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Toops
Nov 5, 2015

-find mood stabilizers
-also,

Latin Pheonix posted:

Cute cat, I'll take it! :v:

Just had a thought on Discord this morning. That giant footprint that appears when you shoot the railgun at the ground; the decal itself might be an error, but what I found odd was just how big it was. Then it struck me: Wasn't there a theory that in order to make planets on SC, everything on Cryengine was scaled-down from a normal map size? If so, maybe the footprint isn't big, they just forgot to downscale it?

Any thoughts?

This has been my working theory for a long time. Scaling down all game objects is a cheap way to make your levels "bigger," but it has disastrous effects, including breaking collisions (you can clip through things easily because your player character is approaching the collider's error margin), and breaking physics (mass gets screwy and everything tends to behave like balsa wood).

Toops fucked around with this message at 14:41 on Nov 28, 2017

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AP
Jul 12, 2004

One Ring to fool them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to milk them all
and pockets fully line them
Grimey Drawer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYDL0dECRO8&t=5870s

tooterfish
Jul 13, 2013

FailureToReport posted:

I kept trying to think of a term to use for these players because Carebear isn't really what I want to call them, but there are thousands and thousands of backers who imagine they are going to call up their entire purchased "fleet" and roll out into the universe and have these super loving complex gameplay experiences that are more in depth than anything even remotely feasible.
Fantasists is the word you're looking for.

Although I find "delusional loving morons" rolls off the tongue better.

Daztek
Jun 2, 2006



Playing on a Javelin, Idris, Polaris (any larger ship) with a group of people is Star Citizen's version of a raid.
You need amazing coordination to survive, top level gear and people in varying roles: captain, first mate, radar, engineering, FCS, gunners, fighter pilots etc..
Imagine the missions you would undertake in such a large vessel with a good group of players. Taking down Vaandul fleets, coordinating huge battles as a flagship, picking up milk on the way home....awesome.

Golli
Jan 5, 2013



FailureToReport posted:

I kept trying to think of a term to use for these players because Carebear isn't really what I want to call them, but there are thousands and thousands of backers who imagine they are going to call up their entire purchased "fleet" and roll out into the universe and have these super loving complex gameplay experiences that are more in depth than anything even remotely feasible.

What's the term for people who buy tons of GW figures, maybe paint them, will theorycraft endlessly, but never actually play more than a couple of hours for any number of reasons?

Use that term - seems like the same demographic. (cf: model trains)

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube


That's almost maybe what should happen when your ship has 1G of artificial gravity, and it's upside down on a surface with 1G of gravity. Well, except for the part where he then floats out over the surface well away from the ship. It's almost like these physics grids may have complex interactions with each other, and they need to be carefully thought out.

This reminds me, we've never seen anything but 0G and 1G. Shouldn't these various celestial bodies have differing gravitational strengths? It's almost like CIG can't do varying gravity.

Beet Wagon
Oct 19, 2015





FailureToReport posted:

This is a big part of how people get caught up in it honestly, I've seen so many people come across my channel with this grand fully worked out scenarios they 100% expect to be in game based off a tiny snippet that Chris or someone else at CIG says about a mechanic they would like to one day make.

I kept trying to think of a term to use for these players because Carebear isn't really what I want to call them, but there are thousands and thousands of backers who imagine they are going to call up their entire purchased "fleet" and roll out into the universe and have these super loving complex gameplay experiences that are more in depth than anything even remotely feasible.

Dreamers, man. They're dreamers. By never actually giving them anything but fancy "lore" posts and ship brochures, CIG has enabled them to make their perfect game in their own heads. I can distinctly remember spending time thinking about how running a Retaliator was gonna work, because at the time all I had to go on was this:


(:rip: you shovelnosed bastard)

The problem with putting Chris up on 10ftC every week and letting him say "yes" to every single suggestion ever made in the history of videogames is that when the final product comes out there's no possible way it can ever live up to the expectations (see: 3.0) these guys have spent five years creating in their own heads. Theorycrafting is all there is, so it's all you do (especially if you're trying to have some kind of youtube/twitch presence) until such time as you're proved wrong. There's going to be mountains of salt when they finally push out that final update and post a self-congratulatory "we made it to release!" video.

FailureToReport
Nov 25, 2017

Warlord in training

Golli posted:

What's the term for people who buy tons of GW figures, maybe paint them, will theorycraft endlessly, but never actually play more than a couple of hours for any number of reasons?

Use that term - seems like the same demographic. (cf: model trains)

That would absolutely be me and why I never bought an Army and kept hoping one day GW would come out with a decent 40k universe computer game. I die a little more inside each time some studio tries and flops.

Golli
Jan 5, 2013



Beet Wagon posted:

The problem with putting Chris up on 10ftC every week and letting him say "yes" to every single suggestion ever made in the history of videogames is that when the final product comes out there's no possible way it can ever live up to the expectations (see: 3.0) these guys have spent five years creating in their own heads. Theorycrafting is all there is, so it's all you do (especially if you're trying to have some kind of youtube/twitch presence) until such time as you're proved wrong. There's going to be mountains of salt when they finally push out that final update and post a self-congratulatory "we made it to release!" video.

Since they've revealed their versioning scheme more fully, we will know the time is near when they push patch 3.0mvo to the PTU.

FailureToReport
Nov 25, 2017

Warlord in training

Beet Wagon posted:

I can distinctly remember spending time thinking about how running a Retaliator was gonna work, because at the time all I had to go on was this:

Hahahaha, It's both hilarious and soul crushing to realize the Retaliator was the first real disappointment I had with Star Citizen. Jesus loving christ did they murder that concept. Or maybe they didn't.


As your post suggest, they are absolutely guilty of not coming out and clearing up mechanics, concepts, etc. I suggested a long time ago that this was a really shady practice because it allows players to keep fantasizing how things are going to work (I think the specific topic was about how many players think they are going to be able to use ALL the ships they have bought at once using AI crews to form "fleets")

So many people defended CIG/Chris with stuff like "No they just haven't ironed out all the details yet, it isn't malicious, just be patient, projects like this take time!"

Daztek
Jun 2, 2006



XK posted:

That's almost maybe what should happen when your ship has 1G of artificial gravity, and it's upside down on a surface with 1G of gravity. Well, except for the part where he then floats out over the surface well away from the ship. It's almost like these physics grids may have complex interactions with each other, and they need to be carefully thought out.

This reminds me, we've never seen anything but 0G and 1G. Shouldn't these various celestial bodies have differing gravitational strengths? It's almost like CIG can't do varying gravity.

Some of the moons have different gravity, I think

big nipples big life
May 12, 2014

Daztek posted:

Playing on a Javelin, Idris, Polaris (any larger ship) with a group of people is Star Citizen's version of a raid.
You need amazing coordination to survive, top level gear and people in varying roles: captain, first mate, radar, engineering, FCS, gunners, fighter pilots etc..
Imagine the missions you would undertake in such a large vessel with a good group of players. Taking down Vaandul fleets, coordinating huge battles as a flagship, picking up milk on the way home....awesome.

I'm really looking forward to how spectacularly the big ships are going to fail. They can't afford to refund them all so they will have to shoehorn them in somehow but there is no way Star Engine™ can handle them so it's going to be glorious.

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

Daztek posted:

Some of the moons have different gravity, I think

I'd be impressed if this were true, and was implemented more deeply than just vehicles and things falling at different rates. Realistically, it would involve different walk cycles.

FailureToReport
Nov 25, 2017

Warlord in training

XK posted:

I'd be impressed if this were true, and was implemented more deeply than just vehicles and things falling at different rates. Realistically, it would involve different walk cycles.

Soon TM, you just have to be patient.

Golli
Jan 5, 2013



XK posted:

That's almost maybe what should happen when your ship has 1G of artificial gravity, and it's upside down on a surface with 1G of gravity. Well, except for the part where he then floats out over the surface well away from the ship. It's almost like these physics grids may have complex interactions with each other, and they need to be carefully thought out.

This reminds me, we've never seen anything but 0G and 1G. Shouldn't these various celestial bodies have differing gravitational strengths? It's almost like CIG can't do varying gravity.

They would have different gravitational forces if the proportion of (mass/radius squared) were different for each planet/moon. Lucky for CIG, UEE scientists have determined that for each celestial body of interest, this ratio is exactly the same.

PederP
Nov 20, 2009

Golli posted:

What's the term for people who buy tons of GW figures, maybe paint them, will theorycraft endlessly, but never actually play more than a couple of hours for any number of reasons?

Use that term - seems like the same demographic. (cf: model trains)

I don't think it's the same phenomenon. There is a difference between the act of buying the artifacts of a hobby, could also be sports gear that isn't used much, yarn that's never knitted into anything and the hobby of dreaming up a virtual world. Most of these people are not dreaming of being world-class athletes, knitting haute-coutore, etc.

It's more on par with someone purchasing a (limited run) parcel of land on not-yet-built-but-totally-feasible artificial island, and then dreaming up how he's going to be rich, have a beautiful doting wife, and have so much fun with the other land owners. Because this island will be wanted by everyone, and the land is limited. So, haha on you haters.

It's extreme escapism. This happens a lot in online communities, but by making access gated by purchases, a sense of exclusivity and community is fostered. This creates an echo chamber and the beginning of sunk cost, feeding the escapism and desire to buy even deeper into the dream. It's similar to a cult, but entirely the same.

There are a lot of perfectly normal backers. People who put up some money, and check back once in a while on progress. They either have some sunk cost delusion or don't mind the risk of losing the money, so they aren't seeking a refund, but aren't particular tied to the community.

The sad cases are the ones who start talking about not wanting to spend money on lesser games, that this will be the game to end the need for any other entertainment, etc. To me that's a symptom of being so heavily psychologically invested in the escapism, that they're easy to milk for more money. The subscription-for-PTU can be seen as a threat to the "inner-circle" dreams of these backers. So they have to either reevaluating their dreams or cough up the money. As it's a relatively minor fee (but summing up to a very nice chunk of money over time), most will probably give in.

PederP fucked around with this message at 15:27 on Nov 28, 2017

Dusty Lens
Jul 1, 2015

All Glory unto the Stimpire. Give up your arms and legs and embrace the beautiful agony of electricity that doubles in pain every second.

Daztek posted:

Playing on a Javelin, Idris, Polaris (any larger ship) with a group of people is Star Citizen's version of a raid.
You need amazing coordination to survive, top level gear and people in varying roles: captain, first mate, radar, engineering, FCS, gunners, fighter pilots etc..
Imagine the missions you would undertake in such a large vessel with a good group of players. Taking down Vaandul fleets, coordinating huge battles as a flagship, picking up milk on the way home....awesome.

I'm the guy spending three hours sitting in a gun turret on someone elses ship trying to look at anything through the horribly designed cockpit struts.

Because that's my job in this organization. To fluff someone elses captain fantasy. In another 1000 hours I'll get my own ship.

Golli
Jan 5, 2013



PederP posted:

I don't think it's the same phenomenon. There is a difference between the act of buying the artifacts of a hobby, could also be sports gear that isn't used much, yarn that's never knitted into anything and the dreaming up a virtual world. Most of these people are dreaming of being world-class athletes, knitting haute-coutore, etc.

It's more on par with someone purchasing a (limited run) parcel of land on not-yet-built-but-totally-feasible artificial island, and then dreaming up how he's going to be rich, have a beautiful doting wife, and have so much fun with the other land owners. Because this island will be wanted by everyone, and the land is limited. So, haha on you haters.

It's extreme escapism. This happens a lot in online communities, but by making access gated by purchases, a sense of exclusivity and community is fostered. This creates an echo chamber and the beginning of sunk cost, feeding the escapism and desire to buy even deeper into the dream. It's similar to a cult, but entirely the same.

There are a lot of perfectly normal backers. People who put up some money, and check back once in a while on progress. They either have some sunk cost delusion or don't mind the risk of losing the money, so they aren't seeking a refund, but aren't particular tied to the community.

The sad cases are the ones who start talking about not wanting to spend money on lesser games, that this will be the game to end the need for any other entertainment, etc. To me that's a symptom of being so heavily psychologically invested in the escapism, that they're easy to milk for more money. The subscription-for-PTU can be seen as a threat to the "inner-circle" dreams of these backers. So they have to either reevaluating their dreams or cough up the money. As it's a relatively minor fee (but summing up to a very nice chunk of money over time), most will probably give in.

I think it's the same phenomenon, just without the storage locker rental fees.

Beet Wagon
Oct 19, 2015





FailureToReport posted:

Hahahaha, It's both hilarious and soul crushing to realize the Retaliator was the first real disappointment I had with Star Citizen. Jesus loving christ did they murder that concept. Or maybe they didn't.


As your post suggest, they are absolutely guilty of not coming out and clearing up mechanics, concepts, etc. I suggested a long time ago that this was a really shady practice because it allows players to keep fantasizing how things are going to work (I think the specific topic was about how many players think they are going to be able to use ALL the ships they have bought at once using AI crews to form "fleets")

So many people defended CIG/Chris with stuff like "No they just haven't ironed out all the details yet, it isn't malicious, just be patient, projects like this take time!"

Man, if the Retaliator was your first real disappointment you got lucky. I swapped out ships a lot (because of near constant disappointment and DREAMS), but it went something in the order of this:

  • 325A - hosed at hangar release, and still hosed to this day. I believe you still clip through the roof if you walk around in it too quickly
  • Avenger - just lmao at that half-height crawlspace thing that I always fell through the floor of
  • Freelancer - Got it right at the height of "Strut-Gate" and spent a month arguing with psychopaths on the internet about whether or not it made sense to not be able to see out the window
  • Retaliator - Perhaps the biggest disappointment next to the Cutlass in terms of "concept vs reality," and essentially completely unusable to this day because of the manned turret requirement and the pilot having no weapons other than torpedoes.
  • Starfarer - Which actually came out pretty nicely, all things considered. Too bad that literally 30% of the interior is huge loving stairwells in this, my transport spacecraft.

My poor wife had it even worse with an unusable Cutlass and a Banu Merchantman that's still MIA over a year after she got her refund lol. I guess my point here is that for a company that does nothing but design fantasy starships, CIG actually kind of sucks at designing fantasy starships.

VictorianQueerLit
Aug 25, 2017

FailureToReport posted:

This is a big part of how people get caught up in it honestly, I've seen so many people come across my channel with this grand fully worked out scenarios they 100% expect to be in game based off a tiny snippet that Chris or someone else at CIG says about a mechanic they would like to one day make.

I kept trying to think of a term to use for these players because Carebear isn't really what I want to call them, but there are thousands and thousands of backers who imagine they are going to call up their entire purchased "fleet" and roll out into the universe and have these super loving complex gameplay experiences that are more in depth than anything even remotely feasible.

We've called them a bunch of different things over the years. "Cultists" is usually one of the harshest but most accurate. They argue a faith based viewpoint that they need to believe and do it fanatically. Since it's 100% faith they can never be wrong no matter what happens. Most backers are too dumb to even understand the comparison though and think we mean Chris Roberts is their god so Derek Smart must be our god or whatever. "The Verse" is their god. Star Citizen is just their bible being written as we speak. Chris Roberts is a jesus christ figure turning bugs into features and healing the blind.

This guy is a good example of what i mean


The gently caress? It's a crysis mod with a moon now.

You have to cut out the dream and the faith from what this guy is saying. When you do you can not argue that Elite Dangerous is less "absorbing" than Star Citizen. There is no ground to even try and make that argument. You totally can make that argument if you are disingenuous enough or need to preach some hymns about how Ben Lesnick parted the catering tables but objectively Elite Dangerous is more "absorbing."

EightAce posted:

the wilmslow guys are working there asses off round the clock. Weekends and evenings. They are trying to get a sq42 smoke and mirrors up and running . Unfortunately Wig commander has flown in to assume personal command of this en-devour. So in other words its all hosed currently

This is legit impressive from a management viewpoint. The guy completely fails on all levels to make a product. He blows through every deadline, release date and budget put before him with something that by any account is a complete loving mess.

But when placed in the current situation by his own incompetence he apparently unlocks the hidden ability to find the most efficient way to keep the lights on.

It's like some guy was building a house with hundreds of workers. He has gone ten times over budget and is years late. He has paintings of this modern wonder of the world architecture concept drawings and is currently nailing lumber to a giant pile of furniture in a hole. Every time his company gets too close to failure he discovers he is incredibly good at telling lies to the bank and the neighborhood to get extensions and new funding. He has a sixth sense to let him know which elderly people in the community have the most money to scam and now Sally has paid $50,000 for the house because she loves the idea the man has sold her of what the neighborhood will be like. Most of that $50,000 goes into buying a second hole for all the extra furniture.

Sure he might be completely wasting his time with the exact wrong approach to things that would never work for something that is impossible for him to make but he has put together a brilliant presentation for the upcoming county fair that will raise all the money he needs to completely fill that second hole with furniture.

Hav
Dec 11, 2009

Fun Shoe

Shimrra Jamaane posted:

I know jack poo poo about computer programming but their complete disregard of all standard industry conventions for their build designations pisses me off. 1.0 is always supposed to be the fully developed launched product right? They're at like 0.03 right now.

Hi, I'm a programmer. More accurately, I'm a slave to actual facts, my documentation gets preened often because other people have to read it, and I'm a tireless champion for doing things right, rather than doing things right now and I know a bunch of syntax.

_EVERYTHING_ about CiG's presentation to the world about how any of this works digs at my very core, which is a buttery mix of old Steve Martin jokes and the surrealist manifesto. Their version numbering, no doubt aligned by the best drat marketing team outside of jail, is one small and very obvious point in the otherwise expansive tapestry of poo poo.

Tokamak posted:

It's been a thing in versioning for a while to release a new version every month. Chrome is currently version 62.

*cough* You are aware that we were talking about a company that has moved from 2.0 -> 2.6.3 -> 3.0 with no seeming attachment to actual temporal divisions, then compare it to a wildly popular released browser?

That skeleton might be causing you some issues.

Dusty Lens
Jul 1, 2015

All Glory unto the Stimpire. Give up your arms and legs and embrace the beautiful agony of electricity that doubles in pain every second.

Beet Wagon posted:

Dreamers, man. They're dreamers. By never actually giving them anything but fancy "lore" posts and ship brochures, CIG has enabled them to make their perfect game in their own heads.

I don't have the time to go full :effort:, however I did want to really quickly jump on the dream. There are a lot of aspects to Chris' ramblings that I always thought would lose dreamers pretty quick. The best specific is the whole "arma" combat comparison he loves making. I always thought that the prospect of handing their adventure over into the hands of a 2 second ttk (in a game with hours of travel and busywork) that will almost certainly favor the kind of player that most SC fans are desperately attempting to escape would cause something of a riot and demand for a softer combat form.

But things that don't fit in with their specific dreams aren't just disregarded, they're set aside to provide a kind of reinforcing structure. There's a tremendous emphasis on the idea of the technical. The combat wont be accessible to people who lack a technical knowledge, the pvp wont be something you can just walk into without the technical ability to fly a ship. There's this sort of membrane comprised of a nebulous ability to grasp this manufactured quality of player that segregates those who can (the people who will win because of their experience and the money they've spent) and the "general population" who will flail hopelessly attempting to navigate the sophisticated and sensitive systems of their own best Star Citizen. You'll recall the old forum threads where persons would enthusiastically discuss the weeks required to learn how to fly a ship properly. This years before Arena Commander was even available to the general public.

Players who pass through that membrane to join them in their own competency will be changed by the experience, becoming like them. All others will be on the wrong end of the "how do you like me now" moment of flying through space with their crew of space slaves manning all turrets.

e; oh shoot I typed too much

Dusty Lens
Jul 1, 2015

All Glory unto the Stimpire. Give up your arms and legs and embrace the beautiful agony of electricity that doubles in pain every second.


Watch those triggers man.

Daztek
Jun 2, 2006



AP
Jul 12, 2004

One Ring to fool them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to milk them all
and pockets fully line them
Grimey Drawer

PederP posted:

The sad cases are the ones who start talking about not wanting to spend money on lesser games, that this will be the game to end the need for any other entertainment, etc. To me that's a symptom of being so heavily psychologically invested in the escapism, that they're easy to milk for more money. The subscription-for-PTU can be seen as a threat to the "inner-circle" dreams of these backers. So they have to either reevaluating their dreams or cough up the money. As it's a relatively minor fee (but summing up to a very nice chunk of money over time), most will probably give in.

I can't believe I watched over 2 hours of those idiots making space dreams, I was doing other things but even so, it's just so weird that they can't see they've been scammed and will be lucky to get a box of poo poo when it's all over.

Quavers
Feb 26, 2016

You clearly don't understand game development

Daztek posted:

Some of the moons have different gravity, I think

According to the stats on that weather app thing all three moons have the same gravity of 0.35G

Daztek
Jun 2, 2006



Quavers posted:

According to the stats on that weather app thing all three moons have the same gravity of 0.35G

Probably, I've only seen them jump higher and fall slower, so that's probably the extent of it :v:

FailureToReport
Nov 25, 2017

Warlord in training

Beet Wagon posted:


[*] Starfarer - Which actually came out pretty nicely, all things considered. Too bad that literally 30% of the interior is huge loving stairwells in this, my transport spacecraft.
[/list]

My poor wife had it even worse with an unusable Cutlass and a Banu Merchantman that's still MIA over a year after she got her refund lol. I guess my point here is that for a company that does nothing but design fantasy starships, CIG actually kind of sucks at designing fantasy starships.


Man......the Starfarer was such a headache. If there's one thing you want out of a ship comparable to a flying bomb which has to do "dangerous refueling operations", it's an interior designed as a FPS level where getting from one section of the ship to another rapidly is an absolute nightmare.

I would have to put a lot of effort into coming up with a single ship (outside of 1 person fighters) that CIG didn't do an absolute nightmare of wasting interior space. One of the big things Yakaru tried to argue against Chris about was him wanting to have everything modeled on the interiors, like the piping, electrical, structure etc, and I really wish he had the sense to listen to people who are telling him his idea is bad, because they waste sooooo much loving interior of every ship with that crap.

Daztek
Jun 2, 2006



Love to spite pledge

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen_refunds/comments/7g3wbv/praise_be_finally_free/dqger0m/?context=3

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube


Please tell me this isn't real and they aren't tracking the partial pressure of argon.

Daztek
Jun 2, 2006



XK posted:

Please tell me this isn't real and they aren't tracking the partial pressure of argon.

What does your heart tell you.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/50259/thread/debugging-how-you-doing-this/695768

Nyast
Nov 14, 2017

BLAZING AT THE
SPEED OF LIGHT

Beet Wagon posted:

The problem with putting Chris up on 10ftC every week and letting him say "yes" to every single suggestion ever made in the history of videogames is that when the final product comes out there's no possible way it can ever live up to the expectations (see: 3.0) these guys have spent five years creating in their own heads. Theorycrafting is all there is, so it's all you do (especially if you're trying to have some kind of youtube/twitch presence) until such time as you're proved wrong. There's going to be mountains of salt when they finally push out that final update and post a self-congratulatory "we made it to release!" video.

There's never going to be a "release". Everything you just explained, CIG fully realizes. The only way to keep the money flowing is to keep the dream alive. It's not in their interest to call something a release and awaken people from their dreams.

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

FailureToReport posted:

One of the big things Yakaru tried to argue against Chris about was him wanting to have everything modeled on the interiors, like the piping, electrical, structure etc, and I really wish he had the sense to listen to people who are telling him his idea is bad, because they waste sooooo much loving interior of every ship with that crap.

One of the best parts of watching a ship break apart is seeing all the pipes, wires, and internal garbage. All completely useless, and demanded by a delusional man.

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube


I can't even.

:negative:

Codezombie
Sep 2, 2016

FailureToReport posted:

Hahahaha, It's both hilarious and soul crushing to realize the Retaliator was the first real disappointment I had with Star Citizen. Jesus loving christ did they murder that concept. Or maybe they didn't.


As your post suggest, they are absolutely guilty of not coming out and clearing up mechanics, concepts, etc. I suggested a long time ago that this was a really shady practice because it allows players to keep fantasizing how things are going to work (I think the specific topic was about how many players think they are going to be able to use ALL the ships they have bought at once using AI crews to form "fleets")

So many people defended CIG/Chris with stuff like "No they just haven't ironed out all the details yet, it isn't malicious, just be patient, projects like this take time!"

I began to lose faith in SC the first time I loaded the hanger module (back when that was all there was) and it was a janky mess for a walk around a ship based on Cry Engine. That set off alarm bells.

I lost it entirely when I first went into Arena Commander, where the UI was an unusable mess, and Arena Commander itself was just awful.

I really have not had the heart to load it up much since then, I think I tried about a year ago, but the installer crashed, so I went and played something playable instead.

FailureToReport
Nov 25, 2017

Warlord in training

Dusty Lens posted:

I don't have the time to go full :effort:, however I did want to really quickly jump on the dream. There are a lot of aspects to Chris' ramblings that I always thought would lose dreamers pretty quick. The best specific is the whole "arma" combat comparison he loves making. I always thought that the prospect of handing their adventure over into the hands of a 2 second ttk (in a game with hours of travel and busywork) that will almost certainly favor the kind of player that most SC fans are desperately attempting to escape would cause something of a riot and demand for a softer combat form.

But things that don't fit in with their specific dreams aren't just disregarded, they're set aside to provide a kind of reinforcing structure. There's a tremendous emphasis on the idea of the technical. The combat wont be accessible to people who lack a technical knowledge, the pvp wont be something you can just walk into without the technical ability to fly a ship. There's this sort of membrane comprised of a nebulous ability to grasp this manufactured quality of player that segregates those who can (the people who will win because of their experience and the money they've spent) and the "general population" who will flail hopelessly attempting to navigate the sophisticated and sensitive systems of their own best Star Citizen. You'll recall the old forum threads where persons would enthusiastically discuss the weeks required to learn how to fly a ship properly. This years before Arena Commander was even available to the general public.

Players who pass through that membrane to join them in their own competency will be changed by the experience, becoming like them. All others will be on the wrong end of the "how do you like me now" moment of flying through space with their crew of space slaves manning all turrets.

e; oh shoot I typed too much


I'm hoping by the time I finish responding this isn't stupid long and some other people have posted so I'm not flooding the thread, but I really really wanted to respond to this because you nail one of the things I tried sooooooo hard to get across to backers when I was running my channel as an SC backer.


Every time CIG opened up a little and would lay out one of these new "hyper-realism" mechanics they wanted to put in game, I would talk about it in the channel and always try to frame it realistically, not in a dreamy make believe best case scenario.

The Time To Kill is a perfect example, I kept trying to stress to backers "Be careful what you wish for, because it's entirely plausible for you to spend an hour or more on a mission in your ship only to have someone decide they don't like your name, they are having a bad day, or whatever, so they kill you and it's loving over before you even have a chance to react. Now you've not only lost the time it took for you to do the mission up until encountering that player, but you've also lost the time it takes you to get back into a ship if you don't have multiple ships available or the credits to "rush" a replacement, as well as the time it takes you to get another mission, load up, and head back out."

These kind of arguments are almost always brushed aside with "Oh I'd kill them first cause I'm loving Captain Reynolds bitch!" or some version of "That's why you don't fly alone!" or maybe if they are humble something like "Well that's why there are bounty hunters and other pilots out there who will reign those kind of griefers in"...


No, there aren't. If most of the best pilots aren't griefers themselves, do you really think the others give a poo poo about you?


This game is very quickly developing into a griefer's wet loving dream. The amount of rage and suffering someone can inflict with minimal effort is near unprecedented. That never matters though because every backer I've ever argued with about this kind of stuff seems to live in a bubble of "it won't happen to me".

Bofast
Feb 21, 2011

Grimey Drawer

FailureToReport posted:

Is this where I go to buy all the space ships?

Welcome, neighbour! I feel like I've seen some of your footage. Are you the guy who compared an elevator sound to the charge shot sound from a Megaman game?
Either way, what are your feelings on pineapple pizza?

Lack of Gravitas
Oct 11, 2012

Grimey Drawer
Modelling the atmosphere to only six significant figures is disappointing, I know, but concessions need to be made somewhere

Codezombie
Sep 2, 2016


Lol at the atmosphere tracking, though to be fair to the quality of the interface I have some pretty nasty looking debug tools too, like the one that draws little red spheres on trees(etc) that have been selected to reflect a small amount of the car's exhaust noise to give the improved impression of speed when passing trees and other such smaller objects.

Nasty looking, programmer art, debug tools are de-rigueur for writing games. ;)

Codezombie fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Nov 28, 2017

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Virtual Captain
Feb 20, 2017

Archive Priest of the Stimperial Order

Star Citizen Good, in all things forevermore. Amen.
:pray:

Lack of Gravitas posted:

Modelling the atmosphere to only six significant figures is disappointing, I know, but concessions need to be made somewhere

You don't know much about fidelity development.






I hope I'm not typing too many words but in the last 500 years, the Fourth Stimpire has dominated four systems, which it has united into one starzone, Stimsis. The Fourth Stimpire has origins from the Ten Empire War in which 10 of the United Stimpires revolted against each rules. All empires except for the fourth swore freedom upon their citizens. There is no free speech in the Fourth Stimpire, and all self-controlled transportation has been made illegal without undergoing painful medical verification methods, in which arteries are severed without pain resistant, operated entirely by machines. The way they work claim to be the most hygenic and healthy way possible, but these machines often rub against pain points, causing great deals of pain to patients. The heart is then extracted from the body and placed into a glass grinding machine. Various energy centers are also dissected and replaced with dangerous transplants. After the painful, 52 hour surgical procedure, patients will then have to use a fused guidance tool, which pumps painful resistors into the body every 2 hours. The pain they have caused is so bad, the victim would freeze in a tense position. They would then collapse afterwards.

Sexual stimulation in any way within the grounds of the Fourth Stimpire is strictly prohibited, and anyone detected even touching their sexual organs will be subjected to a penectomy or if the offender was a female, they would then have a razor inserted into their ovaries. They would pump a blue solution into the womb until the stitchings burst. Offenders would also be forced to show their operated areas in public, and they would always harass and punch them to a pulp, against their will.

Otherwise, offenders would be tazed with the worst type of electricity in the systematic district, causing so much pain, the victim would scream and flail in madness. The pain would also triple every second, but no death would be incurred. This is also used in combat against enemy units, which is why all UEE forces must wear the upgraded suit to block this effect.

However, enertainment is also questionable in UEE grounds. Sporting events end with the losing team being rounded into a grinder and shredded on live television, boxing matches end with the loser having their hands removed without anasthesia, flight races would end with the losers having their arms and legs removed, then being injected with insanity, for entertainment. People are also forced into these events, by undergoing a painful 127 hour procedure which involves tweaking the muscles so they will not listen to brain commands, and then having a painful drug injected which also causes madness if the player is not sporting. This is all for entertainment, and anyone not watching any of it during sporting times and cheering for the winning team, they will be imprisoned into galactic camps.

Snuff films are also broadcast, and actors are actually murdered just for entertainment. Stealth droids also guide these forced actors into behaving exactly as the director dreams, otherwise they will be punished by being placed into a macerator and having their execution written into the film. Any film that does not feature someone being murdered will be burned and the entire crew behind it will be executed in the most grotesque way possible - vivisection.

All executions are broadcast, and anyone who misses even a millisecond, even by blinking, will be executed. All citizens must boo to the person being executed, and the family is gathered to be injected with eternators, which cause pain forever, making them immoral but feeling the pain tenfold every millisecond. They cannot pass out, but they will feel like it forever.

Conquests by this Stimpire end in the planet being razed, and all the citizens being executed in the same way as their citizens are. The planet is then destroyed and all remnants of it are removed, and any memories of it will be erased instantly from civil minds. People who are also killed are also erased from memories, and all memories of them, including toys and pictures, are destroyed.

Prisoners undergo 40,000 years of relentless and endless labor, and anyone not complying is sentenced to the eternator injection. All prisoners injected with eternators are placed into capsules and launched into far space, then the room is closed tight to ensure maximum insanity. Some prisoners are also subjected to the removal of blood, the lungs, the liver, the genitals, the skeleton, the muscles, the eyes, and even the injection of pressure. Prisoners sentenced to pressure chambers are locked in until they are inflated to a high level. The decompression is then stopped to make sure they are inflated and uncomfortable.

Children born on the 14th of July are subjected to the removal of their skeleton and an implant of a silver liquid to replace it. The nervous sysem is also injected in various parts to ensure it is five times more sensitive than the average.

Restaurants also are ordered to serve civil meat, and anyone attending must give themself up to be cooked into a grotesque meal. They are cooked alive, undergoing extreme pain, and are then subjected to industrial grinders and blenders. The Stimpire orders at least 1 million citizens to be dispatched every day, as they are afraid the population may overthrow them. But only one planet is cared for, and the rest are banned from eating, drinking, talking, using technology, touching anyone, wearing unauthorized clothes, touching buildings, or walking a centimeter out of designated routes. Civil enforcers are on every planet, and they are engineered so that they are 40 times larger than the 300 quadrillion population. At least 7 billion die every 12 hours under this rule.

Thoughts are also surveyed, and anyone who does not think anything to loving the Stimpire with more than their capabilities will be sentenced to a prison. Prisoners who are punished for this violation will meet their greatest fear, only to have it amplified so they will turn insane as they imagine it exactly as they fear it. They then undergo a painful extraction of all fluids, to be replaced by a toxin which causes permanent irritation. The unknown substance keeps the subject aging normally, except they will never die. Prisoners punished in this way are unable to be reverted, despite many efforts, and they will never be able to be disposed.

The sickening truths have been revealed only today, and invigilation teams are still investigating the truths without setting foot in the galactic space of this sickening empire.

Virtual Captain fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Nov 28, 2017

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