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I just finished Wonder Woman Vol 4. The rebirth series. What happened? I'm a little confused. What was the lie? Did all the Godly fighting never happened in the New 52? Was it all a memory implanted by Dr. Cyber? Was it a lie by her patrons? I really don't follow any of this.
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Nov 26, 2017 19:15
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Roth posted:However, Gotham Central is probably in the top 5 or 10 books DC has ever published. It is sooooooo good. So good! Edge & Christian posted:A close runner-up to N52 Superboy is N52 Kid Flash, aka Bar Torr, who initially appeared as a young kid answering to Bart who was from the future. 
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Nov 26, 2017 21:26
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) but eventually he discovered his long lost sister worked for the dictatorship and he cared more about his sister than freedom so he went turncoat and helped the dictatorship wipe out all of his rebel friends. Because of that (and because you know, he was the leader of a bloody rebellion) the dictatorship mindwiped him and exiled him to the 21st century after he helped take out the rebels. All of this happened somehow before he was out of his teens, and he wakes up amnesiac in an orphanage.
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Covok posted:I just finished Wonder Woman Vol 4. The rebirth series. What happened? I'm a little confused. What was the lie? Did all the Godly fighting never happened in the New 52? Was it all a memory implanted by Dr. Cyber? Was it a lie by her patrons? I really don't follow any of this. I'm sure that sounds really drastic and harsh to someone just jumping into this series -- "they seriously just retconned five years of this book?" -- but you have to understand that the New 52 did it first, and far more drastically. All of the stuff Azzarello and Finch wrote took Wonder Woman so far away from her core mythos that if you're trying to restore that core mythos -- which is the entire tacit purpose of Rebirth for all characters and not just WW -- you're gonna have to undo all the poo poo they did. Rucka's scorched-earth approach was a little exorbitant even by Rebirth standards, I agree...but the fact is that's pretty much what the situation merited. (I personally would have liked to see some elements of those years survive, like Zola...but honestly? Imo Rucka didn't even go far enough, and in retrospect that was probably because DC themselves floored the brakes before he could do so) BrianWilly fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Nov 26, 2017 |
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Nov 26, 2017 23:45
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BrianWilly posted:Functionally-speaking, all of the New 52 WW solo book was a lie. In the Rebirth continuity, Diana has never actually gone back to Themyscira so all the business with Zola, Zeke, Hera, Lennox, Hephaestus, Hermes, the Firstborn, and all the rest never happened; they were all fake memories that the real gods implanted in her so that Deimos and Phobos wouldn't find the real Themyscira and release the real Ares. I get it. I actually understand that. I was just confused where the fake memories came from. They never really explained it clearly enough and it doesn't help reading it in trades because they did a stupid alternating issue thing which sucks because the trades don't do that. One trade is always the even numbers and one trait is always the odd numbers so things are read out of order. But, yeah, I get it: New 52 Wonder Woman waa such a departure from the status quo that the only possible recourse was to say none of it happened and was all fake memories. Though, I'm reading it right now and it's not really that bad. It's American Gods Wonder Woman Edition, or Game of Thrones with Greek gods, well you get the point. My only issue if it is how it makes the Amazonian seem like absolute pieces of poo poo and makes Wonder Woman dumb for not noticing it. Would it be so hard to just say that the gods make it so they can't give birth to men? Also making her Zeus's daughter is a little weird, but it seems necessary for the story they want to tell.
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Nov 26, 2017 23:54
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Speaking of Wonder Woman retcons, so the Superman/WW book (which never really fit with the az run anyhow) also never happened now, right? Ditto any scene between them in Justice League, except that that book still needs to be in continuity in general... Rebirth is making everyone feel the pain of having been a Legion of Super Heroes fan, isn't it...
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Nov 27, 2017 00:16
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I'm still perplexed why there's an issue of Wonder Woman where Batman and Superman meet her for the first time when Superman should be from post-crisis and recognize her and Batman should know her from the new 52 Justice League.
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Nov 27, 2017 00:20
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Well, now he's a combination of pre and post Flashpoint Supes, so it's whatever they want. Superman Reborn was so unnecessary. Covok posted:I'm still perplexed why there's an issue of Wonder Woman where Batman and Superman meet her for the first time when Superman should be from post-crisis and recognize her and Batman should know her from the new 52 Justice League. Which issue is that? Post-Crisis Superman was living in hiding till N52 Superman died, so that wouldn't be him. e: And if it was post-Superman Reborn, Rucka just invented their first meeting there. Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 00:31 on Nov 27, 2017 |
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Nov 27, 2017 00:22
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Teenage Fansub posted:Well, now he's a combination of pre and post Flashpoint Supes, so it's whatever they want. Wonder Woman (2016-) Annunal #1 Also, I'm working my way through the New 52 Wonder Woman and I'm curious if Orion has always been a sexist douche. Then again, with that weird face thing, maybe that isn't Orion.
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Nov 27, 2017 00:40
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That's Orion. He's the son of Darkseid, so an inherent anger is in him, and he's displayed prejudice. He a shitbag dictator right now in Mister Miracle. I dunno if sexism was a thing before WW, though I haven't read a lot of non-Kirby New Gods stuff prior to the N52 other than Morrison and Cosmic Odyssey. Apart from the ending I mentioned, giving her some vague familial bonds to the New Gods was the other major thing that didn't really work or get picked up on in the way he might've hoped. edit: That stone guy did turn out to be Wonder Girl's dad in Greg Pak's tiny run on Teen Titans. For some primo N52 WW, check out her team-up arc in Batwoman. That was great. Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Nov 27, 2017 |
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Nov 27, 2017 00:48
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I'm no Orion aficionado but yeah, pretty sure Azzarello's the first one who ever had Orion so overtly demeaning women, using sexist slang, and outright physically harassing them like he did in this, a Wonder Woman series. Such a lovely idea. Thranguy posted:Speaking of Wonder Woman retcons, so the Superman/WW book (which never really fit with the az run anyhow) also never happened now, right? Ditto any scene between them in Justice League, except that that book still needs to be in continuity in general... But then Superman Reborn happened a couple months later, which combined the N52 and post-Crisis Clarks and Loises, so Clark was with Lois and even had Jon during these last ten years, so obvs Superman couldn't have been with Diana during that time. So the Superman/WW romance still wasn't a lie exactly...it's just something that happened, but then got changed into not happening in real-time.  As for the Justice League...it gets pretty complicated. In the aftermath of Superman Reborn, I believe Jurgens' Action Comics made it so that the Justice League we saw form in the New 52 -- the one with Cyborg -- was not the first incarnation of the Justice League, but sort of the band getting back together after some time apart. So, basically, the current Rebirth continuity is that -- bear with me here -- Superman joined the Justice League about fifteen years ago, comprised of a more traditional post-Crisis line-up. Then, ten years ago his son Jon was born, so he took a bit of a leave of absence from superheroics entirely. Then, five years ago, the New 52 version of the Justice League got together to repel the Darkseid invasion; this obviously wouldn't be the first time these characters have met, but otherwise we're intended to believe that events happened more or less the exact same way it did in that story. And this is the version of the Justice League that's still hopping on today. So yeah anyway Dr. Manhattan bumrushed a wall or something and here we are BrianWilly fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Nov 27, 2017 |
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Nov 27, 2017 01:04
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Edge & Christian posted:A close runner-up to N52 Superboy is N52 Kid Flash, aka Bar Torr, who initially appeared as a young kid answering to Bart who was from the future. You say Runner up but I think he wins because not only is he all this bad stuff like Superboy, but Superboy was still at least connected to the Superman family (awful as it often was in the New 52). They went out of their way a few times to make it crystal clear Fake Bart had nothing to do with The Flash Family in their perpetual hate for anything that came after 1959.
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Nov 27, 2017 01:08
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BrianWilly posted:I'm no Orion aficionado but yeah, pretty sure Azzarello's the first one who ever had Orion so overtly demeaning women, using sexist slang, and outright physically harassing them like he did in this, a Wonder Woman series. I made until like 5 words of your explanation before my brain just went too complicated. Why does this poo poo always gotta be so complicated? I get that dealing with 100 Years of continuity and coordinating multiple authors who are all working together over 100 years is going to lead to a lot of bullshit, but that is still a lot of bullshit to just expect people to be okay with. I'm sure there's ways of doing this without increasing the levels of bullshit that the audience just has to accept. Also, the new God's kind of seem cool. So, like, is it that there used to be a period where all the myths of Earth were true, but then that ended in the new gods are the continuation, with the Greek gods being hanger ons? Is there any like good stories with them and delve into this?
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Nov 27, 2017 01:59
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The only way to avoid it is to blow everything up or to never mess up so bad that you have to fix things.
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Nov 27, 2017 03:41
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Guys, Batman Inc was an incredible book. It should still be published by DC. I still didnt enjoy Morrison's Joker at the end of his Batman & Robin run. Although the banana was great. I do wish Dick was still batman though. It was a breath of fresh air. I can see both of these influences in Tynion's and King's takes on the character.
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Nov 27, 2017 04:54
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MonsterEnvy posted:On other bad things about nu52 Teen Titans. Judge Murder Solstice was also ruined by the nu52. One of the reasons is being a judge murderer. But the main reason was that she was a very well received new character and when they brought her to the nu52 they went a complete 180 on everything about her. Teen Titans has had so many inexplicable characters in it over the past couple of decades... 
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Nov 27, 2017 04:57
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Remember when the Face pitched the idea to Miss Martian that she could turn into a giant vagina so he could eat her out? From Teen Titans #69, naturally.
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Nov 27, 2017 05:03
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all the other Well until they were killed systematically.
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Nov 27, 2017 05:05
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Edge & Christian posted:Remember when the Face pitched the idea to Miss Martian that she could turn into a giant vagina so he could eat her out? Is that the skateboarding kid from the death of Superman story?
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Nov 27, 2017 05:06
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Giant face guy gets killed be Jericho two pages after that.
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Nov 27, 2017 05:07
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Edge & Christian posted:Remember when the Face pitched the idea to Miss Martian that she could turn into a giant vagina so he could eat her out? I want to believe that was deliberate but I know better than that  Jordan7hm posted:Is that the skateboarding kid from the death of Superman story? The one with the backwards baseball cap is Kid Devil, Blue Devil's sideckick. Only he didn't have the regular devil suit anymore but instead gambled his soul to Neron to be a for-real devil with horns and tight black leather pants. Then he lost the powers anyway oopsie! Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 05:17 on Nov 27, 2017 |
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Nov 27, 2017 05:09
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He also dies in this run 
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Nov 27, 2017 05:11
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His death was probably the best written thing about that run.
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Nov 27, 2017 05:16
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Nuns with Guns posted:The one with the backwards baseball cap is Kid Devil, Blue Devil's sideckick.
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Nov 27, 2017 05:42
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Edge & Christian posted:Remember when the Face pitched the idea to Miss Martian that she could turn into a giant vagina so he could eat her out? That is loving disgusting. A giant, human-sized, green vagina being eaten out by a man with a giant face on his chest is gross and weird and wrong and I question the author who sees those two characters and comes up with that.
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Nov 27, 2017 05:49
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Covok posted:That is loving disgusting. A giant, human-sized, green vagina being eaten out by a man with a giant face on his chest is gross and weird and wrong and I question the author who sees those two characters and comes up with that. Sean McKeever who's work includes... Teen Titans, Countdown, Terror Titans and some Birds of Prey
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Nov 27, 2017 05:52
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Mr Hootington posted:Guys, Batman Inc was an incredible book. It should still be published by DC. Grayson takes up a lot of the Inc concepts, if you haven't read it.
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Nov 27, 2017 05:57
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Onmi posted:Sean McKeever who's work includes... Teen Titans, Countdown, Terror Titans and some Birds of Prey He co-created Gravity and did that Mary Jane series right before his Teen Titans run, so it's not like he's incapable of writing decent all-ages superhero books. More like he saved up the worst ideas he couldn't use at Marvel and dumped them all over DC the first chance he got.
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Nov 27, 2017 06:53
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Edge & Christian posted:Remember when the Face pitched the idea to Miss Martian that she could turn into a giant vagina so he could eat her out? I'm quoting this so I can find it again the next time anyone mentions Claremont or any other X-Men writer being a gross pervert.
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Nov 27, 2017 08:05
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Nuns with Guns posted:Teen Titans has had so many inexplicable characters in it over the past couple of decades... Solstice was good however. (Until the Nu52 decided to lets take a bright very very well received character and make her dark and mean.)
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Nov 27, 2017 08:07
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RIP The Face: Character find of 2009 E: I should note that E&C is being unfairly heteronormative here. Maybe he is gay or bi and wants Miss Martian to turn into a giant penis for him to suck.
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Nov 27, 2017 14:19
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Weren't most Titans like the face merely created to be cannon fodder. Like outside of the main Titans if you were a Titan one of two things was going to happen to you: 1. You die to prove how evil the for is 2. You get your arm ripped off to prove how evil the foe is.
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Nov 27, 2017 17:13
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Madkal posted:Weren't most Titans like the face merely created to be cannon fodder. Like outside of the main Titans if you were a Titan one of two things was going to happen to you: 3. Are Danny Chase, a fate worse than death
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Nov 27, 2017 18:26
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Inkspot posted:He co-created Gravity and did that Mary Jane series right before his Teen Titans run, so it's not like he's incapable of writing decent all-ages superhero books. More like he saved up the worst ideas he couldn't use at Marvel and dumped them all over DC the first chance he got. Onmi posted:Sean McKeever who's work includes... Teen Titans, Countdown, Terror Titans and some Birds of Prey In all fairness to McKeever, that run was allegedly heavily hosed-with by DC editorial, to the point that that very issue (#69) was released without a credited scripter (just "Original Story by Sean McKeever"): 
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Nov 27, 2017 18:59
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FoneBone posted:In all fairness to McKeever, that run was allegedly heavily hosed-with by DC editorial, to the point that that very issue (#69) was released without a credited scripter (just "Original Story by Sean McKeever"): I'm assuming "original story" means they changed pretty much everything about the story except for one plot beat.
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Nov 27, 2017 19:01
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Madkal posted:Weren't most Titans like the face merely created to be cannon fodder. Like outside of the main Titans if you were a Titan one of two things was going to happen to you: Yes and a lot of then were interesting.
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Nov 27, 2017 19:05
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Nine page Mystik U preview: http://www.syfy.com/syfywire/exclusive-mystik-u-1-preview-and-writer-alisa-kwitney-interview https://twitter.com/Ssnyder1835/status/934981249390841856 The Wild Hunt might be the world's greatest event tie-in. 
Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Nov 28, 2017 |
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Nov 28, 2017 00:11
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Madkal posted:Weren't most Titans like the face merely created to be cannon fodder. Like outside of the main Titans if you were a Titan one of two things was going to happen to you: I don't think the Face or the other dudes Miss Martian rescued were even formally inducted into the Titans before being murdered. The curse is that strong. Now, if they were part of Young Justice they would've just fallen into a small hole and never returned. MonsterEnvy posted:Solstice was good however. (Until the Nu52 decided to lets take a bright very very well received character and make her dark and mean.) Solstice was great. Restart the Young Justice comic and put her in it.
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Nov 28, 2017 01:18
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Really Doomsday Clock should be about Danny Chase being the architect of all evil in the DC universe in a Scrappy Doo in the Scooby Doo movie sort of way. I mean, 
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Nov 28, 2017 01:36
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i just read brubaker's Authority: Revolution which I enjoyed. what are the authority runs that are viewed as essential? I've read ellis' and millar's and most of the post-worldstorm stuff. i hated millar's and ellis' was... okay, but i didn't think it was great or anything. v5 was alright but wildstorm got canned and that was that. i thought brubaker's compared favourably to ellis' - the authority are such jerks in Revolution that it's painfully clear the only reason they can be considered heroes is because their opponents are given attributes which make them cartoonishly evil. 'As if I give a what the American people think. A bigger collection of mouth-breathers would be hard to find in the entire Multiverse' - a thing Jack Hawksmoor, a nominal hero, says after forcefully taking over the United States. ellis' seemed to focus more on just doing big action stories with less of this, although it was there to some degree. millar went with these kinds of themes in the most adolescent way possible, while also making GBS threads on any significance the authority characters might have - oh the us government can just poo poo out heroes more powerful than them at a moment's notice! also, it seems like the authority really diverged from the rest of the wildstorm u and almost takes place in its own little world, aside from v5 which brought in the high and couldn't really ignore wolrdstorm. even planetary feels more integrated with the rest of wildstorm. i don't mind that - i cannot think many of the other characters in the wildstorm who would let the authority do what it does, and that conflict would get in the way of the authority stories. edit: extend that to 'what stormwatch is worth reading', too; i've never read any. Neurosis fucked around with this message at 06:41 on Nov 28, 2017 |
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Nov 28, 2017 05:14
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Chase ends up being a depowered Superboy Prime. Please make this happen DC
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Nov 28, 2017 05:15
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