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Koramei posted:All I've learned about them has come from an episode of In Our Time, but according the historians on that, the Mamluks getting wiped out was really not an inevitability at all. Mamluk sultanate, while in decline, definitely wasn’t insta-doomed in 1444. Even as late as 1490 they could still resist the Ottomans in a straight-up war, but it put a very serious economic burden on them and the establishment of alternative Indian Ocean trade routes around 1500 was the nail in the coffin. That was a big money problem that they would always have needed to solve; combined with their failure to modernize their military along Ottoman lines and the general political instability and infighting among the Circassian Mamluks, they were heading for trouble from the beginning of EU4’s timeframe.
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Nov 23, 2017 19:59
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Schizotek posted:Every game I've had so fart the Ottomans expand normally, except every one in awhile they don't eat into europe as much. I've yet to see AI mamluks win against them. This is my experience as well. Ottomans beat the poo poo out of Mamluks, Hungary, Persia, who the gently caress ever.
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Nov 23, 2017 20:32
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Most of my overnights at work also show Mamluks eventually getting their teeth kicked in by the Ottomans or the QQ about 90% of the cases before 1550 at the very latest. From what I've seen though Ottoman have a really strong affinity now days for Russian/Lithuanian land though compared to the south & east routes it used to take.
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Nov 23, 2017 21:37
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Question to the group, especially Koramei and groogy. Should I go post on the suggestions forums at all re: eu iv? The suggestions I have were primarily resulting from playing a full venice merchant republic MP and making me realize some issues/bugs with them. I just don’t know if it’s a good idea to swamp the forum with a target to a government that is rarely used immediately after the update that changed things. Advice?
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Nov 23, 2017 22:34
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The devs constantly post to say that they do actually read everything on the suggestion forums and a lot of good suggestions there have been put into the game, though it's mostly map and flavour changes as far as I am aware.
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Nov 23, 2017 22:45
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Man the Byz start is so much harder now because the AI fills its relationship slots up super quick. Meaning I can't get the allies I need to do anything.
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Nov 23, 2017 22:50
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Just post, there's a ton of bullshit there anyway so I don't think you need to worry about that. I don't speak for the devs but I don't think it's only map/flavor stuff that gets taken on, it's just that stuff that's the most obvious when it gets used. I doubt they'd be using on a gameplay mechanics suggestion 1:1 as it was submitted in the same way they might for something with incontrovertible historical sources (not that half the history suggestions have that either I suppose) but that doesn't mean it can't make an impact.
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Nov 23, 2017 22:53
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I kinda like that the Mamluks aren't instantly folding the minute the Ottermans are looking at them. They're still utterly screwed as the Ottomans have much better military from superior national ideas, development and the whole Janissary events backing them up. But it's nice that it takes a little longer. 
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Nov 23, 2017 23:07
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Poil posted:I kinda like that the Mamluks aren't instantly folding the minute the Ottermans are looking at them. They're still utterly screwed as the Ottomans have much better military from superior national ideas, development and the whole Janissary events backing them up. But it's nice that it takes a little longer. Don't the Janissary events no longer exist as they get Janissaries as a special "per state" recruit similar to Banners? It's actually kind of neat that the OE's design (and the AI's idea sets) is such that they have a strong army early game but will be hugely outclassed once everyone's filled their 3rd idea group and have all their NIs unlocked.
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Nov 24, 2017 00:32
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CharlestheHammer posted:Man the Byz start is so much harder now because the AI fills its relationship slots up super quick. Keep trying! I think it's actually the easiest it has ever been right now without cheesing. My path to victory involved joining Albania immediately after they were DOWed by the Ottomans. Since Hungary was allied to Albania, being in the same war together gave me more than enough relations to ally Hungary long term. The combination of Albania's general, Venice's navy, and Hungary's troops are more than enough to demolish the Ottomans if you use the terrain well. Try to get siege ownership of all Ottoman territory bordering Albania and Hungary so the AI will return your cores at the war's end. After that war, ally the Mamluks (you'll be big enough to rival the Ottomans so this will be easy) and you will be good to demolish the green blob in another two or three wars.
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Nov 24, 2017 03:11
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RabidWeasel posted:Don't the Janissary events no longer exist as they get Janissaries as a special "per state" recruit similar to Banners? It's actually kind of neat that the OE's design (and the AI's idea sets) is such that they have a strong army early game but will be hugely outclassed once everyone's filled their 3rd idea group and have all their NIs unlocked. The janissary events and disaster still exist in the files, though I haven't played long enough as the Ottos to see them fire.
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Nov 24, 2017 03:15
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Groogy posted:Most of my overnights at work also show Mamluks eventually getting their teeth kicked in by the Ottomans or the QQ about 90% of the cases before 1550 at the very latest. I'd like to see the Ottomans get more aggressive in the Balkans and reach for central Europe like they did historically, but I don't know how you encourage the AI to do that in its current framework without causing the Ottomans to implode in coalition wars and junk. Which I guess is also kind of historical, actually?
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Nov 24, 2017 03:50
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800 hours in and I just learned that you can spawn institutions through development  Probably 650+ of those hours were before they added institutions but still...
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Nov 24, 2017 03:50
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Godlovesus posted:from playing a full venice merchant republic MP and making me realize some issues/bugs with them. If it is actually issues (depending on how you define an issue) the proper place might actually be in the bug forum. Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:I'd like to see the Ottomans get more aggressive in the Balkans and reach for central Europe like they did historically, but I don't know how you encourage the AI to do that in its current framework without causing the Ottomans to implode in coalition wars and junk. Which I guess is also kind of historical, actually? Missions are usually pretty good at guiding AI to do stuff Groogy fucked around with this message at 09:33 on Nov 24, 2017 |
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Nov 24, 2017 09:14
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Welp, protestant league war fired off like 10 years after the age of Reformation started and somehow catholic Hungary and the Ottomans got dragged into the protestant side of things which is just my papal state italy and Austria. RIP us.
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Nov 24, 2017 09:15
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If you think that the game becomes a slog around the 1700 when the imperialism kicks in? Don't worry we got u fam https://twitter.com/SirVogelius/status/933980732778741760 x-axis is daily ticks compressed into years, the y-axis is how many seconds spent. If you like statistics and numbers here's some for you Before was Average (ms): 197, Median (ms): 176, 90th Percentile (ms): 300 After was Average (ms): 133, Median (ms): 104, 90th Percentile (ms): 249 e: Also before someone points out that our games don't do multicore or something, the AI_ACTOR part is all done over several threads (think it is double of the amount of cores you have if I remember right) Groogy fucked around with this message at 13:22 on Nov 24, 2017 |
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Nov 24, 2017 10:16
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Awesome!  Have you done something about how the game will sometimes go into super lag chug mode despite flowing like melted butter just before, and after? It doesn't happen often at all and I haven't seen it so far in the current patch but it happened once in the last patch. I can't remember if it randomly stopped or if I just saved&quit and it was fine when I resumed playing later. 
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Nov 24, 2017 11:19
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Working on that right now actually. Well one potential cause for it.
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Nov 24, 2017 11:31
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Groogy posted:If you think that the game becomes a slog around the 1700 when the imperialism kicks in? Don't worry we got u fam
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Nov 24, 2017 15:19
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Groogy posted:Working on that right now actually. Well one potential cause for it. 
Poil fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Nov 24, 2017 |
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Nov 24, 2017 15:28
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gently caress Ming.
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Nov 24, 2017 17:06
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really queer Christmas posted:gently caress Ming.
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Nov 24, 2017 17:32
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I'm now entirely convinced that the army AI has been broken somehow, I've seen more instances of "that's loving stupid" when it comes to AI army movements in a week of playing than I have in the previous 6 months. Every time I play I see a frozen army or the AI completely abandoning nearly complete sieges for no reason.
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Nov 24, 2017 18:15
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After countless attempts I finally had a succesful Ethiopia run and snagged the Prester John and A Blessed Nation chievos. I feel that the new patch made it slightly easier. Usually Mamluks have been demolished by the Ottomans and then they hate me for having any land in Egypt, now they put up enough of a fight for Ottomans to ally with me, after which they were pretty cool with me owning land in Egypt. After that I focused on expansion in Africa and SE Asia, before I felt I was strong and rich enough to not be afraid of Ottomans anymore, so I started expanding into Yemen and right into their sphere of interest. At which point they promptly cancelled the alliance. So then I started improving relations with suitable countries and got an alliance with both Russia and Persia, and a couple of hellwars later Bohemia joined in. While my alliance could not match the number of troops Ottomans could field, attacking on multiple fronts and having better terrain eventually brought victory. It also helped that after the first few wars I was able to ignore pretty borders and go straight for the relevant provinces. Here's the world in early 1700's.   Close up of the bordergore  Here's Europe, nothing too strange here.  And Asia, nothing too weird here either. Ottomans managed to colonize northern Philippines and are allying or guaranteeing everyone I want to conquer in the area.  Oh and Kildare and Brittany are major colonizers in this timeline. It was a pretty fun playthrough. I was always technologically behind, so I only had superior armies against Sub-Saharan Africans and could never really hope to defeat Mamluks or Ottomans in the field, but with enormous defensive bonuses I could ensure no one could conquer anything from me, all my enemies would die from attrition. Also, a couple strange bugs I encountered: The event changing my capital to Gonder temporarily removed my ability to have a trade company in Indonesia. Also none of the "Copts in X are coming out of hiding" actually gave any area any bonus missionary strength.
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Nov 24, 2017 19:32
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RabidWeasel posted:I'm now entirely convinced that the army AI has been broken somehow, I've seen more instances of "that's loving stupid" when it comes to AI army movements in a week of playing than I have in the previous 6 months. Every time I play I see a frozen army or the AI completely abandoning nearly complete sieges for no reason. Yeah my Byzantine run ended early because the Hungarians decided to accept my call to arms and then sit on their border until I had been thoroughly defeated. Edit: come to think of it that's a player tactic as well to avoid a prestige hit bees everywhere fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Nov 24, 2017 |
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Nov 24, 2017 19:33
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Groogy posted:If it is actually issues (depending on how you define an issue) the proper place might actually be in the bug forum. Well it’s a bit of both. And because my errors were from last patch I don’t know if it’s applicable. The best example I have is trade cities A merchant republic can create trade cities that are supposed to never leave your trade league. However, you also can’t expel or kick them out. And you’re meant to have a limit of one trade city per trade node. Here were a couple of issues: 1. missions and score cards will sometimes still spawn regarding their conquest of your trade league. That’s really bad because you can’t expel them like a normal trade member so the mission becomes useless. 2. Trade cities would leave your trade league and go to war with you if they were allied with a country you wanted with (fixed partially because trade cities can’t make alliances) but! Trade cities would also leave you for Ming tributary or vassalization requests. WAD? 3. Trade cities leaving your league for unknown reasons. I had created trade cities just ditch me at times. I think sometimes my AE/OE/Dip rep was low sometimes but they’d just leave. 4. Creating more than one trade city per node if the previous trade city you made left your league. Follow up from 2 but essentially my Philippines had 3 trade cities because they kept leaving for ming tributary until I smashed ming and could reinvite them again I mean suggestions I get but are these bugs or just misplaced design because MRs are ancient
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Nov 24, 2017 23:16
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Ok, so I am trying to cook up a really stupid gimmick run, but I am running into an issue. Is there any possible way to ditch the Emperor of China title? If I go through with my idea, I foresee nobody actually challenging me for it once I inevitably have it, but I have to lose it for my idea to work. I have spent a while exploring different options using the console (rebel religion conversion, moving my capital out of China, ditching all of my Chinese cultures, even forming England. This looked very silly in practice, because it was a Sunni England who owned all of China and Egypt.) e; fwiw, the plan is... 1: Pick Timurids. 2: Form Yuan. 3: Form Mughals. 4: Form Mamluks. 5: Form Rum. 6: Form England. 7: Form Great Britain. 8: Form France. 9: Form Netherlands. I know that I could do 1-3 with ease, and I have done 6-9 before. I also know I could do 4-8 if I didn't do step 2, but step 2 is really funny to me and I want to do it. I just can't progress beyond 3 if I am the Emperor of China. Another Person fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Nov 24, 2017 |
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Nov 24, 2017 23:44
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Groogy posted:If you think that the game becomes a slog around the 1700 when the imperialism kicks in? Don't worry we got u fam Just wanted to reiterate that this owns.
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Nov 24, 2017 23:49
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Godlovesus posted:Well it’s a bit of both. And because my errors were from last patch I don’t know if it’s applicable. Design it self can have bugs. It's not limited to programming. Report these issues on the forum. Sorry I'm not going to remember this on Monday. Also if you find a sick joy in telling me what I do is poo poo, consider applying here. https://career.paradoxplaza.com/jobs/46502-qa-tester
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Nov 25, 2017 02:49
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Another Person posted:Ok, so I am trying to cook up a really stupid gimmick run, but I am running into an issue. Is there any possible way to ditch the Emperor of China title? If I go through with my idea, I foresee nobody actually challenging me for it once I inevitably have it, but I have to lose it for my idea to work. I have spent a while exploring different options using the console (rebel religion conversion, moving my capital out of China, ditching all of my Chinese cultures, even forming England. This looked very silly in practice, because it was a Sunni England who owned all of China and Egypt.) At one point it was possible to ditch empire of china if you got polish culture and Magnate rebels but I don't know if that's still the case.
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Nov 25, 2017 03:03
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reignonyourparade posted:At one point it was possible to ditch empire of china if you got polish culture and Magnate rebels but I don't know if that's still the case. Magnates apparently got fixed so they can't change your government type any more
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Nov 25, 2017 09:49
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In my game as colonialist Spain, the Mamluks got turbofucked by snowballing Ottomans to the point that all they had left is 1 worthless Sahara province, a couple of random islands in the Indian Ocean, and Taiwan. Somehow. Except now Taiwan is mine. Thanks for reading my EU4 story.
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Nov 25, 2017 10:03
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I backstabed the Mamluks and almost had them killed, except they picked exploration and ended up as a Ming tributary. Good thing I got all the achievements out of this run that I wanted. Is it still possible to become HRE as Coptomans?
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Nov 25, 2017 10:19
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Maybe it was always like this, but I feel like AI has gone a bit more creative with their wardecs, to the point they could neeeearly pass for a player. Example: as Mamluks I get Ottomans to release Serbia/Bulgaria/Greece. Instead of waiting ten years, Ottomans waited till one of those countries allied some other country, declare on that country, took back their cores, and white peace the allied country. Repeat 2 more times.
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Nov 25, 2017 11:03
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canepazzo posted:Maybe it was always like this, but I feel like AI has gone a bit more creative with their wardecs, to the point they could neeeearly pass for a player. Example: as Mamluks I get Ottomans to release Serbia/Bulgaria/Greece. Instead of waiting ten years, Ottomans waited till one of those countries allied some other country, declare on that country, took back their cores, and white peace the allied country. Repeat 2 more times.
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Nov 25, 2017 14:40
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Doesn't it just mean you wasted an entire war and a bunch of diplo points for no benefit at all?
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Nov 25, 2017 15:01
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Groogy posted:Design it self can have bugs. It's not limited to programming. Report these issues on the forum. Sorry I'm not going to remember this on Monday. Also if you find a sick joy in telling me what I do is poo poo, consider applying here. https://career.paradoxplaza.com/jobs/46502-qa-tester Poil posted:Doesn't it just mean you wasted an entire war and a bunch of diplo points for no benefit at all?
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Nov 25, 2017 15:04
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Poil posted:Doesn't it just mean you wasted an entire war and a bunch of diplo points for no benefit at all? I meant took back their cores as in, they separate peace for the cores, before whitepeace with the main country.
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Nov 25, 2017 16:50
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canepazzo posted:I meant took back their cores as in, they separate peace for the cores, before whitepeace with the main country.
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Nov 25, 2017 17:10
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Well it also means that they spend a bunch more years embroiled in wars, which should prevent them from conquering new stuff But yeah seems making big nations release smaller ones isn't the best plan if the ai is so smart about it
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Nov 25, 2017 17:18
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