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gently caress it., reposting my poo poo from DnD. So...my thoughts. Coming from a Trans Woman. Contra's heart is in the right place. I really think it is. I think actually talking to people, especially people who don't agree with you on big things is actually super important. Not doing that is what is one of the small pieces that is loving up the US right now I think. Especially for the trans community. We need to become better advocates for ourselves and our idea of what it means to be trans. (A Trans and Queer community that includes everyone who is Gender Nonconforming, none of this truescum, only two genders bullshit) It's going to be hard. It's going to lead to some uncomfortable poo poo. But we do need to get out there and tell out stories. Otherwise The loving Daily Mail is the one who gets to tell Cis people what being Trans means and that will end with all of us being dead. HOWEVER! With that needs to come with it the ability to pick out bad faith actors and people who just want the opportunity to either just poo poo on you, say terrible poo poo, and just make you feel as small as loving possible and NOT. GIVE. THEM. THE. TIME. OF. DAY! And I think Contra doesn't have that skill. The better way to do this I think is to grab people who actually want to listen to you. The Alt-Right is a super small minority, even among conservatives. There are plenty of Cis people who want to actually learn what being Transgender means and want to hear our stories but don't know where to turn. Hell there are a lot of normie conservatives who want to learn what it means to be be Transgender. Spending time on Alt-Righters is just pounding your hand with a hammer at this point. We change minds by going after the people who want to actually listen, not the ones who want to dance on our graves. I didn't really listen to it the first time around but I think I really need to. Dylan Marron's Podcast "Conversations with people who hate me" Is all about him talking to people who leave mean comments about him online and just talking to him. The difference though is Dylan pre-screens the interviews and only does episodes with the people that actually wan't to listen and talk to him. Not the shitheads. The Strangest thing about this is something I think we talked about before with YouTube personalities. I do look up to Contra. Even before she came out as trans and was the Crossdressing weirdo on Leftist YouTube, I thought she was awesome. Over time I started to tell people she was my queen.Now this poo poo happens and...it's not disappointment, it's finding out someone you really looked up to is human and not this perfect being who is always right. That they will do things that even make you mad. Maybe this just shows that somethings wrong with me for putting so much faith in a YouTuber. Edit: One other thing. Contra said she does not know how to talk to leftist. I do not believe that. Contra really sells herself short. THere were/are plenty of Leftist fans of her channel. SHe knew how to talk to them. I don't think she even realizes it I'm relearning the same big lesson I learned after the 2016 election: BREAK. YOUR. IDOLS! There is no knight in shining armor coming to save us. The people next to you are all we got. BigRed0427 fucked around with this message at 05:38 on Nov 30, 2017 |
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Nov 30, 2017 05:29
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lornekates posted:gently caress that site. Another overbloated Web 3.0 information-harvesting site that needs 200MB of javascript to display two paragraphs of text (plus total "legit" ads like SLUTS IN CANADA WANT TO MEET UP TO MAKE WEED LEGAL). So wordpress or something. I don't know.
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Nov 30, 2017 05:30
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Falstaff posted:I think I'm going to go against the grain of the thread somewhat, since reading all that I'm a lot more sympathetic to Contra's position. I still think she's making a mistake, but I'm a lot more inclined to be forgiving about it, particularly since she's going through a journey I can only start to understand. I respect her enough to give her that much, at least. That's pretty much my feelz too. She's a smart person and has good intentions, but I think this group is-- not right. Or too right (puns, ha!) Her points about their members are "Sure, there was one guy who posted holocaust denial poo poo, but he was banned for being TOO fashy" and also "this group saw what happened at Charlottville and said 'we need to rethink'". I think my read on that is way different than her read. She's giving them the benefit of the doubt. All I see is canaries. If a group is at a point where their members are comfortable being openly holocaust-denial, then that's the tip of a rotten iceberg right there. The telling thing is "too fashy". So it's okay to be a racist, fascist shitbag but keep it on the DL guys, amiright? Booting out the one fool who got too mouthy in public isn't a free pass on any other behavior. And the comment about "we need to rethink our strategy". I feel one side believes this means "they realize being racist fascists is wrong, and want to learn how to clean up their ranks and have inclusive, non-violent, non-hateful discussions" If that were true, not to be too blunt about it, but-- they wouldn't call themselves a far-right group. What I read from that statement is "oh poo poo Charlottsville got us a poo poo-ton of bad PR-- what with the shouting Nazis and the murder and all. We need to rethink how we push our agenda, so that we don't accidentally tip our hand again." And now that I'm typing that out, that means they'd want to learn how to more subtly code their messages, and how to draw more people over to their side without tipping off the general public that they're 'fashy'. What better way than to draw in people who have learned how to decode the right, so they can deploy counter-measures? Maybe someone who also knows how to talk to and distract the left side, too? Maybe someone who is well-spoken, has a Youtube channel with lots of follows... look, you have to know where I'm going with this SO SUBTLE point. So the "trap" wouldn't be "draw her into a crowd and mock her", but rather "give her an open mic so she can teach us how to fix our damaged PR and be more subtle and hidden Nazis-- all without her realizing she's doing it." You know that scene in every bad movie where they trick the villain into monologing, which accidentally gives up the secrets? BUT, all that said, even if I am right (or even if I'm wrong and there's some other evil afoot)-- attacking Contra is NOT the way to go. She's smart, an ally, and like Falstaff said, going through a journey of growth and learning and sometimes you can only let someone journey.
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Nov 30, 2017 05:47
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I dont envy anyone who is transitioning publicly like Contra is.
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Nov 30, 2017 05:50
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BigRed0427 posted:Edit: One other thing. Contra said she does not know how to talk to leftist. I do not believe that. Contra really sells herself short. THere were/are plenty of Leftist fans of her channel. SHe knew how to talk to them. I don't think she even realizes it ++++++AGREE. When I read her posting that, I was like "What? DUDE-- or dudette, I really don't know how dude applies these days-- seriously!" Contra is AMAZING at talking to the left. And actually, if she was looking to change the discourse, I feel she could do WAY MORE GOOD keeping up that conversation. She brings up some really tough points about the left's need to self-reflect, listen more, etc, etc. Like, I think more voices like hers saying the things she's saying could actually help quell the aforementioned "white hot ball of rage looking for a target" that is Twitter. Especially how far she's come in such a short amount of time as far as being a major Youtube voice-- it feels like she's shot up in levels and experience as a mage, then all of a sudden shows up for a raid with a LVL1 alt and everyone's like "wtf, I thought you were a mage, you're so good at it and have put in so much time" and she's like "I feel I can heal more HP hitting things" and then everyone's like "Lorne, what the gently caress is up with this analogy" and then I'm like "how did I get into this MMORPG, I don't even play them, I'm so confused!"
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Nov 30, 2017 05:57
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I think it's possible that this event is overall not good but also Contra could get through to some people there, and I respect her for having the courage to go into this situation while knowing that both sides of the issue are planning to rake her over the coals. Ultimately, I doubt this is going to have any wide-reaching repercussions. ETA: With regard to her ability to talk to leftists, I think a big issue is that she's probably mostly hearing from the really loud, really extreme culture warriors, which would make it really, really difficult to tell that you're being listened to by anyone, because all you're hearing is angry catgirl hissing. Puppy Time fucked around with this message at 06:00 on Nov 30, 2017 |
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Nov 30, 2017 05:58
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Contra's second thread. She's still doing this debate, but it's the last -- she's said she's no longer going to debate right-wing figures. https://twitter.com/ContraPoints/status/936082727346036736 https://twitter.com/ContraPoints/status/936093807904518144
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Nov 30, 2017 06:03
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lol
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Nov 30, 2017 06:08
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SurreptitiousMuffin posted:Contra's second thread. She's still doing this debate, but it's the last -- she's said she's no longer going to debate right-wing figures. Holy poo poo this thread. Everyone in this thread needs to loving read it now.
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Nov 30, 2017 06:11
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it's pretty much what i worried was the case, but didn't want to presume, not knowing them personally glad she's going to work on setting up boundaries
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Nov 30, 2017 06:15
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drat Girl is a bit overdramtatic in that second thread. I get she realizes she hosed up and is fishing for sympathy but keep it grounded (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 30, 2017 06:42
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CharlestheHammer posted:drat Girl is a bit overdramtatic in that second thread. 
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Nov 30, 2017 06:45
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lornekates posted:gently caress that site. Another overbloated Web 3.0 information-harvesting site that needs 200MB of javascript to display two paragraphs of text (plus total "legit" ads like SLUTS IN CANADA WANT TO MEET UP TO MAKE WEED LEGAL).
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Nov 30, 2017 06:46
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Terrible Opinions posted:Why don't you have adblock on? Maybe he wants to meet sluts in Canada who want to legalize weed? Sounds like a good time.
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Nov 30, 2017 06:50
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I know it's a lot to expect common sense to be used for a meltdown but it's still sad.
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Nov 30, 2017 06:54
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CharlestheHammer posted:I know it's a lot to expect common sense to be used for a meltdown but it's still sad.
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Nov 30, 2017 06:59
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Just don't do this one either, there was and is backlash (As in people criticizing, not people making threats or whatever) for a pretty good reason, don't help the chud cult line their pockets, it's that easy.  And so what you've agreed, unless they have you under some ironclad contract or something 
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Nov 30, 2017 07:17
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I remember a time. A time when you could look into a camera and go "Hey, remember Thundercats?" And your audience would go "Now that I think about it, I DO remember Thundercats!" And you'd make a connection, man! From a bond over those loving Thundercats. I remember.
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Nov 30, 2017 10:11
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So anyone remember the channel Innuendo Studios? Its done some interesting think pieces on the usual darlings of the indie gamingshpere. Its currently doing a series about debating online, how it works and why it is the way it is nowadays that's worth a look, especially if this thread is going to stay on this topic for awhile. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJA_jUddXvY7v0VkYRbANnTnzkA_HMFtQ
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Nov 30, 2017 10:21
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poparena posted:I remember a time. Nostalgia is illusory.
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Nov 30, 2017 10:35
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Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:Can you ask Obscurus Lupa to wear a swimsuit for a episode of Baywatching? I've always thought it was really good that Lupa will sometimes theme her outfit to the film she is reviewing. Though to be honest you don't see her in Baywatching so she could do it completely nude and you'd never know.
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Nov 30, 2017 10:46
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bessantj posted:I've always thought it was really good that Lupa will sometimes theme her outfit to the film she is reviewing. Taking a lovely creepy comment and making it even shittier and creepier. Well done! 
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Nov 30, 2017 11:22
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nine-gear crow posted:Taking a lovely creepy comment and making it even shittier and creepier. Well done! Yeah, re-reading I did do that, it wasn't my intention. I only meant that I appreciate the extra effort that Lupa puts into her reviews. Nostalgia Critic just sits at a desk (Or at least he used to I haven't seen his videos in a while) where as Lupa fills out her space with various nick-nacks.
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Nov 30, 2017 11:30
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Fair enough 
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Nov 30, 2017 11:31
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nine-gear crow posted:Fair enough I'm glad you called me on it, the last thing I want is for Lupa to read it (I know her has an account not sure if she posts anymore) and for her to think I'm obsessed with how she dresses during her videos. I'm sure she gets enough of that in the YT comments.
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Nov 30, 2017 11:46
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Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:Can you ask Obscurus Lupa to wear a swimsuit for a episode of Baywatching? Or, an idea, you can stop being a creepy gently caress about people you watch shows of. Deep thoughts there.
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Nov 30, 2017 11:47
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SFDebris has posted the first episode of Hermit's Journey.
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Nov 30, 2017 12:03
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This thread, man. Good discourse plus some dumb fights, and about three creeps that are good to put on ignore. Seeing what Contrapoints is going through makes me sad and hope that I didn’t contribute to it, but it’s probably an inevitable step in working out how to use youtube discursively.
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Nov 30, 2017 12:36
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I think Contra knows exactly what she’s doing. She knows that the group leans towards the far-right, but she’s willing to risk reaching out to them anyway. Because a group is really nothing more than a series of individuals. The minute you start lumping everyone in a group together and assuming that they’re all as bad as their worst member (i.e. “one guy who got kicked out denied the holocaust therefore they all do”) is the minute you stop being able to see things clearly. Contra isn’t going there to win over the entire crowd; she’s going there to win over those who aren’t so bad, but who might be heading that way if they’re left alone. It’s going to be a tough time for her in such a hostile environment. More than I can really understand, frankly, having never been a target of bigotry like she has. It would be nice if all her fair-weather allies tried to support her at a time like this rather than adding to the hostility. Even if you think she’s making a mistake the horrible comments she’s getting are way over the top.
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Nov 30, 2017 13:17
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Bakeneko posted:Because a group is really nothing more than a series of individuals. The minute you start lumping everyone in a group together and assuming that they’re all as bad as their worst member (i.e. “one guy who got kicked out denied the holocaust therefore they all do”) is the minute you stop being able to see things clearly. Strange how this only ever extends rightwards
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Nov 30, 2017 13:27
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Bakeneko posted:I think Contra knows exactly what she’s doing. She knows that the group leans towards the far-right, but she’s willing to risk reaching out to them anyway. the people on the right who can actually be won over aren't going to be attending events like this hth
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Nov 30, 2017 13:29
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Lessail posted:Strange how this only ever extends rightwards Well I can only speak for myself but I consider this to be true of all groups, regardless of political affiliation. There's no such thing as a hivemind.
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Nov 30, 2017 13:32
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financially racist posted:the people on the right who can actually be won over aren't going to be attending events like this hth Again, because it’s a loving fundraiser. They don’t have to insult her or humiliate her for this to be a bad idea. They just have to pretend to listen to her for an hour, then take the money she’s helped raise and use it to advocate for genocide even harder. This isn’t courage, it’s reckless, harmful arrogance.
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Nov 30, 2017 13:34
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Bakeneko posted:There's no such thing as a hivemind. American (It's canada but whatever north america) right-wingers are probably the closest thing in it's absence.
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Nov 30, 2017 13:35
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Yardbomb posted:American (It's canada but whatever north america) right-wingers are probably the closest thing in it's absence. i'd say centrists are actually closer to a hivemind at this point than the right and they are doing way more harm to political discourse than anyone like contrapoints going to this farcical event could ever hope to do.
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Nov 30, 2017 13:36
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Bakeneko posted:Well I can only speak for myself but I consider this to be true of all groups, regardless of political affiliation. There's no such thing as a hivemind. Shame contra's threads rely on painting her critics as a hateful, unreasonable, intellectually dishonest hivemind
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Nov 30, 2017 13:39
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financially racist posted:i'd say centrists are actually closer to a hivemind at this point than the right. I'm gonna beat someone to the punch on "What's the difference? Hachachachacha."
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Nov 30, 2017 13:40
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I think Contrapoints is making a dumb mistake but I also think it's an understandable dumb mistake that I even might've made if I was the same person I was a year or two ago.
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Nov 30, 2017 13:52
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Ok, was at any point, at any time, the part where this exchange of ideas involves aiding said group with a fundraiser addressed in any way? Like, I'm seeing former alt right types and so on going "people like her eeached to me instead of damning me", but was ever "oh, during this intervention I was also getting financially compensated for this" adressed as well.
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Nov 30, 2017 14:11
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She does in the thread 1, I'm at work so I Can't easily go find it but she brings it up.
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Nov 30, 2017 14:14
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