Star Citizen: Death of a Space Thread?

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Jobbo_Fett: Mar 7, 2014; Slava Ukrayini; Clapping Larry

Uh-oh Spaghetti Code!

# ? Nov 27, 2017 19:05

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# ? May 21, 2024 20:25

Lladre: Jun 28, 2011; Soiled Meat

XK posted:

no

Unless you're coding for a bot that makes microsecond trades on a direct line to a stock exchange, nobody is going to care.

Resident grumpy old code monkey spotted.

# ? Nov 27, 2017 19:07

Dusty Lens: Jul 1, 2015; All Glory unto the Stimpire. Give up your arms and legs and embrace the beautiful agony of electricity that doubles in pain every second.

Yeah I guess all CIG needs to worry about is maybe delivering a game someday if that's even a legal requirement for their business model.

# ? Nov 27, 2017 19:07

Hav: Dec 11, 2009; Fun Shoe

Zzr posted:

How can it be different ? UK is a puppet state of the US since 1943.

Only small sections of it in strategic locations, such as a couple of intercept cupboards in GCHQ that will be forever Maryland. The Orford Ness and Menwith Hills installations. Machrihanish, although since they built the golf course it's been a bit less secret.

Dunno, I defected. :patriot:

Passed my civics exam and managed not to answer 'yes' to any of the questions about genocide and torture.

XK posted:

no

Unless you're coding for a bot that makes microsecond trades on a direct line to a stock exchange, nobody is going to care.

Ad-bidding is the new hotness for low latency. Same poo poo, different day of the week.

# ? Nov 27, 2017 19:09

Combat Theory: Jul 16, 2017

thatguy posted:

Someone code something that automatically skips all code-related posts in this thread.

Put it behind another paywall imo

# ? Nov 27, 2017 19:09

XK: Jul 9, 2001; Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

Do it in Bash and tell them they need to buy more processing time.

# ? Nov 27, 2017 19:10

Hav: Dec 11, 2009; Fun Shoe

Combat Theory posted:

Put it behind another paywall imo

Maybe some kind of block list.

# ? Nov 27, 2017 19:11

dogboy: Jul 21, 2009; hurr; Grimey Drawer

We could move this thread to YOSPOS for a few days, what can possibly go wrong?

# ? Nov 27, 2017 19:14

Hav: Dec 11, 2009; Fun Shoe

dogboy posted:

We could move this thread to YOSPOS for a few days, what can possibly go wrong?

Reality could form a pocket, nipping off a section of spacetime while you're all subjected to a war over bracing styles other than the one true style, BSD. Then CiG would have won. Do you want CiG to win?

Speaking of CiG;
https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/303912

Bunch of ways to spot a bad pitch;
* Over-estimating the market size
* Name-dropping
* No product or no customers

# ? Nov 27, 2017 19:18

Slow_Moe: Feb 18, 2013

dogboy posted:

We could move this thread to YOSPOS for a few days, what can possibly go wrong?

We could all be bithcing about greenPOS vs amberPOS.

# ? Nov 27, 2017 19:25

G0RF: Mar 19, 2015; Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

thatguy posted:

Someone code something that automatically skips all code-related posts in this thread.

I once programmed in BASIC what I would now charitably describe as a text-based battle arena game - basically RNG rolls determined success and progression to the next battle.

Five or six increasingly difficult monsters cribbed from Gygax�s Deities & Demigods, with the last being a 1 in something like 20 chance to defeat. I don�t remember the specific values but basically it was a difficulty curve where the player (me) had to beat a 75% chance, then 50%, then 25%, then 10%, then 5%. Any failure meant death and forced restart.

I don�t even remember how many hours I spent until I finally rolled all victories but I eventually did. It was a joyless grind against arbitrarily set odds, a precursor to the Sandro Sammarco method, and the memory of it is never far from my mind when slogging for hard to find resources in Elite today.

Thank you for listening. Thank you for letting me share.

# ? Nov 27, 2017 19:26

Sabreseven: Feb 27, 2016

Hav posted:

Speaking of CiG;
https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/303912

Bunch of ways to spot a bad pitch;
* Over-estimating the market size
* Name-dropping
* No product or no customers

CIG totally nailing all those points.

If there's one thing CIG are really good at, it's hitting the scummy predatory company target time and time again and never falling short.

# ? Nov 27, 2017 19:28

XK: Jul 9, 2001; Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

G0RF posted:

I once programmed in BASIC what I would now charitably describe as a text-based battle arena game - basically RNG rolls determined success and progression to the next battle.

Five or six increasingly difficult monsters cribbed from Gygax�s Deities & Demigods, with the last being a 1 in something like 20 chance to defeat. I don�t remember the specific values but basically it was a difficulty curve where the player (me) had to beat a 75% chance, then 50%, then 25%, then 10%, then 5%. Any failure meant death and forced restart.

I don�t even remember how many hours I spent until I finally rolled all victories but I eventually did. It was a joyless grind against arbitrarily set odds, a precursor to the Sandro Sammarco method, and the memory of it is never far from my mind when slogging for hard to find resources in Elite today.

Thank you for listening. Thank you for letting me share.

Then you lost power on your TRS-80, and it was all gone.

:negative:

# ? Nov 27, 2017 19:31

Nalin: Sep 29, 2007; Hair Elf

Hav posted:

I've come into contact with ASP and ActiveX when there were a thing, but didn't enjoy the experience when i have other tools available. I've done the internet thing since before the summer that never ended, and it's time to move to closed platforms; mobile or desktop, and the last time I looked at this people were cautiously optimistic about Windows ME.

ASP.NET MVC is different from original ASP and ASP.NET Web Forms. I'm not that mean to suggest you learn about those other two.

# ? Nov 27, 2017 19:37

G0RF: Mar 19, 2015; Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

XK posted:

Then you lost power on your TRS-80, and it was all gone.

I didn�t own a TRS-80 though I did have access to one at the library and logged many hours playing Scott Adams �Pirate Adventure� off cassette.

�Say Yoho.�

# ? Nov 27, 2017 19:38

Nalin: Sep 29, 2007; Hair Elf

I have to look at code written by dozens of other software developers. You better loving write code that I can understand. We can maybe, possibly optimize it if the client complains. And if they agree to a change order. :v:

# ? Nov 27, 2017 19:41

Sabreseven: Feb 27, 2016

I'm not even going to try and engage in code talk as I'm rustier than a steampunk dildo with it.

# ? Nov 27, 2017 19:51

big nipples big life: May 12, 2014

I motion that programming chat be given a sixer for the next week or 2. It's good in small doses when it deals with the lovely non-game that this thread is about (remember that?) but the last 10 or so pages have been as tedious as this thread has ever been.

# ? Nov 27, 2017 19:53

big nipples big life: May 12, 2014

It's worse than reading Derek posts.

# ? Nov 27, 2017 19:54

Hav: Dec 11, 2009; Fun Shoe

big nipples big life posted:

It's worse than reading Derek posts.

Hmm.

http://www.eurogamer.net/amp/2017-11-27-destiny-2-fans-find-bungie-has-doubled-xp-needed-to-level-up
In skinner box news, Destiny 2 had it's XP climb doubled over the break.

# ? Nov 27, 2017 19:55

big nipples big life: May 12, 2014

Hav posted:

Hmm.

http://www.eurogamer.net/amp/2017-11-27-destiny-2-fans-find-bungie-has-doubled-xp-needed-to-level-up
In skinner box news, Destiny 2 had it's XP climb doubled over the break.

I mean it's not like it matters since they forgot to put in an endgame. Iron Banner was this past week and I couldn't even be bothered to log in.

# ? Nov 27, 2017 20:01

Aramoro: Jun 1, 2012

XK posted:

no

Unless you're coding for a bot that makes microsecond trades on a direct line to a stock exchange, nobody is going to care.

I worked on a trading system once as a contractor and it was one of the worst piles of poo poo I've ever seen. It was an RCP application and it wrote all the trades out to a text file on the server because the database cluster used to crash on a weekly basis. If losses due to delayed trades where under 50 million a week no one cared.

Also codeposts are better than Moma or Dereks insane ramblings.

# ? Nov 27, 2017 20:06

ManofManyAliases: Mar 21, 2016; ToastOfManySmarts

Can't post for 3 hours!

G0RF posted:

You are the wasabi of the thread and always welcomed in my book. But only $5 million? What�s that all about, Moma?

I was trying to keep it real.

# ? Nov 27, 2017 20:09

big nipples big life: May 12, 2014

Putting code posts in the star wars intro maker isn't nearly as fun.

# ? Nov 27, 2017 20:09

Daztek: Jun 2, 2006

MoMA, tell us about your adventures in Star Citizen Alpha 3.0 PTU

# ? Nov 27, 2017 20:16

Lladre: Jun 28, 2011; Soiled Meat

ManofManyAliases posted:

I was trying to keep it real.

Moldy bread isn't toast.
Whoever bought you that AV is milquetoast .

# ? Nov 27, 2017 20:17

big nipples big life: May 12, 2014

Daztek posted:

MoMA, tell us about your adventures in Star Citizen Alpha 3.0 PTU

Yes!

also

https://brorlandi.github.io/StarWarsIntroCreator/#!/AKzyuYEmxDUpSSqAC3ll

yeah, not as good

# ? Nov 27, 2017 20:18

D_Smart: May 11, 2010; by FactsAreUseless; College Slice

Zzr posted:

Go gently caress yourself and give me the gang tag, you only have this power sadly.

you gotta earn, man

----------------
This thread brought to you by a tremendous dickhead!

D_Smart fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Nov 27, 2017

# ? Nov 27, 2017 20:25

Spiderdrake: May 12, 2001

No Derek is going to hold his block list hostage. Block the blocking!

You guys have played right into his hands. Given him all the power. Become his sausage.

# ? Nov 27, 2017 20:25

AutismVaccine: Feb 26, 2017; SPECIAL NEEDS
SQUAD

D_Smart posted:

you gotta earn, man

Holy hell, Derek won the jackpot.

Can someone please apply the gang tag under my AV? Has Beet/Beer the power to do it or do i have to sacrifice a lamb at the Lowtax shrine in my hidden basement? (Which should be done weekly nonetheless)

e: Does it overwrite the Special Needs text then?

# ? Nov 27, 2017 20:29

Ayn Marx: Dec 21, 2012

FailureToReport posted:

I stopped taking screen caps of all the rage posts before they realized it and ran back to delete them because there were too many

I like you

# ? Nov 27, 2017 20:30

Hav: Dec 11, 2009; Fun Shoe

Spiderdrake posted:

No Derek is going to hold his block list hostage. Block the blocking!

You guys have played right into his hands. Given him all the power. Become his sausage.

We can't let him be a weiner.

# ? Nov 27, 2017 20:30

Thoatse: Feb 29, 2016; Lol said the scorpion, lmao

https://i.imgur.com/XPjX9cm.gifv

# ? Nov 27, 2017 20:33

SCtrumpHaters: Oct 28, 2017; by Nyc_Tattoo

Im going to bully all you nerds

# ? Nov 27, 2017 20:34

Beet Wagon: Oct 19, 2015

AutismVaccine posted:

Holy hell, Derek won the jackpot.

Can someone please apply the gang tag under my AV? Has Beet/Beer the power to do it or do i have to sacrifice a lamb at the Lowtax shrine in my hidden basement? (Which should be done weekly nonetheless)

e: Does it overwrite the Special Needs text then?

gangtags work like avs, you just add them above or under the text. A mod can do it if you earn it, or you can pay 5bux and do it yourself. When a final design is settled on I'll get it uploaded to the SA imagebank and then anybody can apply it themselves. I mean I guess technically you can link right to the imgur version if you really want it right now.

# ? Nov 27, 2017 20:36

G0RF: Mar 19, 2015; Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

SpaceCurtisLeMay posted:

Thing about Elite is that its fundamentals work reasonably well as on a technical level. It's not perfect nor bug free by any stretch, but it's functional. Where Frontier has fallen short is that things aren't as good as they could be and often times has felt tacked on. It's interesting to note that over the last year there has been a lot of patch notes along the lines of "Lots of stuff changed under the hood" which tells me they want to do more, but coded themselves into corner in many areas and they've been redoing a lot of the back end for next year's beyond expansion.

It maybe interesting.

This is as good occasion as any to dump in apocrypha from my notepad of unpublished effort posts from awhile back. Opinions on Elite in this thread are diverse, and while I don�t hate it like Toops does, there are times when it has frustrated me beyond most other titles I�ve committed blocks of time to. I admire it, respect it and sometimes even enjoy it. But I want to love it, for it has done so very much right, and it denies many of us that chance not for what it does wrong but for what it refuses to do.

This post is a little out of date, as Elite had added some refinements / QoL improvements / etc. but I think the spirit of it still holds true.

Gorf Apocrypha: Volume 3, Essay 7 �The Watchmaker� posted:

Frontier has simulated a scientifically-plausible, full-scale galaxy with hundreds of billions of planets in orbits around hundreds of billions of stars. It includes black holes, nebulae, and all the other macroscale bodies one might hope to find in a simulated Milky Way. The whole thing is a sublime piece of clockwork and represents a staggering triumph for the braniac mathematicians and astronomers in their employ.

For this reason above several others, Elite should be acknowledged as a Space Sim of enormous ambition. As frustrated as I sometimes am with the game design itself, I will never not be astounded by the galaxy itself. It is a majestic construct.

Elite is a game built from the inside out and from the bottom up. Methodically. The core mechanics were laid down against the backdrop of its stellar clockwatch to create the foundation for the game. Mining, Trading, Bounty Hunting, Exploration and the rest began as primitive yet interconnected systems allowing the player a wide, shallow array of gameplay experiences at launch. And then, with successive updates, those mechanics grew more complex and to some extent, engaging.

Mining once was little more than a laser on your ship that you pointed blindly at asteroids. Pieces flew out, and you navigated with your cargo scoop open to hopefully grab a few pieces of something worthwhile. Two years later, Mining now includes prospecting limpets to assay the composition of asteroids and collector limpets to retrieve the pieces en masse. What was once a one-note-labor-and-frustration intensive grind is now something verging on the edges of fun. And surely a year from now, the mechanic will deepen further, as Frontier builds outward for the core.

The game, like a fine pocket watch, is a work of peculiar craftsmanship. But in many ways its great strengths are its great weaknesses; for the balance spring that powers the game is the RNG, and most of its �surprises� are themselves as predictable as clockwork and are such in letter while the opposite in spirit.

There is a soaring ambition on display � of a sort � yet it often feels like the ambition of the Swiss Jeweler who aspires to add ever increasing complexity to his timepiece.

�Behold the glory of the Vacheron Constantin and its 57 complications - has a more glorious piece of mechanical time-telling been crafted?�

Yet Elite is a watch. The complexity of its engineering serves the precision of its predictability, and in this respect it stands in open defiance of one of the core essentials of satisfying gameplay, one of the pillars of Fun itself, Surprise.

Even the addition of Thargoids - shocking when first discovered by an Xbox player - feels like a cuckoo bird contraption set to spring when particular conditions are met. It's an incredible cinematic encounter, and in VR a thing of all consuming terror, yet it repeats as the RNG decrees it, all players experiencing its "unique" surprises in exactly the same fashion provided they're in the particular regions. It hints at grander ambitions for story, yet with few means to engage with them, it remains only that; a majestic hint.

So let us say then of Elite it is a fantastically ambitious simulator, with what might one day be an excellent game straining to escape its engineered predictability. It will not and can not do so until Frontier takes a good, hard look in the mirror and sees the stern, predictable watchmaker standing where a smiling, mischievous game maker should be.

(My apologies for those who find effort posts tedious. Revisiting my text-based, RNG-centric arena battle memory triggered me anew as to Elite frustrations. I blame all this programming talk for jostling an unpleasant memory...)

ManofManyAliases posted:

I was trying to keep it real.

If everyone who backed Star Citizen decided to keep it real, CIG would be bankrupt and Chris and Sandi racing to get to the chopper and make their long-planned escape to their private villa with the defensible perimeter in a non-extradition treaty country.

Don�t keep it real, MOMA - �YOU GOTTA BELIEVE, MOMA!�

# ? Nov 27, 2017 20:37

big nipples big life: May 12, 2014

I'm pretty sure it has to be uploaded, I don't think you can hotlink images in your title.

# ? Nov 27, 2017 20:38

thatguy: Feb 5, 2003

I want a 50x500 pixel avatar like grim had.

# ? Nov 27, 2017 20:43

D_Smart: May 11, 2010; by FactsAreUseless; College Slice

Sarsapariller posted:

I guess it would help if I read the whole thing:

So yeah. Still server authoritative for some things. But the fact that this is such a huge performance boost kind of indicates where the problems may be in their net code.

It's nothing to do with that. For those of us who have developed multiplayer games, it almost always starts out as a single player session with stub code for all the networking bits which you later fill in. And that off-line mode is valuable for testing because without the actual data set earlier on, you have no idea how you need to streamline your code down the road.

And that's typically the problem that Star Citizen has. They somehow figured that - untouched - the baseline CryEngine network layer was adequate. It wasn't - as anyone who has played a CryEngine multiplayer game will tell you. But they decided, wtf, we're just going to make an MMO anyway.

Having done that, knowing that they're never - ever - getting an MMO out of this poo poo-show, they decided to focus on other things, while making minor to subtle revisions to the network layer in order to be able to actually come up with a proper client-server (FYI CryEngine base networking is peer-to-peer, but you can hack in a client-server model if you wanted to). It's how the PU came to be, whereby they were touting "persistence" despite the fact that there was nothing actually persistent (db store and pulls are not persistence) about it.

So, right now in 3.0, hype aside - with zero optimizations to their networking - each client in a serssion sends in excess of 4K bytes (I poo poo you not, fire up Wireshark and see) per second to the server. The server response is over 160K bytes - to every loving client. This is only part of the reason why the server shits itself so frequently.

However, there is NO fixing their networking layer without ripping it all out. They know this - that's why they haven't touched it. And even though they have yet to switch to LumberYard's own implementation (LY deprecated the base CryEngine networking), even doing that won't help because that too wasn't designed for large scale networking.

The end result? As I've written over and over, they're never - ever - getting an MMO out of this. If they don't collapse in the short-term, and somehow limp (they won't - they're hosed, it's just not news yet) along putting bandaid on the PU until they poo poo out SQ42, the closest they're ever going to get to meaningful multiplayer, is precisely where they are right now, but with fewer clients.

----------------
This thread brought to you by a tremendous dickhead!

D_Smart fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Nov 27, 2017

# ? Nov 27, 2017 20:44

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# ? May 21, 2024 20:25

Beet Wagon: Oct 19, 2015

big nipples big life posted:

I'm pretty sure it has to be uploaded, I don't think you can hotlink images in your title.

Yeah I think you're right. I was thinking there were a couple times I had given myself avs from imgur, but turns out I forgot I had uploaded them. So you'll wait, you'll all wait!

# ? Nov 27, 2017 20:45

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