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Leperflesh posted:probably a bunch of trump voters were just protest-voting on the assumption hillary was certain to win, too. voters are stupid, let's bring back monarchy there were dozens of random bullshit factors that went against hillary that if even one had not broke for trump she would have won every one of them broke for trump lol
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Nov 26, 2017 23:33
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Leperflesh posted:probably a bunch of trump voters were just protest-voting on the assumption hillary was certain to win, too. voters are stupid, let's bring back monarchy A friend of mine told me he voted for Trump "for the lols" I was speechless.
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Nov 26, 2017 23:33
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Flikken posted:A friend of mine told me he voted for Trump "for the lols" I was speechless. I assume you were speechless because it's really hard to speak when you're mouth is full of the flesh of their jugular?
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Nov 26, 2017 23:35
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FizFashizzle posted:there were dozens of random bullshit factors that went against hillary that if even one had not broke for trump she would have won Yeah alienating an important group of voters who reside primarily in key states sure was random
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Nov 26, 2017 23:41
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I got in a fight with my father in law for the third straight niners game because I said "the world doesn't need billionaires" ama
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Nov 26, 2017 23:47
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Yeah it’s dangerous to pretend trump was elected by luck or mistake. Ignoring what’s wrong with the Democratic Party isn’t going to help fix it, ya know
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Nov 26, 2017 23:47
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Amy Pole Her posted:Yeah it’s dangerous to pretend trump was elected by luck or mistake. Ignoring what’s wrong with the Democratic Party isn’t going to help fix it, ya know The issues going on in the Dem party is one factor. As Fiz said, all factors went in Trump's favor.
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Nov 26, 2017 23:49
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3 DONG HORSE posted:Yeah alienating an important group of voters who reside primarily in key states sure was random I....didn't say that?
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Nov 26, 2017 23:50
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Amy Pole Her posted:Yeah it’s dangerous to pretend trump was elected by luck or mistake. Ignoring what’s wrong with the Democratic Party isn’t going to help fix it, ya know I really am wishing for a multi party coalition system so it's not just choice A or B.
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Nov 26, 2017 23:53
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Amy Pole Her posted:Yeah it’s dangerous to pretend trump was elected by luck or mistake. Ignoring what’s wrong with the Democratic Party isn’t going to help fix it, ya know It's something that's hard to admit in an echo chamber that there happens to be other, louder echo chambers out there in America.
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Nov 26, 2017 23:53
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Thaddius the Large posted:My mom always made Paul Prudhomme’s Cajun Potato Salad, and I do love it something fierce. Quoting this so I can find it later
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Nov 26, 2017 23:55
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seiferguy posted:The issues going on in the Dem party is one factor. As Fiz said, all factors went in Trump's favor. I’ll give you there are other contributing factors but you’re nuts if you don’t think it’s the # 1 reason.
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Nov 26, 2017 23:55
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Nov 26, 2017 23:57
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There's no number 1 reason trump happened; there are dozens of reasons talking about how unlikely his victory was doesn't minimize any of the factors that led to it.
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Nov 26, 2017 23:57
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FizFashizzle posted:I....didn't say that? Then I have no idea what you mean because I can't think of any combination that would trump Clinton's strategic decisions.
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Nov 27, 2017 00:14
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3 DONG HORSE posted:Then I have no idea what you mean because I can't think of any combination that would trump Clinton's strategic decisions. Trump getting the nomination took a whole lot of weird poo poo going on in this country. There's no defending Clinton's decisions, but these are definitely weird times and they all happened to line up exactly for Trump.
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Nov 27, 2017 00:19
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Leperflesh posted:probably a bunch of trump voters were just protest-voting on the assumption hillary was certain to win, too. voters are stupid, let's bring back monarchy Hobbes Was Right
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Nov 27, 2017 00:24
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Grittybeard posted:Trump getting the nomination took a whole lot of weird poo poo going on in this country. There's no defending Clinton's decisions, but these are definitely weird times and they all happened to line up exactly for Trump. Clinton ignoring a large group of voters had a greater effect than any of that, which was not random but a conscious decision.
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Nov 27, 2017 00:27
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i know who im voting for in 2020
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Nov 27, 2017 00:31
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3 DONG HORSE posted:Clinton ignoring a large group of voters had a greater effect than any of that, which was not random but a conscious decision. I doubt anyone would argue that. Regardless, that alone was probably not enough to turn the election. Tons of other poo poo had to happen too. And it all did. I don't think this is a controversial opinion. FizFashizzle fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Nov 27, 2017 |
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Nov 27, 2017 00:33
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Sour Diesel posted:i know who im voting for in 2020 hell ya!!
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Nov 27, 2017 00:44
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https://twitter.com/MichaelWBratton/status/934901933189599232 https://twitter.com/EMsStTE/status/934903672693194753
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Nov 27, 2017 00:55
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Nov 27, 2017 01:02
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Flikken posted:I really am wishing for a multi party coalition system so it's not just choice A or B. Speaking as a dirty foreigner, I do feel like the multi party system we have here works really well (Netherlands). In the last 5 elections I've voted for 3 different parties because they aligned better with my opinions at the time. It seems crazy to me to have essentially an A and B choice with independents mixed in who will never win anyway so they become somewhat of a wasted vote. I'm also not trying to say that the Dutch system is perfect. We basically elected an insane racist to run the major opposition party. At least he didn't win the general election.
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Nov 27, 2017 01:05
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The problem with the idea of a multi party system in the US is it's going to last all of one election until the parties coalesce with each other to again create two opposing "coalition" parties.
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Nov 27, 2017 01:07
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The united states does kind of have a coalition government. Like even at the national level, congress certainly are made up of numerous factions of people that have competing and contradictory ideas of what's important, what goals should be, how government should be run, etc. Like, the left is the obvious example, since it fractures every chance it gets. But the right is just as disorganized. At the national level, they clearly can't accomplish anything. the House ACA repeal was only passed because they knew it wouldn't survive the senate. they're held hostage by the house freedom lunatics, and the blue state republicans, and your various other ghouls and morons. On a state level, being a republican means something different in any state. Like being a republican in montana is a poo poo load different than being one in roswell, georgia. the bigger problems are the senate and the executive. the house in and of itself is not that big of a problem. I mean republicans are going to be destroyed in 2018. Then the left will be free to consume itself with purity tests and actually passing legislation for the right wing to run against.
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Nov 27, 2017 01:14
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clinton lost three key states that normally go blue, by around one percent (half a percent In two, and over one percent in one). Every factor which affected the vote in those states by one percent, is a factor which lost her the election. Some factors had a big influence and some were small. But any factor that flips those states is "the reason hillary lost" and that's inarguable, it's just how the election works. Similarly, flip florida with iirc a three point move and those three states don't matter. There were a ton of paths to a clinton victory and almost none for a trump victory. That's why there are so many factors that mattered. So: yeah. Hatred of hillary stoked by decades of right wing venom directed her way mattered; democratic incompetence mattered; hillary's strategic mistakes mattered; sexism mattered; the fbi email bullshit mattered; the weather mattered; voter suppression mattered; allll of it mattered.
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Nov 27, 2017 01:29
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I've always thought it'd be kinda cool if we kill the richest 1 per cent and spread their money around to the lower classes.
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Nov 27, 2017 01:29
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The USA, for all intents and purposes, are a cultural and political barometer for the rest of the world so excuse me if these questions are stupid but:FizFashizzle posted:But the right is just as disorganized. At the national level, they clearly can't accomplish anything. the House ACA repeal was only passed because they knew it wouldn't survive the senate. they're held hostage by the house freedom lunatics, and the blue state republicans, and your various other ghouls and morons. Shimrra Jamaane posted:The problem with the idea of a multi party system in the US is it's going to last all of one election until the parties coalesce with each other to again create two opposing "coalition" parties. This to me seems like a major problem since you don't get to weed out the crazy people from the party. Everyone is considered part of the same political ideology whether it be a somewhat conservative republican or a hard right red state conservative. Why do people still congregate to the same party even though they differ substantially from one and other in political beliefs? FizFashizzle posted:the bigger problems are the senate and the executive. the house in and of itself is not that big of a problem. I mean republicans are going to be destroyed in 2018. Then the left will be free to consume itself with purity tests and actually passing legislation for the right wing to run against. Doesn't this create a vicious cycle where one extreme makes the next one worse? If there can never be a middle ground between two extremes doesn't that just ensure perpetual escalation (Trump being a prime example of one extreme)? MalarkeyToboggan fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Nov 27, 2017 |
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Nov 27, 2017 01:38
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MalarkeyToboggan posted:This to me seems like a major problem since you don't get to weed out the crazy people from the party. Everyone is considered part of the same political ideology whether it be a somewhat conservative republican or a hard right red state conservative. Why do people still congregate to the same party even though they differ substantially from one and other in political beliefs? Every country has crazy politicians. Brexit didn't happen because Nigel Farange got weeded out at a lower level. What you're asking is a massive question, due to the sheer size of the United States. If I had to try to blame it on one main thing though, it's that over the past twenty years democrats simply stopped running/paying attention to people in very rural/rust belty type/conservative places. Part of this was them taking them for granted, part was them thinking there was no point, part of this was failures in policy/strategy, part of this was the assumption that they'd always have some magical top ballot candidate to get out the vote. One of the biggest initiatives in the aftermath of trump has been just getting people to run, and in the first large scale election it was massively successful. That state house district in virginia led by a guy writing TG bathroom legislation? Beaten by a transititoned reporter who plays guitar in a metal band that simply ran on improving roads. It's not impossible, and I'm confident they've learned a lesson. quote:Doesn't this create a vicious cycle where one extreme makes the next one worse? If there can never be a middle ground between two extremes doesn't that just ensure perpetual escalation (Trump being a prime example of one extreme)? Yes, it's called the Overton Window and it's been shifting steadily right for the past thirty years. However, this can just more accurately be blamed on the failure of the left to really offer anything substantive politically.
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Nov 27, 2017 01:49
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The Democratic party isn't wholly or even mostly left, except in comparison to a Republican Party that's full of batshit religious fanatics, white power human garbage and business trash that will do anything for tax cuts and deregulation.
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Nov 27, 2017 01:56
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yeah, the left needs to dramatically improve their offerings to push for change. conservative ideology, by its nature, has a built in advantage of being able to just say “no” if all else fails because the system is already bent to their benefit. of course, they’re now stuck unable to do anything besides that, so there is still an opportunity there for the left.
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Nov 27, 2017 01:56
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Bernie would've won
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Nov 27, 2017 02:00
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FizFashizzle posted:Every country has crazy politicians. Brexit didn't happen because Nigel Farange got weeded out at a lower level. FizFashizzle posted:What you're asking is a massive question, due to the sheer size of the United States. I know it's an impossible question to answer since it deals with 200 years of American political history. The last elections do seem to be swinging the pendulum back in the opposite direction which should be applauded especially in states like Virginia.
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Nov 27, 2017 02:06
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An alternate universe where the democratic party wasn't ran by an inner cabal that hand picks candidates that will do whatever the party says and the republicans could come up with someone who wasn't a complete dud or scumbag so someone like trump would never sniff the primaries
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Nov 27, 2017 02:07
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Doltos posted:An alternate universe where the democratic party wasn't ran by an inner cabal that hand picks candidates that will do whatever the party says and the republicans could come up with someone who wasn't a complete dud or scumbag so someone like trump would never sniff the primaries Ojala de dios quiere
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Nov 27, 2017 02:15
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I would just like to take this time to thank TFF. You guys own. This is the only football related forum that isn't Right Wing old man poo poo. Y'all own.
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Nov 27, 2017 02:21
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Yaws posted:Bernie would've won Probably. But he'd be able to accomplish exactly jack poo poo with a Republican controlled Congress attacking him at every turn.
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Nov 27, 2017 02:22
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Probably. But he'd be able to accomplish exactly jack poo poo with a Republican controlled Congress attacking him at every turn. True, but he wouldn't execute Trumps awful Executive Orders
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Nov 27, 2017 02:27
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Probably. But he'd be able to accomplish exactly jack poo poo with a Republican controlled Congress attacking him at every turn. What Trump has done through EO would obviously have not been done. The census wouldn't be a disaster, the ME wouldn't be devolving into whatever is happening there, the US is still in Paris Climate Accords, who knows what happens with TPP. Trump has managed to gently caress up a lot of serious poo poo. It remains to be seen if the GOP would have blocked all his judicial nominations (SC mainly) or appointments et al like they did with Obama. I'm not sure how that would have gone. Obviously their plan with hillary was just to throw horseshit investigations at her and coast to some more election victories. I certainly don't think we'd see this level of dissatisfaction with the GOP over the lack of progress and complete national poo poo show things have become if Bernie was in there. I don't want to say Trump will be a good thing long term, because he's a complete monster, but......hope?
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Nov 27, 2017 02:27
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