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Kaysette posted:A few got a chuckle out of me. The gloom stalker one about sneaking in the dark is funny since it calls out the darkvision bloat in 5e. Man that bothers me the most. All the loving PHB races except like two get darkvision or low-light vision so what's the fuckin' point? I gave up in my game of describing lighting because everyone in my party had natural darkvision and I ended up giving the human night goggles to round it out.
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Nov 24, 2017 20:53
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Malpais Legate posted:... low-light vision ... Does this exist somewhere in the rules? I thought they just simplified it all to darkvision? I always thought low light vision was pretty simple as it was and it gave some variety to the races a bit.
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Nov 24, 2017 21:19
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DarkAvenger211 posted:Does this exist somewhere in the rules? I thought they just simplified it all to darkvision? I always thought low light vision was pretty simple as it was and it gave some variety to the races a bit. All the PHB races are either nothing, darkvision, or superior darkvision.
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Nov 24, 2017 21:28
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Bring back infravision and ultravision!
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Nov 24, 2017 21:35
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Oh god. I just read through Xanathar’s and it’s like an example of everything I dislike about 5e. New fighter paths. Look interesting. Except the designer forgot how champion was supposed to be a special case path for people who didn’t want to think too much, and the other original parts all added more options. These ones don’t. Oops. To commit a crime during downtime you have to spend at least 25 gold pieces casing the joint. Wow, those must be some crime free cities if no commoner can ever commit a crime because they can’t afford it. If your perception is high enough, you can be woken up by a whisper. This is immediately followed by the rules from failing to sleep. I guess high Perception characters are likely to be becoming extremely familiar with these rules. Common magic armour that never gets dirty. Again they forgot wearing this has a substantial cost: not wearing any other kind of magic armour. So I guess to make it worth it all your party members wearing +1 armour now have to remember to wash it. A trap left in a jester’s tomb that has two open magic portals and a boulder rolling between them. So is jester either was, or could recruit, an 18th level wizard. Or maybe he just had the unlimited license to do and build cool stuff that comes from not being a player character.
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Nov 24, 2017 21:40
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So I got myself into a Curse of Strahd game at a local convention, made a Dwarf Barbarian and had a good ol' time. Might get the chance to continue playing him with the same DM/Group. I'd already decided I wanted to go Ancestral Guardian with him for backstory reasons, but I kinda dig the thought of doing a 1-2 level dip into Grave Domain Cleric as well. The anti-undead stuff, plus some general utility from non-concentration cantrips and spells seemed like it'd be pretty neat. That and if the options are limited I can just pump Inflict Wounds into things too. Is there anything about the idea that just doesn't work? Maybe another type of Domain that'd work better mechanically? Or would it just be better full on to focus on Barbarian and worry about any multi-class dipping way later?
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Nov 24, 2017 21:42
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ProfessorCirno posted:Yeah, nobody's brought it up yet, but Xanathar's is filled with "hilarious" commentary by the so-named Beholder, and it's truly banal. The idea isn’t bad but in practice it’s trying waaaay too hard to be ~wAcKy~
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Nov 24, 2017 21:43
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ProfessorCirno posted:Yeah, nobody's brought it up yet, but Xanathar's is filled with "hilarious" commentary by the so-named Beholder, and it's truly banal. It's a long standing tradition of FR sourcebooks to have those kinds of asides, so it's nice to see at least one nod to the Realms in there. hyphz posted:Oh god. I just read through Xanathar’s and it’s like an example of everything I dislike about 5e. I think you are focusing way too much on game rules as the reality of the world. 5e isn't great, but it didn't follow that horrible train of thought from the 3e playerbase. Two-bit thieves don't use the PC downtime rules for heists; you're making the Perception rules out to be a problem because you want them to be; trapmaking by NPCs doesn't need to follow the rules of PC spellcasting. Please leave Trollman and the peasant railgun behind and GROW UP.
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Nov 24, 2017 21:48
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hyphz posted:Common magic armour that never gets dirty. Again they forgot wearing this has a substantial cost: not wearing any other kind of magic armour. So I guess to make it worth it all your party members wearing +1 armour now have to remember to wash it. Of all the things to gripe about, you're going to pick this nonsense critique of the fluffy fun magic items? I agree that it's a mistake to think that NPCs work like PCs rules-wise.
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Nov 24, 2017 21:55
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Arivia posted:I think you are focusing way too much on game rules as the reality of the world. 5e isn't great, but it didn't follow that horrible train of thought from the 3e playerbase. Two-bit thieves don't use the PC downtime rules for heists; you're making the Perception rules out to be a problem because you want them to be; trapmaking by NPCs doesn't need to follow the rules of PC spellcasting. I can accept rules that don't match the reality of the world, but I can't accept them when they make the world worse for the PCs than for NPCs, because then the PCs no longer feel like heroes in the setting. If a two-bit thief can rob a struggling merchant without paying 25 gp to case the joint, doesn't that imply that they're a better thief than my 10th level Rogue? If a court jester - and a fantasy one at that, who probably isn't a significant political advisor - can lay hands on epic spellcasting, why can't we? If the bad guy's cloak can billow dramatically when he speaks, yet we can't infer from that it's a Cloak of Billowing and therefore not a Cloak of Resistance, then why does he get better stuff than us? I mean, those common items start to come close to the "you can't throw sand in an enemy's eyes without this feat" error - codifying fun fluff into the rules in a way that gives them greater costs.
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Nov 24, 2017 22:05
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Splicer posted:Barbarians recovering from exhaustion from a short rather than a long rest no matter what the source is honestly barbariany as heck. I'd probably chuck something like "whenever a barbarian gains a condition, they lose all other conditions" later on, which would cover exhaustion as well.
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Nov 24, 2017 22:24
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Pleads posted:Yeah someone earlier had this as part of a pally build. It sounds good mechanically, but I gotta see how group comp works out and also whether the character would do it. He's an ostentatious person so the sword and shield look will be important to him. If it helps, an adventurer using a polearm in a D&D context wouldn't really follow the typical European tradition that one thinks of, where they largely existed amidst a bunch of dudes wielding identical polearms and forming spear walls, simply because an adventuring party doesn't have the numbers to make those tactics effective. Instead, I expect an adventurer wielding a polearm would look a lot more like a wuxia spear-wielder like Donnie Yen in Hero... Maybe with less flying if your party's magic user isn't cooperative and/or your GM is boring. What I'm saying is that a polearm user in D&D is probably gonna look very stylish on the battlefield, so if your dude's ostentatious that shouldn't be an obstacle to using a polearm.
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Nov 24, 2017 22:32
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You want ostentatious? He wears a sword because gentlemen wear swords. It's a very expensive, flashy sword. It's probably got a gilded hilt with gemstones set in the pommel, and red velvet inside the filigree'd basketing. The blade is mirror polished and he's mastered drawing it so it catches the light dramatically. It'll intimidate the peasantry and impress the impressionable. He chooses to fight with an unornamented blunt stick instead because gently caress you, pleb.
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Nov 24, 2017 23:07
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Pleads posted:I found a fun-sounding Pal 6/Bard X build that I was going to give a shot, again going for the melee spellcaster. The setup as presented is a bad plan. You should either stick to Paladin till level 6 and then start leveling Bard, or go Paladin 2 and then proceed on Bard till 6 (for CHA-based Shillelagh through Magical Secrets) before going back to Paladin. If you really want to use a longsword (or for that matter any other 1h weapon that's not a Quarterstaff), then absolutely stick to Paladin initially and pick up Shield Master so you have something useful to do with your Bonus Actions and later on Expertise in Athletics.
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Nov 24, 2017 23:19
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Falstaff posted:If it helps, an adventurer using a polearm in a D&D context wouldn't really follow the typical European tradition that one thinks of, where they largely existed amidst a bunch of dudes wielding identical polearms and forming spear walls, simply because an adventuring party doesn't have the numbers to make those tactics effective. It's depressing since the game is supposed to be based on western traditions and it ignores so many of them. Polearms became necessary to deal with plate. They came in a million different styles, a lot of which probably boiled down to what the blacksmith thought would work best. In first edition they did have all the pole arms but no good way to distinguish between them and other weapons. In 5th they have pole arm mastery which is great but they kind of skimped on the weapon side of things. Here's a training manual from the middle ages covering pole axes.  another thing that happened a lot was the murder stroke. Wield a two handed weapon by the blade and strike an enemy in the head.  And halfswording. Grabbing the blade to use the weapon as a spear.  You won't see those in d&d very often because there's literally no reason to bring them up. There's no rules advantage, so it gets drowned out in the meh. I should post something more constructive. Where to get information in a town tends to boil down to I go to the tavern. It's a staple of the genre, but honestly most locals probably didn't show up there to often. Booze is expensive and peasants are poor. Other places I've started making a thing. Well/water source. Every house is sending somebody here at least once a day. It's literally the first water cooler people gossiped over. Ovens. Medieval had communal ovens, peasants brought in their bread and baked it there for a fee. It was a good source of revenue for the lord. Also a good place to pick up gossip as you have a bunch of people hanging around. The guy running the ovens is also a good potential minor npc. It's an important position and it's easy enough to over charge and keep the difference. Mill- Like the ovens the peasants were required to used the lords mill and pay a fee. Cobbler- This ones a bit different. Most people make their own clothes, but shoes tend to be a skilled craft. The poorest won't show up here, but if you can afford it you would. To get shoes made or repaired. Since shoes have to be fitted to the person, they have to show up. The cobbler probably knows who's in town better then most.
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Nov 24, 2017 23:59
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ProfessorCirno posted:Yeah, nobody's brought it up yet, but Xanathar's is filled with "hilarious" commentary by the so-named Beholder, and it's truly banal. I like the humor but have a problem with inconsistent voice. Sometimes he's commenting like he's reading the book, sometimes it's in conversation with someone, sometimes it's just musing on a similar topic.
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Nov 25, 2017 00:15
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hyphz posted:
I think you missing the fact that the reason you are giving up some money is because you are actually doing this with good planning versus running in and stabbing anyone that tries to stop you. Like I see the money being spent as stuff like bribes so that guards are not in the area at the time of the crime, you actually buying things so your not just a loitering checking out the weaknesses of the place. You are free to sneak in and preform crimes in game however you want. This downtime activity is proper planned crimes.
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Nov 25, 2017 00:29
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Throwing Turtles posted:It's depressing since the game is supposed to be based on western traditions and it ignores so many of them. Polearms became necessary to deal with plate. They came in a million different styles, a lot of which probably boiled down to what the blacksmith thought would work best. In first edition they did have all the pole arms but no good way to distinguish between them and other weapons. In 5th they have pole arm mastery which is great but they kind of skimped on the weapon side of things. yeah, the combat's too abstracted for that stuff to really matter, plus it'd break down fighting against Dragons and poo poo. Overall that's a good thing, I think. quote:I should post something more constructive. My next character is going to join the village grandma knitting circle and learn from the gossip, as well as getting a neat scarf and beanie.
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Nov 25, 2017 00:53
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MonsterEnvy posted:I think you missing the fact that the reason you are giving up some money is because you are actually doing this with good planning versus running in and stabbing anyone that tries to stop you. Like I see the money being spent as stuff like bribes so that guards are not in the area at the time of the crime, you actually buying things so your not just a loitering checking out the weaknesses of the place. But that brings us back to the same problem. If an NPC who doesn't have 25GP can get away with the crime without being caught, in spite of being unable to do the careful planning, then they are apparently a superior thief to a 10th or even 20th level PC Rogue who does have to spend the 25GP. Per the rules, if they don't pay, it's not just riskier, it's impossible - the PC doesn't even get to roll. (I'd be much less annoyed if there was a penalty to the rolls involved if you didn't plan/pay.) If an NPC who doesn't have the 25GP can never get away with the crime without being caught, then there would be no commoner thieves, because they would all get caught. It is generally a bad idea to try to quantify activities with rigid rules like this, especially something like "commit a crime" which could be all sorts of things. But it is doubly stupid where the rules have artificial PC-centric negative properties or restrictions. hyphz fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Nov 25, 2017 |
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Nov 25, 2017 00:54
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Throwing Turtles posted:Where to get information in a town tends to boil down to I go to the tavern. It's a staple of the genre, but honestly most locals probably didn't show up there to often. Booze is expensive and peasants are poor. That's because, and I am going off second hand info here so I could be wrong, people tend to think of them as an American style bar, and not the traveller's pub/tavern/inn they were. Locals absolutely are going to gather there, as will actual families, because it's not just a place to drink (though it is certainly that, and booze was not expensive, it was a part of your daily meal), it's a place to eat, and socialize as well. It's in the name - the pub is, well, the public house. It's where everyone can - and did - gather. It's also basically the only real place to meet up with others. Really, a lot of it boils down to Gygax and most early fantasy authors taking the bits of medieval life they didn't know - which was a lot - and filling it in with...well, mostly Wild West poo poo. I'm serious, D&D is extremely Wild West (most likely in no small part due to Gygax's libertarian leanings). Bar fights and outlaw duels and a local sheriff with his deputy, all centered around a boom town. So taverns go from being public meeting halls mixed with restaurants and turn into saloons where everyone's drinking, gambling, scowling in a dark corner, or a mixture of all of the above. hyphz posted:But that brings us back to the same problem. Why does it literally matter how much gold an NPC has until you try to rob them? How would you even know? This is why I despise 3.x so much. It brainwashed a bunch of people into confusing "roleplaying" for metagaming. I mean I'm not gonna defend the downtime rules because I don't really know 'em, but this is a dumb complaint.
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Nov 25, 2017 01:21
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ProfessorCirno posted:
Honestly this trend should be encouraged.
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Nov 25, 2017 01:29
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Pleads posted:Yeah someone earlier had this as part of a pally build. It sounds good mechanically, but I gotta see how group comp works out and also whether the character would do it. He's an ostentatious person so the sword and shield look will be important to him. Late on this but I'm currently playing a PAM Paladin and I wanted to be a little more flashy than "halfling with a stick". I wound up: Carving my staff into a cool walking stick. Since the campaign is about a rebellion it helped him stay armed in covert missions. Bonus points for winding an emergency sling around it as a "handgrip" When we started openly challenging the crown I tied the Rebel Battle Standard to my staff and started beating the hell out of people with it. I'm loving this option because when I smite I get to say cheesy poo poo like "Feel the fury of the oppressed!" And "Taste the light of liberty!"
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Nov 25, 2017 01:50
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rumble in the bunghole posted:yeah, the combat's too abstracted for that stuff to really matter, plus it'd break down fighting against Dragons and poo poo. Overall that's a good thing, I think. Yeah it is an abstract system and most of the time(D&D all of the time most likely) it's not worth the effort of putting mechanics to it. But there's 2000 years of different fighting styles that from an entertainment perspective have kind of been lost to time. So I like to point them out so people have another way to think of their character. ProfessorCirno posted:That's because, and I am going off second hand info here so I could be wrong, people tend to think of them as an American style bar, and not the traveller's pub/tavern/inn they were. Locals absolutely are going to gather there, as will actual families, because it's not just a place to drink (though it is certainly that, and booze was not expensive, it was a part of your daily meal), it's a place to eat, and socialize as well.
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Nov 25, 2017 02:20
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ProfessorCirno posted:Why does it literally matter how much gold an NPC has until you try to rob them? I get that it's sort of a Frank Trollman-esque argument to call the heist rules bad because they completely break if you project them onto the rest of the world, but the crux of it is that it shouldn't be defined in that way in the first place. If we're going to hand-wave away these "logical conclusions" to the effects of needing 25g to execute a crime, then the rule is bad to begin with. "Ignore the rule for NPCs, because a peasant shouldn't literally need 25g all the time to steal something" "Ignore the rule for PCs depending on how elaborate your heist is. Don't dock the players 25g if it's a quick smash-and-grab or purse-snatch that might not even yield back the cost of it" Sure, okay, but if the rule is begging to be ignored, that makes it a bad rule.
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Nov 25, 2017 02:59
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mango sentinel posted:I like the humor but have a problem with inconsistent voice. Sometimes he's commenting like he's reading the book, sometimes it's in conversation with someone, sometimes it's just musing on a similar topic. Well... quote:The Eye, as he was originally known, was an ancient, wrinkled, and paranoid beholder of the Graypeaks Hive.
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Nov 25, 2017 03:11
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Throwing Turtles posted:I'm not sure but I think what people think of when they hit the tavern in D&D is probably unique to itself. The old west saloon is probably the closest you would get. But in a world where heavily armed people randomly travel the world and even the average person is far more mobile then you would get in history it makes sense. These were just things I use to mix it up a bit. Asking the kids getting water at the well about the haunted wood gets a different answer then the local tavern. And about the knitting circle, needlepoint and embroidery were a big deal. Especially among the nobility. So that's going on the list as well. I don't disagree, but... In the late 1500s to early 1600s, there was a trend for the local tavern/whatever (ie, a hall, kitchen, stables, and attached accommodations in one or several buildings) to really be used as a "public house" as it's seen in D&D games. It's a fairly short time period that it happened in, and it ended when the Church got the shits with weddings, preaching, and other church-specific stuff happening at the pub instead of at church. There were laws passed in England that forbid various stuff from being done in the pub, including weddings, funerals, etc as well as other stuff that I seriously can't remember. I think around the same time or just a bit earlier, the "roadside inns" in parts of the continent - eastern france through germany, from memory - were getting pretty big and in some cases somewhat fortified (nominally against "bandits" or "vagabonds" or "deserters" or whatever), to the point where the "innkeepers" would charge "tolls" for the use of the road, totally unofficial and unsanctioned by the crown, but backed up by "I have 30 armed men and a building that's functionally a small fortress". (I could be wrong about locations or years, but I'm pretty sure I've got the gist of this right.)
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Nov 25, 2017 04:17
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There's also, like, the entirety of the Canterbury Tales, which is all about a bunch of medieval travelers from different walks of life meeting each other at a roadside inn while on a pilgrimage, then proceeding to have a giant rap battle to see who can deliver the sickest burn - with the prize being a free meal. The story was completed* by 1400, and was set in contemporary times. The sort of inn depicted in those stories really isn't too far a cry from an adventurer's meeting place. (* There's no consensus on whether or not it was actually completed, but the final story was added to the work by 1400.)
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Nov 25, 2017 04:39
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AlphaDog posted:You want ostentatious? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EA0RzbUdMk&t=660s
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Nov 25, 2017 04:48
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gradenko_2000 posted:I get that it's sort of a Frank Trollman-esque argument to call the heist rules bad because they completely break if you project them onto the rest of the world, but the crux of it is that it shouldn't be defined in that way in the first place. The Downtime is assuming they are taking 5 days or so to prepare, research and preform a heist on a target. If you or some thug are doing a purse snatch they make a slight of hand check and that is it.
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Nov 25, 2017 06:01
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MonsterEnvy posted:You are misunderstanding what this is. Downtime is something that happens off screen in the background. If you are doing crime stuff in game you don't follow these rules. Anyone who is not the PCs (or some other successful murderhobo) probably doesnt have 25gp to spend "planning" ever, so there is a major narrative gap created in "how does i rob tavern".
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Nov 25, 2017 07:15
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Speaking of money someone should create a thing that pegs the ratio value of precious metal coins (by size and weight) to actual currency exchanges, and that way every time you sit down to play DnD you can check to see what that copper is really worth in relation to This would of course require rewriting all the books so that various local currencies are defined by purity and weight per coin. Someone tell WotC their CBG needs a new set of boosters. edit - but at last we would finally be able to assign sensible costs to chickens, barstools, and 10' poles. The loving "Adventurer Supply Store" scam has gone on long enough.
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Nov 25, 2017 07:18
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MonsterEnvy posted:You are misunderstanding what this is. Downtime is something that happens off screen in the background. If you are doing crime stuff in game you don't follow these rules. Which set of rules do I use if I want to snatch bags off screen in the background during my downtime instead of somehow spending 25x an unskilled laborer's weekly income on planning my heist? Why do I have to use a preformed heist? I'd prefer to make my own custom one so they're not expecting it. Why would small hands help me snatch bags? You'd think big hands would be better.
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Nov 25, 2017 07:24
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FRINGE posted:That might be the way it is intended, but the point they are making is that this is in-world stupid narratively. Why theives guilds and such would do lots of spending and planning. A normal thief would just pick pockets or break into a building rather then preform a complicated heist. The Downtime is pretty much explicitly preforming heists. Here rather then just say stuff I will just post the section let you judge it for yourself.   It's not supposed to be much. Just something you can do between sessions and or when your character has a lot of in game free time. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 07:54 on Nov 25, 2017 |
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Nov 25, 2017 07:52
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Everyone understands the words. It is just a silly thing.
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Nov 25, 2017 08:17
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I think complaining about the downtime heist rules is a bit silly because they're basically an abstraction of one particular activity, not meant to cover every type of crime, but I'm a bit confused by something else in those tables. Some of those complications assume that you stole something (eg "A bounty equal to your earnings", "Your target is financially ruined"). However, in many cases they'll only come up when you roll one success... in which case you didn't actually succeed at the heist. I suppose maybe you made off with all their loot and then accidentally dropped it in the river?
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Nov 25, 2017 10:18
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Zandar posted:Some of those complications assume that you stole something (eg "A bounty equal to your earnings", "Your target is financially ruined"). However, in many cases they'll only come up when you roll one success... in which case you didn't actually succeed at the heist. Congratulations, you have now read the rules more closely than the person who wrote them did. Also, can other downtime activities knock you out of adventuring for 2-40 weeks if you fail your checks? Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 10:32 on Nov 25, 2017 |
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Nov 25, 2017 10:28
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AlphaDog posted:Congratulations, you have now read the rules more closely than the person who wrote them did. Gambling has a low chance of you being thrown in jail from checking. Most of the others are plot hook and side stuff like offending a Knight who challenges you to a joust.
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Nov 25, 2017 10:43
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MonsterEnvy posted:Gambling has a low chance of you being thrown in jail from checking. Most of the others are plot hook and side stuff like offending a Knight who challenges you to a joust. Gambling has no chance of sending you to jail for failing your checks. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 10:59 on Nov 25, 2017 |
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Nov 25, 2017 10:56
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AlphaDog posted:Gambling has no chance of sending you to jail for failing your checks. Unless you put it in a videogame (topicaaaalll)
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Nov 25, 2017 11:02
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AlphaDog posted:Gambling has no chance of sending you to jail for failing your checks. I know that. When I said checking I meant from checking the book. The 10% chance of a complication happening has a 1 in 6 chance of sending you to jail.
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Nov 25, 2017 12:05
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