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Have you guys seen this yet? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43gm3CJePn0
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Nov 30, 2017 03:51
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Grouchio posted:Have you guys seen this yet? No, but thank you for loving up my YouTube recommendations. These lovely forums need a Youtube preview...thing
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Nov 30, 2017 03:53
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BigRed0427 posted:No, but thank you for loving up my YouTube recommendations. Right click -> Open in incognito tab Recommendations preserved.
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Nov 30, 2017 03:54
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selec posted:Contra mid-thread on Twitter right now, talking about why she's going to the event that has everybody het up. From the other thread generally on the topic Yardbomb posted:This all just feels so insanely naive.
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Nov 30, 2017 03:56
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i'll take naive over sleeper agent
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Nov 30, 2017 04:03
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Reading that, I still think it's a bad idea. Her reasoning is sensible, to her at least, but if this group was as decent as she claims them to be, they probably shouldn't have gone with Blaire White to be her opposite. There's nothing reasonable about her views whatsoever. They probably should have had her debate that Theryn Meyer lady and one of the organizers be the moderator. It's a Leftist discussing things with a very right-wing views, moderated by a "moderate conservative" (I honestly don't know anything about Theryn Meyer) in a conservative ran event. This like missing the the forest for the trees. There's probably a big reason why you don't have folk like Blaire going on stage with a leftists, a leftist moderator in a leftist event. What's sad is I don't think everyone's "I told you so" will at all be constructive or helps things when this fails horribly.
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Nov 30, 2017 04:05
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Jimbot posted:(I honestly don't know anything about Theryn Meyer) They've said dumb racist poo poo, blindly go to bat for the cheeto golem and pull this kind of crap. 
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Nov 30, 2017 04:11
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So...my thoughts. Coming from a Trans Woman. Contra's heart is in the right place. I really think it is. I think actually talking to people, especially people who don't agree with you on big things is actually super important. Not doing that is what is one of the small pieces that is loving up the US right now I think. Especially for the trans community. We need to become better advocates for ourselves and our idea of what it means to be trans. (A Trans and Queer community that includes everyone who is Gender Nonconforming, none of this truescum, only two genders bullshit) It's going to be hard. It's going to lead to some uncomfortable poo poo. But we do need to get out there and tell out stories. Otherwise The loving Daily Mail is the one who gets to tell Cis people what being Trans means and that will end with all of us being dead. HOWEVER! With that needs to come with it the ability to pick out bad faith actors and people who just want the opportunity to either just poo poo on you, say terrible poo poo, and just make you feel as small as loving possible and NOT. GIVE. THEM. THE. TIME. OF. DAY! And I think Contra doesn't have that skill. The better way to do this I think is to grab people who actually want to listen to you. The Alt-Right is a super small minority, even among conservatives. There are plenty of Cis people who want to actually learn what being Transgender means and want to hear our stories but don't know where to turn. Hell there are a lot of normie conservatives who want to learn what it means to be be Transgender. Spending time on Alt-Righters is just pounding your hand with a hammer at this point. We change minds by going after the people who want to actually listen, not the ones who want to dance on our graves. I didn't really listen to it the first time around but I think I really need to. Dylan Marron's Podcast "Conversations with people who hate me" Is all about him talking to people who leave mean comments about him online and just talking to him. The difference though is Dylan pre-screens the interviews and only does episodes with the people that actually wan't to listen and talk to him. Not the shitheads. The Strangest thing about this is something I think we talked about before with YouTube personalities. I did look up to Contra. Even before she came out as trans as was the Crossdressing weirdo on Leftist YouTube, I thought she was awesome. Over time I started to tell people she was my queen.Now this poo poo happens and...it's not even disappointment, it's finding out someone you really looked up to is human and not this perfect being who is always right. That they will do things that even make you mad. Maybe this just shows that somethings wrong with me for putting so much faith in a YouTuber. Edit: One other thing. Contra said she does not know how to talk to leftist. I do not believe that. Contra really sells herself short. THere were/are plenty of Leftist fans of her channel. SHe knew how to talk to them. I don't think she even realizes it I'm relearning the same big lesson I learned after the 2016 election: BREAK. YOUR. IDOLS! There is no knight in shining armor coming to save us. The people next to you are all we got. BigRed0427 fucked around with this message at 05:06 on Nov 30, 2017 |
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Nov 30, 2017 04:34
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I don't know. I think Bernie would put on a pair of catgirl ears, wield a baseball bat and have your back against alt-right assholes. He seems like he'd roll that way.
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Nov 30, 2017 04:39
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Jimbot posted:I don't know. I think Bernie would put on a pair of catgirl ears, wield a baseball bat and have your back against alt-right assholes. He seems like he'd roll that way.
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Nov 30, 2017 04:50
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I agree with this. Debates are one form of engagement. I know some activists in real life and see what they do. I never read how internet leftists intend to engage their communities. It isn't about arguing with opponents, its about members of our community. I could make some assumptions but I don't know how full communism is going to be possible without community engagement and dealing with problematic ideas.
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Nov 30, 2017 04:53
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Jimbot posted:I don't know. I think Bernie would put on a pair of catgirl ears, wield a baseball bat and have your back against alt-right assholes. He seems like he'd roll that way. bernie is already a proud catman. insinuating that his cat ears are fake is pretty disgusting racism tbh ngl
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Nov 30, 2017 05:06
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noether posted:bernie is already a proud catman. insinuating that his cat ears are fake is pretty disgusting racism tbh ngl He wears catgirl ears to compliment his cat ears. He doubles down on this stuff to make sure it's done right!
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Nov 30, 2017 05:11
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selec posted:Contra mid-thread on Twitter right now, talking about why she's going to the event that has everybody het up. she smashed it imo. i trust contra.
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Nov 30, 2017 09:38
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It felt like more of the same from her tbh
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Nov 30, 2017 11:29
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Lovechop posted:she smashed it imo. i trust contra. I don’t, because she’s still boosting a white-supremacist fundraiser. I mean, talking to Nazis is one thing, but is it honestly that hard to do it without hawking tickets for their events? That’s the ‘trap’ option that she misses here - that this won’t be a Carrie-style public humiliation or anything dramatic like that, but a case of her talking, being ignored, and landing the organisation a significant amount of money which they will then proceed to use for awful poo poo.
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Nov 30, 2017 12:01
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Darth Walrus posted:I mean, talking to Nazis is one thing, but is it honestly that hard to do it without hawking tickets for their events? This is 100% my issue here. Personally I feel it's pointless to debate most people so far down the political toilet, but when it's just poking holes in them on some podcast it's whatever, you might coax the occasional viewer out of their terrible path and that does happen sometimes, which is great. But agreeing to speak at some right wing sideshow which is explicitly lining their pockets, why, tell them to get bent, because say you do convince some people even at that place, cool, but if even a dollar of that sideshow goes to further abusing LGBT people, then fat lot of good you actually did.
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Nov 30, 2017 12:12
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Lessail posted:It felt like more of the same from her tbh I think that she does not realize how much privilege she had as a masculine presenting white person of authority, and that as an out trans woman her credibility has gone straight down the toilet for many people.
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Nov 30, 2017 12:40
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I think what it comes down to for me is that she references how her videos have changed peoples minds and in that thread how classes have. Yet these are very different methods than debating, like Shaun said on curious cat debates are preformative and groups like TERFS and the Alt Right have gotten very good at using the debate structure to win even if they are empirically wrong/lose. Similarly I find the way she talks about wanting to get drunk with alt light people but then mentions she has trouble debating/communicating with the left as somewhat of a double standard. I'm glad that in the second thread she's getting some space though.
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Nov 30, 2017 12:41
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Stormgale posted:I think what it comes down to for me is that she references how her videos have changed peoples minds and in that thread how classes have. Yet these are very different methods than debating, like Shaun said on curious cat debates are preformative and groups like TERFS and the Alt Right have gotten very good at using the debate structure to win even if they are empirically wrong/lose. Similarly I find the way she talks about wanting to get drunk with alt light people but then mentions she has trouble debating/communicating with the left as somewhat of a double standard. This isn’t a formal debate. It’s a ‘discussion’. They’ll all waffle at each other for an hour, nobody will listen, and then they’ll pocket the money she raised for them and use it to drive a few more trans/Muslim kids into suicide.
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Nov 30, 2017 12:45
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Grouchio posted:Have you guys seen this yet? At least he’s wearing a knockoff hat.
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Nov 30, 2017 12:46
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Darth Walrus posted:This isn’t a formal debate. It’s a ‘discussion’. They’ll all waffle at each other for an hour, nobody will listen, and then they’ll pocket the money she raised for them and use it to drive a few more trans/Muslim kids into suicide. I was speaking more generally and that doesn't invalidate my point. I agree doing this is bad but I was more interested in Contra's reasoning why.
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Nov 30, 2017 12:49
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noether posted:bernie is already a proud catman. insinuating that his cat ears are fake is pretty disgusting racism tbh ngl [Img] https://i.imgur.com/9JMeXGd_d.jpg[/Img]
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Nov 30, 2017 12:49
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i think i am maybe (probably?) a pretty naive person because i do believe that people want to be good human beings deep down. i've read so many comments on contra's videos where it's people saying they used to have alt-right views because they felt sort of deceived into it or fell into places where those views are constantly regurgitated, but then they saw someone who was very honest and relatable and it made them start to question their world view. it does take an incredible amount of effort / bravery / etc to try to reach people in this way, so i would never expect everyone to (and i can very much see why people wouldn't) but it seems commendable to me. maybe i am a dumbass but i still have hope for people i think. i'm sure not everyone itt has always held the most perfect views and opinions, sometimes all it takes is the right person to appear and shake everything up.
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Nov 30, 2017 13:12
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Glazier posted:I think that she does not realize how much privilege she had as a masculine presenting white person of authority, and that as an out trans woman her credibility has gone straight down the toilet for many people. Giving a whole lot of leeway to those to the right of her while deciding to unperson those to her left is still pretty lol tho
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Nov 30, 2017 13:13
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Lovechop posted:i think i am maybe (probably?) a pretty naive person because i do believe that people want to be good human beings deep down. i've read so many comments on contra's videos where it's people saying they used to have alt-right views because they felt sort of deceived into it or fell into places where those views are constantly regurgitated, but then they saw someone who was very honest and relatable and it made them start to question their world view. That’s as maybe, but given that the incentives here are entirely ‘pretend to listen to the dumb leftie so she’ll give us money for the reprehensible poo poo we want to do’, this seems like the most rear end-backwards possible way to go about deprogramming Nazis. At the very least, it speaks to a phenomenal arrogance about her persuasive powers on Contra’s part, that her message to them that killing Muslims is bad will outweigh the money she’s giving them to help them kill Muslims.
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Nov 30, 2017 13:30
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BigRed0427 posted:No, but thank you for loving up my YouTube recommendations. why would it do that? it's kinda dumb since the (black) guy who did it is super naive but it's not by a chud. is youtube's algorithm that bad lol
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Nov 30, 2017 14:13
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Youtube can't tell. It just recognizes the keywords.
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Nov 30, 2017 14:15
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amazing. anyway this guy is kinda dumb - from a cnn article about the video:quote:He explained that what makes the video so shocking is that it's not a white supremacist or a neo-Nazi saying these words, but a regular Joe. they're ALL regular joes dude.
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Nov 30, 2017 14:16
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Lessail posted:Giving a whole lot of leeway to those to the right of her while deciding to unperson those to her left is still pretty lol tho Wypipo gonna wypipo 
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Nov 30, 2017 14:18
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Shoe complaining left wing people being mean to contra https://twitter.com/shoe0nhead/status/936065357097459712 Survey Says: https://twitter.com/ChatsuboBlues/status/936077513452871681 Just found it funny they don't even need to sockpuppet anymore.
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Nov 30, 2017 15:23
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Stormgale posted:Similarly I find the way she talks about wanting to get drunk with alt light people but then mentions she has trouble debating/communicating with the left as somewhat of a double standard. This is the weird thing to me. She is really, really good at talking to the left and she doesn't realize it. Lots of people have tried to tell her on Twitter and I don't know if she's really noticed or believed those comments. But that's why I've loved her videos. I'm quite left-wing and I learned a thing or two from her videos, or at the very least found the ones where I didn't learn something new cathartic. I've shared her videos with liberal and left-wing friends on Facebook who've expressed the same thing. I think there's maybe one specific topic where she isn't good at talking to "the left" and it's the topic of how thoroughly to engage with the far right. Not only does she seem to disagree with a lot of her audience on that, but she hasn't done a good job of explaining her side. Maybe that's why she thinks she can't communicate with the left, but by and large she's extremely good at it.
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Nov 30, 2017 16:01
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Stormgale posted:Shoe complaining left wing people being mean to contra Is shoe on head trying for some kind of seduction scene here? “The left goes after me too, Contrapoints. They’re so unreasonable, aren’t they? But just think about how reasonable I am and how the pepes always say they love me and that they’ll think hard about whether or not trans people should be killed.”
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Nov 30, 2017 16:40
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business hammocks posted:Is shoe on head trying for some kind of seduction scene here? It always feels that way when one of these assholes jumps into a situation.
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Nov 30, 2017 16:47
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Harrow posted:I've shared her videos with liberal and left-wing friends These are two groups in opposition to each other.
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Nov 30, 2017 16:48
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Yardbomb posted:It always feels that way when one of these assholes jumps into a situation. She keeps posting on Contrapoints’ twitter and stream chats and on Lindsay Ellis’ stuff like they’re friends having a good time, and even with Hbomb sometimes. It’s strange and unsettling.
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Nov 30, 2017 16:51
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business hammocks posted:She keeps posting on Contrapoints’ twitter and stream chats and on Lindsay Ellis’ stuff like they’re friends having a good time, and even with Hbomb sometimes. It’s strange and unsettling. Was it her and AS that were very pally pally with Lindsay et al at that vidme con?
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Nov 30, 2017 16:55
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i think contra's plan to 'break up' with her audience is a good one. it'll be easier for her to sort through the screaming noise for the good criticism like people here want if she's not also using her fan base as an emotional crutch.
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Nov 30, 2017 16:59
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bessantj posted:Was it her and AS that were very pally pally with Lindsay et al at that vidme con? It was, I think it's somewhat inevitable if you're interacting in the same space for long enough. Like Charlie Brooker and the media he started of Critiquing.
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Nov 30, 2017 17:05
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At this point it reads a little like she just wanted to break up with her fans. (Edit: as AriadneThread said I guess!)quote:She is really, really good at talking to the left She sucks at listening though. And right now she seems to be locked into a narrative of how she is so distraight because she was bullied by irrational lefites -- without like, connecting that to how she hosed up, failed to engage, and exacerbated the problem. The most important part seemed to be her realizing she was just Too Online. But like, if she really believes in calm and rational dialogue, she should be better at it, and not use it as a cheap way to disqualify and mischaracterize criticism. Sax Solo fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Nov 30, 2017 |
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Nov 30, 2017 17:19
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