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My understanding is that the fleet power balancing stuff is to make losses more linear than they are today. Imagine a fight between two fleets of equal power. Both sides, barring hard counters and such, would expect to take similar losses to the other. If both fight to the death, the "winner" would have very little remaining. This is fine and good. Now let's say it's 10k vs 5k. In today's system, the bigger fleet wins every time (as it should). However, it utterly destroys the lesser one, taking very little in the way of losses. Instead of losing about half its strength, it would lose 1-2k (10-20%), barring any hard counters, etc. If it were 100k vs 50k, the percentage of ships lost by the winner would be even smaller. As the raw numbers get bigger, and as the difference in fleet sizes gets larver, the larger fleet takes correspondingly less damage. This snowball effect makes doomstacks literally the only viable option. Under the new system, the fights would be a bit more in line with the power ratio. They're trying to counteract the snowball. The bigger fleet still wins, but would take heavier losses. If the 5k side fights to the last ship, losses on the 10k side would probably be closer to half--as would seemingly be indicated by their comparative strengths. Of course the math is more complicated than that, and the ratios are probably going to be more fluid, and I wouldn't at all be surprised if there was still a threshold where things snowballed...but I think the idea is super sound.
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Nov 30, 2017 22:29
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Wiz, will stations contribute to the outnumbering bonus? If I'm facing an equal fleet plus an n sized station, will I get a bonus equivalent to n?
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Nov 30, 2017 22:39
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that's an interesting point. you could really leverage the outnumbering mechanic when attacking starbases. send an all corvette fleet with weapons good against bases (torpedos?). you're evading any L weapons they have, and you're below their nominal strength, so your effectiveness is highly multiplied...your actual combat power might be higher than theirs even though you're the one getting the bonus.
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Nov 30, 2017 23:14
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Honestly I just like the fantasy of your scrappy outnumbered fleet just charging right into the middle of their deathball and firing away cause everything you see is a target while the massive fleet has to check their crossfire and aim carefully so they don't end up just shooting each other.
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Nov 30, 2017 23:16
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Eej posted:Honestly I just like the fantasy of your scrappy outnumbered fleet just charging right into the middle of their deathball and firing away cause everything you see is a target while the massive fleet has to check their crossfire and aim carefully so they don't end up just shooting each other. Today...is a good day to die!
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Nov 30, 2017 23:17
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Eej posted:Honestly I just like the fantasy of your scrappy outnumbered fleet just charging right into the middle of their deathball and firing away cause everything you see is a target while the massive fleet has to check their crossfire and aim carefully so they don't end up just shooting each other.
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Nov 30, 2017 23:27
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I threw together a poorly labeled graph which should explain the new combat bonus. The x-axis is the size of the smaller fleet over the larger fleet, the y-axis is the ratio of surviving ships from the larger fleet after the fight. Naturally, a 1-1 fight would yield perfect losses, and a 10-1 fight nearly no casualties for the winner. Based on the 2 data points we have, I'm assuming that the outnumbering bonus to fire rate is 1-(smaller_fleet / larger_fleet).  The key takeaways are that a 2-1 engagement changes from 75% of the larger fleet surviving to 62.5%, and extremely close engagements are a lot more damaging to the winner. Blorange fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Nov 30, 2017 |
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Nov 30, 2017 23:27
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Eej posted:Honestly I just like the fantasy of your scrappy outnumbered fleet just charging right into the middle of their deathball and firing away cause everything you see is a target while the massive fleet has to check their crossfire and aim carefully so they don't end up just shooting each other. After hearing all the explanations, I guess I'll change my stance to neutral on disparity bonus. But if there's a small scrappy fleet that flies into my much larger one, they also need to be facing my fully armed and operational death ball. Edit: Also looking at the chart above I really hope that means friendly/enemy ai fleets will be more coordinated because taking significant losses at near even strength may cause issues with their warmongering. OGS-Remix fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Nov 30, 2017 |
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Nov 30, 2017 23:49
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Paired with the new retreat mechanics and the new combat effectiveness penalty with hull damage, though, the smaller fleet won't be destroyed by the engagement - it'll do some damage and then e-FTL away to home space, rather than fighting to the death. That leaves the larger fleet with not only the damage that was inflicted but also the extra maluses caused by that damage, meaning that it'll punch somewhat below its weight if it comes up against another undamaged fleet. As I said, it could very well work fine. But this is a lot of new bonuses and maluses being tacked onto the existing combat system at once - it'll be real tough to get the numbers right the first time and there'll be a lot of potential for bugs and exploits. It sounds to me like defenders will be significantly more powerful, warfare will be slower and more cautious, and warring multiple enemies at once will be much more painful. Crisises will probably need a sizable buff.
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Dec 1, 2017 00:40
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The changes to armor and hull damage make Living Metal even more of a windfall to find.
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Dec 1, 2017 00:53
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wiegieman posted:The changes to armor and hull damage make Living Metal even more of a windfall to find. We just need to make sure that the events that give the tech option actually work properly
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Dec 1, 2017 02:35
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wiegieman posted:The changes to armor and hull damage make Living Metal even more of a windfall to find. And also regenerative playing.
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Dec 1, 2017 02:37
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man these dev diaries have me kinda wanting to play this despite the fact that its bad now
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Dec 1, 2017 03:04
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StashAugustine posted:man these dev diaries have me kinda wanting to play this despite the fact that its bad now It's actually really good. I can't stop playing
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Dec 1, 2017 03:18
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Yeah, it's not bad at all, it just might seem that way since all we've done since the announcement of Cherryh is talk about what mechanics could use improvement.
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Dec 1, 2017 04:18
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Nevets posted:Yeah, it's not bad at all, it just might seem that way since all we've done since the announcement of Cherryh is talk about what mechanics could use improvement. Yeah it's kinda highlighted how territorial acquisition is a bit blah, AI always dropping frontier outposts on my border to steal some dope resources is kill
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Dec 1, 2017 05:41
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I'm a dumb noob about this game and can't tell what's going on in these dev diaries, but they sound kinda cool. When is this big update happening? How will it effect current games? Will I need to start another game? I'd really like to come back to the game and actually finish my first playthrough soon.
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Dec 1, 2017 05:46
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Ass_Burgerer posted:I'm a dumb noob about this game and can't tell what's going on in these dev diaries, but they sound kinda cool. I have a feeling it ain't gonna come out this year.
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Dec 1, 2017 05:58
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StashAugustine posted:man these dev diaries have me kinda wanting to play this despite the fact that its bad now This is actually the best time to play, because it is before they ruin the game forever and you need to cancel your preorders.
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Dec 1, 2017 06:13
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Have they figured out how to make the game fun yet and/or make the text legible on a laptop screen?
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Dec 1, 2017 06:16
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All I want from this update is an event where you have to destroy a planet to make way for a new hyperlane.
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Dec 1, 2017 07:02
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The text is perfectly readable on a laptop. I play on one. It is impossible for Materialist empires to unlock psionics and psionic techs right? Edit: with the exception of a few very rare anomalies and such? Artificer fucked around with this message at 09:24 on Dec 1, 2017 |
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Dec 1, 2017 09:05
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I'd like an event where you destroy all of the hyperlanes in the galaxy, kicking off a desperate race to develop an FTL type that doesn't suck.
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Dec 1, 2017 09:06
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I can't find the button to release a vassal anywhere. Is there any way to get rid of a single planet in a exclave that I won't be able to reach once the truce runs out and they close their borders? I don't want it
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Dec 1, 2017 09:36
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gowb posted:I can't find the button to release a vassal anywhere. Is there any way to get rid of a single planet in a exclave that I won't be able to reach once the truce runs out and they close their borders? I don't want it Trade it away.
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Dec 1, 2017 09:43
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Artificer posted:Trade it away. Oh yeah thanks, I forgot that you can trade planets.
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Dec 1, 2017 09:45
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Actually I'll append that, I also want a start option to choose between hyperlanes and no FTL so people who hate hyperlanes can still have an option without ruining the game balance for everyone else.
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Dec 1, 2017 09:56
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Artificer posted:The text is perfectly readable on a laptop. I play on one. Practically impossible, yes. If and only if you get a leader with Psionics expertise, you can then unlock psionic techs. Getting such a leader is highly improbable, but not impossible. You can't rely on it, but it can happen. If it does, it is now possible for a materialist empire to pick the psionics ascension perks, if you haven't already picked the other. However, doing so also massively increases spiritualist attraction. As an aside, I've once managed to get cyborgs who were latent psionics. I myself was playing as a materialist, who the conquered some Evangelizing Zealots who had picked the first psionic ascendancy shortly before our war. I then proceeded to impose cybernetics on the newly conquered pops. But that was also only the second game, in ~950 hours, that I can recall the AI picking any of the three paths edit: gowb posted:I can't find the button to release a vassal anywhere. Is there any way to get rid of a single planet in a exclave that I won't be able to reach once the truce runs out and they close their borders? I don't want it It's been moved to the planet screen specifically, the first of the four IIRC. Caustic Soda fucked around with this message at 10:08 on Dec 1, 2017 |
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Dec 1, 2017 10:06
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I wonder if hit&run battleships with long range weapons will be useful in the next patch. Just a few of them so they get a solid fire rate boost to blast away some enemy ships in the opening artillery fire and using their health and armor to survive long enough to trigger the retreat. Causing damage without taking losses. I kinda doubt it, and it's all armchair theorycrafting anyway but you never know. 
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Dec 1, 2017 10:18
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Poil posted:I wonder if hit&run battleships with long range weapons will be useful in the next patch. Just a few of them so they get a solid fire rate boost to blast away some enemy ships in the opening artillery fire and using their health and armor to survive long enough to trigger the retreat. Causing damage without taking losses. I kinda doubt it, and it's all armchair theorycrafting anyway but you never know. get a high level Trickster? I feel like the very first Admiral you hire will have a noticable influence on Doctrine and Fleet composition, meaning you will hire even more Admirals that complement those
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Dec 1, 2017 10:36
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Yeah you can't even research psi-drives via wreckage if you are a materialist empire unless you got lucky with the aforementioned Expertise: Psionics....somehow.
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Dec 1, 2017 10:57
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So this might be the full roundup of humanoids: https://twitter.com/StellarisGame/status/936569537360785411
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Dec 1, 2017 13:36
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Squats
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Dec 1, 2017 13:41
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I like the cyclops.
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Dec 1, 2017 13:44
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GunnerJ posted:I like the cyclops.
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Dec 1, 2017 13:53
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While the immersion of the civilians mod is great, quadrupling the number of ships in the game is not... Next time I think I'll turn it off. Right now I'll continue my current game until I get a crisis. I'll save the galaxy and prove to all of these silly organics that they should just let me run things. Everyone will be happier.
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Dec 1, 2017 15:30
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Tiny civilian ships as sprites could be a nice little graphical touch without overloading the endgame.
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Dec 1, 2017 15:53
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Nickiepoo posted:Tiny civilian ships as sprites could be a nice little graphical touch without overloading the endgame. I would be fine with little lights flying between planets.
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Dec 1, 2017 16:40
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GunnerJ posted:So this might be the full roundup of humanoids: Pfft... back to the drawing board guys. None of these aliens are remotely sexy enough. Not spending my hard earned cash on cosmetic DLC unless I get to see some triple-boobied cleavage.
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Dec 1, 2017 16:47
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Awesome! Now we've got Gnomes, Dwarves, Tieflings, and Orcs to go along with our Space Elves, Space Dragonborn and Space Humans. My dream of D&D-in-Space is ever closer to fruition.
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Dec 1, 2017 17:07
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