless people have already been through various support services. The only alternative in a lot of cases is literally to lock them up. Also the police do routinely round up homeless people and take them to various shelters. A lot of shelters won't allow alcohol so that's the first point at which many head right back out the door.
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Nov 21, 2017 00:59
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Eat the poor.
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Nov 21, 2017 01:20
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or at least feed em to each other?
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Nov 21, 2017 01:50
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BloodRed posted:but the first step to helping MOST people in need (ie - the ones that want help) is to get them into the system and document their troubles and assist where needed
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Nov 21, 2017 04:33
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Time will tell
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Nov 21, 2017 04:58
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Where's Cuthbert Calculus when you need him
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Nov 21, 2017 05:04
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BloodRed posted:Time will tell Indeed, it'll tell us that people are generally self-centered short sighted pieces of poo poo regardless of who's in charge.
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Nov 21, 2017 05:04
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This is just the moment to quote that old saying "Time will tell"!
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Nov 21, 2017 05:14
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Giving money directly to those who need it is a far superior option.
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Nov 21, 2017 06:47
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If you're just going to give money directly to those in need then how am I supposed to earn my executive bonus.
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Nov 21, 2017 07:01
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You can always go begging. I'm told it's very lucrative.
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Nov 21, 2017 07:08
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Slavvy posted:
They are really very cheap though. I got most of my furniture there and can't really complain
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Nov 21, 2017 07:37
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klen dool posted:Giving money directly to those who need it is a far superior option. I would rather live in a society whose economic and social policies and structure deal with a the root cause.
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Nov 21, 2017 07:46
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Varkk posted:I would rather live in a society whose economic and social policies and structure deal with a the root cause. Me to, that would rule.
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Nov 21, 2017 08:20
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Varkk posted:I would rather live in a society whose economic and social policies and structure deal with a the root cause. Full communist utopia is a noble goal but just giving them the money is a lot more straightforward right now.
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Nov 21, 2017 08:22
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every day I give the same people drugs over and over and it kinda sucks when they just don't do almost anything else at all I mean it's not like their life rules or that I am envious of any part of it
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Nov 21, 2017 08:56
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Varkk posted:I would rather live in a society whose economic and social policies and structure deal with a the root cause. While you're not wrong, there's the catch that these specific people are cold and hungry *right now*, which is the problem with just focusing on the long term solutions. I hate it too, the whole thing is hosed from decades of neglect.
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Nov 21, 2017 13:47
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So stuff like this is a waste of time because the money goes to charities instead of directly to the homeless? https://www.onepercentcollective.org/
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Nov 21, 2017 21:08
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Nope. Although setting up a UBI sounds like a good way of giving people money directly.
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Nov 21, 2017 22:25
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BloodRed posted:So stuff like this is a waste of time because the money goes to charities instead of directly to the homeless? Uh, no one said "don't give to charity", just don't loving listen to CEO's of faith based charities telling you not to give money to people on the streets.
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Nov 21, 2017 22:30
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Give this a read if you're actually interested; https://wellington.govt.nz/~/media/services/community-and-culture/our-stand-on-begging/begging-in-wellington.pdf For those who beg, we have demonstrated that their circumstances are complex and intertwined with other issues of vulnerability such as, lack of suitable housing options; chronic unemployment; lack of positive and purposeful activity; drug, alcohol and cigarette addictions; mental health issues; and criminal convictions. The people we spoke to all came from difficult or abusive childhoods and were usually disconnected from their whānau. We have discovered that begging is currently an effective transaction – there are people asking and people giving. But we have also pointed out that focusing efforts to stop the transaction alone will not address the underlying issues that led to begging in the first place. Stopping the transaction may simply mean a re-direction of need for disposable income into more harmful activities. Sustainable change can only be maximised if the complexity of begging is addressed at multiple levels.
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Nov 21, 2017 22:51
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If that's the case we should add begging to the pile of other poo poo that'll never be fixed like transport, education, mental health.
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Nov 21, 2017 23:01
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BloodRed posted:So stuff like this is a waste of time because the money goes to charities instead of directly to the homeless? Well it's a less effective use of the money than just giving it straight to those who need it, but I wouldn't call it a "waste of time". Perhaps a "slightly more wasteful way of helping but still helping some people".
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Nov 21, 2017 23:38
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What is more effective is systemic changes that put people in homes whether they like it or not; http://theconversation.com/supportive-housing-is-cheaper-than-chronic-homelessness-67539 (The numbers will be different here but as an indication of how much $ homelessness costs our communities it's pretty similar) quote:Over a 12-month period, people who were chronically homeless used state government funded services that cost approximately A$48,217 each. But, this is probably the more important learning; quote:When we provide permanent supportive housing, not only do we realise whole of government cost offsets, but the way people live their lives changes demonstrably. so, basically, no, giving directly turns you into a feel-good enabler. We need changes to eradicate the root cause (usually upbringing / abuse in childhood / deprivation of education etc) BUT we need to get these people off the streets and into homes. And hey, it'll save money in the long term too!
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Nov 21, 2017 23:51
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If helping the homeless hinges on giving them affordable living then we may as well grind them into foodpaste now.
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Nov 21, 2017 23:56
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It wouldn't be cheaper because the Australian number reflects there being housing to allocate for this purpose.
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Nov 22, 2017 00:03
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| # ? May 25, 2024 13:34 |
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BloodRed posted:
Where the hell are you getting that from in any of the material you've linked? No one here is arguing to not address the systemic problem of homelessness, and most people here probably agree that the best way to end homelessness is to provide houses, except that's not happening. In which case, provide a solid argument why giving money directly to the homeless is bad? e: also you're the dude who has in the past argued that the reason there are so many homeless in Auckland is because they're stubborn and don't want to move anywhere else, so lol. El Pollo Blanco fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Nov 22, 2017 |
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Nov 22, 2017 01:20
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