|
Captain Oblivious posted:
https://twitter.com/mikemearls/status/764241988128419840 Already had as of August last year.
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2017 01:08
|
|
Be that as it may, the book sales versus 3E alone make it extremely likely that if it hasn't already, it definitely will outsell 4E and I say that as someone who loves 4E to death.
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 02:47 |
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:A good post. It's really weird how presenting more options makes people feel more like they can't do anything outside the presented options, but it's been a pretty constant thing in D&D forever. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 01:37 on Dec 1, 2017 |
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2017 01:22
|
|
|
AlphaDog posted:It's really weird how presenting more options makes people feel more like they can't do anything outside the presented options, but it's been a pretty constant thing in D&D forever. It's because D&D design 3e onwards has been to compartmentalize, rather than expand ability space. To be clear, I think that's a legitimate design decision but their execution has been...uneven.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2017 01:59
|
|
|
AlphaDog posted:It's really weird how presenting more options makes people feel more like they can't do anything outside the presented options, but it's been a pretty constant thing in D&D forever. It's the way all those options are structured, really. A Fighter has a choice to make at level 3, and once they pick Champion ... that's it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2017 02:00
|
|
|
lovely products often enjoy undeserved success. 5e skates by on the strength of its name alone
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2017 02:01
|
|
|
mango sentinel posted:It's because D&D design 3e onwards has been to compartmentalize, rather than expand ability space. To be clear, I think that's a legitimate design decision but their execution has been...uneven. I think it's been about compartmentalising from much earlier on than that. The thief is an obvious one - when you introduce a new character class that has an ability that nobody else has, people perceive that as meaning that nobody else can get the same result.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2017 02:21
|
|
|
Serf posted:lovely products often enjoy undeserved success. 5e skates by on the strength of its name alone I mean, I think it thuds mechanically, but 5e's relative simplicity seems to have really resonated with a whole bunch of new players. I'd rather they be getting into FATE or something, but once they're playing tabletop RPGs at all, poaching is a lot easier. Frankly, The quality of the game mechanics has only the most tenuous relationship with how much fun your average player who isn't an experienced, jaded RPG nerd like me (or, presumably, you people) will have. LogicNinja fucked around with this message at 02:45 on Dec 1, 2017 |
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2017 02:42
|
|
|
Since someone mentioned my Dwarf Barbarian has kinda lowish AC I'll probably split my extra ability scores between strength and dex next level (4) to bump him up to a +2 for Dex. That'll at least bring him to an AC of 15 rather than 14. And will still bring his strength up to 18 for a juicy +4. Might also think otherwise on my crazy, cool story idea but not optimal dip into Grave Domain Cleric cause something tells me the Curse of Strahd game won't necessarily be continued. Still has a major Hate-On for undead though due to backstory. Hmn. Lizardman will of course continue his transformation into a Warhammer Saurus, maybe even specifically an Oldblood cause man that's an awesome looking Triceratops skull helmet.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2017 02:49
|
|
|
Malpais Legate posted:This thread will tell you that fighters are a mistake and the only way to play martial class is some highly specific paladin with a quarterstaff build. Battlemaster is pretty solid  So are Paladin, EK and Arcane Trickster because magic, and Monk with their wealth of supernatural abilities. It's the rest that suck poo poo when it comes to playstyle.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2017 03:49
|
|
|
If the Hexblade pact counts as a martial, that's a fun one too.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2017 04:19
|
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:It's the way all those options are structured, really. A Fighter has a choice to make at level 3, and once they pick Champion ... that's it. Something I've noticed is that 5th edition tends to be a pretty forgiving system. Yeah people put together a perfectly constructed killing machine because that's part of the fun, but you don't have to do it most of the time. A 2nd edition throwback who's only option is to swing every round is still going to be able to hold their own in a party most of the time. But it does introduce a second level of balance and that's how much do you want to deal with to play this character. And I'm helping a new character start up I almost always ask them about how much paperwork and prep they want to do. A lot of the time players worried about being overwhelmed pick fighter/champion and go from there. Usually they want to switch out pretty fast which is fine. Champion goes back to something people take to flesh out a crit build of some sort.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2017 04:36
|
|
|
Yeah I have never had characters be useless. Every single class that has been played in my games. (Optimial and none optimal) have been able to hold their own and be useful. Ironically the Wizard in my latest game that is 9th level is probably the most useless member of the party.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2017 04:56
|
|
|
Throwing Turtles posted:Something I've noticed is that 5th edition tends to be a pretty forgiving system. I wasn't even really making a "Champions are underpowered" remark there that time. Even if you gave the Champion something like Regeneration, Advantage on all saving throws, and a crit range of 15-20 that improves to 10-20, it's still elementally true that there's no customization to be had past level 3. If the game is so easy, or if the class chassis is already so good that you don't need to optimize, so much the better, but if you open up the game to multi-classing, people are going to think about it regardless because it's right there. A straight 1-to-20 Wizard is one of the most powerful classes in the game, but people keep recommending a Fighter 1/Wizard x anyway, because the option is open to you, so why wouldn't you do it? The thing about pre-WOTC D&D is not just that Fighters were good in and of themselves, and not just that casters were reigned-in by this or that mechanic, but also that once you wrote Fighter in your character sheet, you were locked in. Sure, the Player's Option books might have added a bunch of "kits", but those were actually the "good" kinds of customization (as far as my argument goes) because you're still in your lane. Throwing Turtles posted:Usually they want to switch out pretty fast which is fine. Champion goes back to something people take to flesh out a crit build of some sort. I do agree that it's good practice to attach a very low if not zero cost to character customization permanence, for the sake of accommodating people.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2017 05:35
|
|
|
I think 5E successfully masks some degree of caster supremacy because most of the encounter-enders still require a damage-dealer to mop up and because single-target big damage is actually an okay choice vs. single bosses. So people get to remember that they did 90 damage in a round to Glarbleflark the Moderately Unhygienic but don't remember as well when the caster Fireballed 10 guys for 300~ damage, or they remember when they got to slaughter a helpless dragon but don't remember as much that it was Hold Monster that made it happen
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2017 05:41
|
|
|
Darwinism posted:I think 5E successfully masks some degree of caster supremacy because most of the encounter-enders still require a damage-dealer to mop up and because single-target big damage is actually an okay choice vs. single bosses. So people get to remember that they did 90 damage in a round to Glarbleflark the Moderately Unhygienic but don't remember as well when the caster Fireballed 10 guys for 300~ damage, or they remember when they got to slaughter a helpless dragon but don't remember as much that it was Hold Monster that made it happen Even when caster supremacy was overwhelmingly obvious thing that you always knew was there unless you were actively blind. People still had trouble seeing it and argued constantly that it wasn't a thing kingcom fucked around with this message at 06:07 on Dec 1, 2017 |
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2017 05:49
|
|
|
To me, as an OSR player, caster supremacy happened when they had a caster that was a better fighter in the cleric, druid, and paladin; and they messed with initiative so spells are nearly impossible to interrupt, and all the best ways to interrupt them became other spells. Concentration-as-a-skill sealed the deal: there was no practical way to stop them. BECMI did not have this problem. D6 initiative meant that a halfling would always go first, and weapon mastery meant they could bolo the wizard around the neck and strangle them to death. Have fun keeping line of sight with a guy throwing tridents too. Nets, blackjacks, etc, there were practical ways for a martial character to inflict save-or-die type effects that kept them relevant.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2017 07:23
|
|
|
I got to play my first game of d&d yesterday and it was really pretty fun. My first ever kill was beating a goblin to death with his dead goblin buddies' corpse so hard both of them exploded.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2017 08:56
|
|
|
I use artwork for every single named NPC in my games (if it's one that popped up on the fly they get one after the session), and I have come to notice a very obnoxious trend: Women are apparently perpetually in their 20s until they hit 80. I had a particularly hard time finding a piece of artwork featuring a woman who looked like she was in her early 50s. It was probably an hour of digging before I found one that was "good enough I guess" and gave up on my search for a one that would satisfy me. Pintrest aside, is there a good resource for an eclectic selection of RPG art? Don't get me wrong, I can dig "cool picture of a dude with swirly magic and a sword", but it's really gotten to a point where I'm pretty sure I've downloaded every half-decent drawing of a peasant that exists, and I constantly need more peasants  .
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2017 09:22
|
|
|
You could see if you find anything useful in the character portrait packs that exist for all the d&d and d&d-like videogames like baldurs gate, neverwinter nights, icewind dale, tyranny, pillars of eternity etc. They come with a bunch of premade portaits and there are tons of usermade packs for them on the net.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2017 09:39
|
|
|
LogicNinja posted:Frankly, The quality of the game mechanics has only the most tenuous relationship with how much fun your average player who isn't an experienced, jaded RPG nerd like me (or, presumably, you people) will have.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2017 10:04
|
|
|
Lori posted:I use artwork for every single named NPC in my games (if it's one that popped up on the fly they get one after the session), and I have come to notice a very obnoxious trend: Women are apparently perpetually in their 20s until they hit 80. I had a particularly hard time finding a piece of artwork featuring a woman who looked like she was in her early 50s. It was probably an hour of digging before I found one that was "good enough I guess" and gave up on my search for a one that would satisfy me. Pintrest aside, is there a good resource for an eclectic selection of RPG art? Don't get me wrong, I can dig "cool picture of a dude with swirly magic and a sword", but it's really gotten to a point where I'm pretty sure I've downloaded every half-decent drawing of a peasant that exists, and I constantly need more peasants The Hot Modrons thread is a good place for stuff like this. Someone just image dumped "friendly necromancer" on request there a week or two ago. The posters there would have more art assets.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2017 10:13
|
|
|
Razorwired posted:The Hot Modrons thread is a good place for stuff like this. Someone just image dumped "friendly necromancer" on request there a week or two ago. The posters there would have more art assets. This was in the OP so I'm very happy you've sent me here. Thank you so much. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2017 10:59
|
|
|
Splicer posted:This does not mesh with my personal experience of new players and is therefore objectively incorrect. Well, it is true if you play with a Good DM.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2017 11:15
|
|
|
Lori posted:This was in the OP so I'm very happy you've sent me here. Thank you so much. Fighter: Don't mind me, just getting my helmet, goddammit dude, this is why we agreed to put a sock on the doorknob or something, you're the worst roommate.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2017 11:56
|
|
|
AlphaDog posted:It's really weird how presenting more options makes people feel more like they can't do anything outside the presented options, but gradenko_2000 posted:The thing about pre-WOTC D&D is not just that Fighters were good in and of themselves, and not just that casters were reigned-in by this or that mechanic, but also that once you wrote Fighter in your character sheet, you were locked in. Sure, the Player's Option books might have added a bunch of "kits", but those were actually the "good" kinds of customization (as far as my argument goes) because you're still in your lane.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2017 13:09
|
|
|
Lori posted:This was in the OP so I'm very happy you've sent me here. Thank you so much. Wizards are freaky 
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2017 13:14
|
|
|
Lori posted:This was in the OP so I'm very happy you've sent me here. Thank you so much.  Speaking of sales figures for 5e: 
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2017 20:29
|
|
|
Sometimes I think about an old school wizard with a handgun and I just about die laughing. Just think and about it. Pointy blue hat, loving glock comes out of the robes, Lol
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2017 20:30
|
|
|
Kaysette posted:
I have no context for what that sales number means. Still dunno comparison to other D&D launches but those numbers would put it at #4 on the Mystery list which seems Real Good. mango sentinel fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Dec 1, 2017 |
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2017 20:35
|
|
|
So when it comes to builds and multiclassing and stuff, is there much thought given to making sure you don't miss ASIs? Like, since most classes get one at 19th level, the [ClassA]1/[ClassB]19 split works, but a 4/16 would also work. Can you get by with just 3 ASIs? Is when you get them more important? Do people even plan poo poo out to 20 levels, or is it a waste of time because campaigns never get that far? Are there builds/classes that just need to max their main stat and then everything else is gravy? The conventional wisdom seems to be that martials need to do that, plus pile on a weapon feat or two, but are secondary stats really in need of maxing ever?
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2017 20:38
|
|
|
Harvey Mantaco posted:Sometimes I think about an old school wizard with a handgun and I just about die laughing. Absolutely  The funniest part in my mind is the moment of silence ended by the wizard cocking his gun.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2017 20:50
|
|
|
On the topic of clerics and paladins that don't always have to be zealot holymen, about a month ago my group started ToA and we all rolled fresh level 1's. I wasn't expecting to live long, so I random-rolled my race/class/background and got "human cleric pirate". I decided to go all-out and be an overly-superstitious sea dog who lives in constant terror of Umberlee. Basically I do lots of stupid little rituals like keep a canteen of sea water under her pillow or toss a tooth down a well that got knocked out by a gladiator to 'give back to the sea witch'. She thinks she is the only thing protecting her party from Umberlee's hateful gaze despite being in the middle of a jungle. My buddy rolled a bugbear paladin who basically gives great massages (Lay on Hands).
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2017 21:07
|
|
|
Harvey Mantaco posted:Sometimes I think about an old school wizard with a handgun and I just about die laughing. *SnarfQuest twitch* Edit: apologies for my coloring ability 30 years ago 
Sax Solo fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Dec 1, 2017 |
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2017 21:09
|
|
|
Wizards was a pretty dope movie, yeah.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2017 21:22
|
|
|
The best part is "Fighter tired of the Wizard's poo poo." is a whole subgenre of fantasy art now. See See?! It's poo poo like this! This is why nobody wants us in town! And on the topic of unconventional characters, I've always wanted to find time to do AL so I could show up with The Wizard. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2017 22:30
|
|
|
Razorwired posted:And on the topic of unconventional characters, I've always wanted to find time to do AL so I could show up with The Wizard. Had a player in a recent game that was exactly that. It was amazing. Though he admitted later that if not for that, he'd have been bored to tears of how Barbarian works mechanically, and envied how my Paladin actually had buttons to press.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2017 22:35
|
|
|
P.d0t posted:So when it comes to builds and multiclassing and stuff, is there much thought given to making sure you don't miss ASIs? Eh it really depends on the class, some are more MAD than others. Paladins and monks need a couple of stats. For martials often a feat is better (sharpshooter, gwm, pm, etc). Single-class casters are the 'max your main stat ASAP' group, all about those save DCs so their spells stick. If the caster wants a feat at all, they are probably going vhuman to start with something like Alert or whatever. Then there's stuff like the new Elven Accuracy builds that plans a 17 dex at level 1 so they can make it 18 and have triplevantage at level 4 - get your stat bumped to as high as it would be with any level 4 build, and a crazy bonus on top.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2017 23:01
|
|
|
Lori posted:I use artwork for every single named NPC in my games (if it's one that popped up on the fly they get one after the session), and I have come to notice a very obnoxious trend: Women are apparently perpetually in their 20s until they hit 80. I had a particularly hard time finding a piece of artwork featuring a woman who looked like she was in her early 50s. It was probably an hour of digging before I found one that was "good enough I guess" and gave up on my search for a one that would satisfy me. Pintrest aside, is there a good resource for an eclectic selection of RPG art? Don't get me wrong, I can dig "cool picture of a dude with swirly magic and a sword", but it's really gotten to a point where I'm pretty sure I've downloaded every half-decent drawing of a peasant that exists, and I constantly need more peasants There are some other weird gaps out there as well. I was writing a new player guide to mostly fighters and I was pulling illustrations from popular movies so they had an immediate reference. Sword and Board is scarce when it comes to movies. There's Greeks, Romans, and that's about it. Considering how iconic the idea is, it just doesn't seem to show up that much in film.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2017 23:03
|
|
|
History's "Vikings" has a lot of examples of shield-and-axe at least, though it does fall into the "you can tell this is an important character because they don't use a shield" sort of thing quite often.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2017 00:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 02:47 |
|
|
The Crotch posted:History's "Vikings" has a lot of examples of shield-and-axe at least, though it does fall into the "you can tell this is an important character because they don't use a shield" sort of thing quite often. If you really want to be a sticker for historical accuracy, iron helmets and mail armor should be a sign of an upper-middle class warrior, or at least one that had gotten very lucky in battle. But History's Vikings hands that stuff out like candy. I'd rather see an RPG set the time of Germanic Jesus. During the 9th century, which is when Vikings is set, someone wrote the poem Heliand . Heliand is supposed to be retelling of the gospel, but it refers to Jesus as a "Chieftain-King", the 12 disciples as "word-wise warriors", Jesus's teachings as "runes", and prayers as "secret spells". Also, Jesus gives gold rings to his followers in Heliand, and everyone drinks mead. The resurrection is referred to as "conquring his wyrd,"
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2017 00:22
|
|
