|
  One of our recon birds reports in.  Not only has she found the Lexington II, she got a hit in! That could stop her from launching her own strikes – if its an accurate report! We also get reports of CAP and search planes shooting each other down.  This lot don't get the message they should be engaged in a pivotal carrier on carrier engagement!  Thankfully, these guys do!  Three fleet carriers. THREE! All of them have eaten a torpedo – We've taken heavy losses, but this is a bloody midway style engagement – now we have to take their return strike.  The other carrier group puts in its planes, but cannot get a hit in. we have the numbers though! This engagement is going as well as could be expected at this point. These are all Essex class ships, and they are dangerous – the KB's can take them, but the return hits will determine how the war continues.  They go for the Kiddo Butai and leave her burning. Out of the two, this hurts the least, but they didn't have the CAP to hold off that many planes – the Kido Butai would have fared better.  God drat it, these guys flew right past the CAP and popped a torp into one of my big ships.  Attack. The. MOTHER loving CARRIERS!   This is a suicide run.   In one of those news items destined to be overwhelmed by other events, we take Sian.   These are the days we live for – look at those air losses. We lost big in the air and on the ships, but they have lost a lot of planes into the drink.  I have to report the loss of three carriers. Two escorts and a fleet. We knew this day was coming, and they gave a good showing of themselves. Their crews fought bravely, and put fire to the enemy.  They are not destined to be the last losses from this battle.  The Soryu has a chance of making it home, the damage is bad, but not catastrophic.  Most of my fighter squadrons have rebased to the islands. The Kido Butai is still in some form of fighting shape however. We need to finish off those three carriers!  I want more than this.
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2017 19:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 15:19 |
|
|
A few more victories like this and we lose the war, yikes
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2017 19:35
|
|
|
MASSIVE THREAT DETECTED, SCRAMBLE THE BATTLESHIPS!
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2017 19:40
|
|
|
 That counter strike was loving BRUTAL.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2017 19:44
|
|
|
For the less informed of us, how big is this? Are we likely to see more tomorrow?
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2017 19:50
|
|
|
Well it was fun while it lasted.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2017 19:58
|
|
|
BurningStone posted:For the less informed of us, how big is this? Are we likely to see more tomorrow? This is about as big as it gets. We've as good as lost the entire Kiddo Butai (the light/slow carrier force) and the air groups of the Kido Butai (the fast, large carriers) have been absolutely devastated by the strikes on the American fleet. Tomorrow we'll see if the Kido Butai can at least finish off the three american fleet carriers. Not that it matters, in the long run; they'll get about 21 more.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2017 19:59
|
|
|
Yeah, Pyrrhic at best.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2017 20:00
|
|
|
Soryu is my lucky ship  In a vacuum, it's a reasonable outcome, but they get so many more carriers that an even trade is a loss for us.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2017 20:02
|
|
|
It was a good war while it lasted.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2017 20:05
|
|
|
BurningStone posted:For the less informed of us, how big is this? Are we likely to see more tomorrow? This was the most important naval battle since Pearl Harbor, and the entire war is hinging on this engagement. Grey's carrier capacity is basically the Kido and Kiddo Butais; he may have a few stray light carriers but this is the bulk of his force. The Japanese strategy is to concentrate the very limited carrier capacity and use it to overwhelm and destroy smaller, more dispersed Allied carrier groups and other capital ships: it's a monumental success just to have found and engaged an Allied carrier group, but he did not want to do so in an even fight. The hope was to have found one fleet carrier with maybe a couple supports: finding three modern fleet carriers instead is a disaster. Japan simply cannot afford to lose carriers; trading fleet carriers 1:1 with the allies is a loss. Grey Hunter has lost the Hiyo, he is going to lose the Kaga, and the Junyo and Soryu are both in severe peril. If he succeeds in sinking all of the Allied fleet carriers spotted (Lexington II, Yorktown II, Bunker Hill) he will probably only have traded fleet carriers 1:1: if he can also sink the remaining Allied capital ships while losing no more of his own, this becomes a marginal victory at best. Thing is though: a marginal victory at sea at this stage of the war is way better than the historical result. Japan doesn't win WWII: Grey Hunter wins the game if he can manage to lose significantly less badly than the historical result, and taking out three Allied fleet carriers at the cost of three of his own is in those terms a major victory. Sooo... yeah, this is very very big; it's a huge gain on paper if Grey can preserve either or both of the Butais while sinking that Allied carrier group, and regardless this battle has already permanently reduced Grey Hunter's ability to project air power in the Pacific from here on out. e. I think the key failure here, if there is one, is the lack of ground-based air power taking part in the engagement. They're not so far out to sea that that would have been impossible. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Dec 2, 2017 |
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2017 20:07
|
|
|
It was basically inevitable, though. Grey's been beating up the American fleet pretty bad, but meanwhile they've been busy churning out a jillion carriers. The question wasn't if we'd run face-first into a wall made of solid planes, but when.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2017 20:07
|
|
|
He still has his battleships though, and considering how weirdly they've performed given the way that naval combat works in this game he may be able to get a few good naval victories even with the loss of some of his carriers.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2017 20:10
|
|
|
Battleships without CAP are doomed when facing modern American carrier groups.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2017 20:10
|
|
|
Just so everyone knows: WitP AE is on sale for $30.00 (!) That's the lowest I've ever seen it, and I've finally decided to buy it and flail around like the idiot I am trying not to get all of my carriers sunk. http://www.matrixgames.com/products/351/details/War.in.the.Pacific.-.Admirals.Edition
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2017 20:11
|
|
|
Triggerhappypilot posted:This is about as big as it gets. We've as good as lost the entire Kiddo Butai (the light/slow carrier force) and the air groups of the Kido Butai (the fast, large carriers) have been absolutely devastated by the strikes on the American fleet. Tomorrow we'll see if the Kido Butai can at least finish off the three american fleet carriers. Yeah. For those who are just checking in, it’s important to know that this game puts a great deal of effort into a commitment to realism. Thus, barring a stunningly improbable level of success - as in, the hinomaru flying from the flagstaffs in the downtowns of Chongqing, Bombay, Sydney and Auckland by the end of 1942 - Japan is going to lose. It is fighting China, the British Empire and Commonwealth, France, the Netherlands, and the United States all at once, and all the while holding a mighty army in reserve to deter the Soviet Union. The United States alone has *ten times* Japan’s industrial output. It can come back from crushing naval and aerial defeats again and again and again, only to grow stronger each time. Japan can not. Oh, one other thing. Not only are there more Americans, by the midpoint of the war, they are better. Their ships are higher-technology and better designed. Their pilots are better. Their airframes are better. Their engines are better. Their weapons are better. Their radar is better. Their damage control is better. Their marines are better. Their tanks are better. Their artillery is better. Strategically, to win this battle, Japan would have to have sunk all three of the American fleet carriers without the loss of more than one of its own - and then, only one of the old and obsolete ones. And even in that case, Grey would have cause for concern. As said above in another post, an even fight at the end of 1943 is an incredibly good result when compared to history. It is also, fundamentally and ultimately, a defeat. David Corbett fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Dec 2, 2017 |
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2017 20:20
|
|
|
The foregoing was by no means an attempt to disrespect GH’s performance thus far. He has done, and still continues to do, vastly better than Japan managed in the actual Second World War. While Japan is doomed to failure in the end, a performance this good would probably change the course of history; the far heavier Chinese and American losses could have implications to postwar geostrategy that I am not qualified to evaluate.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2017 20:28
|
|
|
 Well, at least the ships went down fighting rather than getting shanked by a surprise attack. Speaking of shanks... Grey, you let them sink my lucky ship!  
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2017 20:41
|
|
|
Grey Hunter posted:They are not destined to be the last losses from this battle. So there is basically no way my dear little Kaga is going to live another day, right?
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2017 20:52
|
|
|
It's a burning, half-submerged lump of sub-bait that's lost most of its superstructure, with Japanese damage control. It's hosed.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2017 21:08
|
|
|
^^: At least engines are in pretty good condition so that it is not immobile burning husk.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2017 21:16
|
|
|
It's dead. With all that systems damage they can't stop the fire.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2017 21:19
|
|
|
well, the allied clocked in 117 ops-losses, some carriers must be either sunk or incapable of air-operations.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2017 22:06
|
|
|
Owwwww. Well, if you're going to go down, go down swinging I guess? (To be fair, sign of the end for Japan or not, a day where three US fleet carriers are sunk... E: The Battle of Kusaie Island, I assume? Well, it'll definitely be going in the history books.)
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2017 22:20
|
|
|
Hopefully the US's three fleet carriers go down but the ineffective second wave was a real letdown. That return strike with 50 some odd bomb hits... So far, less shocking than Milne Bay, but far more decisive.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2017 22:41
|
|
|
Our pilots fought bravely this day. I don't know what this battle will be named (Battle of Jaluit?) but it's likely to be decisive.
Grumio fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Dec 2, 2017 |
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2017 23:16
|
|
|
Only putting a few bombs and 1 torp into those enemy CVs doesn't bode well. There's a very real possibility they'll be able to put up a large strike force tomorrow.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2017 23:24
|
|
|
Log082 posted:Just so everyone knows: WitP AE is on sale for $30.00 (!) I picked it up on this sale, and am kinda staggered with how big it is. Just watching turn 1 run itself is amazing. I'm starting the smaller scenario where you invade from Ceylon, and can't figure out how to load an invasion force. Time to hit the manual. What a battle, Grey!
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2017 00:04
|
|
|
Woodchip posted:Time to hit the manual. I hope you were good at studying in school because it's, uhhh, dense
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2017 00:57
|
|
|
Holy loving poo poo
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2017 02:02
|
|
|
Was that attack intentional? Or did you not see three carriers until the attack was underway?
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2017 02:10
|
|
|
Ron Jeremy posted:Was that attack intentional? Or did you not see three carriers until the attack was underway? He knew that there were at least 2 American carriers there from the day before, and set his airgroups to naval attack. I don't believe you're allowed to choose the target of your attack, the carrier groups will choose their targets automatically based on what recon finds and some behind the scenes dicerolls. that's why a few isolated squadrons went after transports unloading at Jaluit.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2017 04:00
|
|
|
Can someone list all the carriers Grey has killed/lost so far in this entire run?
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2017 04:10
|
|
|
OW. One fleet carrier sunk, two CVE's, two more carriers that possibly go down as well unelss they're insanely lucky with damage control and get back to port in time. For.. So far three moderately damaged American CV's. But worse, two hundred plane losses. OW.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2017 04:17
|
|
|
 Nth Doctor, Mikl
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2017 04:24
|
|
|
ugh its Troika posted:Can someone list all the carriers Grey has killed/lost so far in this entire run? https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1w7-ve4QXtgiy1uf012NqsA9OF757jxPHBZtNg7jTnno/edit#gid=718053245
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2017 04:29
|
|
|
wedgekree posted:OW. One fleet carrier sunk, two CVE's, two more carriers that possibly go down as well unelss they're insanely lucky with damage control and get back to port in time. Well, 172 airframes lost, including planes destroyed on field, across the entire theater of war. The big loss there are the experienced carrier pilots: they're totally irreplaceable.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2017 04:43
|
|
|
This was the decisive battle the IJN had been betting the war on. And looks like it was decisive...for the USN. Is someone going to re-do the cover for Shattered Sword? Who was the Admiral in charge? History will not be kind to him I think.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2017 04:51
|
|
|
This turn made me sit up, audibly gasp, and cover my mouth in horror. What a game.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2017 05:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 15:19 |
|
|
David Corbett posted:The foregoing was by no means an attempt to disrespect GH’s performance thus far. He has done, and still continues to do, vastly better than Japan managed in the actual Second World War. While Japan is doomed to failure in the end, a performance this good would probably change the course of history; the far heavier Chinese and American losses could have implications to postwar geostrategy that I am not qualified to evaluate. Yeah, this day was always going to happen. I have lasted a year and a half longer than real life Japan before getting my fleet carriers sunk, and they have done a lot of damage since. But there was no realistic way the Butai's were going to make it to the end of the war.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2017 05:39
|
|