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Scruffpuff posted:Quoting this because I don't want this point to get missed. CIG isn't accruing technical debt, or engaging in a Ponzi, or any of the other poo poo, because they have a backer base who have proven time and again that CIG doesn't have to give them anything. Ok I'm gonna step in here and risk some pedantry. What they're accumulating is not tech debt. It could be more aptly called "backlog debt," which is where your story/epic (feature) backlog just keeps growing. You could call it feature creep as well. Tech debt is when you implement something in a lovely, unmaintainable way either to meet a deadline, or because you didn't know any better, or both. Tech debt requires refactoring/re-writing parts of code that are already "done." Land claims, just like new ships, is backlog debt. In the case of land, this is brand new code/functionality/assets. CIG has plenty of tech debt too, in almost eveything they've made thus far, as evidenced by their glacially slow feature velocity. Their "pipelines" are getting clogged, not streamlined. Toops fucked around with this message at 22:08 on Dec 1, 2017 |
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Dec 1, 2017 22:04
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Toops posted:Can we all agree that Lladre is the worst poster in this thread? And they are very, very bad.
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Dec 1, 2017 22:07
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Scruffpuff posted:If the people funding this don't care if anything is ever delivered, then there is no technical debt. They still have to maintain the illusion that the promised features are deliverable, at least in theory. If they promise 10 ships they have to actually make 1. If they promise a galaxy they have to at least deliver a planet. If they promise 100 missions they have to at least make a working box quest. The backers don't want to play, but the dream still needs to be propped up by something. The bar is low but it's there. 3.0 was enough. Soon CiG won't even be able to deliver that much.
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Dec 1, 2017 22:08
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tuo posted:they promised me I'd make millions at the grey market Just hit up Clifford aka Miku.
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Dec 1, 2017 22:11
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Spiderdrake posted:I think Mirificus is, since he makes no posts of his own and thereby must be judged by the posters that inhabit his posts. He pulled out the Barky Barktona fanfic so he's on my nice list right now. Lladre though, Lladre I just can't figure out.
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Dec 1, 2017 22:14
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Lladre, what's your deal?
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Dec 1, 2017 22:15
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Toops posted:Just hit up Clifford aka Miku. Shut up and take my money!
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Dec 1, 2017 22:15
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Toops posted:He pulled out the Barky Barktona fanfic so he's on my nice list right now. Lladre though, Lladre I just can't figure out. In that respect, Mirificus is a better archivist than all of r/ds combined. As a bot, I think he cares not of our opinion of his posting.
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Dec 1, 2017 22:17
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGOKUby5ZQM
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Dec 1, 2017 22:19
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Toops posted:He pulled out the Barky Barktona fanfic so he's on my nice list right now. Lladre though, Lladre I just can't figure out. he did it almost immediately too. mirificus is a formidable librarian
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Dec 1, 2017 22:20
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alf_pogs posted:he did it almost immediately too. mirificus is a formidable librarian He holds a perfectly indexed encyclopedia of the star citizen poop.
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Dec 1, 2017 22:24
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Dec 1, 2017 22:31
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I would also like to remind everyone of this scathing Kotaku coverage of CIG's land sale gaffe, which openly mocks Chris Roberts and CIG http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2017/11/29/star-citizen-will-now-sell-you-virtual-land-that-you-cant-have quote:Ahahahaha! Sorry, let me try that again. Yes that's right stargazers, the good folks at Cloud Imperium Games never stop in their quest to bring you the galaxy's greatest space gahahahahaha!
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Dec 1, 2017 22:32
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If you value vomit over that of some nice tequila, I am fine with it. I don't care either way.
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Dec 1, 2017 22:33
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Toops posted:Ok I'm gonna step in here and risk some pedantry. What they're accumulating is not tech debt. It could be more aptly called "backlog debt," which is where your story/epic (feature) backlog just keeps growing. You could call it feature creep as well. Pandantic arguments are the best arguments IMO. What I'm suggesting is this: this project has absolutely no accountability, and the backers, who actually hold every card here, aren't supplying it, and won't supply it. In that case, as many backers have explicitly stated, CIG literally doesn't have to deliver anything. I did see the post from Pantsbird that the backers need something to prop up the dream, but I submit that they do not. They've proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that they expect nothing, and on the rare occasions they do get the sub-poo poo-tier work that CIG scoops on their plates, they're thrilled beyond belief. So whether it's tech debt or backlog debt, they're not going to do it, it's not going to be developed or released, the vast majority (if not all) of their promises will go unfulfilled, and there's nothing anyone can do about it. It's devolved into a private cult that worships a non-existent game. CIG can literally do (or not do) anything they want.
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Dec 1, 2017 22:35
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tuo posted:they promised me I'd make millions at the grey market Thats what happens when you paint them
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Dec 1, 2017 22:43
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Dec 1, 2017 22:45
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MilesK posted:pictures Are those serious or ironic, I am never certain.
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Dec 1, 2017 22:46
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Scruffpuff posted:It's devolved into a private cult that worships a non-existent game. CIG can literally do (or not do) anything they want. But I agree that technical debt and backlog debt belie a fundamental confidence in the underlying psyche of the cultist whales I don't see the justification for. These people are not rational actors. They're pining for some nebulous dream but they are also satisfied with the idea of "current version plus two" will have core features like actual gameplay. They're excited over a box they might be able to do something with at the current rate of progression eighteen months from now. It's going to be a slow, slow bleed.
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Dec 1, 2017 22:48
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https://twitter.com/RobertsSpaceInd/status/936715305606373378
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Dec 1, 2017 22:56
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You know I usually really like Obsidian Ant's elite dangerous stuff, but I really have to take issue with these glowing reviews. Every single "It's beautiful" or "It's a great feel" should be prefaced with: IF YOU HAVE 32 GIGS OF RAM, AN I7, AND ACCESS TO A BRAND NEW SERVER. Like, the only time this game is even halfway smooth is if you have a $3,000 god machine and the server is at its best. At all other times it looks like Michael J Fox is holding your monitor for you.
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Dec 1, 2017 22:58
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whichever is the biggest one will win
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Dec 1, 2017 22:58
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big nipples big life posted:whichever is the biggest one will win I mean right there you have it: Dream big of ships that have been promised for years and none of them are even vaguely in game. Have they even spawned a capital ship for people to walk around in or use as an fps level? heh
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Dec 1, 2017 23:00
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Toops posted:Ok I'm gonna step in here and risk some pedantry. What they're accumulating is not tech debt. It could be more aptly called "backlog debt," which is where your story/epic (feature) backlog just keeps growing. You could call it feature creep as well. Yeah, I think we've been using "Engineering debt" for anything that involves them sitting down and actually start working on features like mining/salvaging/refining/manufacturing/pleasurecrusing/sciencing/newsvanning. The thing is, as that debt goes down, because they start working it, then technical debt naturally goes up as well because their foundation is absolute runny poo poo an things will break in new and exiting ways.
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Dec 1, 2017 23:03
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Spiderdrake posted:Already has a big lead, yeah. No. They once said they were going to do exactly that with the Idris- make it static and explorably from the hangar, but that was years ago and the closest anyone's ever come is that "Morrow Tour" video that was also years ago and subsequently dropped. The biggest in-game are the pirate Caterpillar which is currently on the PTU and is so plagued with door and hatch problems that nobody uses it, and the gas hauling Starfarer which you can spawn on the PTU but only if you actually own one, and it doesn't actually haul gas because there are no mechanics (so nobody uses it).
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Dec 1, 2017 23:04
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https://twitter.com/listening2day/status/936694497672495104
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Dec 1, 2017 23:06
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I had to be awake really loving early today, so very tired eyes. Took me 3 or 4 attempts and leaning into my screen to see that CR's text does not actually say "GAPE COMMANDER". 
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Dec 1, 2017 23:07
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start probating people for not doing a cat tax. We have repeat offenders that love to post a million times a day and just ignore our most sacred of rites.
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Dec 1, 2017 23:08
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That said, the biggest ships in-game are pretty large with multiple levels and really confusing layouts. CIG probably could put an actual capship in game, but it would literally just be a steerable level, because: Engineering doesn't work Turrets don't work Flight decks don't work and the engine breaks if you dock one ship to another Doors don't work Power management doesn't work Basically nothing works except spawning your ship and simple movement My theory as to why we've never seen any- I think CIG has a development event horizon and the capships can't escape it. Basically every 12 months or so, Chris orders another complete overhaul of ship designs. The small ships can be done fast enough to eventually see some release inside a 12 month window, but the big ships basically get 80% of the way finished and then the poor fuckers have to start them all over again.
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Dec 1, 2017 23:08
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VictorianQueerLit posted:start probating people for not doing a cat tax. We have repeat offenders that love to post a million times a day and just ignore our most sacred of rites. The cat thing is dumb as hell.
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Dec 1, 2017 23:10
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My God. It's magnificent.
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Dec 1, 2017 23:12
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If you want to post cat pictures, post cat pictures don't use the top of a page as an excuse.
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Dec 1, 2017 23:12
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VictorianQueerLit posted:start probating people for not doing a cat tax. We have repeat offenders that love to post a million times a day and just ignore our most sacred of rites. AP posted:If you want to post cat pictures, post cat pictures don't use the top of a page as an excuse.
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Dec 1, 2017 23:14
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nothing makes sense any more
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Dec 1, 2017 23:16
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Welcome to the
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You post the cat tax hey that's great, if you don't, well hey that's great too, no need to feel bad people we are all gamer pals here
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Dec 1, 2017 23:16
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https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/936700619385122818
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Dec 1, 2017 23:17
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Dec 1, 2017 23:18
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Dude this poo poo isn't ending any time soon. The boy who called it indeed.Sarsapariller posted:My theory as to why we've never seen any- I think CIG has a development event horizon and the capships can't escape it. Basically every 12 months or so, Chris orders another complete overhaul of ship designs. The small ships can be done fast enough to eventually see some release inside a 12 month window, but the big ships basically get 80% of the way finished and then the poor fuckers have to start them all over again.
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Dec 1, 2017 23:18
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peter gabriel posted:You post the cat tax hey that's great, if you don't, well hey that's great too, no need to feel bad people we are all gamer pals here Your cat tax is pre-paid by your av, though.
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Dec 1, 2017 23:21
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VictorianQueerLit posted:start probating people for not doing a cat tax. We have repeat offenders that love to post a million times a day and just ignore our most sacred of rites.
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Dec 1, 2017 23:22
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