quote:

“We so obviously despise them, we so obviously condescend to them,” the conservative social scientist Charles Murray, who co-wrote The Bell Curve, recently told The New Yorker, speaking of the white working class. “The only slur you can use at a dinner party and get away with is to call somebody a redneck—that won’t give you any problems in Manhattan.”

“The utter contempt with which privileged Eastern liberals such as myself discuss red-state, gun-country, working-class America as ridiculous and morons and rubes,” charged the celebrity chef Anthony Bourdain, “is largely responsible for the upswell of rage and contempt and desire to pull down the temple that we’re seeing now.”

That black people, who have lived for centuries under such derision and condescension, have not yet been driven into the arms of Trump does not trouble these theoreticians. After all, in this analysis, Trump’s racism and the racism of his supporters are incidental to his rise. Indeed, the alleged glee with which liberals call out Trump’s bigotry is assigned even more power than the bigotry itself. Ostensibly assaulted by campus protests, battered by arguments about intersectionality, and oppressed by new bathroom rights, a blameless white working class did the only thing any reasonable polity might: elect an orcish reality-television star who insists on taking his intelligence briefings in picture-book form.

stone cold posted:

minorities are to blame for nazis being monsters by calling them monsters

Trabisnikof posted:

Of course not. Just that dehumanizing Nazis still ends up hurting minorities because that's how hosed our society is.

Trabisnikof posted:

Of course not. Just that dehumanizing Nazis still ends up hurting minorities because that's how hosed our society is.

Trabisnikof posted:

Ich bin ein Fickjunge, der Nazi-Abschaum und meine eigenen Fürze humanisiert.

Cerebral Bore posted:

Jesus gently caress you're a dumbshit. Don't you even think two seconds about what you're saying before you post?

NewForumSoftware posted:

yeah just like world war 2 we should have humanized the nazis and let them murder millions of jews beacuse they're just people caught in a bad place

stone cold posted:

again apropos of nothing

Koalas March posted:

I also think a lot of the strife is caused by each individuals definition of "monster"

Trabisnikof posted:

Because it leads to a cycle of dehumanization that only makes things worse for those being oppressed currently and dehumanization isn't healthy for humans who engage in it.

Trabisnikof posted:

Of course not. Just that dehumanizing Nazis still ends up hurting minorities because that's how hosed our society is.

stone cold posted:

Trabisnikof posted:

Again, you can understand your enemy is human and still ruthlessly kill them.

cis autodrag posted:

Apropos of apropos of nothing I got seriously bored of Bourdain this year and quit watching his show. Seems like I was on the right track.

Trabisnikof posted:

Wer mit Ungeheuern kämpft, mag zusehn, dass er nicht dabei zum Ungeheuer wird. Und wenn du lange in einen Abgrund blickst, blickt der Abgrund auch in dich hinein.

NewForumSoftware posted:

yeah just like world war 2 we should have humanized the nazis and let them murder millions of jews beacuse they're just people caught in a bad place

Trabisnikof posted:

Of course not. Just that dehumanizing Nazis still ends up hurting minorities because that's how hosed our society is.

Trabisnikof posted:

And yet you actually don't have anything valuable to say yourself.

Talmonis posted:

Nobody is even close to saying that sort of tripe, and you're gross for implying it.

Koalas March posted:

Fick die Polizei! Komme direkt aus der U-Bahn.

NewForumSoftware posted:

I'd rather be "gross" than enable fascists like yourself and the rest of the liberal nonviolence squad

Talmonis posted:

That's funny, I'm pretty sure I've openly advocated for killing Nazis. If you're going to just tilt at windmills all afternoon, at least make sure they're the right ones.

Talmonis posted:

I'd argue that outliers such as Buffett, Soros and Gates are doing a half-decent job of it.

Talmonis posted:

That's funny, I'm pretty sure I've openly advocated for killing Nazis. If you're going to just tilt at windmills all afternoon, at least make sure they're the right ones.

Koalas March posted:

what is the point, goal or endgame in telling someone that their view of their oppressor is wrong?

what is the point, goal, or endgame of telling me that the people who want me dead are *~*just human beings*~*

NewForumSoftware posted:

why the gently caress would you care about this? who cares about this point? what are you even saying?

Democrazy posted:

USPOL is clear. If you mess with their vidyagames, they’ll shoot you dead.

Talmonis posted:

That's funny, I'm pretty sure I've openly advocated for killing Nazis. If you're going to just tilt at windmills all afternoon, at least make sure they're the right ones.

Koalas March posted:

riddle me this, kiddo

HootTheOwl posted:

I...what?

Talmonis posted:

Again, just in my opinion.

GlyphGryph posted:

Koalas March posted:

Nazis are not simply "broken people" they are fascists who want to kill me, my family and other already vulnerable minorities.

They want to commit genocide. They want to do harm to people. They revere those who came before them and have committed such atrocities.

They deserve neither humanizing nor compassion.

And here it is. The comforting lie.

Talmonis posted:

I didn't say that your view of your oppressor is wrong and apologized that I came off that way. I said that I think it's important to not let people who aided and abetted their rise to power to get off so easily. "Oh, I'm a racist fuckstick who votes hard R so I can poo poo on minorities, but I'm not a Nazi since I don't just scream the N-word at passing motorists." The right in this country uses "Nazi" as an easily pilloried scarecrow to hide their crimes behind. "Monster" doesn't have the same impact. Again, just in my opinion.

HootTheOwl posted:

I...what?

stone cold posted:

nazis are monsters

how is this hard

Democrazy posted:

I was just making a joke about how this began with a discussion tied to net neutrality and is now about whether it’s okay to commit violence against Nazis.

It’s not really serious.

NewForumSoftware posted:

if you have to end your arguments this way chances are you're wrong and you know it

stone cold posted:

cool

they’re still nazis you idiot

Democrazy posted:

I was just making a joke about how this began with a discussion tied to net neutrality and is now about whether it’s okay to commit violence against Nazis.

It’s not really serious.

Talmonis posted:

Or, and try to follow me here, I give a poo poo what KM thinks, and don't want to appear to be declaring my viewpoint superior to her's. Because making good people feel like poo poo isn't something I like doing, however inadvertantly.

Talmonis posted:

But people who let them in power get to say "I wasn't a nazi" and absolve themselves of all guilt because "Nazi = Monster". gently caress that.

Koalas March posted:

They are not men. They are monsters.