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jng2058 posted:What's creepy is that Phos actually does it! Of couse, Phos being Phos, she nearly does it on purpose then changes her mind and does it accidentally instead
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Nov 21, 2017 21:26
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Qwertycoatl posted:Of couse, Phos being Phos, she nearly does it on purpose then changes her mind and does it accidentally instead Yep. Pho's player is definitely the one who said "Bad Luck Flaw? How tough can THAT be?"
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Nov 21, 2017 21:38
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Qwertycoatl posted:I love the escalating wrongness in the ice floe stuff.
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Nov 21, 2017 23:01
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But Sensei was amenable to an alliance with the slug king/sea people.
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Nov 21, 2017 23:08
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it didn't sound like Sensei thought they were sentient Sensei told Phos to calm his heart because the floes were reflecting the uncertainty/fears he had, and all the arm stuff follows directly from Antarc saying how great it would be if Phos had arms to match his legs. Phos is kind of an unreliable narrator there since the ice may or may not have been giving him directions vs just reflecting & amplifying thoughts he already had.
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Nov 21, 2017 23:16
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Sensei seems on the up and up to me.
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Nov 21, 2017 23:21
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Sensei generously doles out the head pats to their rock children and I will destroy anyone who slanders them.
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Nov 21, 2017 23:45
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I want to hug sensei
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Nov 21, 2017 23:50
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 also all the rock people, and the jellyfish people
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Nov 21, 2017 23:53
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https://twitter.com/usaki1987/status/932054900120285185
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Nov 22, 2017 00:08
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Should be hugging Cinnabar, because they need it most.
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Nov 22, 2017 00:12
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a kitten posted:I have a guess about Phos' arms but I'm worried I might be right and don't want to spoil anyone. what would happen if two gem types were combined together
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Nov 22, 2017 00:47
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Futaba Anzu posted:what would happen if two gem types were combined together I think there was a line about problems with differing hardness and how they didn't expect the new legs to work.
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Nov 22, 2017 00:56
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I wear dresses and heels and I haven't turned into a girl yet but I'll let you know if it happens lol. I don't arbitrarily change character pronouns because I'm not BoomBoomBoom but if I was I'd he/him most the characters, phos and the poison one especially, because they come off way more as touken ranbu style bishi than girl. Oh I was totally wrong for doubting the cg in this I'm loving it so far. Suck my anus.
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Nov 22, 2017 01:07
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Wait lmao they wear the same outifts  Sorry everybody, this means all the gems are men. Yes, even when they wear dresses 
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Nov 22, 2017 01:30
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i've got art of that https://twitter.com/kusai3/status/931892643801399297
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Nov 22, 2017 01:54
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you're being way more annoying over it than the people who misgender rock people tbqh
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Nov 22, 2017 02:16
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especially when the source material doesn't ostensibly deal much with portraying issues of LGBT it makes you look like a huge rear end in a top hat just bitching constantly over it. fake edit: in response to anyone stupid enough to reply back telling me no you're wrong they're obviously genderless so it's obviously 100% an LGBT issue, no it isn't. Just because they're genderless doesn't mean anything, the role it plays in the story is purely on a broader question of what constitutes humanity, not any issues over he she it them whatever. Let people gender them however way they want as long as they understand the greater underlying plot of the show. unless something happens later in the manga that brings this specific issue up to a prevalent level, it's foolish to constantly attack people for calling the gems female when they're voiced by women and are in general way more feminine in terms of both physical appearance and mannerisms. cit: im gay
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Nov 22, 2017 02:24
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Everything Burrito posted:it didn't sound like Sensei thought they were sentient Yeah, I find it interesting in that it seems to be in part a very disturbing way of informing the viewer of Phos having thoughts of self-harm. 
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Nov 22, 2017 02:28
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paragon1 posted:Yeah, I find it interesting in that it seems to be in part a very disturbing way of informing the viewer of Phos having thoughts of self-harm. I think Phos also does not really see the scale of the downside of losing parts of their body and memories along with them because it's hard to put value to memories you don't have anymore. Phos is so focused on trying to be useful that they assign too much value to their fast new legs, and little value to the memories they lost. I could see a very sad outcome where Phos eventually loses things like their memories of and feelings for Cinnabar, Sensei and the others.
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Nov 22, 2017 03:19
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Phos may become something useful, but will that thing still be Phos? If Phos forgets about Cinnibar I will be deeply sad. I guess I'm a sucker for that kind of melodrama.
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Nov 22, 2017 03:26
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I do feel like the narrative is moving towards that, Phos is focused on improving herself that she may lose focus of why she wanted to be strong
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Nov 22, 2017 03:50
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Yeah it's not often you see a character become conflicted over whether it's a good idea to Ship of Theseus themselves.
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Nov 22, 2017 06:48
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Eela6 posted:Phos may become something useful, but will that thing still be Phos? Absolutely not. Phos is useless, ergo anything useful is not Phos.
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Nov 22, 2017 08:13
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paragon1 posted:Yeah it's not often you see a character become conflicted over whether it's a good idea to Ship of Theseus themselves. Best case you become an ultimate being while retaining your individuality, worst case you become an ultimate being with a gestalt consciousness, so I say yes, absolutely it's a good idea.
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Nov 22, 2017 08:18
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I wondered if they could just break off Phos' legs and arms, then re-powder and remix so they ended up with 50% of the agate in legs and 50% in arms. They'd still be fast, just not super crazy fast, and then their arms would be strong enough to match.
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Nov 22, 2017 08:21
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Futaba Anzu posted:especially when the source material doesn't ostensibly deal much with portraying issues of LGBT it makes you look like a huge rear end in a top hat just bitching constantly over it. Okay, so the show doesn't explicitly deal with queer issues. Fine. But it is one of a very small number of media which focus on explicitly non-binary characters. There's no good justification for assigning genders to the gems when all the media very carefully avoids doing so; so doing it makes it seem as though one is uncomfortable with the idea of people who aren't men or women. (I mean, they're voiced by women? So's Bart Simpson!) It's emotionally important to people to see themselves represented in media and when you talk about one of the few pieces of media which represents them in a manner which paints over that representation, it's going to piss people off. There's room for a whooole huge discussion about how reasonable it is for people to be pissed off by that, and for how much it means to people to see that sort of representation of themselves in media and all that jazz, but that's a gigantic :canofworms: that I don't want to open. But I think it's worth considering that while yes, constantly bitching about it is annoying, it would also be incredibly easy for people to just write "they" exactly as they do in the show and the books, and when they deliberately choose not to do that, that also seems pretty assholish. The_White_Crane fucked around with this message at 08:41 on Nov 22, 2017 |
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Nov 22, 2017 08:33
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Futaba Anzu posted:especially when the source material doesn't ostensibly deal much with portraying issues of LGBT it makes you look like a huge rear end in a top hat just bitching constantly over it. I don't give a poo poo about any of that it's just bizarre to me to insist that this one part of the canon isn't real. Also a bunch of them are hot anime guys hello. e: like all of them except the uhhhh, diamond? so far and maybe the two that fight the lunarians in the first ep. i'll report back on the genderiness of newer genderless rock people as i go though DisDisDis fucked around with this message at 13:03 on Nov 22, 2017 |
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Nov 22, 2017 12:58
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DisDisDis posted:Wait lmao they wear the same outifts Kinda surprised you’re into that compared to ur avatar
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Nov 22, 2017 16:48
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boredsatellite posted:I do feel like the narrative is moving towards that, Phos is focused on improving herself that she may lose focus of why she wanted to be strong So a metaphor for sacrificing your values for personal advancement.
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Nov 22, 2017 16:59
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https://twitter.com/angeban93/status/933141059827261440 Freezeframe. Laugh track.
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Nov 22, 2017 17:06
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Pollyanna posted:Kinda surprised you’re into that compared to ur avatar I love femme gays I just wanna gently caress masc gays more, probably
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Nov 22, 2017 18:41
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The_White_Crane posted:Okay, so the show doesn't explicitly deal with queer issues. Fine. Going back to my original reply I'd like to rescind how assholish it sounded to completely dismiss that facet of the argument. To be honest it was more in response to how obnoxious dis was in how they were responding to other people and it reminded me too much of when I'd try attending LGBT groups in real life and seeing extremists completely shutting down anything positive said about heterosexual people like friends and family.
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Nov 22, 2017 18:48
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Oh my god stop
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Nov 22, 2017 18:54
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All heterosexuals are Ronald Reagan and all gems have no gender.
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Nov 22, 2017 18:57
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The_White_Crane posted:It's emotionally important to people to see themselves represented in media and when you talk about one of the few pieces of media which represents them in a manner which paints over that representation, it's going to piss people off. Are you a mineral person? PS: the Japanese language does not handle pronouns like English does. The author is going to no great lengths at all to make them genderless. Comparing languages this way is kinda silly, and your arguments on it are just a reflection of your own attachment to minerals who don't care about LGBT issues at all.
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Nov 22, 2017 19:00
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Futaba Anzu posted:Going back to my original reply I'd like to rescind how assholish it sounded to completely dismiss that facet of the argument. To be honest it was more in response to how obnoxious dis was in how they were responding to other people and it reminded me too much of when I'd try attending LGBT groups in real life and seeing extremists completely shutting down anything positive said about heterosexual people like friends and family. Fair enough. Believe me, I also dislike the weirdly militant "progressive" types (for gently caress's sake, you're not helping you're not the loving black panthers just shut up), but I do think there's a perfectly legitimate point to be made about how it looks when people deliberately remove from discourse an aspect of some media which is, if not explicitly about queer people, distinctly important to queer people. Or some queer people, anyway, not a monolithic entity et cetera. Sarcophallus posted:Are you a mineral person? Yes, thanks, I'm aware Japanese does not handle pronouns like English does. However, most works translated from Japanese sub in appropriate male/female pronouns and don't explicitly avoid them in favour of using "they", so I'm not sure what your point is. Also, yes, the minerals don't care about LGBT issues on account of how they're fictional characters. They also don't care what pronouns people use for them, because again, fictional characters. But it's extremely obvious from the amount of (tedious) discourse on the subject that the topic is (yes, probably disproportionately) important to some LGBT people who are not fictional characters, and insisting on using gendered pronouns for characters that  the official translations explicitly avoid gendering is obviously going to upset those people. You can make all the arguments you want about how unimportant it is and how those people are getting too upset, and hey, I even agree with you, which is why I wasn't kvetching about this for the last several pages until Disdisdis reopened the topic, but if it's so unimportant, then why are people so insistent on projecting their interpretation of gender onto the characters over the one preferred in the media itself? Could it be that the issue is *gasp* also disproportionately important to those people too!? The_White_Crane fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Nov 22, 2017 |
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Nov 22, 2017 19:01
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We have a 100% serviceable, gender-neutral pronoun in the English language. It's "they". They stuck their arms in the ocean because the floes told them too. Simple! Though this at this point is a giant dead horse that's turning into dust from being beaten so much.
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Nov 22, 2017 19:05
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I feel like the author actually is going to some lengths to make them androgynous, because their normal outfits all borrow menswear influences and the designs are even less feminine in the manga. there are also gems like antarc and several yet to appear that barely if at all register as feminine. choices like gems referring to each other as brothers or wearing frilly pajama dresses are there to show the gems have no attachment to gender as we know it. the existence of the things is definitely inviting thought on gendered presentation even if it's not a central theme of the work.
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Nov 22, 2017 19:11
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The_White_Crane posted:You can make all the arguments you want about how unimportant it is and how those people are getting too upset, and hey, I even agree with you, which is why I wasn't kvetching about this for the last several pages until Disdisdis reopened the topic, but if it's so unimportant, then why are people so insistent on projecting their interpretation of gender onto the characters over the one preferred in the media itself? I think we're on the same page, which is nice. I avoid talking about the specifics of the show here because I'm a dirty manga reader, so I don't want to pollute discussion for new folks with incidental spoilers or 'correcting' interpretations people are having; but this is absolutely one of my favorite series. I personally get frustrated that so much of the discussion around it is, frankly, hijacked by LGBT wish-fulfillment. It's a story with really strong themes around identity, personal value, and isolation - which in my view does a really great job being more than skin-deep on those topics. Phos' identity has absolutely nothing to do with how gay or genderless it may or may not be, and everything to do with the conflict between their contribution to gem-society and general incompetence. The author is literally playing out a Ship of Theseus on Phos and it's fascinating. Whether a person refers to Phos as 'he', 'she', or 'it' makes literally no difference to any of the themes of the story, but people get so hung up on it for reasons that I don't think make any sense. Gender has nothing at all to do with the series.
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Nov 22, 2017 20:00
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