17-18 F1 Off-Season: <INSERT TEAM HERE> is bad, OP. Especially

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > 17-18 F1 Off-Season: <INSERT TEAM HERE> is bad, OP. Especially

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Wirth1000: May 12, 2010; #essereFerrari

1500quidporsche posted:

He drove for Prema. Let's wait and see how he actually does.

W... what..... Lan... Lance Stroll drove for Pr... Prema and you fuicker you absol;ute fuckerwsaerf

# ? Dec 2, 2017 18:09

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# ? May 28, 2024 11:52

Wirth1000: May 12, 2010; #essereFerrari

Lando Norris is going to tear F2 a new rear end in a top hat.

# ? Dec 2, 2017 18:09

F1DriverQuidenBerg: Jan 19, 2014

Wirth1000 posted:

W... what..... Lan... Lance Stroll drove for Pr... Prema and you fuicker you absol;ute fuckerwsaerf

Ya and then he got to F1 and we saw how good he was. Meanwhile Gio impressed in GP2 at Prema and then just kept crashing out in that Sauber.

# ? Dec 2, 2017 18:11

F1DriverQuidenBerg: Jan 19, 2014

Wirth1000 posted:

Lando Norris is going to tear F2 a new rear end in a top hat.

McLaren has a very lovely young drivers program and I'm not expecting much.

# ? Dec 2, 2017 18:11

wicka: Jun 28, 2007

Human Grand Prix posted:

Regardless of what you think of Van Der Garde (I think he�s bad) and, uh, whoever else she signed it was absolutely not a respectable move.

Formula One, The Respectful Sport

# ? Dec 2, 2017 18:16

wicka: Jun 28, 2007

I've always loved F1 because of how no one ever does anything unethical. Everyone is so kind and fair. That's one of the hallmarks of the sport, IMO.

# ? Dec 2, 2017 18:19

iospace: Jan 19, 2038

wicka posted:

I've always loved F1 because of how no one ever does anything unethical. Everyone is so kind and fair. That's one of the hallmarks of the sport, IMO.

And it allows the people who oppose that team to endlessly clutch their pearls about the other team.

See also: Mercedes and the oil burn.

# ? Dec 2, 2017 18:20

Norns: Nov 21, 2011; Senior Shitposting Strategist

gently caress Mercedes

# ? Dec 2, 2017 18:21

wicka: Jun 28, 2007

Renault just hired an FIA employee who knows intricate details about every team's designs and we've already forgotten

# ? Dec 2, 2017 18:22

Tsaedje: May 11, 2007; BRAWNY BUTTONS 4 LYFE

Gonna be a fun battle for third in the WCC between Red Bull, McLaren, Renault and [Force India new name] I reckon

# ? Dec 2, 2017 18:31

Wirth1000: May 12, 2010; #essereFerrari

wicka posted:

Renault just hired an FIA employee who knows intricate details about every team's designs and we've already forgotten

That was resolved and he was additionally delayed from starting at Renault so instead of 3 months it was agreed he'd start 6 months later instead.

The FIA were pissed about it as well but Swiss law prevented them from really doing anything since a maximum of 3 months gardening leave was permitted so the 6 months thing was just a compromise agreed by all apparently.

# ? Dec 2, 2017 18:32

Norns: Nov 21, 2011; Senior Shitposting Strategist

wicka posted:

Renault just hired an FIA employee who knows intricate details about every team's designs and we've already forgotten

I'm okay with another team cheating for a while. Especially when Fernando Alonso is getting those engines

# ? Dec 2, 2017 18:33

wicka: Jun 28, 2007

Tsaedje posted:

Gonna be a fun battle for third in the WCC between Red Bull, McLaren, Renault and [Force India new name] I reckon

So many good storylines between those four teams. It's going to be funny when Renault and McLaren have bulletproof engines and the Red Bull blows up all the time.

# ? Dec 2, 2017 18:44

OhsH: Jan 12, 2008

isnt gp2 a spec series

# ? Dec 2, 2017 18:59

Tsaedje: May 11, 2007; BRAWNY BUTTONS 4 LYFE

OhsH posted:

isnt gp2 a spec series

Yeah but if you have more money you can afford more/better engineers/team members to set the car up optimally, diagnose and fix faults quicker, repair damage...

# ? Dec 2, 2017 19:05

OhsH: Jan 12, 2008

my point is this:

hes going from the mercedes of gp2 to, uh what ever team i didnt really read anything

i want him to suffer the wrath of being bad

# ? Dec 2, 2017 19:06

Wirth1000: May 12, 2010; #essereFerrari

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6NlajWJ8pA

Stay for the retarded track design red flag, Sam Bird at 2m06s or so in crashing into the literal pit garage while trying to do the stupid car swap....

# ? Dec 2, 2017 22:18

track day bro!: Feb 17, 2005; #essereFerrari; Grimey Drawer

I'm not going to click a video that contains formula e footage. #forzaferrari

# ? Dec 2, 2017 22:24

Wirth1000: May 12, 2010; #essereFerrari

track day bro! posted:

I'm not going to click a video that contains formula e footage. #forzaferrari

Very wise.

# ? Dec 2, 2017 22:27

wicka: Jun 28, 2007

Apparently Kubica's performance in Abu Dhabi was some ways short of decisive: http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/42199674

The Martini sponsorship is not worth it. They aren't paying very much for a title sponsor, and the "one driver must be 25 years old" rule is an idiotic handicap no one else has to consider.

# ? Dec 2, 2017 22:31

Wirth1000: May 12, 2010; #essereFerrari

wicka posted:

Apparently Kubica's performance in Abu Dhabi was some ways short of decisive: http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/42199674

The Martini sponsorship is not worth it. They aren't paying very much for a title sponsor, and the "one driver must be 25 years old" rule is an idiotic handicap no one else has to consider.

This Andrew Benson article reads like complete poo poo and flies in the face of the other better written and better sourced article off Motorsport.com that I quoted a few days ago.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/what-williams-learned-from-kubica-s-test-984601/

# ? Dec 2, 2017 22:37

wicka: Jun 28, 2007

Wirth1000 posted:

This Andrew Benson article reads like complete poo poo and flies in the face of the other better written and better sourced article off Motorsport.com that I quoted a few days ago.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/what-williams-learned-from-kubica-s-test-984601/

lol what

# ? Dec 2, 2017 22:43

wicka: Jun 28, 2007

FYI Wirth: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_pyramid_(journalism)

# ? Dec 2, 2017 22:45

NtotheTC: Dec 31, 2007

I am glad to be alongside my avatar-sake Andrew Benson in doubting the Kube can make a return to F1. I fully expect to remain un-toxxed when Williams make their decision to appoint Di-Resta to the seat.

# ? Dec 2, 2017 22:48

Wirth1000: May 12, 2010; #essereFerrari

wicka posted:

FYI Wirth: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_pyramid_(journalism)

Hmm, I'm going to incorporate this into my posting.

# ? Dec 2, 2017 22:49

wicka: Jun 28, 2007

Seriously, Benson's article is orders of magnitude better than that Motorsport.com nightmare by any objective metric of good journalism.

# ? Dec 2, 2017 22:52

Wirth1000: May 12, 2010; #essereFerrari

I'm gonna go for a walk, bye.

# ? Dec 2, 2017 22:57

F1DriverQuidenBerg: Jan 19, 2014

wicka posted:

Seriously, Benson's article is orders of magnitude better than that Motorsport.com nightmare by any objective metric of good journalism.

Now I really am convinced that you're just the world's worst contrarian.

# ? Dec 2, 2017 22:58

wicka: Jun 28, 2007

1500quidporsche posted:

Now I really am convinced that you're just the world's worst contrarian.

Anyone who disagrees on this is either genuinely handicapped or still roleplaying lazy memes. There's literally no question that his article is better.

# ? Dec 2, 2017 23:27

Feels Villeneuve: Oct 7, 2007; Setter is Better.

I can't read the Motorsport article but I'm going to assume that a Motorsport.com article is probably not better sourced and written than a BBC Sport article.

# ? Dec 2, 2017 23:30

wicka: Jun 28, 2007

Feels Villeneuve posted:

I can't read the Motorsport article but I'm going to assume that a Motorsport.com article is probably not better sourced and written than a BBC Sport article.

It's exactly what you'd expect to see when one outlet is publicly funded and the other wants to keep you scrolling and get more ad impressions.

# ? Dec 2, 2017 23:32

Wirth1000: May 12, 2010; #essereFerrari

Feels Villeneuve posted:

I can't read the Motorsport article but I'm going to assume that a Motorsport.com article is probably not better sourced and written than a BBC Sport article.

quote:

Even he thought a return was "nearly impossible". But he has kept that dream alive, and now, after testing F1 machinery this year, a return to the grid with Williams is within his grasp.

You will be hard pressed to find someone who does not want to see Kubica back on the grid. It's a story for the romantics. But Williams is not allowing itself to get whisked away.

It is insisting performance is what counts. And it was not prepared to rely on testimony from Renault, which gave the Pole a series of runs as part of its own evaluations earlier this year.

That's why Williams chose to run Kubica in a 2014 car, at two very different circuits - Silverstone and the Hungaroring, before trying him out in 2017 machinery at the Pirelli test after the season finale. And Williams is in no rush, and under no pressure, to decide quickly.

The team is risk averse. It wants to be thorough, but it knows there are certain things it will not be able to find out until Kubica contests a grand prix weekend, such as how he will cope in a racing situation. But there are several things it can find out.

First on its checklist in Abu Dhabi was to eliminate any doubt about his fitness. It was evident after Kubica ran in the 2017 Renault in Hungary that doing a full day took its toll on him. That is understandable considering the latest generation of F1 cars are far more physically demanding to drive.

His return to contemporary F1 machinery was a full day, under immense pressure, and he completed 142 laps on a demanding track.

In the two 2014 Williams tests, it became clear that his fitness had improved, as he was gradually ramping up a demanding training regime. But to be certain, Williams wanted to run him in a 2017 car.

He completed 100 laps over the course of six hours at Yas Marina on the first day and the team was very pleased - leading Williams chief technical officer Paddy Lowe to say there are no concerns that Kubica's injuries will affect his ability to race in Formula 1.

Kubica said on Tuesday that he felt physically stronger than in 2010. It's one thing to say it, quite another to be able to demonstrate it - but it was noticeable in his demeanour afterwards that his fitness had improved dramatically. He wasn't as visibly tired as he was at the Hungaroring. That's one very important item ticked off.

The series of tests have also proved that very little adaptation to the car is necessary. On the steering wheel, only minor changes have been made. And even then, all drivers have a slightly different set-up on the wheel.

All the cars have the option to enable push or pull shift and Kubica prefers that method with one hand rather than changing gear using both hands. The team also ran a modified headrest, which features an indent on the right-hand side (pictured below) to give him a fraction more space to rotate his arm.

Another thing on the checklist was consistency. There have been claims Kubica has been unable to deliver a series of consecutive laptimes in the same ballpark. But each test has been for a different purpose, in different conditions, with different machinery. It is not as if he has embarked on a bespoke testing programme in current machinery, aimed at building him up and allowing him to make the adjustments himself.

When he ran in the 2012 Lotus, it was a specification of car he was roughly familiar with, but well out of date. The 2017 Renault was at the other end of the spectrum, and while the focus was to evaluate his capability to return, he also had a job to do for Renault, working through the team's regular test programme.

The tests in the 2014 Williams were with a new team, in an old car, and way off the physicality of 2017. When he drove the 2017 Williams, he was unable to make any changes to the car, because it had to remain in the state it was raced last weekend to adhere to the strict rules for tyre testing. The programme, too, was dictated by Pirelli.

However, taking the penultimate 14-lap run on Tuesday, he completed three laps straight out of the box that were near identical 1m44.0s. He followed that up with seven laps that were between 1m44.1s and 1m44.4s. He completed the stint with two laps in the 1m44.7s.

Williams has plenty of data to analyse and will do so over the coming weeks, so a decision is not expected imminently. It can compare Kubica's data with that of Lance Stroll and Sergey Sirotkin from the test, but it is complex as they were all running different programmes.

There are also comparisons to be made with other cars on track during the test and the running over the course of the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix weekend, but again, the same caveats apply.

Williams will have also wanted to get an idea of Kubica's performance and the early signs are that it is inconclusive. "It's a really complicated topic, performance and speed, so to read a timesheet is quite misleading," said Lowe.

On Wednesday, he focused on shorter runs and tried the ultra-soft and hyper-soft tyre compounds. He did five runs of four timed laps, with a quick lap followed by a cool down lap. He then ended the day with a one-timed-lap run on the hypersoft, which was his quickest of the test, 1.934s off the pace.

However, it is believed he was still not pushing for the ultimate laptime, but working to a specific programme, so it's difficult to get a read on his ultimate pace.

While Lowe repeatedly said the test was focused on gathering tyre data, it did represent an opportunity to see Kubica's potential and progress. The team was impressed by how quickly he got up to speed.

"Robert is not super-human," said Lowe. "He doesn't know the car, he doesn't know the tyres. He doesn't even know the circuit very well. So it took a bit of time. As we know from the race weekend, the tyres are very difficult to bring in to temperature.

"Especially the harder ones you're starting the programme with, as naturally you'd do. So it's actually quite a difficult process to really hit it on the out lap and being ready for Turn 1. But he did a good job considering those challenges."

Tyres were another focus. Even the current drivers, who have raced the new generation of tyres all season, are struggling to get them into the right window.

Kubica has never raced on F1 Pirellis and had minimal running on them in restrictive testing conditions, so he was keen to get more time evaluating the different compounds.

It is understood he felt a breakthrough was made at Yas Marina with his understanding of them, and while he needs more running on them, he has the confidence that he can get on top of it with time.

His confidence, not just with the tyres but in general, is a factor in Williams's decision, too. Kubica says he wouldn't come back and sign a deal if he didn't feel he could deliver when it counts.

On several occasions over the last few years, he admitted a return to F1 was unlikely, close to impossible even. But he has been a man transformed in the last 12 months.

He has embarked on a demanding physical programme in a brutally determined manner, and it's paid off to the extent where he now not only feels that he is capable of returning but that he can do it at a high level.

His competitive nature is such that he wouldn't be interested in coming back if he didn't believe he had the capability any more to win. Williams also needed to know Kubica believed he could do it. After all, talks started with an element of doubt in the minds on both sides. The 2014 tests moved to eradicate some of that and the 2017 test helped, too.

Kubica is wary of the threat posed by Sirotkin. The Russian brings a strong financial package and showed good pace in the Abu Dhabi test. But the way he answered a question on this topic spoke volumes about the confidence his performances in the 2017 car have given him.

"Sergey is a very good driver and he has done a very good job," he said. "He's very talented and he's probably one of the drivers who deserves a chance. But I'm looking more at my feelings and somehow my experience gives me a comfort zone that if things are going well there shouldn't be bad surprises.

"I'm having a bit different priorities and it will take a bit of time but I'm more looking for myself than looking for references and I think if I get the chance, the chance to be fast is Australia, not here."

The Abu Dhabi test gave the mechanics a chance to work with Kubica properly. Valtteri Bottas's departure was a tough one to take because he was usually at the limit of the car's capabilities. So they knew that whatever the result, that was the level of performance they had delivered from endless days of hard work.

The team is craving that again as it would boost morale. Recruiting Kubica, providing the team believed he had the potential, would do that job.

It is understood the mechanics and engineers warmed to him instantly. They were impressed by the way he gelled quickly with the team around him and built up a good rapport. It felt like he had long been part of the team. They also loved his attitude.

On Monday before the test, he spent hours with the team preparing for his running, focusing on the minute details before his track walk. On Tuesday, he was in bright and early and even after he had finished running, he didn't want any downtime.

Instead he wanted to get into the garage and keep an eye on how Stroll was getting on. Then on Wednesday, he focused on what Sirotkin was up to, before getting in the car and diligently working through his own programme at the end of the day. The quality of his feedback had been one of the standout factors throughout the 2014 tests and he confirmed that again when driving the 2017 car.

The Kubica test went well. He proved his fitness, slotted in well with the team, delivered brilliant feedback and did everything that was asked of him during the programme. However, while Williams believes there is more to come from Kubica, questions remain over whether he can achieve that potential and if so, how long it will take to achieve that.

Ahead of the race weekend, there was a feeling Kubica was the man for them and after his running on Tuesday, that was only enhanced. But Sirotkin had a strong day when he stepped in.

Admittedly, he is more used to the 2017 cars after his FP1 running for Renault, but nonetheless in a new team, his ability to get on the pace quickly got people thinking. Kubica's few hours of running on the second day was solid, but not spectacular.

Right now, it looks like Kubica has the edge, but Sirotkin is very much in the game for the race seat - and at the very least a reserve role with an eye on the future. To complicate the situation, it has emerged Daniil Kvyat, despite not testing for the team in Abu Dhabi, has become a very strong contender for the race seat.

Williams reserve driver Paul di Resta is still an option, but the Scot has drifted to fourth in the pecking order, with Pascal Wehrlein now considered to be a long shot, and expected to return to the DTM with Mercedes.

Williams now has some thinking to do. The plan is to go back to the factory and crunch the data. It is hoped a decision can be reached before Christmas but there is scope to delay until the new year.

# ? Dec 2, 2017 23:40

gret: Dec 12, 2005; goggle-eyed freak

wicka posted:

Apparently Kubica's performance in Abu Dhabi was some ways short of decisive: http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/42199674

The Martini sponsorship is not worth it. They aren't paying very much for a title sponsor, and the "one driver must be 25 years old" rule is an idiotic handicap no one else has to consider.

If anything Stroll's the impediment to Williams not being trash. He's taking up the seat that should be going to a talented youngster. Even without Martini's requirements, daddy Stroll would probably veto any talented youngster from taking the other seat and outshining his son.

# ? Dec 2, 2017 23:41

poty: Jun 21, 2008; 虹はどこで終わるのですか？あなたの魂の中で、または地平線で?

NtotheTC posted:

I am glad to be alongside my avatar-sake Andrew Benson in doubting the Kube can make a return to F1. I fully expect to remain un-toxxed when Williams make their decision to appoint Di-Resta to the seat.

Benson is a huge Nico Rosberg fan and therefore has a conflict of interest regarding Kubica. This article stinks of mindgames

# ? Dec 2, 2017 23:42

wicka: Jun 28, 2007

Lmao both articles arrive at identical conclusions

# ? Dec 3, 2017 00:28

F1DriverQuidenBerg: Jan 19, 2014

wicka posted:

Anyone who disagrees on this is either genuinely handicapped or still roleplaying lazy memes. There's literally no question that his article is better.

Spare my your usual hysterics Wicka. Benson is a loving hack. There's a reason why Williams upfront said "Don't read anything into the times coming out because we're testing 2018 tires that are completely different and untested and we haven't adapted the cars." and then Benson did exactly that.

# ? Dec 3, 2017 00:29

djssniper: Jan 10, 2003

Ferrari: Race to immortality, watching it now, good film, watch it you geeks instead of squabbling about drivers

# ? Dec 3, 2017 00:32

You Am I: May 20, 2001; Me @ your poasting

iospace posted:

Who?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZelPcA2Dz2c

surely I am not the only one who thinks this when LeClerc is mentioned

# ? Dec 3, 2017 00:41

Wirth1000: May 12, 2010; #essereFerrari

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jU_G4fEpaCQ

Heh, I hadn't heard a lot of this radio chatter.

# ? Dec 3, 2017 01:07

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# ? May 28, 2024 11:52

Tsaedje: May 11, 2007; BRAWNY BUTTONS 4 LYFE

You Am I posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZelPcA2Dz2c

surely I am not the only one who thinks this when LeClerc is mentioned

You're not, but nobody bit when I was making the reference when he first started turning up as a third driver

# ? Dec 3, 2017 01:46

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > 17-18 F1 Off-Season: <INSERT TEAM HERE> is bad, OP. Especially

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