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SuperKlaus posted:This exactly. It's been a problem in game design for an eternity. Designers keep making these "werewolf hunter" classes, if you will. Are there werewolves? The hunter makes everything trivial. Are there not werewolves? The hunter plays with his phone while everyone else games. Not cool. So maybe don't pick Werewolf hunter unless you like the idea of being a Werewolf hunter from a roleplaying standpoint? If it is no fun being a Werewolf hunter because it is either too powerful or not powerful enough mechanically, play a Vampire Slayer instead.
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Nov 29, 2017 00:05
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What do you do when there are no vampires? Pretend I had stated that "classes that only work against X suck because they trivialize X and do nothing otherwise." C'mon son.
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Nov 29, 2017 00:59
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If you're having trouble determining whose fault this is, use the following chart. Roll 1d6: 1 - It's the player's fault for choosing a highly specialized character who excels greatly at one thing and has no value except in that situation. 2 - It's the DM's fault for not designing a story and encounters that allow each player to shine. 3 - It's the designers' fault for designing character in an extreme way that polarize them into either extremely useful or useless for the sake of theme. 4 - It's the players' fault for mathing the system too much, instead of accepting that some characters will be suboptimal for the sake for role-playing. 5 - It's the DM's fault for mathing his encounters too specifically in a way that only min-maxed characters will be effective in each scenario. 6 - It's the designers' fault for mathing their system in such a way that certain characters either fall too high or too low above the difficulty curve based on their powers.
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Nov 29, 2017 01:18
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2! It's #2!
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Nov 29, 2017 01:22
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Quidthulhu posted:2! It's #2! This guy gets it.
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Nov 29, 2017 02:51
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Lord_Hambrose posted:I think one thing about the Kuni is that there role is pretty defined. Other than fighting Shadowlands guys directly or witch hunting inside the empire what else should they be doing? You could always try to build an unstoppable undead army on your way to lichhood. Or is that too cliche?
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Nov 29, 2017 05:02
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I mean honestly, math wise, you can be pretty suboptimal and still succeed at things pretty easy. I actually have commented on the official forums multiple times that it seems like all the math is balanced assuming that no one even has school skills, and so school skills just make you more likely to succeed. Having a good one isn't assumption dice math wise. Kuni definitely look like they can be built better than ours. And he still is at least succeeding at hurting things in fights (and getting some kills), and helping us with supporting spells. He just also feels like the isawa player could do much more (Though I also don't understand why he built for mostly support spells besides his anti taint ones, seeing as our isawa refuses to take violent spells)
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Nov 29, 2017 12:51
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KittyEmpress posted:I mean honestly, math wise, you can be pretty suboptimal and still succeed at things pretty easy. I actually have commented on the official forums multiple times that it seems like all the math is balanced assuming that no one even has school skills, and so school skills just make you more likely to succeed. Having a good one isn't assumption dice math wise. Tell him to get Tetsubo of Earth, so he can combine his skill at magic with his skill at beating the poo poo out of things. I still think it's not ideal that the Kuni abilities basically exist only in one specific context, but that particular spell is basically made for them and is generally useful, so long as you want to hurt something.
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Nov 29, 2017 13:42
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Is there anything stopping a Kuni from throwing on armor and playing full-time bushi? I mean they won't be able to wear heavy armor without penalty like a Hida, but still.
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Nov 29, 2017 17:01
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I don't think shugenja have ever had any gear restrictions in L5R, not like their no-armor wizard cousins in D&D. Everyone in L5R wears kimono and uses katana (Hida typically excepted) by pure force of "supposed to." edit: I'd like to see the Wargear tag in this edition carry a +1 TN penalty to Social Skills in intrigues and non-war narratives. The strife thing doesn't really convey the inappropriateness the flavor text box harps, what with how it's potentially useful for the Wargear wearer. Also for the record as much as I bang on about limiting shugenja I wouldn't want them to be gear-restricted. As a setting thing the kami shouldn't really give a drat whether their caller is wearing armor or whatever. They answer prayers in war all the time. SuperKlaus fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Nov 29, 2017 |
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Nov 29, 2017 18:38
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In the setting, wearing your armor at all is not something that you would do at all unless you are going into battle, a guard, or being in Crab lands (where fucks are not given). Walking around town in light armor (especially outside your own clan's holdings) is like if a fully kitted out special forces squad was walking around a Wal-Mart. Maybe not impossible, but likely to cause a stir.
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Nov 30, 2017 01:16
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Lord_Hambrose posted:In the setting, wearing your armor at all is not something that you would do at all unless you are going into battle, a guard, or being in Crab lands (where fucks are not given). Yes, the restrictions on armor have always been based in story concerns. Wearing armor when you're not on active duty is an attack on the clan whose lands you're in, either a literal one, or on their reputation, as you're saying openly you don't trust them to keep their lands safe. In warfare, shugenja who wear armor are likely to be killed as a bushi, rather than captured as the valuable shugenja they are.
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Nov 30, 2017 01:24
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I really like that Shugenja are so rare that they are returned to the parent clan after a battle, even if they execute everyone else. I guess killing pacifist priests is always frowned upon.
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Nov 30, 2017 18:27
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"Pacifist" 
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Nov 30, 2017 19:35
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Dick Burglar posted:"Pacifist" I got to throw a Pacifism on Toturi tonight. That felt good. However, I almost lost via dishonoring as Scorpion. That was bad.
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Nov 30, 2017 20:03
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That's just it though. The game ought to have teeth like a penalty to Social interactions put on Wargear-tag items because we are playing a game, and in games rules exist to incentivize behavior. That is what makes games games and sets RPGs apart from writing a novel collaboratively. Anyway this somehow spun out of school balance, from mention of the Kuni I guess. Anybody got any other thoughts on RPG schools being OP or UP? PaybackJack posted:I got to throw a Pacifism on Toturi tonight. That felt good. I always skate on the bottom of the honor barrel playing Scorpion with high bids and discarding Dishonored dudes who've been Calling Favors and Forging Edicts. It's part of the fun and I haven't died that way yet but when I do I know it will be all in the game.
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Dec 1, 2017 01:27
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I havent played a ton. Is guardian's of the seikitsu just better than defend the wall for crab?
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Dec 1, 2017 01:46
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SuperKlaus posted:That's just it though. The game ought to have teeth like a penalty to Social interactions put on Wargear-tag items because we are playing a game, and in games rules exist to incentivize behavior. That is what makes games games and sets RPGs apart from writing a novel collaboratively. Kitsuki Investigators are better off and have a stronger school power if they DON'T learn to investigate the thing they are after. Doji is very stron at high ranks, but once a scene on a single check. If your social scene is having 20 checks from them... well, that's not great. Most of the others I find fine in terms of not being underpowered KittyEmpress fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Dec 1, 2017 |
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Dec 1, 2017 02:05
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alg posted:I havent played a ton. Is guardian's of the seikitsu just better than defend the wall for crab? I'd agree. Its a strong consideration for your Stronghold. The alternative is Riot in the Streets. For me, I'm using Rally.or Riot on stronghold and sticking to Defend the Wall as part of province line.
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Dec 1, 2017 02:13
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I never implied that shugenja should roll up into town draped in full armor and carrying a big gently caress-off weapon. Of course that is not okay. I was asking if, in combat with non-supernatural enemies, there was a reason a Kuni couldn't wear armor and use a weapon to fill in as a bushi. Considering they get access to kata, is there anything that makes them mechanically worse bushi besides their school techniques not giving them bonuses to weapon-based combat? Yes, I understand the story aspect of how they will likely get executed like bushi rather than captured like shugenja, but aside from that. Dick Burglar fucked around with this message at 02:20 on Dec 1, 2017 |
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Dec 1, 2017 02:16
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Dick Burglar posted:I never implied that shugenja should roll up into town draped in full armor and carrying a big gently caress-off weapon. Of course that is not okay. I was asking if, in combat with non-supernatural enemies, there was a reason a Kuni couldn't wear armor and use a weapon to fill in as a bushi. Considering they get access to kata, is there anything that makes them mechanically worse bushi besides their school techniques not giving them bonuses to weapon-based combat? Crab don't give a gently caress. They might have even started with light armor in first edition. Being the Shugenja who physically fights is definitely going to take away from your magic progression but that seems like a fair trade off.
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Dec 1, 2017 10:06
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Lord_Hambrose posted:Crab don't give a gently caress. They might have even started with light armor in first edition. Being the Shugenja who physically fights is definitely going to take away from your magic progression but that seems like a fair trade off. Well, if you invest in kata about as much as another shugenja would in shuji (since all other shugenja get that instead), you should be about equal magic-wise really.
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Dec 1, 2017 10:17
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Dick Burglar posted:I never implied that shugenja should roll up into town draped in full armor and carrying a big gently caress-off weapon. Of course that is not okay. I was asking if, in combat with non-supernatural enemies, there was a reason a Kuni couldn't wear armor and use a weapon to fill in as a bushi. Considering they get access to kata, is there anything that makes them mechanically worse bushi besides their school techniques not giving them bonuses to weapon-based combat? Not only is there no reason for them not to, frankly, the Crab is not going to give a poo poo. Mechanically there is no penalty whatsoever, so long as it's a situation where you'd normally be allowed to wear armor. At best, a shugenja who wears armor is going to get some sideeye, maybe some insults about pretending to be a bushi or not being a real shugenja, but frankly, 1) the crab don't care, and 2) who's going to bother insulting a crab that way? The fact that there's no mechanical penalty, only a potential and nebulous social one is absolutely fine. There's little enough mechanical advantage and it serves as a useful illustration of how social custom binds samurai as much as actual game rules do.
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Dec 1, 2017 13:14
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There is a mechanical penalty to heavier armors, to be fair. It's the one the Hida ignore. But yeah throw your Kuni in ashigaru armor if you want.
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Dec 1, 2017 17:19
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Edit: just went back and looked at Dragon families and it mentions Agasha. Guess I answered my own question. Dick Burglar fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Dec 1, 2017 |
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Dec 1, 2017 17:25
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Yeah, no second day of Thunder means no Agasha defection in the first place, IIRC? Timeline resets!
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Dec 1, 2017 18:08
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unseenlibrarian posted:Yeah, no second day of Thunder means no Agasha defection in the first place, IIRC? It's an even later and less likely deviation, at this point. No Hitomi tattooing random people with mind control tattoos means no Agasha defection. Have we even seen Hitomi on screen?
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Dec 1, 2017 19:48
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unseenlibrarian posted:Yeah, no second day of Thunder means no Agasha defection in the first place, IIRC? I miss the glory days of Phoenix having three Shugenja families. They did some neat stuff with the Agasha as a Phoenix family honestly, and the Tamori were great as the second rowdiest wizard family.
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Dec 1, 2017 19:59
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alg posted:I havent played a ton. Is guardian's of the seikitsu just better than defend the wall for crab? Maybe? Bowing a bunch of little dudes against Lion would be cool, for example. Defend the Wall hasn't worked well with my playstyle, so I'm chucking it.
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Dec 1, 2017 21:31
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Lord_Hambrose posted:I miss the glory days of Phoenix having three Shugenja families. They did some neat stuff with the Agasha as a Phoenix family honestly, and the Tamori were great as the second rowdiest wizard family. I'm not gonna be over timeline resets eliminating the Monkey clan until they give me an equivalent 'no we were totally not founded by a secret peasant who found a sword and happened to be in the right place/right time' minor clan so I feel you.
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Dec 1, 2017 22:18
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unseenlibrarian posted:I'm not gonna be over timeline resets eliminating the Monkey clan until they give me an equivalent 'no we were totally not founded by a secret peasant who found a sword and happened to be in the right place/right time' minor clan so I feel you.   Monkey Clan were really cool. Still, restarting the timeline wipes our so many nonsensical events that it can only be a huge net positive. I really liked Daigotsu and the Spider Clan, but maybe they will do some of the good stuff over. I can do without Naseru taking some of my favorite characters into the Shadowlands for a pointless off screen death because the players chose the wrong wind as Emperor.
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Dec 1, 2017 22:38
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THE PEOPLE DEMAND O-USHI Related I am having a devil of a hard time finding grey card sleeves for my Crab deck. Ultra Pro doesn't seem to make grey and I can't find someone who does. It's the sticking point in finishing my color-coded sleeve project for all Clans. Is anyone else color-coding their Clans? Give me your Crab solutions. And less related I think L5RCG is, at this point in time, a good game. In a match yesterday I feel like I could identify no fewer than three different points where the game could have swung one way or another and in every one of those points the critical juncture was a play decision, not a deckbuilding choice or a matter of X being in hand or not. (aside: Pay some fuckin' attention to real card game design, Blizzard.)
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Dec 2, 2017 02:34
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If I played Crab I would totally be on Senjougahara Hitagi sleeves.
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Dec 2, 2017 04:27
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SuperKlaus posted:THE PEOPLE DEMAND O-USHI Craaaaaaaab Yeah, the game is good and fun, even if there are some design hickups (although I've heard 3rd hand that Unicorn weakness is the symptom of MASSIVE nerfs over and over again over the playtesting process because they were insanely powerful.) I enjoy the game a lot.
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Dec 2, 2017 16:07
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How about BCW sleeves? They're the only ones I'm finding that have a "grey" color available.KittyEmpress posted:Kitsuki Investigators are better off and have a stronger school power if they DON'T learn to investigate the thing they are after. Thanks btw. The Kitsuki are really weird like that I guess. "He's got no idea what he's talking about. And he's always right...?" SuperKlaus fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Dec 3, 2017 |
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Dec 3, 2017 08:12
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NinjaDebugger posted:It's an even later and less likely deviation, at this point. No Hitomi tattooing random people with mind control tattoos means no Agasha defection. Have we even seen Hitomi on screen? If they dont do the Hitomi/Nothing story in some variation, and the Hoshi/Hitomi stare-off then they fail. The main stuff they need to avoid is the random mish-mashing of Burning Sands and warped Kali lore into samurai-and-shugenja world. (Also they need to not release $100 worth of cards at a time.  )
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Dec 3, 2017 19:14
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SuperKlaus posted:How about BCW sleeves? They're the only ones I'm finding that have a "grey" color available. I disagree with you on a lot of points, but I'm down for posting my own experiences and opinions to see how they work out with yours. I'm starting to think the Togashi power might be a little weak too tbh. It looks like it's something that will be good at low ranks when you are rolling like 4-5 dice total. Then you get to where you are rolling 8 and... well, it's less great sounding.
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Dec 4, 2017 03:05
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Yeah I think they're pretty awful. Maybe worse than the Shiba. As you get Skill Ranks the odds that you can't find productive stuff to keep and would actually want that added rolled Ops shrink fast. re: the Doji, what do you feel makes them different from Isawa and Shinjo, who also get a power boost once/scene? Are you commonly making lots more rolls during social scenes?
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Dec 4, 2017 06:46
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So I'm noticing that this week nobody seemed to have full pack spoilers before the pack actually came out. I just read the contents of Imperial pack 5 on kolatinformant. And I'm noticing how often my prolific pointless posting bumps the thread here. How's this stacking up to Netrunner's early days? Is the game weak or is this forum just so dead? I feel like I see plenty of matches on jigoku online and anecdotally know of at least one dozen-strong IRL regular play group. Yet online resources seem slow. It's a good game, far as I can tell, that deserves success.
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Dec 7, 2017 17:22
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SuperKlaus posted:So I'm noticing that this week nobody seemed to have full pack spoilers before the pack actually came out. There was some house cleaning, or so I'm told.
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Dec 7, 2017 17:29
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