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Sandwich Anarchist
Sep 12, 2008
I just want to play as the Vorcha in the Mass Effect galaxy tia

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Nevets
Sep 11, 2002

Be they sad or be they well,
I'll make their lives a hell
After playing a game of Endless Space 2 in the Steam free weekend I will say that one thing which really sets it apart from Stellaris is the faction specific events & art. Stellaris let's you create your own narrative with big choices such as the higher tier ascension perks, but there is just something about a reading a well written & personalized story that has more impact than making a strategic choice & letting your imagination fill in the blanks. Still prefer Stellaris overall, but a single player campaign with a preset map, races, unique events, etc. would be a nice addition.

Aethernet
Jan 28, 2009

This is the Captain...

Our glorious political masters have, in their wisdom, decided to form an alliance with a rag-tag bunch of freedom fighters right when the Federation has us at a tactical disadvantage. Unsurprisingly, this has resulted in the Feds firing on our vessels...

Damn you Huxley!

Grimey Drawer
After the recent update ES2 feels considerably better and is well worth picking up, I agree. Combat is still terrible, and you can safely ignore the recently added fighters though.

gowb
Apr 14, 2005

Splicer posted:

Feature request: select an empire during a game and save them/their starting configuration as a race. Sometimes I end up getting invested in/hating a randomly generated AI empire and I'd like to save them for future games.

You could just make note of their details and recreate them?

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

gowb posted:

You could just make note of their details and recreate them?
It's not the same :( also, effort.

Captain Invictus
Apr 5, 2005

Try reading some manga!


Clever Betty
Can you stack components on fortresses? Like, can I equip two shield dampeners on a fortress and get 2x the effect, or will only one take effect? -50% shields and -10% regeneration sounds pretty fantastic to me

appropriatemetaphor
Jan 26, 2006

Gobbeldygook posted:

He means if he's at war with the Furlongs and they flee into Kazon space he can't chase the Furlongs into Kazon space without either going to war with the Kazon's or the Kazon's opening their borders to him.

Yeah, but the only actual route between me and the Furlongs is through Kazon space. So couldn't actually touch them.

I had 1 disconnected hyperlane planet connect to the Furlong territory, so technically i had "access". But there was no way for me to actually get to that planet.

All in the past now; they're all assimilated.

Deceitful Penguin
Feb 16, 2011

appropriatemetaphor posted:

um, so apparently the ai can deny you access, but allow it for your war enemy? someone declared war on me and they just run away into "neutral" territory and i can't get them.
This is one of those things where you can see the EUIV influence rather than the CK2 influence and it's always so gosh dang silly.

gowb
Apr 14, 2005

Deceitful Penguin posted:

This is one of those things where you can see the EUIV influence rather than the CK2 influence and it's always so gosh dang silly.

I mean, the alternative is to allow you to go into another empires territory whenever you want but they declare war on you if they've closed their borders. Which seems identical to the current situation except with more opportunities to f*ck up games

appropriatemetaphor
Jan 26, 2006

gowb posted:

I mean, the alternative is to allow you to go into another empires territory whenever you want but they declare war on you if they've closed their borders. Which seems identical to the current situation except with more opportunities to f*ck up games

It'd only be empires that give your enemy access. Like EU4 works like that, if I attack you, then I can't just go hide in my allies territory.

Dick Trauma
Nov 30, 2007

God damn it, you've got to be kind.
I miss the spying aspect of CK II. There's two large "Superior" civs that are eventually going to crush the rest of us, and it would be nice to be able to attempt to do something underhanded to them. Like make one of their stars go nova, or embarrass their leader or some other Paradox-y solution to my problem. I feel like there's very little relationship management in this game compared to CKII because you basically rarely every communicate with anyone whether they favor you or hate you. In that game I came to dislike the handful of miserable bastard Dukes that were always screwing with you, and came to appreciate the few that seemed to stand by you and could be relied upon when things got bad.

EDIT: Those two big civs just took me from midgame to endgame. D'OH. Time to try a custom civ.

Dick Trauma fucked around with this message at 11:53 on Nov 22, 2017

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

appropriatemetaphor posted:

It'd only be empires that give your enemy access. Like EU4 works like that, if I attack you, then I can't just go hide in my allies territory.

My preferred solution would be a diplomatic action, like a casus belli sort of thing where you might be able to strongarm an empire into either ending their access to the other empire, or letting you access their territory. Rather than it just being automatic cos I honestly like the dynamic of having enemies attack through buffer states.

GunnerJ
Aug 1, 2005

Do you think this is funny?
https://twitter.com/Martin_Anward/status/933365132272570369

We already know about the new starport system, so I wonder what this is supposed to be (if it's not just a model for starports).

Psychotic Weasel
Jun 24, 2004

Bang! You're dead.
https://twitter.com/Martin_Anward/status/933365132272570369

More art assets coming down the pipe. Are they part of the Cherryh update as well or a separate art pack? Who knows but you'll buy it anyway don't kid yourself.

It immediately looked familiar to me (and thousands of other Twitter users). Wiz you're playing with fire if you come out as a Trekkie.

ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!





Welp, it's 2337 and my Determined Exterminators are 10 planets away from a domination victory. When the mandatory truce drops in 4 years I should be able to vassalize the only other machine empire in the galaxy for the win.

I'll probably keep playing after I get the win and try to crush whoever's left. It's also about time to take out the Fallen Empires, who are now Inferior to me. The xenophobic isolationists who started as my closest neighbor (and are now entirely enclosed within my territory) are first on the list. gently caress those guys, they keep threatening me whenever I try to eat the primitives nearby.

Groetgaffel
Oct 30, 2011

Groetgaffel smacked the living shit out of himself doing 297 points of damage.

Sandwich Anarchist posted:

I just want to play as the Vorcha in the Mass Effect galaxy tia

Same but Volus.

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

Man I love that station because it's basically just a starfleet starbase.

Rogue AI Goddess
May 10, 2012

I enjoy the sight of humans on their knees.
That was a joke... unless..?

appropriatemetaphor posted:

It'd only be empires that give your enemy access. Like EU4 works like that, if I attack you, then I can't just go hide in my allies territory.
It should work like King of the Dragon Pass: every time you attack across a neighbor’s territory, you gotta pay them in cows and silver to let you cross.

Deceitful Penguin
Feb 16, 2011

gowb posted:

I mean, the alternative is to allow you to go into another empires territory whenever you want but they declare war on you if they've closed their borders. Which seems identical to the current situation except with more opportunities to f*ck up games
Uhhhh, Rome Total War, a game developed 13 years ago, solved this by having the other empire get opinion penalties for doing this, with them growing larger the longer you did it

Dick Trauma posted:

I miss the spying aspect of CK II. There's two large "Superior" civs that are eventually going to crush the rest of us, and it would be nice to be able to attempt to do something underhanded to them. Like make one of their stars go nova, or embarrass their leader or some other Paradox-y solution to my problem. I feel like there's very little relationship management in this game compared to CKII because you basically rarely every communicate with anyone whether they favor you or hate you. In that game I came to dislike the handful of miserable bastard Dukes that were always screwing with you, and came to appreciate the few that seemed to stand by you and could be relied upon when things got bad.

EDIT: Those two big civs just took me from midgame to endgame. D'OH. Time to try a custom civ.
Wiz has stated he doesn't find espionage gameplay fun, because he doesn't like being on the receiving end of it so that's way, way on the backburner if it's ever coming at all

Slung Blade
Jul 11, 2002

IN STEEL WE TRUST

I don't blame him. I loving hate being spied on, having random poo poo blow up, or getting my good relations with other empires screwed up because some tiny pissant empire on the other side of the Galaxy wants to disrupt our friendship.

Espionage is awful and un fun to deal with on the scale this game would present it on.

Dick Trauma
Nov 30, 2007

God damn it, you've got to be kind.

Deceitful Penguin posted:

Uhhhh, Rome Total War, a game developed 13 years ago, solved this by having the other empire get opinion penalties for doing this, with them growing larger the longer you did it
Wiz has stated he doesn't find espionage gameplay fun, because he doesn't like being on the receiving end of it so that's way, way on the backburner if it's ever coming at all

That's understandable. At least I can take in refugees from all the smaller civs that are getting clobbered.

I also have no idea how to outfit my ships. I understand some weapons are better to attack shields, some armor, some closer and some farther away but in the end there's too many choices and no way to measure their value. Lasers? Point defense? Cannons? Attack craft? Different armors? <presses automatic button>

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

Slung Blade posted:

I don't blame him. I loving hate being spied on, having random poo poo blow up, or getting my good relations with other empires screwed up because some tiny pissant empire on the other side of the Galaxy wants to disrupt our friendship.

Espionage is awful and un fun to deal with on the scale this game would present it on.
You could build a pretty nice "espionage" system entirely around dicking with other empire's factions. Promote a faction with your ethics to make them like you more. Promote Materialists to destabilise that Spiritualist empire you don't like, or to make an empire's spiritualist buddy empire hate them. If it happens to you you already have a bunch of ways to deal with faction unrest, or you can murder the empire in question, or you can just go with it. Throw in a few other non-destructive actions (spy on ships designs, duplicate research, other positive sum actions) as well, but no blowing stuff up or stealing stuff or direct political fiddling.

Nickiepoo
Jun 24, 2013

Splicer posted:

You could build a pretty nice "espionage" system entirely around dicking with other empire's factions. Promote a faction with your ethics to make them like you more. Promote Materialists to destabilise that Spiritualist empire you don't like, or to make an empire's spiritualist buddy empire hate them. If it happens to you you already have a bunch of ways to deal with faction unrest, or you can murder the empire in question, or you can just go with it. Throw in a few other non-destructive actions (spy on ships designs, duplicate research, other positive sum actions) as well, but no blowing stuff up or stealing stuff or direct political fiddling.

Yeah, intel espionage or 'non destructive' things like having the option to gently caress with elections (even though that's unrealistic and doesn't happen in real life) could add to the game as 'ways to interact with other nations on the low'.

turn off the TV
Aug 4, 2010

moderately annoying

Splicer posted:

You could build a pretty nice "espionage" system entirely around dicking with other empire's factions. Promote a faction with your ethics to make them like you more. Promote Materialists to destabilise that Spiritualist empire you don't like, or to make an empire's spiritualist buddy empire hate them. If it happens to you you already have a bunch of ways to deal with faction unrest, or you can murder the empire in question, or you can just go with it. Throw in a few other non-destructive actions (spy on ships designs, duplicate research, other positive sum actions) as well, but no blowing stuff up or stealing stuff or direct political fiddling.

Yeah, I feel like there could be a pretty distinct difference between espionage and sabotage.

Dick Trauma
Nov 30, 2007

God damn it, you've got to be kind.
Maybe if I'm allied with a civ that has a bonus to being sneaky little buggers I could ask them to go stir poo poo up or sabotage something. :ninja:

Yngwie Mangosteen
Aug 23, 2007
Espionage could be cool but I really just want super weapons. Where are the crazy weapons like slow DoT that infects ships and eats them from the armor inward? Or prevent emergency ftl? Why can't I blow up a star or planet? Why aren't there options to board and take over ships instead of just bombers or scouts or fighters? Can we get an update where we use all the graviton tech we research to fling rocks around? Or strap ftl drives to asteroids and slam them into stuff? We have crazy physics but none of it does neat stuff very often.

To be fair to the devs, I usually get bored after about 2-300 years when my ship options are just two or three paper scissors rock decisions based on shields, armor, and range with bigger numbers than the one before it so maybe this exists in the super late game.

Sandwich Anarchist
Sep 12, 2008
There is a mod that lets you run a planetary edict called like "promote unrest" that stacks unrest points on nearby planets from other empires. Mix that with the more potent rebellions mod and you get a nice little political espionage thing going.

Dallan Invictus
Oct 11, 2007

The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes, look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

Slung Blade posted:

I don't blame him. I loving hate being spied on, having random poo poo blow up, or getting my good relations with other empires screwed up because some tiny pissant empire on the other side of the Galaxy wants to disrupt our friendship.

Espionage is awful and un fun to deal with on the scale this game would present it on.

Espionage/intrigue gameplay is hard to get right for more or less this reason. I think CK2 is the only game in recent memory where when you or someone you need alive gets murdered, or some other plot goes off to your detriment, the reaction is more "you magnificent BASTARD" rather than ":argh" piece of poo poo game!", and I'm not sure the things that make CK2 intrigue fun can really translate to a 4X in this style.

Captain Monkey posted:

To be fair to the devs, I usually get bored after about 2-300 years when my ship options are just two or three paper scissors rock decisions based on shields, armor, and range with bigger numbers than the one before it so maybe this exists in the super late game.

It really doesn't, no.

DatonKallandor
Aug 21, 2009

"I can no longer sit back and allow nationalist shitposting, nationalist indoctrination, nationalist subversion, and the German nationalist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious game balance."

GunnerJ posted:

https://twitter.com/Martin_Anward/status/933365132272570369

We already know about the new starport system, so I wonder what this is supposed to be (if it's not just a model for starports).

Looks like a Starport model for a new ship set.

wiegieman
Apr 22, 2010

Royalty is a continuous cutting motion


Dallan Invictus posted:

Espionage/intrigue gameplay is hard to get right for more or less this reason. I think CK2 is the only game in recent memory where when you or someone you need alive gets murdered, or some other plot goes off to your detriment, the reaction is more "you magnificent BASTARD" rather than ":argh" piece of poo poo game!", and I'm not sure the things that make CK2 intrigue fun can really translate to a 4X in this style.

It's because CKII is an intentionally personal game. Your character, your holding, your family members, etc. Stellaris is an intentionally impersonal game. No levies that depend on personal relations, but instead infinitely replaceable and upgrade-able ships built by a shared resource pool collected by interchangeable pops. That's fine, they're different games, but randomly losing the assets you built to a faceless opponent is not as fun as having your heir murdered by your hated rival.

Fintilgin
Sep 29, 2004

Fintilgin sweeps!
Light espionage would be interesting.

Steal sensor link or tech progress (like a research agreement), maybe cause some ethics drift. Exploding factories would be lame though.

Also, not sure how you make the gameplay part fun.

ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!





Fintilgin posted:

Light espionage would be interesting.

Steal sensor link or tech progress (like a research agreement), maybe cause some ethics drift. Exploding factories would be lame though.

Also, not sure how you make the gameplay part fun.

It'd probably be fun if there were espionage events, kind of like what you get from observation posts. But instead of your dudes burning crop circles, its someone else's dudes propping up a cult or an ethics faction or something.

Portray this as an escalating series of events where you can take steps to combat the problem at various stages.

binge crotching
Apr 2, 2010

Has anything been mentioned about being able to turn event ships into the normal ship classes? I finished the Cultist event chain, and the free cruiser was nice. However, because it couldn't ever be upgraded (and it comes with just T1 lasers/missiles), I ended up sending it alone at some point to just distract an enemy fleet and die.

Captain Invictus
Apr 5, 2005

Try reading some manga!


Clever Betty

Captain Invictus posted:

Can you stack components on fortresses? Like, can I equip two shield dampeners on a fortress and get 2x the effect, or will only one take effect? -50% shields and -10% regeneration sounds pretty fantastic to me

Anyone know? Maybe the dev who posts here?

Also, how in depth are ascendant fallen empires, and when they go on a warpath, do they conquer a lot or do they stop quickly? I've got a fallen empire who naturally was the one of four in the galaxy that was near me awaken and immediately vassalize me. They then declared war on the second largest empire (of...like...30...I must have accidentally set it to max instead of minimum), conquered two of their worlds in no time, and then seem to have gotten stuck in an infinite loop with their attack fleets and 3 enemy construction ships, the builders say they're invading, the troop transports say they're following the doomstack, and the doomstack is just...sitting there just outside of range of the builders.

Edit: it only took 10 years but they broke out of it by declaring war on someone else it seems.

Captain Invictus fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Nov 22, 2017

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

So missiles are still hot garbage is seems. Somebody was saying the rebalance had made them effective in the early game, but after fighting a couple early game wars I strongly disagree. The shield damage bonus means that your ships love to damage enemy ships down to 15% health, then switch to a new target. And the range bonus is effectively useless since your corvettes just mindlessly close the range.

Can't retech into kinetic weapons fast enough.

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

PittTheElder posted:

So missiles are still hot garbage is seems. Somebody was saying the rebalance had made them effective in the early game, but after fighting a couple early game wars I strongly disagree. The shield damage bonus means that your ships love to damage enemy ships down to 15% health, then switch to a new target. And the range bonus is effectively useless since your corvettes just mindlessly close the range.

Can't retech into kinetic weapons fast enough.
Kinetic weapons also have +shield damage. What you want is kinetic or missiles along with a bunch of plasma, so when your anti-shield stuff has taken down a shield the plasma focus-fires the exposed ship. The advantage of missiles over kinetic is that the extra range means that by the time your fleets meet you've probably already popped a few shields for you plasma. The disadvantage is PD hard countering.

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

I guess, I just open kinetic as a general choice, and I don't know if the retargetting works differently, but it always works better than these last couple fights have gone.

In a perfect world I'm definitely rolling plenty of plasma, but when you're fighting really early that's just not on the table. It seems weird to me that missiles don't even seem effective in that early period before PD is a thing.

PittTheElder fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Nov 22, 2017

Fruits of the sea
Dec 1, 2010

Dick Trauma posted:

That's understandable. At least I can take in refugees from all the smaller civs that are getting clobbered.

I also have no idea how to outfit my ships. I understand some weapons are better to attack shields, some armor, some closer and some farther away but in the end there's too many choices and no way to measure their value. Lasers? Point defense? Cannons? Attack craft? Different armors? <presses automatic button>

A safe bet is to give larger ships kinetic weapons with long range and outfit smaller, faster ships with plasma (and lasers until you get plasma). The long range kinetic weapons aren't bothered by shields while the lasers/plasma tear up ships once their shields are down. Always make sure your fleets have a decent amount of destroyers with some point defense for countering missiles. You can experiment with different themes, but this model seems to work decently in any fight.

The exception to this is some of the endgame crises where you will want to regear entirely because there are dozens of 300k fleets and they may only have shields or armour or something wacky.

What balance of shields to armour is best, I have no idea.

binge crotching
Apr 2, 2010

PittTheElder posted:

I guess, I just open kinetic as a general choice, and I don't know if the retargetting works differently, but it always works better than these last couple fights have gone.

In a perfect world I'm definitely rolling plenty of plasma, but when you're fighting really early that's just not on the table. It seems weird to me that missiles don't even seem effective in that early period before PD is a thing.

Every time I start with missiles, I completely roll over everything in the fairly early game. Once you hit 20-30 corvettes, the extra range pops a few of the enemy fleet before they are able to fire. If I try to fight before that though, the numbers are so small that a couple of extra misses one way or the other can completely throw off a battle.

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Dick Trauma
Nov 30, 2007

God damn it, you've got to be kind.
I was in the middle of a war against a very large enemy but I had control of the federation fleet so I could make a decent stack. We were just clawing our way back to a positive warscore when I lost control of the federation and the fleet promptly ran back home. There's no way to get them to coordinate with me so I have to head back to my own space and hope that since I'm not the primary target they'll leave me alone and eat my ally.

There really should be a better way to get federation forces to work together.

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