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an actual dog
Nov 18, 2014

GalacticAcid posted:

surprised this twitter search only yields one hit

twitter search misses stuff all the time

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Plutonis
Mar 25, 2011

read settlers

GalacticAcid
Apr 8, 2013

NEW YORK VALUES
Adam Hochschild, who wrote thread-recommended King Leopold's Ghost and Spain in Our Hearts, has a good review up at the NYRB on two recent books about the Klan. Some of this info was new to me, and it's a pretty useful primer on the Klan's historical social base and organizational structure.

The Klan's anticommunism is ignored, which isn't a big surprise for the New York Review.

Darkman Fanpage
Jul 4, 2012

gently caress you i came up with this like a year ago and only said it now

Darkman Fanpage
Jul 4, 2012

Karl Barks posted:

one of the stranger things with settlers is there doesn't appear to be a picture of j sakai in existence

because it's a pseudonym

Karl Barks
Jan 21, 1981

Darkman Fanpage posted:

because it's a pseudonym

yeah..... for the CIA

Sheng-Ji Yang
Mar 5, 2014


https://twitter.com/redditships/status/934863455647092736

Mean Baby
May 28, 2005

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8ynNRN_MxQ

ATP_Power
Jun 12, 2010

This is what fascinates me most in existence: the peculiar necessity of imagining what is, in fact, real.



It's definitely a red flag
:ussr:

tag youre fat
Aug 16, 2013

C'est l'homme ideal
charme au masculin
what's lf's position on why debord killed himself

R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991

tag youre fat posted:

what's lf's position on why debord killed himself

he read your posts

Karl Barks
Jan 21, 1981

so other than the land expropriating (which i would argue is anti colonialism) what exactly did mugabe do that could be considered socialism

people are Extremely Upset about the jacobin again cause of a mugabe article

Karl Barks fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Nov 28, 2017

BrutalistMcDonalds
Oct 4, 2012


Lipstick Apathy

Karl Barks posted:

so other than the land expropriating (which i would argue is anti colonialism) what exactly did mugabe do that could be considered socialism

people are Extremely Upset about the jacobin again cause of a mugabe article
dunno but my understanding is that ZANU-PF dropped all references to marxism and socialism in the early 1990s.

i noticed the article's author is named nkomo. for all i know it's a common surname and there is no relation but it's shared by joshua nkomo of the ZANU-PF's soviet-aligned rival, ZAPU.

BrutalistMcDonalds
Oct 4, 2012


Lipstick Apathy
maybe i'm being unfair to the tankies (heh) and i want to sympathize but to me it seems like they take the right's definition of communism and apply it to themselves. so robert mugabe in 2017 is still waging the cold war struggle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpxzrNRjWmU

i was thinking of the "rural people's party" which in their case were neo-nazis who became pro-DPRK tankies and didn't *entirely* drop the nazi stuff. their attraction to the DPRK was entirely on an aesthetic level, and since juche is a sham doctrine that nobody actually reads.

BrutalistMcDonalds fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Nov 28, 2017

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

BrutalistMcDonalds posted:

maybe i'm being unfair to the tankies (heh) and i want to sympathize but to me it seems like they take the right's definition of communism and apply it to themselves. so robert mugabe in 2017 is still waging the cold war struggle.

It's because Neocons still have a hard-on for invading Zimbabwe, and there was a push at the end of Bush's term in office to try and get him to do another regime change there.

Karl Barks
Jan 21, 1981

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

It's because Neocons still have a hard-on for invading Zimbabwe, and there was a push at the end of Bush's term in office to try and get him to do another regime change there.

i feel like this is the trap the left gets stuck in all the time - does my opposition to american imperialism necessitate defending governments i would otherwise despise

GalacticAcid
Apr 8, 2013

NEW YORK VALUES

Karl Barks posted:

does my opposition to american imperialism necessitate defending governments i would otherwise despise

Yes

Serf
May 5, 2011


Karl Barks posted:

i feel like this is the trap the left gets stuck in all the time - does my opposition to american imperialism necessitate defending governments i would otherwise despise

you don't have to defend them. it's not an issue of "we shouldn't go and do an imperialism because they're good" and more "we shouldn't go an do an imperialism because that's not our job"

lollontee
Nov 4, 2014
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!

Serf posted:

you don't have to defend them. it's not an issue of "we shouldn't go and do an imperialism because they're good" and more "we shouldn't go an do an imperialism because that's not our job"

I would agree, which is why protesting the Iraq war worked.

Karl Barks
Jan 21, 1981

when I say I don't want to defend, I'm not saying I support US military action in those countries of course. but i would support a worker's revolt in places like DPRK and Zimbabwe.

Karl Barks
Jan 21, 1981

lol okay i didn't realize DPRK had also removed all references to communism from it's constitution as well

lollontee
Nov 4, 2014
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!
juche thought is basically like marxism upgraded

Yossarian-22
Oct 26, 2014

I feel like nationalism and anti-imperialism get inevitably too wound up with each other, as though there's some kind of national identity that needs to be protected from foreign encroachment. This becomes problematic around issues like immigration, when "solidarity with kosovar albanians" becomes a prelude to mass deportations of serbs, for example

And that' s to say nothing of the idea that all liberation movements have to necessarily be anti-Western or that all imperialism has to be perpetuated by the West. Kosovo was a "liberation struggle" or "Western imperialism" depending on your point of view. Catalonia has had soft backing by Russian imperialism in order to undermine the EU

geopolitics is a land of contrasts

Yossarian-22 fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Nov 28, 2017

Karl Barks
Jan 21, 1981

lollontee posted:

juche thought is basically like marxism upgraded

marx is a western ideologue, after all

Karl Barks
Jan 21, 1981

https://twitter.com/isacnyc20/status/928116962831618048

BrutalistMcDonalds
Oct 4, 2012


Lipstick Apathy

lollontee posted:

juche thought is basically like marxism upgraded
the b.r. myers book on juche (not cleanest race, the other one) argues that juche was basically invented for foreign consumption and the only serious references to it were from a handful of interviews kim il-sung gave to indian and japanese journalists in the 60s and 70s.

but academics in the west were like "juche? this must be big!" and started writing papers on it; which then found their way back into actual north korean literature in the 80s. but it's pretty much a fake ideology and a bunch of :words:

lollontee
Nov 4, 2014
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!

BrutalistMcDonalds posted:

the b.r. myers book on juche (not cleanest race, the other one) argues that juche was basically invented for foreign consumption and the only serious references to it were from a handful of interviews kim il-sung gave to indian and japanese journalists in the 60s and 70s.

but academics in the west were like "juche? this must be big!" and started writing papers on it; which then found their way back into actual north korean literature in the 80s. but it's pretty much a fake ideology and a bunch of :words:

you're saying it's a stand alone memeplex invented by me

R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991

BrutalistMcDonalds posted:

the b.r. myers book on juche (not cleanest race, the other one) argues that juche was basically invented for foreign consumption and the only serious references to it were from a handful of interviews kim il-sung gave to indian and japanese journalists in the 60s and 70s.

but academics in the west were like "juche? this must be big!" and started writing papers on it; which then found their way back into actual north korean literature in the 80s. but it's pretty much a fake ideology and a bunch of :words:

br meyers is an idiot

Karl Barks
Jan 21, 1981

i dunno he looks cool to me

BrutalistMcDonalds
Oct 4, 2012


Lipstick Apathy

R. Guyovich posted:

br meyers is an idiot
maybe but all the pro-DPRK juche kids on twitter seem to base their appreciation of it on pictures of military parades and mass games and i've never heard an explanation of what "juche" actually is

BrutalistMcDonalds
Oct 4, 2012


Lipstick Apathy
has any marxist even read the collected works of kim il-sung? lol it's a ridiculous idea.

well, you see, comrade; juche is about the self-reliance on the juche idea based on the masses coordinating self-reliantly and on the basis of juche thought

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

Karl Barks posted:

when I say I don't want to defend, I'm not saying I support US military action in those countries of course. but i would support a worker's revolt in places like DPRK and Zimbabwe.

Ok, but a worker's revolt isn't what's happening in Zimbabwe.

The bottom line is that the end of the cold war did not bring an end to the imperialist structure of global capitalism, or its insatiable desire to open up every single nation to first world exploitation. Was Mugabe a good leader for Zimbabwe? Obiously not, but we also shouldn't kid ourselves that any interest in regime change for Zimbabwe was motivated by a genuine interest in their welfare.

Karl Barks
Jan 21, 1981

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

Ok, but a worker's revolt isn't what's happening in Zimbabwe.

The bottom line is that the end of the cold war did not bring an end to the imperialist structure of global capitalism, or its insatiable desire to open up every single nation to first world exploitation. Was Mugabe a good leader for Zimbabwe? Obiously not, but we also shouldn't kid ourselves that any interest in regime change for Zimbabwe was motivated by a genuine interest in their welfare.

nor am i expecting that. but as far as things to support go...

maybe i'm just reading too many fringey twitter users, but there are definitely people saying mugabe was a good leader and should be supported on the basis he is a socialist.

rudatron
May 31, 2011

by Fluffdaddy
According To Some Article I Read, the big reason for Mugabe being outed wasn't the west, but China. Zimbabwe needs foreign investment, and Mugabe tried a lot to to encourage China into moving in, I imagine because its not the west. But China hasn't made that much of a move, mostly because it, like the west, concluded it didn't like its chances of actually making money, and not getting burned. So, for the sake of getting foreign investment, the coup happens.

Sheng-Ji Yang
Mar 5, 2014


Pener Kropoopkin posted:

It's because Neocons still have a hard-on for invading Zimbabwe, and there was a push at the end of Bush's term in office to try and get him to do another regime change there.

lol

GalacticAcid
Apr 8, 2013

NEW YORK VALUES

Karl Barks posted:

i dunno he looks cool to me



R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991

BrutalistMcDonalds posted:

has any marxist even read the collected works of kim il-sung? lol it's a ridiculous idea.

well, you see, comrade; juche is about the self-reliance on the juche idea based on the masses coordinating self-reliantly and on the basis of juche thought

i read current cpc theory and a lot of it does the same stuff rhetorically. it's a problem of translation; for obvious reasons neither the dprk nor the cpc hires native speakers of english to do the translation work, and in the case of the dprk there's no access to the material in the original language

R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991

for example, kim il-sung's biography, with the century, is kind of a mess in english but koreans (dprk, obviously; banned in the south) read it enthusiastically. even defectors admit their genuine admiration for it as a literary work

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

When can I watch the Juche Cinematic Universe?

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BrutalistMcDonalds
Oct 4, 2012


Lipstick Apathy

R. Guyovich posted:

for example, kim il-sung's biography, with the century, is kind of a mess in english but koreans (dprk, obviously; banned in the south) read it enthusiastically. even defectors admit their genuine admiration for it as a literary work
now that i don't doubt, but the bio isn't really marxist theory, though, right? more stories of kim il sung's heroic exploits. i know DPRK literature is a big thing.

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

When can I watch the Juche Cinematic Universe?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCKSR0JArUQ

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